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2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back!

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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1941 » by suns12345 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:02 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Crives wrote:Lol
Read on Twitter
?s=21

lol is that a necessary tweet?

On the real though, who thinks he's gonna just have the game of the season and put up like 22/7/4 and hitting like 4/6 3's


better yet, he's gonna average 22/7/4
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1942 » by Tankfest2018 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:29 am

Crives wrote:Im kind of shocked the kings only get 1 national game.. against the pelicans (same as us)

Yeah but we get those national games in the playoffs donchaknow. Fans around the nation will wonder why they only got to see us only once when we were the surprise team of the season beating everyone's expectations.

brb 'nother bowl.
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1943 » by spanishninja » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:42 am

Tankfest2018 wrote:
Crives wrote:Im kind of shocked the kings only get 1 national game.. against the pelicans (same as us)

Yeah but we get those national games in the playoffs donchaknow. Fans around the nation will wonder why they only got to see us only once when we were the surprise team of the season beating everyone's expectations.

brb 'nother bowl.


From what I can tell, the Pelicans games in both cases are a matter of Zion vs the top two picks of last year. Zion vs Ayton and Zion vs Bagley.
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1944 » by Frank Lee » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:34 pm

Somebody keep track of how points Booker scores and match it with how many points he gives up. Then talk about how bad his D is.

What his o/u avg? 25.5 ?
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1945 » by bwgood77 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:23 am

Frank Lee wrote:Somebody keep track of how points Booker scores and match it with how many points he gives up. Then talk about how bad his D is.

What his o/u avg? 25.5 ?


I thought this was a solid breakdown, based on the numbers. Our offensive rating was 8.4 better with him on the floor vs without, but the defensive rating was 4.3 worse, so a net rating for the team of 4.1

Booker’s 2019 play type percentiles
PPP=Points Per Possession

Offense:

—2019 Suns’ offense with Booker: 108.2 ORtg (2,242 minutes)
—2019 Suns’ offense without Booker: 99.8 ORtg (1,734 minutes)
—ORPM: +3.02, 17th in NBA
—ORAPM: +1.98, 29th in NBA
—OPIPM: +2.6, 23rd in the NBA

Play types:

https://stats.nba.com/players/transition/

—Pick and roll ball handler, 34.5% of possessions, .93 PPP, top 27% (8th most possessions per game)
—Transition, 19.7% of possessions, 1.16 PPP, top 38%
—ISO, 12.5% of possessions, .93 PPP, top 36%
—Off screens, 8.8% of possessions, .95 PPP, top 48%
—Spot up, 6.8% of possessions, .94 PPP, bottom 38%
—Handoffs, 4.9% of possessions, .75 PPP, bottom 24%
—Post up, 4% of possessions, 1.06 PPP, top 20%
—Cut, 2.8% of possessions, 1.45 PPP, top 17%

Defense: He was actually a very good pick and roll defender, but his defensive awareness, his closeouts, his reactions to actions were all terrible and have been since he come into the league.

—2019 Suns’ defense with Booker: 115.1 DRtg (2,242 minutes)
—2019 Suns’ defense without Booker: 110.8 ORtg (1,734 minutes)
—DRPM: -2.44, 496th in NBA
—RAPM: -1.84, 511th in NBA
—DPIPM: -3.3, LAST in the NBA, behind Young, Sexton, Knox

—Spot up, 34.8% of possessions, 1.02 PPP, bottom 48%
—Pick and roll ball handler, 24% of possessions, .72 PPP, top 10%
—Off screens, 11.2% of possessions, 1.24 PPP, bottom 11%
—Post up, 9.5% of possessions, .93 PPP, top 47%
—Handoffs, 9.2% of possessions, 1.23 PPP, bottom 9%
—ISO, 6.6% of possessions, 1.10 PPP, bottom 17%
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1946 » by Frank Lee » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:12 am

So which are the numbers that compare Bookers offensive output to the guy he was covering? Any team based stats are moot In my eyes considering the sub marginal talent and coaching surrounding him over the last 2-3 yrs.

Bookers offense will win us more games than his subpar defense loses.
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1947 » by El Hespiritu » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:19 am

Offense may be an individual thing. Works better when is a team effort but there's some room for single-handed stuff

Defense is either collective or not defense at all.
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1948 » by bwgood77 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:03 pm

Frank Lee wrote:So which are the numbers that compare Bookers offensive output to the guy he was covering? Any team based stats are moot In my eyes considering the sub marginal talent and coaching surrounding him over the last 2-3 yrs.

Bookers offense will win us more games than his subpar defense loses.


There is so much switching this is somewhat irrelevant when people. Defensive systems are more team based and help defense is so important. Booker can be decent one on one if his guy is dribbling the ball, but if he is out at the 3 pt line or running around off ball, he often loses his guy if he moves, while he is ball watching, or he cheats off too much towards the basket, not giving him enough time to close out if his guy gets the ball for a 3 pt shot.

Either way, his rates at the very bottom or close to it across the entire NBA when it comes to defense, so it just negates so much of all he brings on offense.
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1949 » by bwoolf2 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:54 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:So which are the numbers that compare Bookers offensive output to the guy he was covering? Any team based stats are moot In my eyes considering the sub marginal talent and coaching surrounding him over the last 2-3 yrs.

Bookers offense will win us more games than his subpar defense loses.


There is so much switching this is somewhat irrelevant when people. Defensive systems are more team based and help defense is so important. Booker can be decent one on one if his guy is dribbling the ball, but if he is out at the 3 pt line or running around off ball, he often loses his guy if he moves, while he is ball watching, or he cheats off too much towards the basket, not giving him enough time to close out if his guy gets the ball for a 3 pt shot.

Either way, his rates at the very bottom or close to it across the entire NBA when it comes to defense, so it just negates so much of all he brings on offense.


Let's give it this year when the Suns actually put competent NBA players on the floor next to him not playing out of position and some real coaching, he may be just as bad butvim willing to give him a pass on the past few due to coaching and lack of talent around him .
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1950 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:24 pm

Booker will never be an elite defender, he just doesn't have the physical tool or instincts that the great ones have. But like most players he can absolutely be passable on that end with better effort and attention to detail. Those two things go a long way to not being bad as a defender.

Two factors have probably played a part in how bad he's been. One is while its not a valid excuse it's human nature to let up a little bit when you're getting blown out. The second reason is simple fatigue, that is a little more of a real valid excuse because when you have to carry such a big usage rate on offense it will wear you done and impact your D. With Rubio taking some of the playmaking and Ayton taking more of a scoring load this is something that hopefully can improve this year. Also in theory they should be a deeper team so can shave some minutes off his workload.
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1951 » by DarkHawk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:34 pm

I think what scares me most about this is the fact that our FO felt Rozier was a better option than Rubio...

Read on Twitter



The evening before NBA teams spent more than $3 billion in free-agent contracts in just over 24 hours, Rozier found himself with friends celebrating an impending move to the Knicks. He had decided to bet on himself on a one-year deal. We're about to turn New York up, his friends cheered. "A night before free agency, I was a Knick," Rozier said.

He spent much of the night imagining what it would be like to light up Madison Square Garden. He woke up to a call at around 4 a.m. Phoenix had offered a contract. A bigger, better one. We gonna have to take that one, he thought.


The Charlotte Hornets beckoned later that day. Rozier remained inclined to accept Phoenix's bid. That was when, Rozier said, Michael Jordan, the Hornets' principal owner, intervened. "Mike was overseas, and I can just picture him probably having a cigar in his mouth and the words he told Mitch [Kupchak], the GM, was like: 'Get him over here. Do what you need to do to get him over here.'"

Rozier was sold. "I'd be a fool if I was to go anywhere else or turn down that," he said. "I look at it as just a team, organization believing in me. Knowing that I want to prove myself in this league and giving me that chance is bigger than anything and [their willingness] to pay me a right amount of money, it was just big and the guy that was behind all that was Michael Jordan. It's still surreal to me."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2849414-you-dont-know-terrys-scary?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1952 » by matt131 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:38 pm

DarkHawk wrote:I think what scares me most about this is the fact that our FO felt Rozier was a better option than Rubio...

Read on Twitter



The evening before NBA teams spent more than $3 billion in free-agent contracts in just over 24 hours, Rozier found himself with friends celebrating an impending move to the Knicks. He had decided to bet on himself on a one-year deal. We're about to turn New York up, his friends cheered. "A night before free agency, I was a Knick," Rozier said.

He spent much of the night imagining what it would be like to light up Madison Square Garden. He woke up to a call at around 4 a.m. Phoenix had offered a contract. A bigger, better one. We gonna have to take that one, he thought.


The Charlotte Hornets beckoned later that day. Rozier remained inclined to accept Phoenix's bid. That was when, Rozier said, Michael Jordan, the Hornets' principal owner, intervened. "Mike was overseas, and I can just picture him probably having a cigar in his mouth and the words he told Mitch [Kupchak], the GM, was like: 'Get him over here. Do what you need to do to get him over here.'"

Rozier was sold. "I'd be a fool if I was to go anywhere else or turn down that," he said. "I look at it as just a team, organization believing in me. Knowing that I want to prove myself in this league and giving me that chance is bigger than anything and [their willingness] to pay me a right amount of money, it was just big and the guy that was behind all that was Michael Jordan. It's still surreal to me."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2849414-you-dont-know-terrys-scary?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national


Thanks, MJ.

But still, yikes. I wonder what our offer was. Obviously less than the Hornets', but I wonder by how much
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1953 » by Crives » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:52 pm

matt131 wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:I think what scares me most about this is the fact that our FO felt Rozier was a better option than Rubio...

Read on Twitter



The evening before NBA teams spent more than $3 billion in free-agent contracts in just over 24 hours, Rozier found himself with friends celebrating an impending move to the Knicks. He had decided to bet on himself on a one-year deal. We're about to turn New York up, his friends cheered. "A night before free agency, I was a Knick," Rozier said.

He spent much of the night imagining what it would be like to light up Madison Square Garden. He woke up to a call at around 4 a.m. Phoenix had offered a contract. A bigger, better one. We gonna have to take that one, he thought.


The Charlotte Hornets beckoned later that day. Rozier remained inclined to accept Phoenix's bid. That was when, Rozier said, Michael Jordan, the Hornets' principal owner, intervened. "Mike was overseas, and I can just picture him probably having a cigar in his mouth and the words he told Mitch [Kupchak], the GM, was like: 'Get him over here. Do what you need to do to get him over here.'"

Rozier was sold. "I'd be a fool if I was to go anywhere else or turn down that," he said. "I look at it as just a team, organization believing in me. Knowing that I want to prove myself in this league and giving me that chance is bigger than anything and [their willingness] to pay me a right amount of money, it was just big and the guy that was behind all that was Michael Jordan. It's still surreal to me."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2849414-you-dont-know-terrys-scary?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national


Thanks, MJ.

But still, yikes. I wonder what our offer was. Obviously less than the Hornets', but I wonder by how much


Rubio was also off the table at the time... I think it was reported that we reached out to Rubios camp multiple times before FA began.
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1954 » by bwgood77 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:12 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Booker will never be an elite defender, he just doesn't have the physical tool or instincts that the great ones have. But like most players he can absolutely be passable on that end with better effort and attention to detail. Those two things go a long way to not being bad as a defender.

Two factors have probably played a part in how bad he's been. One is while its not a valid excuse it's human nature to let up a little bit when you're getting blown out. The second reason is simple fatigue, that is a little more of a real valid excuse because when you have to carry such a big usage rate on offense it will wear you done and impact your D. With Rubio taking some of the playmaking and Ayton taking more of a scoring load this is something that hopefully can improve this year. Also in theory they should be a deeper team so can shave some minutes off his workload.


I'd like to say I think he can become an average defender, but when you are at the bottom of the NBA after 4 years, it's likely not in the cards and I don't think it's something he focuses on improving. The lack of awareness on off ball defense is alarming at this stage in the game.

I didn't like it from Ayton which is a huge weakness for him but he's already better than Booker at that. He just plays a more important position from a defensive standpoint which is why it is talked about quite a bit. We really need Ayton to be an elite defender if we plan on getting to the playoffs in the west, and especially advancing. Booker can possibly be hidden if we have 4 other elite defenders on the floor at all times.
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1955 » by bwgood77 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:19 pm

Crives wrote:
matt131 wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:I think what scares me most about this is the fact that our FO felt Rozier was a better option than Rubio...



Thanks, MJ.

But still, yikes. I wonder what our offer was. Obviously less than the Hornets', but I wonder by how much


Rubio was also off the table at the time... I think it was reported that we reached out to Rubios camp multiple times before FA began.


I think we were targeting Rozier over Rubio, probably for multiple reasons....age fits better with core so could be a long term piece, could spread the floor with decent 3 pt shooting and is solid defensively.

I never wanted Rozier (one of my least favorite options) but he would have likely been decent next to Booker if Booker was the primary ball handler due to the 3&D that he brings, and he still has upside.

But what really turned me off was the terrible 2pt shooting...awful....seemed a lot of people overrated him a year ago and thought he was worth way more money than he was.

With Rubio, we probably don't have our PG of the future with this core (not that Rozier would have been that, but is younger with more upside).

I have high hopes for Ty Jerome, especially since he's older with a lot of experience, can shoot, pass and play smart ball, and even Okobo who is younger with the long wingspan and defensive upside. Okobo may end up turning into a 3rd option combo guard though.
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1956 » by Crives » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:39 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Crives wrote:
matt131 wrote:
Thanks, MJ.

But still, yikes. I wonder what our offer was. Obviously less than the Hornets', but I wonder by how much


Rubio was also off the table at the time... I think it was reported that we reached out to Rubios camp multiple times before FA began.


I think we were targeting Rozier over Rubio, probably for multiple reasons....age fits better with core so could be a long term piece, could spread the floor with decent 3 pt shooting and is solid defensively.

I never wanted Rozier (one of my least favorite options) but he would have likely been decent next to Booker if Booker was the primary ball handler due to the 3&D that he brings, and he still has upside.

But what really turned me off was the terrible 2pt shooting...awful....seemed a lot of people overrated him a year ago and thought he was worth way more money than he was.

With Rubio, we probably don't have our PG of the future with this core (not that Rozier would have been that, but is younger with more upside).

I have high hopes for Ty Jerome, especially since he's older with a lot of experience, can shoot, pass and play smart ball, and even Okobo who is younger with the long wingspan and defensive upside. Okobo may end up turning into a 3rd option combo guard though.


True.
If Jerome doesn’t look to be a long term starter... looks like there are quite a few pgs in this draft that we could slowly develop.
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1957 » by SunsLyf3 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:20 pm

I'm really curious to find out what the offer was. Maybe he got a 3 year deal at 14-15 mill. The way he is quoted pretty much indicates he was looking for the bigger pay day. I wasn't a fan of signing him but if it was something like the Oubre deal it wouldn't have been bad at all.
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1958 » by Qwigglez » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:12 pm

My goodness, if we had gotten Rozier instead of Rubio I’d be pissed. I’m really wondering though why we didn’t even consider DLo?
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1959 » by Blonde » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:29 pm

Qwigglez wrote:My goodness, if we had gotten Rozier instead of Rubio I’d be pissed. I’m really wondering though why we didn’t even consider DLo?

Either because they wanted to keep a pretty cap sheet or due to character issues. Neither of which is good reasoning in this particular case.

I have no faith in this front office.
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Re: 2019 Post draft, free agency, and trade speculation: ValleyBoyz are back! 

Post#1960 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:59 pm

DarkHawk wrote:I think what scares me most about this is the fact that our FO felt Rozier was a better option than Rubio...

Read on Twitter



The evening before NBA teams spent more than $3 billion in free-agent contracts in just over 24 hours, Rozier found himself with friends celebrating an impending move to the Knicks. He had decided to bet on himself on a one-year deal. We're about to turn New York up, his friends cheered. "A night before free agency, I was a Knick," Rozier said.

He spent much of the night imagining what it would be like to light up Madison Square Garden. He woke up to a call at around 4 a.m. Phoenix had offered a contract. A bigger, better one. We gonna have to take that one, he thought.


The Charlotte Hornets beckoned later that day. Rozier remained inclined to accept Phoenix's bid. That was when, Rozier said, Michael Jordan, the Hornets' principal owner, intervened. "Mike was overseas, and I can just picture him probably having a cigar in his mouth and the words he told Mitch [Kupchak], the GM, was like: 'Get him over here. Do what you need to do to get him over here.'"

Rozier was sold. "I'd be a fool if I was to go anywhere else or turn down that," he said. "I look at it as just a team, organization believing in me. Knowing that I want to prove myself in this league and giving me that chance is bigger than anything and [their willingness] to pay me a right amount of money, it was just big and the guy that was behind all that was Michael Jordan. It's still surreal to me."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2849414-you-dont-know-terrys-scary?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national

I agree with the sentiment about the Suns front office and I hate the fact that we were after Rozier at all and it got as far as him basically accepting it but to be fair, it wasn't hard to have offered him a better deal if the only other competing offer on the table was a 1yr deal from NY. I think if we had offered him something even in the realm of $12-15m a yr, it would've been more than enough for him to reconsider the 1yr NY deal.

But again, I certainly concede to your point that it's a bit scary to think it took MJ's stupidity as an NBA owner to save our ass from our own stupidity
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