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Welcome Ricky Rubio

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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#261 » by El Hespiritu » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:38 pm

Mmmh...
Not bad at all.
Aside a pair of bland ironies, I managed myself to keep the debate into a resemblance of seriousity (it's often hard for me).
So, better I quit now before I ruin my record.

I sustain all I wrote.

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-What if they don't listen?
-I kill them and throw their bodies into the sea
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#262 » by Sugarless » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:15 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
Sugarless wrote:I'm quite surprised to see anyone think we saw the best version of Rubio with the Jazz. That's far from the truth, unless you're focused on his scoring, and even then there's not that big of a difference with his last year in Minnesota.

Rubio's played at his best when he's been handled the reigns of the team fully. That's happened twice in his NBA career:

- Second half of the season under Mitchell, once he finally let the team run in transition and play at a faster pace overall.

- Second half of Thibs' first year with the Wolves, after he was forced to admit his Wiggins' point-forward experiment was a complete failure (as expected), and around the same time LaVine tore his ACL.

That's when we saw Rubio thrive and make the most out of a group comprised of a few talented but really young players, and a bunch of scrubs. And his team was much better because of it (for instance, the 5-man unit of Rubio - Wiggins - Muhammad - Dieng - KAT had a 121.1 ORTG and 14.2 NETRTG, which was 6th and 10th in the league respectively amongst those that logged at least 150 minutes together).

He was never fully unleashed under Adelman's corner offense, and he certainly wasn't a good fit when his role was often reduced to standing on a corner while Wiggins, LaVine, Mitchell and Ingles handled the ball during his last 3 seasons.

That's what Les is talking about when he mentions building a system around him (or his skill set, if you prefer). It's not that Rubio has to be the focal point of the offense by any means, but that you have to let him run the offense, give him a certain amount of freedom, and then reap the benefits of having someone who's probably the purest PG in the league and is at the top of his position when it comes to his BBIQ, his vision and his ability to deliver the ball at the right time and on the right spot to his teammates. And the point is not that Rubio is going to be better, the point is the Suns as a whole will be better, because that's what great traditional PGs like Ricky have always done for their teams.

I can't say I'm a big fan of Monty Williams as a coach so far. His stint in NOLA wasn't anything to write home about, to be honest. But I like the fact that he's talked about learning with / from Ricky. Rubio is going to be his extension on the floor, he'll run the plays that he's told and his execution will be excellent for the most part, as usual, but if Monty gives him some freedom to operate, read the defense and trust his instincts, then I'm confident the Suns offense will shine, and Ayton and Booker will be the first to benefit from it.

PS: Quin Snyder is an excellent coach, but it's his defense around Gobert that sets him apart, not his offense, despite the amount of open shots it generates through constant (albeit slow) movement. Rubio played his role in that offense, and he did just fine, but if you look at his best moments playing for the Jazz, they came with the ball in his hands, running around the paint and creating for others. And you could see that especially during both playoffs runs, when their offense stalled and he was allowed to handle the ball more, mainly at the expense of Joe Ingles.

Oh good grief. It’s coming isn’t it? If Rubio struggles at all or doesn’t quite meet up to these lofty expectations, it will all be on Monty. Because Ricky is nothing but wonderful. Listen guys, you want to make the Phoenix fan base (at least on this forum) hate Ricky Rubio? Treat him like he can do no wrong and blame everyone else for his flaws.


Spare me the drama, please. I'm sharing my opinion on the Suns' newest member (one of them, at least) and what to expect from him as someone who's watched him his entire career. All the "Ricky is nothing but wonderful" BS is just brought up by guys who don't understand we're talking just as much about his weaknesses as we are about his strengths, and who often don't bring any other insight to the conversation. Case in point: your message.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#263 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:39 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
Sugarless wrote:I'm quite surprised to see anyone think we saw the best version of Rubio with the Jazz. That's far from the truth, unless you're focused on his scoring, and even then there's not that big of a difference with his last year in Minnesota.

Rubio's played at his best when he's been handled the reigns of the team fully. That's happened twice in his NBA career:

- Second half of the season under Mitchell, once he finally let the team run in transition and play at a faster pace overall.

- Second half of Thibs' first year with the Wolves, after he was forced to admit his Wiggins' point-forward experiment was a complete failure (as expected), and around the same time LaVine tore his ACL.

That's when we saw Rubio thrive and make the most out of a group comprised of a few talented but really young players, and a bunch of scrubs. And his team was much better because of it (for instance, the 5-man unit of Rubio - Wiggins - Muhammad - Dieng - KAT had a 121.1 ORTG and 14.2 NETRTG, which was 6th and 10th in the league respectively amongst those that logged at least 150 minutes together).

He was never fully unleashed under Adelman's corner offense, and he certainly wasn't a good fit when his role was often reduced to standing on a corner while Wiggins, LaVine, Mitchell and Ingles handled the ball during his last 3 seasons.

That's what Les is talking about when he mentions building a system around him (or his skill set, if you prefer). It's not that Rubio has to be the focal point of the offense by any means, but that you have to let him run the offense, give him a certain amount of freedom, and then reap the benefits of having someone who's probably the purest PG in the league and is at the top of his position when it comes to his BBIQ, his vision and his ability to deliver the ball at the right time and on the right spot to his teammates. And the point is not that Rubio is going to be better, the point is the Suns as a whole will be better, because that's what great traditional PGs like Ricky have always done for their teams.

I can't say I'm a big fan of Monty Williams as a coach so far. His stint in NOLA wasn't anything to write home about, to be honest. But I like the fact that he's talked about learning with / from Ricky. Rubio is going to be his extension on the floor, he'll run the plays that he's told and his execution will be excellent for the most part, as usual, but if Monty gives him some freedom to operate, read the defense and trust his instincts, then I'm confident the Suns offense will shine, and Ayton and Booker will be the first to benefit from it.

PS: Quin Snyder is an excellent coach, but it's his defense around Gobert that sets him apart, not his offense, despite the amount of open shots it generates through constant (albeit slow) movement. Rubio played his role in that offense, and he did just fine, but if you look at his best moments playing for the Jazz, they came with the ball in his hands, running around the paint and creating for others. And you could see that especially during both playoffs runs, when their offense stalled and he was allowed to handle the ball more, mainly at the expense of Joe Ingles.

Oh good grief. It’s coming isn’t it? If Rubio struggles at all or doesn’t quite meet up to these lofty expectations, it will all be on Monty. Because Ricky is nothing but wonderful. Listen guys, you want to make the Phoenix fan base (at least on this forum) hate Ricky Rubio? Treat him like he can do no wrong and blame everyone else for his flaws.


I agree with them. If you're going to sign a guard like Rubio, you need to let him direct the offense, otherwise it was pointless to sign him. His weaknesses are well known, and will be exploited if he is playing off ball. But if he has the ball in his hands most of the time, he will make everyone better, and teams won't be able to exploit his weaknesses as much.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#264 » by Bohkke » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:03 pm

For what is worth, Rubio is far from perfect and I think we Rubio band-wagoners aren’t here to turn a blind eye to his flaws. Which are the main reason almost no one in the league takes him into account: is clear to everyone that he struggles with his shot and that he’s not very athletic. He used to have a bit too many turnovers when trying fancy passes, but he’s managed to get better on that with time. Although I suspect it may be because of the constraints he's had on the different systems. We'll see if they don't go up once/if he's unleashed.

In my case, what I’ve wanted all this years of following him is to watch him succeed. He's just such a competitor. Hates losing so much he'll do anything to win. And he brings it every night. That heart and that desire you just can't teach it. And that attitude gathers crowds, inspires teammates and creates a winning culture.

I've always hoped for him to be in a team that embraces his strengths and surrounds him with talent matching those strengths. For whatever reason it still hasn't quite happened, but here we are on a new adventure just hoping he finally finds his place.

I am not here to turn the blame away from Ricky when things don't pan out, but to hope this time he's gotten in a better situation where he'll thrive and reach the near all-star level I believe he's capable of.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#265 » by bwgood77 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:13 pm

Bohkke wrote:For what is worth, Rubio is far from perfect and I think we Rubio band-wagoners aren’t here to turn a blind eye to his flaws. Which are the main reason almost no one in the league takes him into account: is clear to everyone that he struggles with his shot and that he’s not very athletic. He used to have a bit too many turnovers when trying fancy passes, but he’s managed to get better on that with time. Although I suspect it may be because of the constraints he's had on the different systems. We'll see if they don't go up once/if he's unleashed.

In my case, what I’ve wanted all this years of following him is to watch him succeed. He's just such a competitor. Hates losing so much he'll do anything to win. And he brings it every night. That heart and that desire you just can't teach it. And that attitude gathers crowds, inspires teammates and creates a winning culture.

I've always hoped for him to be in a team that embraces his strengths and surrounds him with talent matching those strengths. For whatever reason it still hasn't quite happened, but here we are on a new adventure just hoping he finally finds his place.

I am not here to turn the blame away from Ricky when things don't pan out, but to hope this time he's gotten in a better situation where he'll thrive and reach the near all-star level I believe he's capable of.


The Suns had top notch point guards for nearly 25 years, starting with KJ in 88 and ending with Nash in 2012. Fans were really not used to seeing a team without one. We had a few Marbury years in there that felt like the lesser years of that span, but he was still a 20/8 guy, though he lacked scoring efficiency.

However, in the past 7 or 8 years we have had bad PG play for the most part, with 1 good Dragic year in there and a couple ok Bledsoe years, but the latter was not high iq PG play and both of those guys were both in the "score first" mode to where they didn't really elevate the rest of our team like our previous PGs did (other than maybe Marbury) in the 25 year span.

I think Rubio will be a welcome addition. The only thing I am curious about is how much dribbling Booker will do when Rubio is on the court. He clearly likes the iso game and it can result in the rest of the team watching, and if that happens, it may throw the team and Rubio out of any flow.

But if he really does a lot of moving off ball, getting open, hitting catch and shoot 3s, etc, it will really help the team and his efficiency. And I think it will also be pretty wise to stagger Rubio and Booker to an extent that one is always on the floor. When Booker is on ball, it probably makes more sense for Ty Jerome to be the PG since he can play off ball and is a deadly shooter, and when Booker sits, if Rubio is always in there you have the ball in good hands to get everyone going.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#266 » by LesGrossman » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:33 pm

Who said he is perfect? He has massive problems with scoring, and at the same time he is a beast when he can set up the offense. If he is forced to shoot, while other guys run the offense, defenses will sag off him obviously. Who denied that? Dunno what you are reading into those posts. Was merely pointing out that he CAN be a blessing for phoenix, or we can witness the same ol discussions about his lack of shooting if thy park him in the corner again. But ultimately noone will deny that it is him, not the coach, missing those shots. And for a guard, making outside shots is imperative. Its a huge burden to compensate that and it only works if set up in a certain way.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#267 » by Saberestar » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:48 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Bohkke wrote:For what is worth, Rubio is far from perfect and I think we Rubio band-wagoners aren’t here to turn a blind eye to his flaws. Which are the main reason almost no one in the league takes him into account: is clear to everyone that he struggles with his shot and that he’s not very athletic. He used to have a bit too many turnovers when trying fancy passes, but he’s managed to get better on that with time. Although I suspect it may be because of the constraints he's had on the different systems. We'll see if they don't go up once/if he's unleashed.

In my case, what I’ve wanted all this years of following him is to watch him succeed. He's just such a competitor. Hates losing so much he'll do anything to win. And he brings it every night. That heart and that desire you just can't teach it. And that attitude gathers crowds, inspires teammates and creates a winning culture.

I've always hoped for him to be in a team that embraces his strengths and surrounds him with talent matching those strengths. For whatever reason it still hasn't quite happened, but here we are on a new adventure just hoping he finally finds his place.

I am not here to turn the blame away from Ricky when things don't pan out, but to hope this time he's gotten in a better situation where he'll thrive and reach the near all-star level I believe he's capable of.


The Suns had top notch point guards for nearly 25 years, starting with KJ in 88 and ending with Nash in 2012. Fans were really not used to seeing a team without one. We had a few Marbury years in there that felt like the lesser years of that span, but he was still a 20/8 guy, though he lacked scoring efficiency.

However, in the past 7 or 8 years we have had bad PG play for the most part, with 1 good Dragic year in there and a couple ok Bledsoe years, but the latter was not high iq PG play and both of those guys were both in the "score first" mode to where they didn't really elevate the rest of our team like our previous PGs did (other than maybe Marbury) in the 25 year span.

I think Rubio will be a welcome addition. The only thing I am curious about is how much dribbling Booker will do when Rubio is on the court. He clearly likes the iso game and it can result in the rest of the team watching, and if that happens, it may throw the team and Rubio out of any flow.

But if he really does a lot of moving off ball, getting open, hitting catch and shoot 3s, etc, it will really help the team and his efficiency. And I think it will also be pretty wise to stagger Rubio and Booker to an extent that one is always on the floor. When Booker is on ball, it probably makes more sense for Ty Jerome to be the PG since he can play off ball and is a deadly shooter, and when Booker sits, if Rubio is always in there you have the ball in good hands to get everyone going.

That is my fear too, I just can't see Booker playing too much time off the ball at this point. He loves to have the ball in his hands and create for himself and (less) for his teammates... he has that go-to-guy/alpha dog mentality.

Hopefully Monty Williams does a good job managing all of that.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#268 » by jcsunsfan » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:56 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:
Sugarless wrote:I'm quite surprised to see anyone think we saw the best version of Rubio with the Jazz. That's far from the truth, unless you're focused on his scoring, and even then there's not that big of a difference with his last year in Minnesota.

Rubio's played at his best when he's been handled the reigns of the team fully. That's happened twice in his NBA career:

- Second half of the season under Mitchell, once he finally let the team run in transition and play at a faster pace overall.

- Second half of Thibs' first year with the Wolves, after he was forced to admit his Wiggins' point-forward experiment was a complete failure (as expected), and around the same time LaVine tore his ACL.

That's when we saw Rubio thrive and make the most out of a group comprised of a few talented but really young players, and a bunch of scrubs. And his team was much better because of it (for instance, the 5-man unit of Rubio - Wiggins - Muhammad - Dieng - KAT had a 121.1 ORTG and 14.2 NETRTG, which was 6th and 10th in the league respectively amongst those that logged at least 150 minutes together).

He was never fully unleashed under Adelman's corner offense, and he certainly wasn't a good fit when his role was often reduced to standing on a corner while Wiggins, LaVine, Mitchell and Ingles handled the ball during his last 3 seasons.

That's what Les is talking about when he mentions building a system around him (or his skill set, if you prefer). It's not that Rubio has to be the focal point of the offense by any means, but that you have to let him run the offense, give him a certain amount of freedom, and then reap the benefits of having someone who's probably the purest PG in the league and is at the top of his position when it comes to his BBIQ, his vision and his ability to deliver the ball at the right time and on the right spot to his teammates. And the point is not that Rubio is going to be better, the point is the Suns as a whole will be better, because that's what great traditional PGs like Ricky have always done for their teams.

I can't say I'm a big fan of Monty Williams as a coach so far. His stint in NOLA wasn't anything to write home about, to be honest. But I like the fact that he's talked about learning with / from Ricky. Rubio is going to be his extension on the floor, he'll run the plays that he's told and his execution will be excellent for the most part, as usual, but if Monty gives him some freedom to operate, read the defense and trust his instincts, then I'm confident the Suns offense will shine, and Ayton and Booker will be the first to benefit from it.

PS: Quin Snyder is an excellent coach, but it's his defense around Gobert that sets him apart, not his offense, despite the amount of open shots it generates through constant (albeit slow) movement. Rubio played his role in that offense, and he did just fine, but if you look at his best moments playing for the Jazz, they came with the ball in his hands, running around the paint and creating for others. And you could see that especially during both playoffs runs, when their offense stalled and he was allowed to handle the ball more, mainly at the expense of Joe Ingles.

Oh good grief. It’s coming isn’t it? If Rubio struggles at all or doesn’t quite meet up to these lofty expectations, it will all be on Monty. Because Ricky is nothing but wonderful. Listen guys, you want to make the Phoenix fan base (at least on this forum) hate Ricky Rubio? Treat him like he can do no wrong and blame everyone else for his flaws.


I agree with them. If you're going to sign a guard like Rubio, you need to let him direct the offense, otherwise it was pointless to sign him. His weaknesses are well known, and will be exploited if he is playing off ball. But if he has the ball in his hands most of the time, he will make everyone better, and teams won't be able to exploit his weaknesses as much.

Oh. I agree. Let him play his game. Its just that the post seemed to blaming the coach before anything even starts.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#269 » by Sugarless » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:06 am

jcsunsfan wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:Oh good grief. It’s coming isn’t it? If Rubio struggles at all or doesn’t quite meet up to these lofty expectations, it will all be on Monty. Because Ricky is nothing but wonderful. Listen guys, you want to make the Phoenix fan base (at least on this forum) hate Ricky Rubio? Treat him like he can do no wrong and blame everyone else for his flaws.


I agree with them. If you're going to sign a guard like Rubio, you need to let him direct the offense, otherwise it was pointless to sign him. His weaknesses are well known, and will be exploited if he is playing off ball. But if he has the ball in his hands most of the time, he will make everyone better, and teams won't be able to exploit his weaknesses as much.

Oh. I agree. Let him play his game. Its just that the post seemed to blaming the coach before anything even starts.


Not sure how you got to that conclusion. I wrote a few paragraphs and I barely mentioned that I wasn't too thrilled with Monty's work with the Pelicans, but that I liked that he was talking about learning, and doing so hand in hand with Rubio, which to me means he's willing to give him some freedom at the very least. No need to be on the defensive.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#270 » by MathiasPW » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:37 pm

Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Bohkke wrote:For what is worth, Rubio is far from perfect and I think we Rubio band-wagoners aren’t here to turn a blind eye to his flaws. Which are the main reason almost no one in the league takes him into account: is clear to everyone that he struggles with his shot and that he’s not very athletic. He used to have a bit too many turnovers when trying fancy passes, but he’s managed to get better on that with time. Although I suspect it may be because of the constraints he's had on the different systems. We'll see if they don't go up once/if he's unleashed.

In my case, what I’ve wanted all this years of following him is to watch him succeed. He's just such a competitor. Hates losing so much he'll do anything to win. And he brings it every night. That heart and that desire you just can't teach it. And that attitude gathers crowds, inspires teammates and creates a winning culture.

I've always hoped for him to be in a team that embraces his strengths and surrounds him with talent matching those strengths. For whatever reason it still hasn't quite happened, but here we are on a new adventure just hoping he finally finds his place.

I am not here to turn the blame away from Ricky when things don't pan out, but to hope this time he's gotten in a better situation where he'll thrive and reach the near all-star level I believe he's capable of.


The Suns had top notch point guards for nearly 25 years, starting with KJ in 88 and ending with Nash in 2012. Fans were really not used to seeing a team without one. We had a few Marbury years in there that felt like the lesser years of that span, but he was still a 20/8 guy, though he lacked scoring efficiency.

However, in the past 7 or 8 years we have had bad PG play for the most part, with 1 good Dragic year in there and a couple ok Bledsoe years, but the latter was not high iq PG play and both of those guys were both in the "score first" mode to where they didn't really elevate the rest of our team like our previous PGs did (other than maybe Marbury) in the 25 year span.

I think Rubio will be a welcome addition. The only thing I am curious about is how much dribbling Booker will do when Rubio is on the court. He clearly likes the iso game and it can result in the rest of the team watching, and if that happens, it may throw the team and Rubio out of any flow.

But if he really does a lot of moving off ball, getting open, hitting catch and shoot 3s, etc, it will really help the team and his efficiency. And I think it will also be pretty wise to stagger Rubio and Booker to an extent that one is always on the floor. When Booker is on ball, it probably makes more sense for Ty Jerome to be the PG since he can play off ball and is a deadly shooter, and when Booker sits, if Rubio is always in there you have the ball in good hands to get everyone going.

That is my fear too, I just can't see Booker playing too much time off the ball at this point. He loves to have the ball in his hands and create for himself and (less) for his teammates... he has that go-to-guy/alpha dog mentality.

Hopefully Monty Williams does a good job managing all of that.


What makes sense, in my line of thought, is to let Rubio handle:
- all transition offense while defenses are not set.
- the start of a set play on half-court offense trying to put either Booker or Ayton on a better situation to score/assist (mismatch, recovering defender, forcing double teams to pass to open Bridges/Oubre/Saric/Cam for an uncontested shot).

Booker will have the ball on the last 7s of any possession that didn´t create a good shot and will be told to ISO and score. When he sits, that responsibility will be given to Oubre. So his (and Oubre´s) dribbling will be limited to these circumstances (or specific cases when he is trying to force a foul on someone, for example).
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#271 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:21 pm

MathiasPW wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
The Suns had top notch point guards for nearly 25 years, starting with KJ in 88 and ending with Nash in 2012. Fans were really not used to seeing a team without one. We had a few Marbury years in there that felt like the lesser years of that span, but he was still a 20/8 guy, though he lacked scoring efficiency.

However, in the past 7 or 8 years we have had bad PG play for the most part, with 1 good Dragic year in there and a couple ok Bledsoe years, but the latter was not high iq PG play and both of those guys were both in the "score first" mode to where they didn't really elevate the rest of our team like our previous PGs did (other than maybe Marbury) in the 25 year span.

I think Rubio will be a welcome addition. The only thing I am curious about is how much dribbling Booker will do when Rubio is on the court. He clearly likes the iso game and it can result in the rest of the team watching, and if that happens, it may throw the team and Rubio out of any flow.

But if he really does a lot of moving off ball, getting open, hitting catch and shoot 3s, etc, it will really help the team and his efficiency. And I think it will also be pretty wise to stagger Rubio and Booker to an extent that one is always on the floor. When Booker is on ball, it probably makes more sense for Ty Jerome to be the PG since he can play off ball and is a deadly shooter, and when Booker sits, if Rubio is always in there you have the ball in good hands to get everyone going.

That is my fear too, I just can't see Booker playing too much time off the ball at this point. He loves to have the ball in his hands and create for himself and (less) for his teammates... he has that go-to-guy/alpha dog mentality.

Hopefully Monty Williams does a good job managing all of that.


What makes sense, in my line of thought, is to let Rubio handle:
- all transition offense while defenses are not set.
- the start of a set play on half-court offense trying to put either Booker or Ayton on a better situation to score/assist (mismatch, recovering defender, forcing double teams to pass to open Bridges/Oubre/Saric/Cam for an uncontested shot).

Booker will have the ball on the last 7s of any possession that didn´t create a good shot and will be told to ISO and score. When he sits, that responsibility will be given to Oubre. So his (and Oubre´s) dribbling will be limited to these circumstances (or specific cases when he is trying to force a foul on someone, for example).


So SSOL with Booker?
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#272 » by MathiasPW » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:30 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
MathiasPW wrote:
Saberestar wrote:That is my fear too, I just can't see Booker playing too much time off the ball at this point. He loves to have the ball in his hands and create for himself and (less) for his teammates... he has that go-to-guy/alpha dog mentality.

Hopefully Monty Williams does a good job managing all of that.


What makes sense, in my line of thought, is to let Rubio handle:
- all transition offense while defenses are not set.
- the start of a set play on half-court offense trying to put either Booker or Ayton on a better situation to score/assist (mismatch, recovering defender, forcing double teams to pass to open Bridges/Oubre/Saric/Cam for an uncontested shot).

Booker will have the ball on the last 7s of any possession that didn´t create a good shot and will be told to ISO and score. When he sits, that responsibility will be given to Oubre. So his (and Oubre´s) dribbling will be limited to these circumstances (or specific cases when he is trying to force a foul on someone, for example).


So SSOL with Booker?
Isn't that what most of the league does nowadays anyway?

But it will be Rubio pushing the offense on transition. Booker will be scoring.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#273 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:37 pm

MathiasPW wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
MathiasPW wrote:
What makes sense, in my line of thought, is to let Rubio handle:
- all transition offense while defenses are not set.
- the start of a set play on half-court offense trying to put either Booker or Ayton on a better situation to score/assist (mismatch, recovering defender, forcing double teams to pass to open Bridges/Oubre/Saric/Cam for an uncontested shot).

Booker will have the ball on the last 7s of any possession that didn´t create a good shot and will be told to ISO and score. When he sits, that responsibility will be given to Oubre. So his (and Oubre´s) dribbling will be limited to these circumstances (or specific cases when he is trying to force a foul on someone, for example).


So SSOL with Booker?
Isn't that what most of the league does nowadays anyway?

But it will be Rubio pushing the offense on transition. Booker will be scoring.
Couple thoughts on this. Some good points from you guys.

Rotations will be interesting. Lots of fun possibilities.

Rubio playing with Booker should help him save some energy by not having to set up all the offense.

Booker definitely needs to still run ISO because he's good at it, will be great to finally have the ability to run some lineups out there where they have 4 shooters around him.

One of Booker or oubre should always be in the floor because you kind of need a guy you can throw the ball to late in a clock and let them try to get a bucket.

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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#274 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:57 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
MathiasPW wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
So SSOL with Booker?
Isn't that what most of the league does nowadays anyway?

But it will be Rubio pushing the offense on transition. Booker will be scoring.
Couple thoughts on this. Some good points from you guys.

Rotations will be interesting. Lots of fun possibilities.

Rubio playing with Booker should help him save some energy by not having to set up all the offense.

Booker definitely needs to still run ISO because he's good at it, will be great to finally have the ability to run some lineups out there where they have 4 shooters around him.

One of Booker or oubre should always be in the floor because you kind of need a guy you can throw the ball to late in a clock and let them try to get a bucket.

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Hopefully Booker takes a lot more shots with less than two dribbles. Numbers have shown he's far better shooter the fewer dribbles he takes. Now of course his ability to get to the rim and line is good, but I'd prefer we don't see a lot of designed iso..these days you only get away with a lot of that if you can't be doubled and really if you are like Curry or Harden.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#275 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:02 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
MathiasPW wrote:Isn't that what most of the league does nowadays anyway?

But it will be Rubio pushing the offense on transition. Booker will be scoring.
Couple thoughts on this. Some good points from you guys.

Rotations will be interesting. Lots of fun possibilities.

Rubio playing with Booker should help him save some energy by not having to set up all the offense.

Booker definitely needs to still run ISO because he's good at it, will be great to finally have the ability to run some lineups out there where they have 4 shooters around him.

One of Booker or oubre should always be in the floor because you kind of need a guy you can throw the ball to late in a clock and let them try to get a bucket.

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Hopefully Booker takes a lot more shots with less than two dribbles. Numbers have shown he's far better shooter the fewer dribbles he takes. Now of course his ability to get to the rim and line is good, but I'd prefer we don't see a lot of designed iso..these days you only get away with a lot of that if you can't be doubled and really if you are like Curry or Harden.
Yeah he doesn't need to be dribbling around the perimeter and jacking up shots like he did at times last year. I do like him iso driving to the hoop and either getting close to the rim shots or getting fouled. If you put 4 shooters around him and clear out it leaves a tough decision for the defense if they help on him or let him put his defender on his hip and go to work.

I think you can and should use him like harden at times.



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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#276 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:13 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Couple thoughts on this. Some good points from you guys.

Rotations will be interesting. Lots of fun possibilities.

Rubio playing with Booker should help him save some energy by not having to set up all the offense.

Booker definitely needs to still run ISO because he's good at it, will be great to finally have the ability to run some lineups out there where they have 4 shooters around him.

One of Booker or oubre should always be in the floor because you kind of need a guy you can throw the ball to late in a clock and let them try to get a bucket.

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Hopefully Booker takes a lot more shots with less than two dribbles. Numbers have shown he's far better shooter the fewer dribbles he takes. Now of course his ability to get to the rim and line is good, but I'd prefer we don't see a lot of designed iso..these days you only get away with a lot of that if you can't be doubled and really if you are like Curry or Harden.
Yeah he doesn't need to be dribbling around the perimeter and jacking up shots like he did at times last year. I do like him iso driving to the hoop and either getting close to the rim shots or getting fouled. If you put 4 shooters around him and clear out it leaves a tough decision for the defense if they help on him or let him put his defender on his hip and go to work.

I think you can and should use him like harden at times.

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With 4 shooters I take it you mean some sort of small ball lineup with Saric or Kaminsky at C and Jerome, Bridges and Cam Johnson or something like that?
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#277 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:15 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Hopefully Booker takes a lot more shots with less than two dribbles. Numbers have shown he's far better shooter the fewer dribbles he takes. Now of course his ability to get to the rim and line is good, but I'd prefer we don't see a lot of designed iso..these days you only get away with a lot of that if you can't be doubled and really if you are like Curry or Harden.
Yeah he doesn't need to be dribbling around the perimeter and jacking up shots like he did at times last year. I do like him iso driving to the hoop and either getting close to the rim shots or getting fouled. If you put 4 shooters around him and clear out it leaves a tough decision for the defense if they help on him or let him put his defender on his hip and go to work.

I think you can and should use him like harden at times.

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With 4 shooters I take it you mean some sort of small ball lineup with Saric or Kaminsky at C and Jerome, Bridges and Cam Johnson or something like that?
Absolutely

The other lineup I think will be fun will be Rubio and Ayton with 3 of Cam, Booker, Bridges or Saric. Clear out and run P&R over and over.

Hell maybe even add Oubre to that list because when he's open he's a pretty good 3pt shooter. It was mentioned on one of the Suns pod that part of the reason Oubres 3pt % is lower is because he's prone to shoot some idiotic 3s that he has no business attempting.

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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#278 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:33 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Yeah he doesn't need to be dribbling around the perimeter and jacking up shots like he did at times last year. I do like him iso driving to the hoop and either getting close to the rim shots or getting fouled. If you put 4 shooters around him and clear out it leaves a tough decision for the defense if they help on him or let him put his defender on his hip and go to work.

I think you can and should use him like harden at times.

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With 4 shooters I take it you mean some sort of small ball lineup with Saric or Kaminsky at C and Jerome, Bridges and Cam Johnson or something like that?
Absolutely

The other lineup I think will be fun will be Rubio and Ayton with 3 of Cam, Booker, Bridges or Saric. Clear out and run P&R over and over.

Hell maybe even add Oubre to that list because when he's open he's a pretty good 3pt shooter. It was mentioned on one of the Suns pod that part of the reason Oubres 3pt % is lower is because he's prone to shoot some idiotic 3s that he has no business attempting.

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Sure, with Oubre you just have to hope his iq gets better. On both sides.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#279 » by Frank Lee » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:38 pm

bwgood77 wrote:.......
The Suns had top notch point guards for nearly 25 years, starting with KJ in 88 and ending with Nash in 2012. Fans were really not used to seeing a team without one. We had a few Marbury years in there that felt like the lesser years of that span, but he was still a 20/8 guy, though he lacked scoring efficiency.

......


Gail Goodrich, Charlie Scott, Paul Westphal, Ricky Sobers, Don Buse, Dennis Johnson, Kyle Macy, Jeff Hornacek, and Danny Ainge say hi :wave:

How about since inception? All of those guys better than what we've had.
Put it all on Jerry C... he was a hall of famer Illini PG in the early 60s. it was his/our stamp/signature... like not having a true center 8-)
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#280 » by MathiasPW » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:21 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Yeah he doesn't need to be dribbling around the perimeter and jacking up shots like he did at times last year. I do like him iso driving to the hoop and either getting close to the rim shots or getting fouled. If you put 4 shooters around him and clear out it leaves a tough decision for the defense if they help on him or let him put his defender on his hip and go to work.

I think you can and should use him like harden at times.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


With 4 shooters I take it you mean some sort of small ball lineup with Saric or Kaminsky at C and Jerome, Bridges and Cam Johnson or something like that?
Absolutely

The other lineup I think will be fun will be Rubio and Ayton with 3 of Cam, Booker, Bridges or Saric. Clear out and run P&R over and over.

Hell maybe even add Oubre to that list because when he's open he's a pretty good 3pt shooter. It was mentioned on one of the Suns pod that part of the reason Oubres 3pt % is lower is because he's prone to shoot some idiotic 3s that he has no business attempting.

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This lineup you described with Rubio and Ayton will be our starting lineup and is why I considered Rubio should lead all transition offense and most of the setups, as well.
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