ImageImageImage

Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's)

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22, Kerrsed

User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 66,144
And1: 37,789
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#101 » by bwgood77 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:10 pm

King4Day wrote:Reasonable deals for guys like Carter and Saric can be moved if we need space in the future. I wouldn't be afraid of 2 year deals, or 3 years with a team option on the 3rd.


I guess it depends on definition of reasonable for Carter. Cap space can be very hard to clear if a player and the money isn't wanted. Josh Jackson just had like 1 year and $5 million and cost Melton. And you could argue more teams would have been interested in possible Jackson upside than what Carter gives you. Most teams have 2-3 PGs who are Carter level or better.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 66,144
And1: 37,789
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#102 » by bwgood77 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:14 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
I would have agreed with you just a few games ago. But the chemistry he's quickly developed with Payne in the backcourt, and the 3 point shooting, combined with his commitment to the team and his teammates... I just think you gotta see what the market will give him and pledge to match it with an extra year if he wants it. If he can't get a decent offer, I'm happy to give him $3-4 million per over two. He's worth at least that much.


I guess it all just comes down to whether or not we care about cap space next summer or if we are happy with our current roster with no additions outside of rookies.

It's tough to know how much stock to put into these games. We look great but it's hard to know how serious a lot of these teams are even taking these games with so many teams locked into spots. I obviously think the Mavs and Clips took their games seriously against us. Miami too, but obviously they were missing their main guy, another starter and another key player.

I also wonder if the way Carter and Payne are playing are sustainable. Obviously Payne is worth keeping due to his 1 year cheap option. Carter is a guy we have seen all year so we have more to go on. I don't like to put too much stock in a few games but I did like the way he was shooting down the stretch even before this.

It's tough as key as these bench units have been. I really don't see a team offering him a multi year deal at like $4+ million a year though. I could see a team maybe giving him part of their MLE on a 1 year deal, maybe even slightly bloated, so they'd have the cap space back. That is something I'd do/match.


I think you can put a lot of Jevon's struggles this season on being miscast as a PG and us not having any other stable guards to bring off the bench to elevate the offense. As good as Jevon is, he and Rubio are not ideal partners in the backcourt. And Booker's looked a lot better handling the ball in the bubble, which I put in part to Devin and Ayton's improvement at running the P&R and a lot on Cam and Bridges providing that additional, necessary spacing.

Jevon's a 3&D shooting guard trapped in a PG's body. It just doesn't seem like we lack for anything in the backcourt right now with Booker/Rubio/Payne/Carter.


I agree but we are still looking at an awfully small sample size of that combination playing against teams mostly already solidified into playoff slots, and many teams resting multiple players (or having injuries to key players).

That being said, I like what Carter brings. Qwigglez (I think) earlier mentioned that he didn't expect him back due to comments he had made regarding Booker.
WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 14,746
And1: 10,151
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#103 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:32 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
I would have agreed with you just a few games ago. But the chemistry he's quickly developed with Payne in the backcourt, and the 3 point shooting, combined with his commitment to the team and his teammates... I just think you gotta see what the market will give him and pledge to match it with an extra year if he wants it. If he can't get a decent offer, I'm happy to give him $3-4 million per over two. He's worth at least that much.


I guess it all just comes down to whether or not we care about cap space next summer or if we are happy with our current roster with no additions outside of rookies.

It's tough to know how much stock to put into these games. We look great but it's hard to know how serious a lot of these teams are even taking these games with so many teams locked into spots. I obviously think the Mavs and Clips took their games seriously against us. Miami too, but obviously they were missing their main guy, another starter and another key player.

I also wonder if the way Carter and Payne are playing are sustainable. Obviously Payne is worth keeping due to his 1 year cheap option. Carter is a guy we have seen all year so we have more to go on. I don't like to put too much stock in a few games but I did like the way he was shooting down the stretch even before this.

It's tough as key as these bench units have been. I really don't see a team offering him a multi year deal at like $4+ million a year though. I could see a team maybe giving him part of their MLE on a 1 year deal, maybe even slightly bloated, so they'd have the cap space back. That is something I'd do/match.


I think you can put a lot of Jevon's struggles this season on being miscast as a PG and us not having any other stable guards to bring off the bench to elevate the offense. As good as Jevon is, he and Rubio are not ideal partners in the backcourt. And Booker's looked a lot better handling the ball in the bubble, which I put in part to Devin and Ayton's improvement at running the P&R and a lot on Cam and Bridges providing that additional, necessary spacing.

Jevon's a 3&D shooting guard trapped in a PG's body. It just doesn't seem like we lack for anything in the backcourt right now with Booker/Rubio/Payne/Carter.
Yeah Carter has played better since the suns stopped playing him at PG. They pretty much exclusively use him as a 3 and D wing now. That's funny at his size but it's working.

Carter to me is the perfect kind of guy to bring back if they draft a combo guard at 10 because he's the type you want to challenge a young guy to beat out for playing time. Basically if you can't beat Carter and Payne for minutes you're not ready to contribute to a team trying to win. Now say they go and spend money on a vet combo guard who you know is going to be a big part of the rotation then you might let Carter walk if you can't bring back at the minimum.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
User avatar
King4Day
Head Coach
Posts: 6,893
And1: 4,170
Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Location: Pandora
         

Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#104 » by King4Day » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:26 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
King4Day wrote:Reasonable deals for guys like Carter and Saric can be moved if we need space in the future. I wouldn't be afraid of 2 year deals, or 3 years with a team option on the 3rd.


I guess it depends on definition of reasonable for Carter. Cap space can be very hard to clear if a player and the money isn't wanted. Josh Jackson just had like 1 year and $5 million and cost Melton. And you could argue more teams would have been interested in possible Jackson upside than what Carter gives you. Most teams have 2-3 PGs who are Carter level or better.


If he's an expiring, and we know Giannis would be willing to come, for example, I think we could find a team to take a 1 year 3-4 mil in salary along with a future first to take him off our hands. At that point, picks aren't as important.
Formerly DarkHawk
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 66,144
And1: 37,789
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#105 » by bwgood77 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:17 am

King4Day wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
King4Day wrote:Reasonable deals for guys like Carter and Saric can be moved if we need space in the future. I wouldn't be afraid of 2 year deals, or 3 years with a team option on the 3rd.


I guess it depends on definition of reasonable for Carter. Cap space can be very hard to clear if a player and the money isn't wanted. Josh Jackson just had like 1 year and $5 million and cost Melton. And you could argue more teams would have been interested in possible Jackson upside than what Carter gives you. Most teams have 2-3 PGs who are Carter level or better.


If he's an expiring, and we know Giannis would be willing to come, for example, I think we could find a team to take a 1 year 3-4 mil in salary along with a future first to take him off our hands. At that point, picks aren't as important.


Oh, if "easy to move" includes trading a first to move him, yes, a $4-5 million dollar 1 year contract, would be easy. I wasn't thinking of it like that.
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 15,942
And1: 8,651
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#106 » by Qwigglez » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:13 am

bwgood77 wrote:
I agree but we are still looking at an awfully small sample size of that combination playing against teams mostly already solidified into playoff slots, and many teams resting multiple players (or having injuries to key players).

That being said, I like what Carter brings. Qwigglez (I think) earlier mentioned that he didn't expect him back due to comments he had made regarding Booker.

Not Jevon himself, but someone within his circle. They kept pointing out how Booker is playing the dating scene with a Kardashian, how Booker isn't working on his game, how Booker only cares about getting his stats and not the team, etc. I felt if someone that close to Jevon Carter is publicly saying stuff that he likely wouldn't be on the team after his contract ends. Even in Jevon Carter's breakout game, his quote afterwards seemed to be a subtle jab at Booker when he said something along the lines of hating players that don't try hard on defense and only care about scoring and what not.

I actually like Carter and hope he comes back. I feel he just needs to break out more and trust his skills, he looks hesitant a lot of times out there on offense.

Also want to point out, I don't see Jevon Carter getting some huge offer from a team. I think he maybe gets $2.5 million one year deal somewhere, and might even take a 2 year deal + 1 team option of something in the range of $5.5 million total. I hope we keep him for something like that, but I guess it only takes one team to offer him something more and I doubt we match.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 66,144
And1: 37,789
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#107 » by bwgood77 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:06 pm

Qwigglez wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I agree but we are still looking at an awfully small sample size of that combination playing against teams mostly already solidified into playoff slots, and many teams resting multiple players (or having injuries to key players).

That being said, I like what Carter brings. Qwigglez (I think) earlier mentioned that he didn't expect him back due to comments he had made regarding Booker.

Not Jevon himself, but someone within his circle. They kept pointing out how Booker is playing the dating scene with a Kardashian, how Booker isn't working on his game, how Booker only cares about getting his stats and not the team, etc. I felt if someone that close to Jevon Carter is publicly saying stuff that he likely wouldn't be on the team after his contract ends. Even in Jevon Carter's breakout game, his quote afterwards seemed to be a subtle jab at Booker when he said something along the lines of hating players that don't try hard on defense and only care about scoring and what not.

I actually like Carter and hope he comes back. I feel he just needs to break out more and trust his skills, he looks hesitant a lot of times out there on offense.

Also want to point out, I don't see Jevon Carter getting some huge offer from a team. I think he maybe gets $2.5 million one year deal somewhere, and might even take a 2 year deal + 1 team option of something in the range of $5.5 million total. I hope we keep him for something like that, but I guess it only takes one team to offer him something more and I doubt we match.


I really can't see a team offering him guaranteed money at more than a couple million in year two. But a team could give him a bit more for one year...part of their MLE and possibly add the team option for another...we could do that. Or maybe more like closer to a minimum multi year deal.

I guess it's possible if a team that is working well over the cap but under the tax really likes him, and think he fits a need, they could give him more to ensure they get him, because it would not impact their cap space for future years. Seems kind of doubtful though.
darmani
Rookie
Posts: 1,053
And1: 1,222
Joined: Dec 20, 2018
 

Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#108 » by darmani » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:42 pm

Read on Twitter
"Can’t talk basketball with everybody" - Devin Booker
Saberestar
RealGM
Posts: 12,779
And1: 8,406
Joined: May 21, 2010

Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#110 » by Saberestar » Sat Sep 5, 2020 10:45 pm

Read on Twitter
WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 14,746
And1: 10,151
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#111 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sun Sep 6, 2020 1:01 am

After watching these playoffs I'm more interested in bringing Carter back. When the competition gets intense you need some dogs like that on your team. He feels like the type that won't wilt under pressure.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
RunDogGun
RealGM
Posts: 13,101
And1: 2,368
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Location: Beyond the Sun
       

Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#112 » by RunDogGun » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:08 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:After watching these playoffs I'm more interested in bringing Carter back. When the competition gets intense you need some dogs like that on your team. He feels like the type that won't wilt under pressure.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I completely agree. Every team could use a bench player, who can disrupt opposing guards. Having that player be able to shoot the three is a bonus. I hope we keep him, he has already bought into the system.

Return to Phoenix Suns