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2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22, Kerrsed

Who is your favorite draft prospect you think might fall to us?

Bey
0
No votes
Haliburtion
7
16%
Hayes
3
7%
Lewis
4
9%
Nesmith
0
No votes
Okoro
0
No votes
Smith
2
5%
Pokusevski
3
7%
Toppin
12
28%
Vassell
12
28%
 
Total votes: 43

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Ghost of Kleine
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1341 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Sep 6, 2020 5:40 am

Crives wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
If Riller is a Lillard/VanVleet mix, he should be in the conversation, or maybe the favorite, for the top pick in the draft. It will be interesting to see where he goes.


Yep! :nod:
Riller definitely does have Elite aspects of his game that are truly comparable/ very similiar to both Lillard and Van Vleet.

With Lillard, Riller shares very similiar elite burst, strength,creativity in getting to the rim. Also his elite ball handling and nearly unstoppable penetration to the rim. As well as scoring at the rim with elite efficiency for his size. Also they both have a knack for making big two way plays, and hitting "timely big shots" to impact a game.

With Van Vleet, Riller shares, Elite creativity and an advanced ball handling skill set that allows him to pretty much anywhere he wants on the court. He also shares a really high basketball IQ, Maturity, great poise, And is very good at creating elite gravity upon penetration. Lastly much like Van Vleet, Riller is very good at controlling the tempo of the game with his court savvy, elite ball handling, creativity, And they both again share a knack for making big impact shots and two way plays that can change the outcome and flow of the game! :wink:
You know, It's funny in that every draft has at least one or more severely underrated, come out of nowhere prospects that almost no one properly identified. And they later become categorized as elite steals of the draft. I strongly believe that Riller is one of these prospects. And I truly hope that he remains undervalued, So that we can possibly get him as an immense value pick in a trade back scenario possibly! :D


We can tell :D

What do you think is holding back Riller from being high on mocks? Age?

I worry a little bit about how his absolutely elite scoring at the rim will translate in the NBA.

Of course anyone can with how emphatically optimistic I am towards him, as well as specific other prospects too. :wink:
I think it's a combination of his age, And his not getting national recognition due to playing in a small conference. And lastly, Of course the fact that the conference he plays in has a really poor defensive rating. So quite a few scouts have concerns ( same as you do) about how his scoring will translate in the pros. And to be fair, It's a valid concern. However, I for my part don't share those concerns with Riller, As he's been very solid and consistently improving his entire college career. And as for his elite scoring at the rim, He's very crafty and still has elite burst, And an advanced ball handling skill set, And is a savvy high IQ player. So I think that he'll surprise many people with his impact, Even in his first year.And even at his current age, I actually don't think he's yet a finished product. I believe he still has a little more shine in him, once he receives a bit more polish in a professional environment, And has more scoring options around him. And as a result, Won't have to be the primary scoring option on the team. This should allow him to more fully develop and showcase his underrated play making skills, and solid defensive potential too. :D
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1342 » by Bogyo » Sun Sep 6, 2020 11:08 am

I listened some podcasts, and I have to say I feel really good about this draft for the Suns.

There are 5 legit prospects who I would like for us in our range. So if we pick one of them I'll be happy - the rest is on the coaches to implement and train them so they fulfill their potential and become valuable players for us.
Hayes, Okongowu - likely won't be there, but there is a small chance. One of Vassel, Haliburton, Toppin very possibly will be there at ten. Take one of them and run with it.

If we do trade back, then Precious, Lewis, Riller are also guys who I would see being solid contributors for us in some time. So all in all, I do not think I would be very dissapointed on draft day. (Unless we trade our pick for cash considerations, hello Mr. Saver!)
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1343 » by Crives » Sun Sep 6, 2020 4:44 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Crives wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Yep! :nod:
Riller definitely does have Elite aspects of his game that are truly comparable/ very similiar to both Lillard and Van Vleet.

With Lillard, Riller shares very similiar elite burst, strength,creativity in getting to the rim. Also his elite ball handling and nearly unstoppable penetration to the rim. As well as scoring at the rim with elite efficiency for his size. Also they both have a knack for making big two way plays, and hitting "timely big shots" to impact a game.

With Van Vleet, Riller shares, Elite creativity and an advanced ball handling skill set that allows him to pretty much anywhere he wants on the court. He also shares a really high basketball IQ, Maturity, great poise, And is very good at creating elite gravity upon penetration. Lastly much like Van Vleet, Riller is very good at controlling the tempo of the game with his court savvy, elite ball handling, creativity, And they both again share a knack for making big impact shots and two way plays that can change the outcome and flow of the game! :wink:
You know, It's funny in that every draft has at least one or more severely underrated, come out of nowhere prospects that almost no one properly identified. And they later become categorized as elite steals of the draft. I strongly believe that Riller is one of these prospects. And I truly hope that he remains undervalued, So that we can possibly get him as an immense value pick in a trade back scenario possibly! :D


We can tell :D

What do you think is holding back Riller from being high on mocks? Age?

I worry a little bit about how his absolutely elite scoring at the rim will translate in the NBA.

Of course anyone can with how emphatically optimistic I am towards him, as well as specific other prospects too. :wink:
I think it's a combination of his age, And his not getting national recognition due to playing in a small conference. And lastly, Of course the fact that the conference he plays in has a really poor defensive rating. So quite a few scouts have concerns ( same as you do) about how his scoring will translate in the pros. And to be fair, It's a valid concern. However, I for my part don't share those concerns with Riller, As he's been very solid and consistently improving his entire college career. And as for his elite scoring at the rim, He's very crafty and still has elite burst, And an advanced ball handling skill set, And is a savvy high IQ player. So I think that he'll surprise many people with his impact, Even in his first year.And even at his current age, I actually don't think he's yet a finished product. I believe he still has a little more shine in him, once he receives a bit more polish in a professional environment, And has more scoring options around him. And as a result, Won't have to be the primary scoring option on the team. This should allow him to more fully develop and showcase his underrated play making skills, and solid defensive potential too. :D


Watched some more tape last night and I really liked what I saw. One negative thing that stood out was how often Riller had wide open teammates on the 3pt line when he was making his incredible drives. A little concerning unless his teammates were very poor shooters.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1344 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Sep 6, 2020 9:59 pm

Crives wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Crives wrote:
We can tell :D

What do you think is holding back Riller from being high on mocks? Age?

I worry a little bit about how his absolutely elite scoring at the rim will translate in the NBA.

Of course anyone can with how emphatically optimistic I am towards him, as well as specific other prospects too. :wink:
I think it's a combination of his age, And his not getting national recognition due to playing in a small conference. And lastly, Of course the fact that the conference he plays in has a really poor defensive rating. So quite a few scouts have concerns ( same as you do) about how his scoring will translate in the pros. And to be fair, It's a valid concern. However, I for my part don't share those concerns with Riller, As he's been very solid and consistently improving his entire college career. And as for his elite scoring at the rim, He's very crafty and still has elite burst, And an advanced ball handling skill set, And is a savvy high IQ player. So I think that he'll surprise many people with his impact, Even in his first year.And even at his current age, I actually don't think he's yet a finished product. I believe he still has a little more shine in him, once he receives a bit more polish in a professional environment, And has more scoring options around him. And as a result, Won't have to be the primary scoring option on the team. This should allow him to more fully develop and showcase his underrated play making skills, and solid defensive potential too. :D


Watched some more tape last night and I really liked what I saw. One negative thing that stood out was how often Riller had wide open teammates on the 3pt line when he was making his incredible drives. A little concerning unless his teammates were very poor shooters.


Sure! :wink:
But I'd equate that more to him having little if any other legitimate/ productive scoring options on the team, Leading him to constantly have to carry the offensive load. But I'm fairly certain that should be remedied once he is in the nba with much better elite scoring options around him. Also his passing should improve greatly and be more prominent as a result too, Along with being mentored by Rubio for a year or too. :nod:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1345 » by Qwigglez » Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:19 am

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
nevetsov wrote:With the 2021 draft class allegedly being loaded with PG talent, do you think it's better to chase a PG prospect at 10 this year or 15 next year? I'm unfamiliar with the prospects next year so I don't know which route would result in the better player.
Maybe but last year at this time people were saying the 2020 draft was going to be loaded with PGs and guys like Anthony and Maxey were looked at as top picks. It's hard to predict how these classes shake out.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


The first post in this thread is a tweet from Dime magazing titled "The three most interesting prospects in the 2020 draft" and it shows Cole Anthony and Nico Mannion on the front.

I've noticed somewhat of a trend where a lot of the top high school prospects who disappoint in college also end up as busts in the NBA....at least compared to expectations (Wiggins, Parker, Shabazz...and then see below)

This is kind of why I like Toppin...guys who suddenly emerge in college without being highly ranked HS prospects must have tremendous work ethic, high bbiq and just show they are a lot better than people had predicted....and that seems to carry over often in the pros....at least the last few years with Trae, Morant and Clarke.

Some more highly ranked HS prospects (like a Cole Anthony of this year):

Top 4 in 2014 were Okafor, Mudiay, Stanley Johnson and Cliff Alexander (Okafor and Johnson were actually pretty good in college)

In 2015 Skal Labissiere was the top HS prospect

Josh Jackson was the top prospect in 2016, Harry Giles was 2, Ball was 4 and Fultz was 5 (they were decent in college...Tatum was 3rd that year though)

2017 Bagley was 2, Bamba 4, Trevon Duval 5...Michael Porter was 1st..of course Denver got him late due to injury...Ayton 3rd.

2018 RJ Barrett 1, Nassir Little 2, Reddish 3.

Now remember this is post HS, pre college...obviously Zion was #1 post college.

Here are 2019 pre college

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2019

The others:

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2018
https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2017
https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2016
https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2015
https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2014



I think most top prospects from HS are just athletic freaks and they think that can just carry over to college and then the pros. I agree that I would like to get guys that came out of nowhere and turned into something in college, those guys are probably harder working and have a higher IQ. I didn't realize Toppin fit that category so I think I'm on the Toppin train now.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1346 » by bwgood77 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 2:26 pm

Qwigglez wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Maybe but last year at this time people were saying the 2020 draft was going to be loaded with PGs and guys like Anthony and Maxey were looked at as top picks. It's hard to predict how these classes shake out.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


The first post in this thread is a tweet from Dime magazing titled "The three most interesting prospects in the 2020 draft" and it shows Cole Anthony and Nico Mannion on the front.

I've noticed somewhat of a trend where a lot of the top high school prospects who disappoint in college also end up as busts in the NBA....at least compared to expectations (Wiggins, Parker, Shabazz...and then see below)

This is kind of why I like Toppin...guys who suddenly emerge in college without being highly ranked HS prospects must have tremendous work ethic, high bbiq and just show they are a lot better than people had predicted....and that seems to carry over often in the pros....at least the last few years with Trae, Morant and Clarke.

Some more highly ranked HS prospects (like a Cole Anthony of this year):

Top 4 in 2014 were Okafor, Mudiay, Stanley Johnson and Cliff Alexander (Okafor and Johnson were actually pretty good in college)

In 2015 Skal Labissiere was the top HS prospect

Josh Jackson was the top prospect in 2016, Harry Giles was 2, Ball was 4 and Fultz was 5 (they were decent in college...Tatum was 3rd that year though)

2017 Bagley was 2, Bamba 4, Trevon Duval 5...Michael Porter was 1st..of course Denver got him late due to injury...Ayton 3rd.

2018 RJ Barrett 1, Nassir Little 2, Reddish 3.

Now remember this is post HS, pre college...obviously Zion was #1 post college.

Here are 2019 pre college

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2019

The others:

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2018
https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2017
https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2016
https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2015
https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2014



I think most top prospects from HS are just athletic freaks and they think that can just carry over to college and then the pros. I agree that I would like to get guys that came out of nowhere and turned into something in college, those guys are probably harder working and have a higher IQ. I didn't realize Toppin fit that category so I think I'm on the Toppin train now.


Toppin wasn't even ranked particularly high after his freshman year...could have probably entered the draft, but would have been a 2nd rounder. Kind of like Morant. Then Toppin wins national player of the year from just about every publication and led Dayton out of nowhere to a top 5 ranking. I know some national players of the year have not amounted to a whole lot like Jimmer or Tyler Hansbrough or Kaminsky, but those were 4 year guys, Hansbrough being at a major school North Carolina and Kaminsky at Wisconsin with other really good players.

He also won some other awards like the Karl Malone award (Zion and Ayton the last two winners), which those guys above didn't, but it hasn't been around as long...

2019-20 A-10 Player of the Year
2019-20 All-A-10 - 1st Team
2019-20 AP Player of the Year
2019-20 NABC Player of the Year
2019-20 Naismith Award
2019-20 The Karl Malone Award
2019-20 USBWA Player of the Year
2019-20 Wooden Award
2019-20 Wooden Award - Finalists
2019-20 Wooden Award - Late Season
2019-20 Wooden Award - Midseason
2019-20 Consensus All-America
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1347 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:19 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=09

Another unlikely mid to late 2nd round consideration for bench depth. He's got good size at 6'5 and also good athleticism. He's very scrappy and tenacious as a defender, And as stated above he's a really good ISO scorer. And would be yet another low cost under the radar value pick we could consider, IF we look to minimize costs vs. value/ contribution.

https://nevadawolfpack.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/jalen-harris/4168
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1348 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Sep 8, 2020 4:08 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=09

Pretty interesting content on ESPN+

EXCLUSIVE CONTENT

2020 NBA draft: How the best prospects compare to playoff stars

Mike SchmitzESPN

With the playoffs in full swing in Orlando, Florida, scouts and executives have been preparing for the 2020 NBA Draft with a close eye on what has and hasn't been working in the bubble.

Sure, circumstances are far from normal -- there are plenty of players in playoff rotations who in a more traditional season wouldn't be stepping on the hardwood. But intentionally or not, the playoff success of some young players can have an impact on how front offices view certain prospects in the 2020 draft class.

With that in mind, here are 12 draft prospects who have NBA archetypes that have thrived in the Orlando bubble, and how they compare to those NBA stars.

MORE: 2020 NBA Draft big board

Donovan Mitchell

SG | Anthony Edwards, Georgia

Although the Utah Jazz couldn't squeeze past the Nuggets, Mitchell proved himself as one of the league's best young guards, averaging 36.3 points, 5.0 rebounds and 4.9 assists on 54% shooting from 2 and 52% from 3 in seven games. Along with the struggles of the Milwaukee Bucks, Mitchell's success is a great reminder of just how important it is to have a dynamic shot-creator in the backcourt. When the game slows down in the playoffs, there's great value in handing the ball to a guard who can make pull-up 3s, punish teams in midrange spots, put pressure on the rim or beat a switch from the perimeter.

While they've had extremely different development paths, potential No. 1 pick Edwards could eventually step into a similar role. Like Mitchell, Edwards can stop on a dime and rise up from NBA range out of a variety of different dribble moves, even if he's still quite streaky from 3. He also has the strength, handle and shiftiness at 6-foot-5 and 225 pounds to break down set defenses and either put bigs on posters or get to the free throw line. Edwards also holds some untapped playmaking potential, even if he's wired to score.

Mitchell was an ultra-competitive, energy defender early on in his high school years, though a bit wild at times offensively. He has always been praised for his approach to the game and professionalism. Edwards, on the other hand, faces question marks about his winning impact and defensive intensity. But as far as talent is concerned, Edwards should be studying Mitchell closely because he has the ingredients to shine in that type of role someday.


Tyler Herro, Jamal Murray

SG | Tyrese Maxey, Kentucky

Both Herro and Murray were labeled "shooters" or "shotmakers" coming out of Kentucky. Somewhat like Devin Booker before them, they found success sprinting off screens, spacing to the corners, playing out of handoffs and occasionally making something happen in pick-and-roll. It's not a fault of Coach Cal's, this is how Kentucky teams overloaded with talent win games -- keep it simple for each prospect.

To varying degrees, Herro and Murray are great examples of why it's important to see Kentucky prospects in a variety of settings to evaluate the full package. We saw Herro play more on-ball at the prep level and at USA Basketball camps, so it was realistic to project him as an eventual pick-and-roll player. Murray shouldered more on-ball duties with the Canadian National Team, and you could envision a trajectory where he evolved into a capable facilitator.

Maxey wasn't nearly as prolific or efficient a college player and stands only 6-foot-3. His critics have called him a "small two-guard" when in fact he has a fairly similar set of strengths and weaknesses as two Kentucky guards before him. Maxey also plays much bigger than his height with long arms, broad stride and a physical frame. He has range well-beyond the NBA 3-point line, is comfortable shooting off movement, can rise up in mid-range spots, has great touch and craft around the rim and is a comfortable quick-action passer. And like Herro, Maxey is a scrappy defender who plays with excellent energy. Being able to play off of a passing big like Nikola Jokic and Bam Adebayo will be important to Maxey's early success, but Herro and Murray have proven that scouts should be careful when setting limits for Kentucky guards.

Luguentz Dort, Jaylen Brown

SF | Isaac Okoro, Auburn

Watching Lu Dort make James Harden work for every shot over the course of a grueling seven-game series has to make NBA scouts feel very comfortable with Isaac Okoro's floor. Dort, who spent the majority of his freshman year in the first round of our 2019 mock draft, somehow went undrafted. But it was always clear that at the very least Dort was an NBA-caliber defender who could add value on that half of the floor in a playoff game.

But for as much as we liked Dort during his prep career and at Arizona State, Okoro is even bigger (6-foot-6), longer (6-foot-10 wingspan) and just as physical at around 225 pounds, with more offensive skill as a ball-handler and passer. Jaylen Brown's success putting the clamps on Pascal Siakam while continuing to evolve on the offensive end should also bode well for Okoro, who has similar dimensions to his fellow Georgia native. Okoro has clear areas to improve, but like Dort and Brown early in their careers, his baseline as a defender, slasher and occasional spot-up shooter is extremely useful come playoff time, which teams should weigh heavily come draft night. Dort's defensive value also figures to help a stout perimeter defender like Arizona's Josh Green.

Duncan Robinson

PF | Jordan Nwora, Louisville

While even Robinson didn't expect to be a key starter for one of the NBA's hottest teams, he has certainly brought more attention to 6-foot-8 wings who can shoot off movement like he can. There might not be another prospect exactly like Robinson in this draft. After all, starting 76 of 81 games and shooting 66% from 2, 44% from 3 and 91% from the free throw line is a lot to ask of a second-year player.

But Robinson's breakout season could cause scouts to view a prospect such as Nwora through a different lens, focusing more on his size and elite skill than what he can't do. Nwora has his shortcomings as a defender and passer, and he'll surely have an adjustment going from Louisville's go-to scorer in back-to-back seasons to a more floor-spacing role in the NBA with less offensive freedom. But so long as he can rev up his defensive motor and continue learning to read the game out of quick actions like Robinson has, Nwora could look to emulate a similar path -- there aren't many players with his size and shooting stroke in this draft.

The 21-year-old has a strong collegiate and Nigerian National Team resume and shot 39% from 3 on 450 NCAA attempts, with several of those coming on the move off screens, out of handoffs or off the dribble.


Bam Adebayo

C | Onyeka Okongwu, USC
PF | Precious Achiuwa, Memphis

Bam Adebayo's emergence has helped make what scouts used to call "undersized centers" more valuable than ever. While you'll still see jumbo front lines from teams like the Bucks and Lakers, the 6-foot-10 big man has proven just how devastating a 1-through-5 defender who handles and passes truly is, so much so that the Bucks are on the ropes in Orlando.

With that said, Okongwu and Achiuwa are not carbon copies of Adebayo. While he handles it well for his size and can guard all five spots in a pinch, the 6-foot-9 Achiuwa is still very much evolving as a passer. Okongwu has Bam-like bounce and defensive versatility (although Okongwu is better around the rim than on the perimeter) but he's not quite the ball handler that Adebayo was prior to the NBA. Even though they're not identical, there are absolutely some similarities between the three -- and Miami's success with Adebayo should help pave the way for players like Okongwu and Achiuwa.

OG Anunoby


SF | Patrick Williams, Florida State
SF | Robert Woodard II, Mississippi State

Although Toronto stumbled out of the gates against Boston, 23-year-old Anunoby has proven just how valuable it is to have a 6-foot-8, 230-pound wing who can play either forward spot, defend multiple positions and make open 3s. Anunoby's game has never been flashy, and some scouts questioned his feel and skill level coming out of college -- part of the reason he fell to the Raptors at 23, in addition to an ACL tear at Indiana. But the Raptors wouldn't be where they are without his defense, floor spacing and presence on the glass.

Anunoby's proven value opens the door for Florida State forward Patrick Williams, who is built a lot like the Raptors wing at 6-foot-8 and 230 pounds with tree-trunk thighs and a 7-foot wingspan. Williams, the second youngest player in the draft, is viewed as a potential top-10 pick because he can fill the coveted 3-and-D combo forward role like Anunoby. He actually struggled some to contain the ball on the perimeter at Florida State and has room to grow as a 3-point shooter (32% on low volume), but Williams has the body to bang with LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard-type big wings in the mid-post and some untapped potential as a ball-handler and passer.

Although not quite as tall, 6-foot-7, 230-pound combo forward Robert Woodard out of Mississippi State also fits that mold. Like Anunoby, his game isn't sexy and he's not quite as quick-footed, but the tools are similar -- the shooting potential is there. He could end up as a late first-round steal. In terms of second-round names, Penn State's Lamar Stevens should also benefit from Anunoby's emergence.


Michael Porter Jr., Darius Bazley

PF | Jaden McDaniels, Washington

Although he has taken a bit of a backseat since the playoffs tipped off, Porter Jr.'s bubble success could make scouts think long and hard about passing on a 6-foot-10 wing like McDaniels. While McDaniels was never the same level of prep star that Porter Jr. was, the rangy Seattle native did spend time near the top of our 2020 mock draft prior to his freshman season at Washington for a reason. Fluid, jumbo wings who can handle, shoot off the catch and show glimpses of defensive ability aren't easy to find -- and McDaniels fits that prototype.

Opponents have exposed Porter Jr.'s defensive shortcomings in the playoffs and McDaniels himself has flaws, he's still learning how to impact winning consistently. But I'd expect Porter Jr.'s bubble success -- and even the play of 6-foot-9 OKC wing Bazley -- to make McDaniels attractive to a team with a strong infrastructure and that can be patient like Denver has been. In a draft that doesn't have a ton of high upside prospects outside the top three, McDaniels has the tools to pop, unlike others in his draft range.

Bol Bol

PF | Aleksej Pokusevski, Serbia

The Bol Bol experience was fairly short-lived, but watching the 7-foot-2 unicorn run around making on-the-move 3s, firing one-handed outlets into tight windows and rotating to block shots should make a prospect like Aleksej Pokusevski harder to pass on. Like with most of these comparisons, the parallels aren't identical. Pokusveski projects more as a jumbo 4/5 with wing-like agility, but like Bol was, he's quite polarizing. The youngest player in the draft, the 7-foot-1 Pokusevski can sprint off screens, pull up off the bounce, handle and pass like Jokic in transition, and protect the rim, as he posted historic shot blocking marks at the FIBA level for Serbia.


Although it's a very low level of play in the Greek second league, Pokusevski's statistical profile is unique, with per 40-minute averages of 18.7 points, 13.7 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 3.1 blocks, 2.2 steals and 2.7 made 3s at a 33% clip. However, Pokusevski has battled motor and durability issues throughout his career, like Bol, and made it through only 11 low-level games this season. As we questioned with the former Oregon Duck, it's unclear if Pokusevski can make it through rigorous 82-game seasons or if he'll be best as a change-of-pace big who can give coaches a different wrinkle to work with. As was the case with Bol, throw on a highlight reel and you could make a case for Pokusevski having as much upside as anyone in the draft.

Grant Williams

C | Xavier Tillman, Michigan State

Although he's far from a box score standout, 21-year-old Grant Williams has made it increasingly harder for Brad Stevens to keep him off the floor given his toughness, basketball IQ and affinity for winning plays. While Williams is a better perimeter shooter at the same stage, Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and potential first-round sleeper Tillman brings a lot of the same energy and toughness to the table.

Similarly undersized for a 4/5 at around 6-foot-8, teams might have the urge to nitpick Tillman like they did Williams. But as Tillman told us during our film session, "I'm a winner. I don't lose a lot of games ... I do whatever it takes to win." He's a physical post defender, battles for rebounds on both ends of the floor, is an excellent passer and is a capable rim protector in a pinch. While there are certainly prospects with more traditional upside than Tillman, he's ready to step into a playoff game tomorrow and have an impact, which scouts are surely taking note of with Williams' growing role.

Although not the same level of passer, the more highly touted Isaiah Stewart is a physical, ultra-productive big who could also benefit from Williams' play. Stewart has the type of spirit, length, mentality and shooting potential to help an NBA playoff team right away.

Gary Trent Jr.

SF | Aaron Nesmith, Vanderbilt

Watching Trent Jr. knock down big 3 after big 3 while also trying his best to contain LeBron on the other end will have teams thinking more and more about drafting 6-foot-6 long-range shooters with the body to defend elite wings. Despite putting up huge numbers at the prep level and with Team USA as a young teen, Trent Jr. fell to 37 in the 2018 draft in part because of his shot-hungry style and inconsistent defense at Duke. But Trent Jr. is a great example of just how important having that confidence is -- even if sometimes irrational -- for a 3-and-D-style wing.

Although a potential lottery pick, Vanderbilt's Aaron Nesmith faces similar questions about his defense and affinity to hunt shots. But, like Trent Jr., Nesmith has an absolute flame-thrower ability, stands 6-foot-6 with a great frame and a 6-foot-10 wingspan, and is fairly competitive, even if he wasn't the defender he could have been at the collegiate level. Trent Jr.'s emergence should also trickle down deeper on the draft board as well, helping names like physical 6-foot-6 shotmakers Desmond Bane (TCU) and Elijah Huhges (Syracuse).

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1349 » by bwgood77 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 7:52 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:SG | Tyrese Maxey, Kentucky

Both Herro and Murray were labeled "shooters" or "shotmakers" coming out of Kentucky. Somewhat like Devin Booker before them, they found success sprinting off screens, spacing to the corners, playing out of handoffs and occasionally making something happen in pick-and-roll. It's not a fault of Coach Cal's, this is how Kentucky teams overloaded with talent win games -- keep it simple for each prospect.

To varying degrees, Herro and Murray are great examples of why it's important to see Kentucky prospects in a variety of settings to evaluate the full package. We saw Herro play more on-ball at the prep level and at USA Basketball camps, so it was realistic to project him as an eventual pick-and-roll player. Murray shouldered more on-ball duties with the Canadian National Team, and you could envision a trajectory where he evolved into a capable facilitator.

Maxey wasn't nearly as prolific or efficient a college player and stands only 6-foot-3. His critics have called him a "small two-guard" when in fact he has a fairly similar set of strengths and weaknesses as two Kentucky guards before him. Maxey also plays much bigger than his height with long arms, broad stride and a physical frame. He has range well-beyond the NBA 3-point line, is comfortable shooting off movement, can rise up in mid-range spots, has great touch and craft around the rim and is a comfortable quick-action passer. And like Herro, Maxey is a scrappy defender who plays with excellent energy. Being able to play off of a passing big like Nikola Jokic and Bam Adebayo will be important to Maxey's early success, but Herro and Murray have proven that scouts should be careful when setting limits for Kentucky guards.



Makes me like him a lot more. Mainly because I didn't know anything about him. If Toppin, Vassell and Haliburton are off the board, I'd take a long look at him. Could come down between him and Kira Lewis.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1350 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:00 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:SG | Tyrese Maxey, Kentucky

Both Herro and Murray were labeled "shooters" or "shotmakers" coming out of Kentucky. Somewhat like Devin Booker before them, they found success sprinting off screens, spacing to the corners, playing out of handoffs and occasionally making something happen in pick-and-roll. It's not a fault of Coach Cal's, this is how Kentucky teams overloaded with talent win games -- keep it simple for each prospect.

To varying degrees, Herro and Murray are great examples of why it's important to see Kentucky prospects in a variety of settings to evaluate the full package. We saw Herro play more on-ball at the prep level and at USA Basketball camps, so it was realistic to project him as an eventual pick-and-roll player. Murray shouldered more on-ball duties with the Canadian National Team, and you could envision a trajectory where he evolved into a capable facilitator.

Maxey wasn't nearly as prolific or efficient a college player and stands only 6-foot-3. His critics have called him a "small two-guard" when in fact he has a fairly similar set of strengths and weaknesses as two Kentucky guards before him. Maxey also plays much bigger than his height with long arms, broad stride and a physical frame. He has range well-beyond the NBA 3-point line, is comfortable shooting off movement, can rise up in mid-range spots, has great touch and craft around the rim and is a comfortable quick-action passer. And like Herro, Maxey is a scrappy defender who plays with excellent energy. Being able to play off of a passing big like Nikola Jokic and Bam Adebayo will be important to Maxey's early success, but Herro and Murray have proven that scouts should be careful when setting limits for Kentucky guards.



Makes me like him a lot more. Mainly because I didn't know anything about him. If Toppin, Vassell and Haliburton are off the board, I'd take a long look at him. Could come down between him and Kira Lewis.


I like Maxeys' strength and tenacity. If he improves hit efficiency, then perhaps he could be a mix of Pat Beverly ( defensively) and lousy Williams offensively. However, I wouldn't take him at 10 for sure due to my concerns over history shooting percentages and overall lack of playmaking ability ( currently). I would However consider him in a trade back scenario around the early 20s' perhaps though.

But I'd also have Kira Lewis/ Grant Riller/ and Tyrell Terry higher on my board, Due to their elite skillsets/ attributes, and much better percentages? :dontknow: Ultimately, I'd have Lewis before Maxey if it came down to the 2, As it seems Lewis is much better offensively. And his elite speed would create so much gravity for Cam, Booker and Bridges, etc.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1351 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:12 pm

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1352 » by bwgood77 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:52 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:SG | Tyrese Maxey, Kentucky

Both Herro and Murray were labeled "shooters" or "shotmakers" coming out of Kentucky. Somewhat like Devin Booker before them, they found success sprinting off screens, spacing to the corners, playing out of handoffs and occasionally making something happen in pick-and-roll. It's not a fault of Coach Cal's, this is how Kentucky teams overloaded with talent win games -- keep it simple for each prospect.

To varying degrees, Herro and Murray are great examples of why it's important to see Kentucky prospects in a variety of settings to evaluate the full package. We saw Herro play more on-ball at the prep level and at USA Basketball camps, so it was realistic to project him as an eventual pick-and-roll player. Murray shouldered more on-ball duties with the Canadian National Team, and you could envision a trajectory where he evolved into a capable facilitator.

Maxey wasn't nearly as prolific or efficient a college player and stands only 6-foot-3. His critics have called him a "small two-guard" when in fact he has a fairly similar set of strengths and weaknesses as two Kentucky guards before him. Maxey also plays much bigger than his height with long arms, broad stride and a physical frame. He has range well-beyond the NBA 3-point line, is comfortable shooting off movement, can rise up in mid-range spots, has great touch and craft around the rim and is a comfortable quick-action passer. And like Herro, Maxey is a scrappy defender who plays with excellent energy. Being able to play off of a passing big like Nikola Jokic and Bam Adebayo will be important to Maxey's early success, but Herro and Murray have proven that scouts should be careful when setting limits for Kentucky guards.



Makes me like him a lot more. Mainly because I didn't know anything about him. If Toppin, Vassell and Haliburton are off the board, I'd take a long look at him. Could come down between him and Kira Lewis.


I like Maxeys' strength and tenacity. If he improves hit efficiency, then perhaps he could be a mix of Pat Beverly ( defensively) and lousy Williams offensively. However, I wouldn't take him at 10 for sure due to my concerns over history shooting percentages and overall lack of playmaking ability ( currently). I would However consider him in a trade back scenario around the early 20s' perhaps though.

But I'd also have Kira Lewis/ Grant Riller/ and Tyrell Terry higher on my board, Due to their elite skillsets/ attributes, and much better percentages? :dontknow: Ultimately, I'd have Lewis before Maxey if it came down to the 2, As it seems Lewis is much better offensively. And his elite speed would create so much gravity for Cam, Booker and Bridges, etc.


Who is lousy Williams? I'm guessing that is a typo or auto correct but I can't figure out who you are talking about.

I based my post on Mike Schmitz comparison to Jamal Murray and Tyler Herro.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1353 » by bwgood77 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 10:02 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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Interesting to look at his new mock after reading your last post. So in the mock he has:

Kira Lewis Jr. going 20, Tyrese Maxey going 21, Tyrell Terry going 24. and doesn't have Riller at all in the first round.

On his big board, though it is from 8/20, he has Tyrell Terry 9th, Tyrese Maxey, 11th, and Kira Lewis Jr. 16th.

So they are reverse....however, Maxey is close to the top two on both. If you combine the scores to see who has the lowest, you get Maxey at 32 (avg 16), Terry 33 (avg 16.5) and Lewis Jr. at 36 (avg 18).
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1354 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Sep 8, 2020 11:59 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Makes me like him a lot more. Mainly because I didn't know anything about him. If Toppin, Vassell and Haliburton are off the board, I'd take a long look at him. Could come down between him and Kira Lewis.


I like Maxeys' strength and tenacity. If he improves hit efficiency, then perhaps he could be a mix of Pat Beverly ( defensively) and lousy Williams offensively. However, I wouldn't take him at 10 for sure due to my concerns over history shooting percentages and overall lack of playmaking ability ( currently). I would However consider him in a trade back scenario around the early 20s' perhaps though.

But I'd also have Kira Lewis/ Grant Riller/ and Tyrell Terry higher on my board, Due to their elite skillsets/ attributes, and much better percentages? :dontknow: Ultimately, I'd have Lewis before Maxey if it came down to the 2, As it seems Lewis is much better offensively. And his elite speed would create so much gravity for Cam, Booker and Bridges, etc.


Who is lousy Williams? I'm guessing that is a typo or auto correct but I can't figure out who you are talking about.

I based my post on Mike Schmitz comparison to Jamal Murray and Tyler Herro.


Who is lousy Williams?


Yes!!! :lol: Good catch, It was of course a typo. However, I'm sure there were times basketball players with the last name Williams could have worn that moniker well! Perhaps Jonathan Williams or Aaron or Elliot Williams? But all joking aside, Given Maxeys' poor shooting percentages, And high probability of initial success being likely predicated upon his tenacious defense and his secondary value being his propensity to hit big/ timely shots. I just see him closer to Beverly than Jamal Murray orthe much bigger, better shooting but worse defensive Herro.

And for my part, I see the Lou Williams :wink: comparison mainly due to his strength/ creativity in scoring at the rim, Similar to Lou Williams. But I suppose to each their own. Again, I wouldn't mind him for his defensive compliment he'd offer alongside of Booker. But he wouldn't be in my top 3 of guards I'd prefer. I'd much rather prefer someone with greater shooting efficiency, and better or more advanced playmaking skills. Other than his strength of scoring at around the rim and relentless on ball defense, He just seems kind of average in other aspects of his game. :dontknow:

If we really want a Jamal Murray value pick, We can get that in the mid to late 2nd round in Skylar Mays. I mean they're pretty close in most all categories, have nearly identical size, weight, athleticism. and similar sneaky athleticism, And the ability to hit big shots and go off offensively too. And both utilize an advanced and crafty ball handling skillset to score easily.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=skylar-mays--jamal-murray

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.grizzlybearblues.com/platform/amp/2020/6/10/21286097/2020-nba-draft-profiles-skylar-mays-memphis-grizzlies-lsu-tigers


And if we want a Duncan Robinson on the cheap, We can get that too in the 2nd round on a minimal contract in Cory Kispert ( IF he remains in the draft). I'm still curious if there's anything to that Matt Babcock report though of these prospects doing predraft workouts in Phoenix.

Matt Babcock (@MattBabcock11) Tweeted:
After going six months without traveling, I made a trip to Phoenix, Arizona to see NBA prospects Naji Marshall, Ty-Shon Alexander, and Josh Hall. I shared my takeaways from those workouts in this article. Take a look!
Read on Twitter
?s=20

I wonder a bit if it was entirely random? Or if Jones and the Suns front office are being cryptic and secretive. But apparently Babcock mentions that these prospects were working out against NBA pros.
- Naji Marshall.
- Tyshon Alexander.
- Josh Hall.
I'm intrigued by this because if it's the suns intent to work them out, Then perhaps it would give them a glimpse into their possible draft strategy and plans. Also remembering what you said a while back Bwgood, In that Sarver would likely consider a trade back scenario, And 2nd round picks would be cheaper and more cost effective after all. And I think that's definitely something that would excite "Saver" :wink: If he's actually looking to potentially cut cost? :dontknow:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1355 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Sep 9, 2020 12:02 am

Kevin O'Connor (@KevinOConnorNBA) Tweeted:
Multiple team executives told me this past week they expect the NBA draft to take place in the middle of November.

Teams would still like to have some sort of NBA Combine. Pushing the draft date creates more time for a combine after the NBA Finals. It’s all TBD though.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1356 » by bwgood77 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 12:12 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
I like Maxeys' strength and tenacity. If he improves hit efficiency, then perhaps he could be a mix of Pat Beverly ( defensively) and lousy Williams offensively. However, I wouldn't take him at 10 for sure due to my concerns over history shooting percentages and overall lack of playmaking ability ( currently). I would However consider him in a trade back scenario around the early 20s' perhaps though.

But I'd also have Kira Lewis/ Grant Riller/ and Tyrell Terry higher on my board, Due to their elite skillsets/ attributes, and much better percentages? :dontknow: Ultimately, I'd have Lewis before Maxey if it came down to the 2, As it seems Lewis is much better offensively. And his elite speed would create so much gravity for Cam, Booker and Bridges, etc.


Who is lousy Williams? I'm guessing that is a typo or auto correct but I can't figure out who you are talking about.

I based my post on Mike Schmitz comparison to Jamal Murray and Tyler Herro.


Who is lousy Williams?


Yes!!! :lol: Good catch, It was of course a typo. However, I'm sure there were times basketball players with the last name Williams could have worn that moniker well! Perhaps Jonathan Williams or Aaron or Elliot Williams? But all joking aside, Given Maxeys' poor shooting percentages, And high probability of initial success being likely predicated upon his tenacious defense and his secondary value being his propensity to hit big/ timely shots. I just see him closer to Beverly than Jamal Murray orthe much bigger, better shooting but worse defensive Herro.

And for my part, I see the Lou Williams :wink: comparison mainly due to his strength/ creativity in scoring at the rim, Similar to Lou Williams. But I suppose to each their own. Again, I wouldn't mind him for his defensive compliment he'd offer alongside of Booker. But he wouldn't be in my top 3 of guards I'd prefer. I'd much rather prefer someone with greater shooting efficiency, and better or more advanced playmaking skills. Other than his strength of scoring at around the rim and relentless on ball defense, He just seems kind of average in other aspects of his game. :dontknow:

If we really want a Jamal Murray value pick, We can get that in the mid to late 2nd round in Skylar Mays. I mean they're pretty close in most all categories, have nearly identical size, weight, athleticism. and similar sneaky athleticism, And the ability to hit big shots and go off offensively too. And both utilize an advanced and crafty ball handling skillset to score easily.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=skylar-mays--jamal-murray

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.grizzlybearblues.com/platform/amp/2020/6/10/21286097/2020-nba-draft-profiles-skylar-mays-memphis-grizzlies-lsu-tigers


And if we want a Duncan Robinson on the cheap, We can get that too in the 2nd round on a minimal contract in Cory Kispert ( IF he remains in the draft). I'm still curious if there's anything to that Matt Babcock report though of these prospects doing predraft workouts in Phoenix.

Matt Babcock (@MattBabcock11) Tweeted:
After going six months without traveling, I made a trip to Phoenix, Arizona to see NBA prospects Naji Marshall, Ty-Shon Alexander, and Josh Hall. I shared my takeaways from those workouts in this article. Take a look!
Read on Twitter
?s=20

I wonder a bit if it was entirely random? Or if Jones and the Suns front office are being cryptic and secretive. But apparently Babcock mentions that these prospects were working out against NBA pros.
- Naji Marshall.
- Tyshon Alexander.
- Josh Hall.
I'm intrigued by this because if it's the suns intent to work them out, Then perhaps it would give them a glimpse into their possible draft strategy and plans. Also remembering what you said a while back Bwgood, In that Sarver would likely consider a trade back scenario, And 2nd round picks would be cheaper and more cost effective after all. And I think that's definitely something that would excite "Saver" :wink: If he's actually looking to potentially cut cost? :dontknow:


His shooting #s compare to RJ Hampton. Though Maxey has a good FT% which bodes well for being able to fix the shooting. Hampton's non shooting #s are great. At 6'5, he averages per 36, 6.8 reb, 4.2 ast, 1.9 steals and .6 blocks. I'm going to ask clyde21 on the draft board why he has him #1...I think it's him and Okongwu in his tier 1. Though he is very strong opinions which are often wrong. He thought Bol Bol was one of the best prospects last year. He was higher on Zion than probably anyone...is still higher on him than anyone. His favorite in the previous draft was Bamba.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#1357 » by cberry78 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 12:27 am

Kerrsed wrote:Image

Fun fact about our new assistant coach: He signed with Maccabi Tel Aviv in 2014.......where a 14 year old was signed a year earlier. That kid has spent the past 6 years with the team and is currently rated as a top 5 pick in this years draft.

Image

Yes, 3× Israeli League champion (2018–2020) and the 2020 Israeli League MVP Deni Avdija spent years with our new assistant coach.

Is this Deni's way of saying: "I will only sign with the Suns."?
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#1358 » by sunskerr » Wed Sep 9, 2020 12:33 am

Kerrsed wrote:Fun fact about our new assistant coach: He signed with Maccabi Tel Aviv in 2014.......where a 14 year old was signed a year earlier. That kid has spent the past 6 years with the team and is currently rated as a top 5 pick in this years draft.


Yes, 3× Israeli League champion (2018–2020) and the 2020 Israeli League MVP Deni Avdija spent years with our new assistant coach.


Great, so we will then completely ignore this guy in the draft and instead during a time when traditional bigs are becoming obsolete, draft a 7 footer with nowhere near as much skill who cant create his own shot, let alone even dribble a basketball.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#1359 » by Revived » Wed Sep 9, 2020 12:33 am

Kerrsed wrote:Image

Fun fact about our new assistant coach: He signed with Maccabi Tel Aviv in 2014.......where a 14 year old was signed a year earlier. That kid has spent the past 6 years with the team and is currently rated as a top 5 pick in this years draft.

Image

Yes, 3× Israeli League champion (2018–2020) and the 2020 Israeli League MVP Deni Avdija spent years with our new assistant coach.

Holy crap you’re finally back?! You missed a great bubble man....so many opportunities for memes too.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#1360 » by matt131 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 12:45 am

Kerrsed wrote:Image

Fun fact about our new assistant coach: He signed with Maccabi Tel Aviv in 2014.......where a 14 year old was signed a year earlier. That kid has spent the past 6 years with the team and is currently rated as a top 5 pick in this years draft.

Image

Yes, 3× Israeli League champion (2018–2020) and the 2020 Israeli League MVP Deni Avdija spent years with our new assistant coach.
He's the one with a free throw percentage of like 56%? I'm pretty sure his three point shot is not that great either. Doesn't seem like a james jones guy, but I guess we have a small sample size of what moves he will make to build a team.

Seems to be a good playmaker and defender, so that's always good to have. If he could improve his shot (seems tough with that free throw percentage), he could be really good

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