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Welcome Ricky Rubio

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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#301 » by Fo-Real » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:59 pm

bigfoot wrote:


I hate his face!! :lol: Im trying Ringo, I'm trying real hard to be the Sheppard!! :lol:
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#302 » by Fo-Real » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:02 pm

I was against him even though I know he is a good guard. Im trying to change my view and tone on him but like I said before its gonna take me some adjustment!! :lol:
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#303 » by Frank Lee » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:26 pm

Is this the most talented team, top to bottom, Rubio has played on ?
What ? Me Worry ?
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#304 » by Saberestar » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:49 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Is this the most talented team, top to bottom, Rubio has played on ?

Quick answer... no.

The Jazz from the last couple of years were a really talented team.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#305 » by Frank Lee » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:01 pm

Pair it up

Gobert/Favors/Engles/Crowder/Mitchell/Korver/ ?
Ayton/Baynes/Saric/Bridges/Booker/Oubre/TJohnson

Would you trade Ayton for Gobert ? Booker for Mitchell ? TJohnson or Oubre for Korver ? Bridges for Engles ?


I dont think its as clear cut as you think.
What ? Me Worry ?
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#306 » by Saberestar » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:25 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Pair it up

Gobert/Favors/Engles/Crowder/Mitchell/Korver/ ?
Ayton/Baynes/Saric/Bridges/Booker/Oubre/TJohnson

Would you trade Ayton for Gobert ? Booker for Mitchell ? TJohnson or Oubre for Korver ? Bridges for Engles ?


I dont think its as clear cut as you think.

It is pretty obvious to me. I think you are talking more about potential.

That Jazz team went to the second round of the playoffs, we are just trying to get (hopefully) to 30 wins.

Ayton or Gobert? You are talking about POTENTIAL again. And that's why I would not trade Ayton for Gobert, because I think Ayton can be great in the next few years... but Gobert is now the better player. It is not even close. Gobert is the best defender in the NBA and he helps baldly to win games. He has shown already that is a talented player.

Bridges or Ingles? Come on... Ingles is way better than Bridges, but AGAIN we expect that Bridges improves his game in the next couple of years and he can probably be as good as Ingles or even better. But we don't know. What we know for sure is that Ingles is an excellent all around SF.

Booker or Mitchell? It is so close. I like Booker more... but I am not objective, probably Mitchell is the best one. Mitchell is for sure a better defender...way better. And he is an amazing talent. But overall it's close.

And all the role players from the Jazz were good players. I think that team is more talented that what we have, but everything can change IF our youngsters improve (Oubre and Diallo included)a lot or show that they are very good (we don't know what we have in Cam, Jerome and Lecque).
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#307 » by El Hespiritu » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:00 pm

Mmmh...

I don't think talent has anything to do with competitiveness, potential or developement.
In my opinion talent is just like size or wingspan: a natural condition.

Some people are born with tons of it and some other people with little to none of it.

Maybe the most talented player in the world is an indonesian grandma from a rural village who doesn't even know what basketall is.

My particular answer to Frank's question:
In the past two years Utah was more talented than Phoenix is now. I'm not sure if still it is after all the turmoil they did in the roster.

It was a close cut tho.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#308 » by Fo-Real » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:44 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Pair it up

Gobert/Favors/Engles/Crowder/Mitchell/Korver/ ?
Ayton/Baynes/Saric/Bridges/Booker/Oubre/TJohnson

Would you trade Ayton for Gobert ? Booker for Mitchell ? TJohnson or Oubre for Korver ? Bridges for Engles ?


I dont think its as clear cut as you think.


He played with Kevin Love at some point didnt he?
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#309 » by ensiferum » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:51 pm

As some users have said before me, it's quite simple. Rubio has a set of skills, if you use him in a wrong way, he will kinda suck. He needs to handle the ball and run the offense, he will find someone open for a good shot 90% of the times. And that's it. You make him stand in the corner waiting for a 3, and thats a waste of a signing because he starts being useless.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#310 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:04 am

ensiferum wrote:As some users have said before me, it's quite simple. Rubio has a set of skills, if you use him in a wrong way, he will kinda suck. He needs to handle the ball and run the offense, he will find someone open for a good shot 90% of the times. And that's it. You make him stand in the corner waiting for a 3, and thats a waste of a signing because he starts being useless.


Yeah, I like watching Rubio with the ball and he's good on D, but my biggest fear of our offseason moves is that him and Booker don't co-exist well. I'm not saying I expect it to happen, but that is a fear. I kind of accepted that Booker loved to play on ball a lot and that he should play on ball a bit because he can be good at it, and though pairing him with another guard who was good on or off ball (like Brogdon) would work best.

Booker is probably even a bigger weapon off ball though and allowing Rubio to handle would allow him and especially the rest of the team to flourish more because they know they'd get the ball when they are open. Booker's passing improved but one problem with him on ball is that he will get trapped and won't be able to see the entire floor at times. If he handles it a lot with Rubio on the floor I'm sure we are to see this happen quite a bit as Rubio's defender will help on Booker.

I just hope Booker is fine off ball most all the time when Rubio is on the floor...the worst scenario would be Booker not liking playing with him for some reason because he didn't give him the ball enough. And if he just gives Booker the ball when he crosses half court, Rubio won't be too useful and probably won't enjoy it too much either.

I have my fingers crossed the jell perfectly.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#311 » by Crives » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:07 am

bwgood77 wrote:
ensiferum wrote:As some users have said before me, it's quite simple. Rubio has a set of skills, if you use him in a wrong way, he will kinda suck. He needs to handle the ball and run the offense, he will find someone open for a good shot 90% of the times. And that's it. You make him stand in the corner waiting for a 3, and thats a waste of a signing because he starts being useless.


Yeah, I like watching Rubio with the ball and he's good on D, but my biggest fear of our offseason moves is that him and Booker don't co-exist well. I'm not saying I expect it to happen, but that is a fear. I kind of accepted that Booker loved to play on ball a lot and that he should play on ball a bit because he can be good at it, and though pairing him with another guard who was good on or off ball (like Brogdon) would work best.

Booker is probably even a bigger weapon off ball though and allowing Rubio to handle would allow him and especially the rest of the team to flourish more because they know they'd get the ball when they are open. Booker's passing improved but one problem with him on ball is that he will get trapped and won't be able to see the entire floor at times. If he handles it a lot with Rubio on the floor I'm sure we are to see this happen quite a bit as Rubio's defender will help on Booker.

I just hope Booker is fine off ball most all the time when Rubio is on the floor...the worst scenario would be Booker not liking playing with him for some reason because he didn't give him the ball enough. And if he just gives Booker the ball when he crosses half court, Rubio won't be too useful and probably won't enjoy it too much either.

I have my fingers crossed the jell perfectly.


I really hope we see a good amount of staggered minutes between these two.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#312 » by Frank Lee » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:30 am

Saberestar wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Is this the most talented team, top to bottom, Rubio has played on ?

Quick answer... no.

The Jazz from the last couple of years were a really talented team.


Ok
Let me rephrase that
Is this the best offensive talent around Rubio?
What ? Me Worry ?
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#313 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:04 am

Crives wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
ensiferum wrote:As some users have said before me, it's quite simple. Rubio has a set of skills, if you use him in a wrong way, he will kinda suck. He needs to handle the ball and run the offense, he will find someone open for a good shot 90% of the times. And that's it. You make him stand in the corner waiting for a 3, and thats a waste of a signing because he starts being useless.


Yeah, I like watching Rubio with the ball and he's good on D, but my biggest fear of our offseason moves is that him and Booker don't co-exist well. I'm not saying I expect it to happen, but that is a fear. I kind of accepted that Booker loved to play on ball a lot and that he should play on ball a bit because he can be good at it, and though pairing him with another guard who was good on or off ball (like Brogdon) would work best.

Booker is probably even a bigger weapon off ball though and allowing Rubio to handle would allow him and especially the rest of the team to flourish more because they know they'd get the ball when they are open. Booker's passing improved but one problem with him on ball is that he will get trapped and won't be able to see the entire floor at times. If he handles it a lot with Rubio on the floor I'm sure we are to see this happen quite a bit as Rubio's defender will help on Booker.

I just hope Booker is fine off ball most all the time when Rubio is on the floor...the worst scenario would be Booker not liking playing with him for some reason because he didn't give him the ball enough. And if he just gives Booker the ball when he crosses half court, Rubio won't be too useful and probably won't enjoy it too much either.

I have my fingers crossed the jell perfectly.


I really hope we see a good amount of staggered minutes between these two.


Yes, I think they should always have one on the floor so they should be able to play maybe 14 minutes or so each without the other...maybe 20 minutes together or something like that.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#314 » by Crives » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:12 am

Frank Lee wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Is this the most talented team, top to bottom, Rubio has played on ?

Quick answer... no.

The Jazz from the last couple of years were a really talented team.


Ok
Let me rephrase that
Is this the best offensive talent around Rubio?


I think Jazz only had two shooters with Rubio while we will have at least 3...4 if Ayton 3 develops.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#315 » by Saberestar » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:54 am

Frank Lee wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Is this the most talented team, top to bottom, Rubio has played on ?

Quick answer... no.

The Jazz from the last couple of years were a really talented team.


Ok
Let me rephrase that
Is this the best offensive talent around Rubio?

I do not think so, but it is closer because Booker, Saric and Ayton are better players on offense than defenders.

But the Jazz had plenty of talented offensive players. They played a lot with three really good shooters around Rubio (Mitchell, Ingles and Crowder at PF) and they had O'Neal/Korver/Sefolosha who could help and gave them great depth.

And we have players on our roster that are not "talented" on offense. Bridges, Carter, Baynes and Diallo are really limited on offense, they stand out more for his defense.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#316 » by Sugarless » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:11 am

Saberestar wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:
Saberestar wrote:Quick answer... no.

The Jazz from the last couple of years were a really talented team.


Ok
Let me rephrase that
Is this the best offensive talent around Rubio?

I do not think so, but it is closer because Booker, Saric and Ayton are better players on offense than defenders.

But the Jazz had plenty of talented offensive players. They played a lot with three really good shooters around Rubio (Mitchell, Ingles and Crowder at PF) and they had O'Neal/Korver/Sefolosha who could help and gave them great depth.

And we have players on our roster that are not "talented" on offense. Bridges, Carter, Baynes and Diallo are really limited on offense, they stand out more for his defense.


I agree. The Suns are more talented in terms of scoring, but offense goes way beyond that. The Jazz were more talented in terms of passing, moving without the ball and executing. They were great at it and they will continue to be under that coaching team. Hopefully the Suns improve in those aspects with new leadership on the court and on the sidelines.

Defensively of course they're worlds apart.

This current Suns team reminds more of the Timberwolves with KAT, LaVine, Wiggins, Dieng, Muhammad and later Kris Dunn. A lot of young talent and promise, with a 20yo franchise center, plenty of scoring at the 2, some young role players at the forward spots and even a promising back-up PG, though in a completely different mold. Different players of course, and I hope some of the Suns guys end up better than Wiggins, Muhammad or Dunn (I also like them better and think they're a more natural fit), but overall it's a similar vibe: a young team that couldn't reach 20 wins the previous season (in the Wolves' case, due in large part to Rubio's injury, as he barely played that year and when he did he was clearly not 100%) and one that should thrive in transition and try to find its identity in an extremely tough western conference, only with a better bench and a more established first option in Booker.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#317 » by jcsunsfan » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:29 pm

Crives wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:
Saberestar wrote:Quick answer... no.

The Jazz from the last couple of years were a really talented team.


Ok
Let me rephrase that
Is this the best offensive talent around Rubio?


I think Jazz only had two shooters with Rubio while we will have at least 3...4 if Ayton 3 develops.

Really, we do not know what we will have around Rubio, because the players we have, have never had a competent pg to run the team. Rubio is probably more of a known quantity than Booker, Ayton, Mikal, and maybe even Oubre.
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#318 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:33 am

Frank Lee wrote:Pair it up

Gobert/Favors/Engles/Crowder/Mitchell/Korver/ ?
Ayton/Baynes/Saric/Bridges/Booker/Oubre/TJohnson

Would you trade Ayton for Gobert ? Booker for Mitchell ? TJohnson or Oubre for Korver ? Bridges for Engles ?


I dont think its as clear cut as you think.

Until the Suns even make playoffs, let alone make it to the 2nd round, I don't think I can buy that the Suns are more talented.

Sure you can argue from a paper talent perspective but paper talent is just that; on paper
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#319 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:37 am

bwgood77 wrote:
ensiferum wrote:As some users have said before me, it's quite simple. Rubio has a set of skills, if you use him in a wrong way, he will kinda suck. He needs to handle the ball and run the offense, he will find someone open for a good shot 90% of the times. And that's it. You make him stand in the corner waiting for a 3, and thats a waste of a signing because he starts being useless.


Yeah, I like watching Rubio with the ball and he's good on D, but my biggest fear of our offseason moves is that him and Booker don't co-exist well. I'm not saying I expect it to happen, but that is a fear. I kind of accepted that Booker loved to play on ball a lot and that he should play on ball a bit because he can be good at it, and though pairing him with another guard who was good on or off ball (like Brogdon) would work best.

Booker is probably even a bigger weapon off ball though and allowing Rubio to handle would allow him and especially the rest of the team to flourish more because they know they'd get the ball when they are open. Booker's passing improved but one problem with him on ball is that he will get trapped and won't be able to see the entire floor at times. If he handles it a lot with Rubio on the floor I'm sure we are to see this happen quite a bit as Rubio's defender will help on Booker.

I just hope Booker is fine off ball most all the time when Rubio is on the floor...the worst scenario would be Booker not liking playing with him for some reason because he didn't give him the ball enough. And if he just gives Booker the ball when he crosses half court, Rubio won't be too useful and probably won't enjoy it too much either.

I have my fingers crossed the jell perfectly.

100%

How well they play together will depend solely (imo) on how ready Booker is to defer and play more off ball. If he doesn't trust or believe in Rubio as a primary playmaker then there won't be much change Point Book. If he is more open to it and we do see him off ball then we won't need to rely on Rubio being an above average 3PT shooter as much because he'll be on-ball more often.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Welcome Ricky Rubio 

Post#320 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:40 am

Sugarless wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:
Ok
Let me rephrase that
Is this the best offensive talent around Rubio?

I do not think so, but it is closer because Booker, Saric and Ayton are better players on offense than defenders.

But the Jazz had plenty of talented offensive players. They played a lot with three really good shooters around Rubio (Mitchell, Ingles and Crowder at PF) and they had O'Neal/Korver/Sefolosha who could help and gave them great depth.

And we have players on our roster that are not "talented" on offense. Bridges, Carter, Baynes and Diallo are really limited on offense, they stand out more for his defense.


I agree. The Suns are more talented in terms of scoring, but offense goes way beyond that. The Jazz were more talented in terms of passing, moving without the ball and executing. They were great at it and they will continue to be under that coaching team. Hopefully the Suns improve in those aspects with new leadership on the court and on the sidelines.

Defensively of course they're worlds apart.

This current Suns team reminds more of the Timberwolves with KAT, LaVine, Wiggins, Dieng, Muhammad and later Kris Dunn. A lot of young talent and promise, with a 20yo franchise center, plenty of scoring at the 2, some young role players at the forward spots and even a promising back-up PG, though in a completely different mold. Different players of course, and I hope some of the Suns guys end up better than Wiggins, Muhammad or Dunn (I also like them better and think they're a more natural fit), but overall it's a similar vibe: a young team that couldn't reach 20 wins the previous season (in the Wolves' case, due in large part to Rubio's injury, as he barely played that year and when he did he was clearly not 100%) and one that should thrive in transition and try to find its identity in an extremely tough western conference, only with a better bench and a more established first option in Booker.

Great comp

That Wolves team was teaming with potential and talent but getting the most out of your talent and contributing is talent in itself. That team didn't go anywhere far until they added a bonafide all-NBA level player in Jimmy to take the reigns. Perhaps Booker can be that guy for us in the coming years but we really need that one guy who just is both talented enough and wants it enough to take this team to the next level. It will have to be Booker, not Rubio
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though

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