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Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's)

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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#81 » by darmani » Sun Aug 9, 2020 2:41 pm

Jevon is so much batter as a SG than a PG.
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#83 » by Saberestar » Sun Aug 9, 2020 3:54 pm

darmani wrote:Jevon is so much batter as a SG than a PG.

Yeah, and that's why it is pretty important to pair him with a great shot creator with decent/good size.

For the bubble it's OK to have a rotation of Rubio, Book, Payne and Carter in the backcourt, but we need another PG/SG for next season. A long regular season will demand more depth.

Can we use the bi-annual exception to sign Carter? I have read that we can use it going over the cap to give a player more than the minimum (at most $7.4M / 2 years). We can use a part of that to offer him something like $6M/2 years, which I think would be fair.
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#84 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sun Aug 9, 2020 4:47 pm

Saberestar wrote:
darmani wrote:Jevon is so much batter as a SG than a PG.

Yeah, and that's why it is pretty important to pair him with a great shot creator with decent/good size.

For the bubble it's OK to have a rotation of Rubio, Book, Payne and Carter in the backcourt, but we need another PG/SG for next season. A long regular season will demand more depth.

Can we use the bi-annual exception to sign Carter? I have read that we can use it going over the cap to give a player more than the minimum (at most $7.4M / 2 years). We can use a part of that to offer him something like $6M/2 years, which I think would be fair.
Carter will be a restricted FA so they won't need to use any exemption and will have matching rights.

I wouldn't pay him a ton but if he gets 9th 10th man money (like a few mil per year) I'd bring him back.

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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#85 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:38 am

Might be overly dramatic but I view Carter as one of those guys who if we don't retain, then it says a lot about the culture and the kind of team we're putting together. I know I put Carter and Tucker in the same sentence often but I strongly believe the couple of seasons Tucker had with Booker and TJ were instrumental in instilling in those kids the mental and physical toughness that they need to compete at the highest level (as we're seeing now). I think Carter brings a lot of that same vibe and to me, he really sets that tone for us defensively the moment he steps on the court. I'm not saying he's going to teach toughness or mental strength like Tucker did because Tucker was a veteran with experience but he brings the same mentality which is infectious and something we sorely need.

If we don't retain then it tells me that this front office does not recognise the impact a guy like Carter has on a team.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#86 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:49 am

lilfishi22 wrote:Might be overly dramatic but I view Carter as one of those guys who if we don't retain, then it says a lot about the culture and the kind of team we're putting together. I know I put Carter and Tucker in the same sentence often but I strongly believe the couple of seasons Tucker had with Booker and TJ were instrumental in instilling in those kids the mental and physical toughness that they need to compete at the highest level (as we're seeing now). I think Carter brings a lot of that same vibe and to me, he really sets that tone for us defensively the moment he steps on the court. I'm not saying he's going to teach toughness or mental strength like Tucker did because Tucker was a veteran with experience but he brings the same mentality which is infectious and something we sorely need.

If we don't retain then it tells me that this front office does not recognise the impact a guy like Carter has on a team.
There's plenty of legit questions about James Jones asset management as a GM but I'd say his dedication to culture has been pretty consistent. Look at his moves:
Chandler doesn't want to be here, released
Ariza is a loafing turd and he flips him for Oubre who's a good locker room guy, Rivers part of that trade doesn't want to be here and he's released.
Trade for good locker room guy in Johnson
Then this summer gets Baynes, Rubio, Carter who are all good culture types.
Drafts Cam who my impression so far is he's a professional and hard worker.

I agree having a guy like Carter around is nice. You know he's going to absolutely bring it in practice everyday and that's a good influence.

I do have a breaking point in what I'd pay Carter though simply because I think he's limited and kind of a fringe rotation guy. But honestly I might be selling him short, if he's really a 40% 3 pt shooter then he might be more than I'm giving him credit for and with his hard he works it's possible that shot stays real.

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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#87 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:27 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Might be overly dramatic but I view Carter as one of those guys who if we don't retain, then it says a lot about the culture and the kind of team we're putting together. I know I put Carter and Tucker in the same sentence often but I strongly believe the couple of seasons Tucker had with Booker and TJ were instrumental in instilling in those kids the mental and physical toughness that they need to compete at the highest level (as we're seeing now). I think Carter brings a lot of that same vibe and to me, he really sets that tone for us defensively the moment he steps on the court. I'm not saying he's going to teach toughness or mental strength like Tucker did because Tucker was a veteran with experience but he brings the same mentality which is infectious and something we sorely need.

If we don't retain then it tells me that this front office does not recognise the impact a guy like Carter has on a team.
There's plenty of legit questions about James Jones asset management as a GM but I'd say his dedication to culture has been pretty consistent. Look at his moves:
Chandler doesn't want to be here, released
Ariza is a loafing turd and he flips him for Oubre who's a good locker room guy, Rivers part of that trade doesn't want to be here and he's released.
Trade for good locker room guy in Johnson
Then this summer gets Baynes, Rubio, Carter who are all good culture types.
Drafts Cam who my impression so far is he's a professional and hard worker.

I agree having a guy like Carter around is nice. You know he's going to absolutely bring it in practice everyday and that's a good influence.

I do have a breaking point in what I'd pay Carter though simply because I think he's limited and kind of a fringe rotation guy. But honestly I might be selling him short, if he's really a 40% 3 pt shooter then he might be more than I'm giving him credit for and with his hard he works it's possible that shot stays real.

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If he's asking for something more than $4-5m year plus range then yeah, I don't think we'll retain his services. Considering the league revenue has taken a massive hit and will be at least a couple years before it recovers to pre-Covid levels, I think it's safe to assume that a guy of Carter's level will probably want to lock up something longish term even if it's for a lower amount. These next few seasons, teams are going to get very lean and a lot of players (especially, 8th, 9th or 10th men) are going to be lowering their demands just to make an NBA roster.

I do think you've underselling Carter, in the same way I may have undersold Jones' commitment to improving the culture on the team but I think it'll just be something we'll have to watch play out.

Also, I gotta say, it's nice having these forum discussions again after many months of not really being around the boards
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#88 » by SunsRback4Good » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:56 am

Jevon Carter reminds me of a bulldog I used to own. He's dead now but the memories live on forever. :( :( :[
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#89 » by bwgood77 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:32 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Might be overly dramatic but I view Carter as one of those guys who if we don't retain, then it says a lot about the culture and the kind of team we're putting together. I know I put Carter and Tucker in the same sentence often but I strongly believe the couple of seasons Tucker had with Booker and TJ were instrumental in instilling in those kids the mental and physical toughness that they need to compete at the highest level (as we're seeing now). I think Carter brings a lot of that same vibe and to me, he really sets that tone for us defensively the moment he steps on the court. I'm not saying he's going to teach toughness or mental strength like Tucker did because Tucker was a veteran with experience but he brings the same mentality which is infectious and something we sorely need.

If we don't retain then it tells me that this front office does not recognise the impact a guy like Carter has on a team.
There's plenty of legit questions about James Jones asset management as a GM but I'd say his dedication to culture has been pretty consistent. Look at his moves:
Chandler doesn't want to be here, released
Ariza is a loafing turd and he flips him for Oubre who's a good locker room guy, Rivers part of that trade doesn't want to be here and he's released.
Trade for good locker room guy in Johnson
Then this summer gets Baynes, Rubio, Carter who are all good culture types.
Drafts Cam who my impression so far is he's a professional and hard worker.

I agree having a guy like Carter around is nice. You know he's going to absolutely bring it in practice everyday and that's a good influence.

I do have a breaking point in what I'd pay Carter though simply because I think he's limited and kind of a fringe rotation guy. But honestly I might be selling him short, if he's really a 40% 3 pt shooter then he might be more than I'm giving him credit for and with his hard he works it's possible that shot stays real.

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If he's asking for something more than $4-5m year plus range then yeah, I don't think we'll retain his services. Considering the league revenue has taken a massive hit and will be at least a couple years before it recovers to pre-Covid levels, I think it's safe to assume that a guy of Carter's level will probably want to lock up something longish term even if it's for a lower amount. These next few seasons, teams are going to get very lean and a lot of players (especially, 8th, 9th or 10th men) are going to be lowering their demands just to make an NBA roster.

I do think you've underselling Carter, in the same way I may have undersold Jones' commitment to improving the culture on the team but I think it'll just be something we'll have to watch play out.

Also, I gotta say, it's nice having these forum discussions again after many months of not really being around the boards


He feels like more of a minimum guy though. $4-5 million seems like a lot.
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#90 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:56 pm

This is really the perfect explanation of what Carter is about as a player. Up 20 and dude chases down guy and guards him full court. He's that dude.

Read on Twitter
?s=19

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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#91 » by Fo-Real » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:28 pm

Anyone missing that star Melton that we gave up?!?! What was James Jones thinking?!.!
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#92 » by Saberestar » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:15 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#93 » by SunsRback4Good » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:34 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


I thought that was a little kid playfully hitting his father.
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#94 » by SunsRback4Good » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:35 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:This is really the perfect explanation of what Carter is about as a player. Up 20 and dude chases down guy and guards him full court. He's that dude.

Read on Twitter
?s=19

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


I've seen Payne doing the same it shows Carter's defense is rubbing off on other Suns players. His defense is infectious and I love watching it.
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#95 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:42 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:There's plenty of legit questions about James Jones asset management as a GM but I'd say his dedication to culture has been pretty consistent. Look at his moves:
Chandler doesn't want to be here, released
Ariza is a loafing turd and he flips him for Oubre who's a good locker room guy, Rivers part of that trade doesn't want to be here and he's released.
Trade for good locker room guy in Johnson
Then this summer gets Baynes, Rubio, Carter who are all good culture types.
Drafts Cam who my impression so far is he's a professional and hard worker.

I agree having a guy like Carter around is nice. You know he's going to absolutely bring it in practice everyday and that's a good influence.

I do have a breaking point in what I'd pay Carter though simply because I think he's limited and kind of a fringe rotation guy. But honestly I might be selling him short, if he's really a 40% 3 pt shooter then he might be more than I'm giving him credit for and with his hard he works it's possible that shot stays real.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

If he's asking for something more than $4-5m year plus range then yeah, I don't think we'll retain his services. Considering the league revenue has taken a massive hit and will be at least a couple years before it recovers to pre-Covid levels, I think it's safe to assume that a guy of Carter's level will probably want to lock up something longish term even if it's for a lower amount. These next few seasons, teams are going to get very lean and a lot of players (especially, 8th, 9th or 10th men) are going to be lowering their demands just to make an NBA roster.

I do think you've underselling Carter, in the same way I may have undersold Jones' commitment to improving the culture on the team but I think it'll just be something we'll have to watch play out.

Also, I gotta say, it's nice having these forum discussions again after many months of not really being around the boards


He feels like more of a minimum guy though. $4-5 million seems like a lot.


I would have agreed with you just a few games ago. But the chemistry he's quickly developed with Payne in the backcourt, and the 3 point shooting, combined with his commitment to the team and his teammates... I just think you gotta see what the market will give him and pledge to match it with an extra year if he wants it. If he can't get a decent offer, I'm happy to give him $3-4 million per over two. He's worth at least that much.
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#96 » by bwgood77 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:54 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:If he's asking for something more than $4-5m year plus range then yeah, I don't think we'll retain his services. Considering the league revenue has taken a massive hit and will be at least a couple years before it recovers to pre-Covid levels, I think it's safe to assume that a guy of Carter's level will probably want to lock up something longish term even if it's for a lower amount. These next few seasons, teams are going to get very lean and a lot of players (especially, 8th, 9th or 10th men) are going to be lowering their demands just to make an NBA roster.

I do think you've underselling Carter, in the same way I may have undersold Jones' commitment to improving the culture on the team but I think it'll just be something we'll have to watch play out.

Also, I gotta say, it's nice having these forum discussions again after many months of not really being around the boards


He feels like more of a minimum guy though. $4-5 million seems like a lot.


I would have agreed with you just a few games ago. But the chemistry he's quickly developed with Payne in the backcourt, and the 3 point shooting, combined with his commitment to the team and his teammates... I just think you gotta see what the market will give him and pledge to match it with an extra year if he wants it. If he can't get a decent offer, I'm happy to give him $3-4 million per over two. He's worth at least that much.


I guess it all just comes down to whether or not we care about cap space next summer or if we are happy with our current roster with no additions outside of rookies.

It's tough to know how much stock to put into these games. We look great but it's hard to know how serious a lot of these teams are even taking these games with so many teams locked into spots. I obviously think the Mavs and Clips took their games seriously against us. Miami too, but obviously they were missing their main guy, another starter and another key player.

I also wonder if the way Carter and Payne are playing are sustainable. Obviously Payne is worth keeping due to his 1 year cheap option. Carter is a guy we have seen all year so we have more to go on. I don't like to put too much stock in a few games but I did like the way he was shooting down the stretch even before this.

It's tough as key as these bench units have been. I really don't see a team offering him a multi year deal at like $4+ million a year though. I could see a team maybe giving him part of their MLE on a 1 year deal, maybe even slightly bloated, so they'd have the cap space back. That is something I'd do/match.
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#97 » by King4Day » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:16 pm

Reasonable deals for guys like Carter and Saric can be moved if we need space in the future. I wouldn't be afraid of 2 year deals, or 3 years with a team option on the 3rd.
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#98 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:51 pm

SunsRback4Good wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:This is really the perfect explanation of what Carter is about as a player. Up 20 and dude chases down guy and guards him full court. He's that dude.

Read on Twitter
?s=19

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


I've seen Payne doing the same it shows Carter's defense is rubbing off on other Suns players. His defense is infectious and I love watching it.
Absolutely. Payne's effort level on D has been an unexpected pleasant surprise. Might be Carter influenced bit also could be Payne realizing he needs to absolutely bring it to stick in the league, takes getting cut for some guys to understand that.

Him and Carter together have been a major pain for opponents to play against.

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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#99 » by Saberestar » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:10 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:There's plenty of legit questions about James Jones asset management as a GM but I'd say his dedication to culture has been pretty consistent. Look at his moves:
Chandler doesn't want to be here, released
Ariza is a loafing turd and he flips him for Oubre who's a good locker room guy, Rivers part of that trade doesn't want to be here and he's released.
Trade for good locker room guy in Johnson
Then this summer gets Baynes, Rubio, Carter who are all good culture types.
Drafts Cam who my impression so far is he's a professional and hard worker.

I agree having a guy like Carter around is nice. You know he's going to absolutely bring it in practice everyday and that's a good influence.

I do have a breaking point in what I'd pay Carter though simply because I think he's limited and kind of a fringe rotation guy. But honestly I might be selling him short, if he's really a 40% 3 pt shooter then he might be more than I'm giving him credit for and with his hard he works it's possible that shot stays real.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

If he's asking for something more than $4-5m year plus range then yeah, I don't think we'll retain his services. Considering the league revenue has taken a massive hit and will be at least a couple years before it recovers to pre-Covid levels, I think it's safe to assume that a guy of Carter's level will probably want to lock up something longish term even if it's for a lower amount. These next few seasons, teams are going to get very lean and a lot of players (especially, 8th, 9th or 10th men) are going to be lowering their demands just to make an NBA roster.

I do think you've underselling Carter, in the same way I may have undersold Jones' commitment to improving the culture on the team but I think it'll just be something we'll have to watch play out.

Also, I gotta say, it's nice having these forum discussions again after many months of not really being around the boards


He feels like more of a minimum guy though. $4-5 million seems like a lot.

I think that we need to assimilate that Carter is not a minimum guy anymore.

He is playing consistent minutes since mid January, so it's not actually an small sample size. For the season he has played 56 games for us and he was really good already before the break.

He doesn't score a lot, but for the last 20 games he is putting 6,7 ppg ...that's enough in addition to his stellar defense in the perimeter.

Thinking more about it I would try to sign him for at least 3 more years. With this guy you know what you gets and these next three years he will be in his prime. $10M/3 years probably would get it done.
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Re: Welcome Jevon Carter! (traded for JJ/Melton/2nd's) 

Post#100 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:10 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
He feels like more of a minimum guy though. $4-5 million seems like a lot.


I would have agreed with you just a few games ago. But the chemistry he's quickly developed with Payne in the backcourt, and the 3 point shooting, combined with his commitment to the team and his teammates... I just think you gotta see what the market will give him and pledge to match it with an extra year if he wants it. If he can't get a decent offer, I'm happy to give him $3-4 million per over two. He's worth at least that much.


I guess it all just comes down to whether or not we care about cap space next summer or if we are happy with our current roster with no additions outside of rookies.

It's tough to know how much stock to put into these games. We look great but it's hard to know how serious a lot of these teams are even taking these games with so many teams locked into spots. I obviously think the Mavs and Clips took their games seriously against us. Miami too, but obviously they were missing their main guy, another starter and another key player.

I also wonder if the way Carter and Payne are playing are sustainable. Obviously Payne is worth keeping due to his 1 year cheap option. Carter is a guy we have seen all year so we have more to go on. I don't like to put too much stock in a few games but I did like the way he was shooting down the stretch even before this.

It's tough as key as these bench units have been. I really don't see a team offering him a multi year deal at like $4+ million a year though. I could see a team maybe giving him part of their MLE on a 1 year deal, maybe even slightly bloated, so they'd have the cap space back. That is something I'd do/match.


I think you can put a lot of Jevon's struggles this season on being miscast as a PG and us not having any other stable guards to bring off the bench to elevate the offense. As good as Jevon is, he and Rubio are not ideal partners in the backcourt. And Booker's looked a lot better handling the ball in the bubble, which I put in part to Devin and Ayton's improvement at running the P&R and a lot on Cam and Bridges providing that additional, necessary spacing.

Jevon's a 3&D shooting guard trapped in a PG's body. It just doesn't seem like we lack for anything in the backcourt right now with Booker/Rubio/Payne/Carter.

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