2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch - Revised Poll

[Ghost of Kleine]

On the nba Draft board Phoenix is on the clock. It would be great to have some Suns fans add their input. Ill probably move on to San Antonio tomorrow around midnight west coast time.

Well, As the poll suggests, The majority of us would love to take these players in this sequence if at all possible.

1- Toppin.
2- Vassell.
3- Haliburton.
4- Hayes.
5- Jalen Smith or Kira Lewis.
But IF both Toppin and Vassell were still on the board at 10, I'd have to believe that we'd go with Vassell. Although it'd be neck n' neck.

[sunsbg]

On the nba Draft board Phoenix is on the clock. It would be great to have some Suns fans add their input. Ill probably move on to San Antonio tomorrow around midnight west coast time.

Well, As the poll suggests, The majority of us would love to take these players in this sequence if at all possible.

1- Toppin.
2- Vassell.
3- Haliburton.
4- Hayes.
5- Jalen Smith or Kira Lewis.
But IF both Toppin and Vassell were still on the board at 10, I'd have to believe that we'd go with Vassell. Although it'd be neck n' neck.

If Vassell is so close to Mikal skill-wise I don't see the rationale about taking him instead of Toppin. Vassell looks more a SG though, so not sure why I see this comparison so often.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

And

Read on Twitter

?s=09

*** Also Bams' and D Howard's impact with his tenacity, versatility, toughness. So I guess my point is that the biggest impact the players above are having in the playoffs is mainly due to their elite defensive versatility, Tenacity, disruptive energy, and Physicality. So when we talk about value/ impact, Perhaps we should be targeting the best and most elite/ versatile defenders in the draft to compliment our strong offensive core.

Now obviously at 10, We really hope for Vassell. However, IF for some reason he is already gone, Then a trade back scenario offering more elite defensive positional depth and switchability would offer us the greatest overall value towards being a more legitimate playoff team. Prospects that fit that model for us after 10. And how they compare to those high impact versatile defensive players dominating the playoffs currently.

Achiuwa/ Smith/Perry/Smith/ Adebayo
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=precious-achiuwa--reggie-perry--jalen-smith--bam-adebayo

- All players are fairly comparable in both statistical categories as well as percentages. But J. Smith actually has the best overall advanced metrics of the 5.

Oturu/ Carey/ Azubuike
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=udoka-azubuike--vernon-carey-jr--daniel-oturu

- Now all have very gaudy Double/Double type of numbers. And also 2/3 also have pretty impressive percentages for players their size. And the physicality they can offer ( especially Azubuike) could obviously have a very effective comparable impact to what Howard's impact has been against Denver. Using their size, weight, strength to brutalize the opposing teams and get them into foul trouble early.

Vassell/ Tyler bey/ Okoro
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=tyler-bey--isaac-okoro--devin-vassell

- Both Vassell and T. Bey outperform Okoro ( Top 10 pick) in most statistical categories. But Tyler Bey actually has the best overall statistics and percentages in the majority of categories.


Trevelin Queen/Jimmy Butler
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=trevelin-queen--jimmy-butler

- Queen has better overall percentage and is better in most categories compared to that of Butler in college. What is most impressive is his 2.3 steals and his 3.2 assists. Meaning he can be very disruptive defensively, But he's still productive on offense too.


Tyler Bey/ Vassell/ Jimmy Butler
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=tyler-bey--devin-vassell--jimmy-butler

- Both Vassell and Bey project better statistically in the majority of categories over what Butler showed in college. Also, If you compare:

Josh Richardson/ Trevelin Queen
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=trevelin-queen--josh-richardson

- You'll find that Queen is pretty much better in most statistical categories too. Now again, I mention these particular prospects outside of the top 10, Because of their comparable/ projectable elite defensive potential, versatility and disruptive defensive potential that can offer us a great impact at a lower cost than what's in the lottery. Tyler Bey and/ or Trevelin Queen with their elite defensive versatility on the perimeter. Jalen Smith/ Precious Achiuwa for their frontcourt defense, rebounding, rim protection, energy and tenacity they'd offer. But with Achiuwa, He can actually guard 1-5. And T Bey can guard 1-4 and occasionally the 5 ( in small ball situations. Lastly, Reggie Perry for his size ( very comparable to Adebayo), his advanced ballhandling skills and his playmaking potential and relentless motor and rebounding compare pretty favorably to Adebayo. He just needs to improve his rim protection more.

So these are all high potential versatile prospects with unique elite skillsets and potential versatility. Great considerations for value.

[Ghost of Kleine]

On the nba Draft board Phoenix is on the clock. It would be great to have some Suns fans add their input. Ill probably move on to San Antonio tomorrow around midnight west coast time.

Well, As the poll suggests, The majority of us would love to take these players in this sequence if at all possible.

1- Toppin.
2- Vassell.
3- Haliburton.
4- Hayes.
5- Jalen Smith or Kira Lewis.
But IF both Toppin and Vassell were still on the board at 10, I'd have to believe that we'd go with Vassell. Although it'd be neck n' neck.

If Vassell is so close to Mikal skill-wise I don't see the rationale about taking him instead of Toppin. Vassell looks more a SG though, so not sure why I see this comparison so often.

I believe that the comparison is most often made due to their similar size, measurements and disruptive defensive abilities. But Vassell actually has a much higher offensive upside/ trajectory than what Bridges currently possesses. So therein lies the fascination. That, and the potential impact of having two potentially elite lockdown perimeter defenders on each wing causing havoc.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

Mike Schmidtz breakdown on Devin Vassell.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

I'm definitely very intrigued by Okoro and his disruptive defensive potential as a point of attack isolation defender. Could he be a great defensive compliment to Booker? Or is he more likely to be Josh Jackson 2.0???

[Walt_Uoob]

I'm increasingly homing in on Halliburton as the guy I hope we walk out of the draft with. Seems like a Jonesy pick given his maturity and well-rounded game, and he just seems like a seamless fit into what we're doing on the court. He can be pretty similar to Rubio in that he's a steadying influence, excellent team defender, and offensive floor general type who can distribute the ball without taking too many shots himself. And with more length and better catch-and-shoot ability, he could end up being an even better fit than Rubio with Booker and Ayton in the long run. AND in the meantime he seems versatile enough to play alongside either of our starting guards, thus helping with our current backup SG and future starting PG situations simultaneously.

But it sounds like we'd probably have to trade up to get him. I'd personally probably do #10 and our 2022 first to move up to the 3-7 range if necessary, since our 2022 pick should be well outside the lottery.

If we can't get Halliburton, there's no one else I'd really want to trade up for (definitely not into the Oubre and #10 for #2 idea), so I'll get on board with whatever the FO decides at #10. Still intrigued by several of the guys who might "fall" to us and some of the guys we might "reach" for (e.g. Riller). Jones has earned the benefit of the doubt from me in that respect.

I just wish the draft was coming up sooner!

[WeekapaugGroove]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

I'm definitely very intrigued by Okoro and his disruptive defensive potential as a point of attack isolation defender. Could he be a great defensive compliment to Booker? Or is he more likely to be Josh Jackson 2.0???

He's one of the harder guys for me to have an opinion on. Like I love the things he does well and I do see value in a big strong wing to take on some the real elite guys you face in a playoff series.

But I'm always down on wings with shooting issues and especially for this suns team where having shooters with Ayton and Booker just makes their lives so so much easier.

Probably won't matter though since I'd be pretty surprised if he's there at 10. In a draft void of superstar types I think some team early rolls the dice on him and hopes to teach him to shoot.

Patrick Williams is another guy somewhat in this mold but a little bigger and with a little more projectable shot. I do find him very intriguing.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[Kerrsed]

So ive been spending time researching draft prospects and i have to say ive really opened up on Cole Anthony.

He has that NBA pedigree. Everything i have seen/read says he is a very hard worker and willing to put the time and effort into bettering his craft. Was an absolute stud in HS (#2 in the country only behind Wiseman), and got there due to his skills and not due to his size (Like SF/PF/C tend to do to dominate their much undersized competition in HS). MVP damn near every where he has played (McDonald's All-American Game MVP (2019), Jordan Brand Classic MVP (2019), Nike Hoop Summit MVP (2019), EYBL MVP and Defensive Player of the Year). Had a great start in college until he went down to injury (Partially torn meniscus in his right knee), and came back 5 weeks later and was still balling.

I think his biggest issue in college was that he had horrible horrible teammates. When watching video on him, you can see the skills are there and are on point, but his teammates really really let him down. He went from averaging a triple double in HS to only 4 assists per game in college, but when you look at his teammates at NC its easy to see why. Because of this issue it caused him to try to take on more himself, resulting in an increase in bad shot selection and his percentages dropping.

Now im not saying he should be the pick, as there are other players i would definitely draft before him, just saying i wouldnt be upset if we did.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

I'm definitely very intrigued by Okoro and his disruptive defensive potential as a point of attack isolation defender. Could he be a great defensive compliment to Booker? Or is he more likely to be Josh Jackson 2.0???

He's one of the harder guys for me to have an opinion on. Like I love the things he does well and I do see value in a big strong wing to take on some the real elite guys you face in a playoff series.

But I'm always down on wings with shooting issues and especially for this suns team where having shooters with Ayton and Booker just makes their lives so so much easier.

Probably won't matter though since I'd be pretty surprised if he's there at 10. In a draft void of superstar types I think some team early rolls the dice on him and hopes to teach him to shoot.

Patrick Williams is another guy somewhat in this mold but a little bigger and with a little more projectable shot. I do find him very intriguing.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah! I absolutely love his defense, relentless disruptive energy, and his top shelf athleticism. But his shooting issues really make me cringe. I think I could only be on board with him IF he fell to us at 10, IF we were able to secure David Nurse to work with him constantly on his shooting, along with Maybe Booker and Cam too!
Otherwise, I keep getting these Josh Jackson vibes!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

Again, To put into perspective just how elite Rillers' potential and skillset is:

Read on Twitter

?s=09

To put into perspective just how special Riller is as an around-the-rim scorer, here’s a list of players 6’4” and shorter since 2008 to shoot 70% at the basket on 200 attempts in one season (a feat that Riller accomplished as a junior):

Again, lots of high Assisted% guys. The players with less than 20% of their attempts assisted are Trae Young, Nate Wolters, De’Aaron Fox, and Riller. Riller shot nearly 20% better than Young and Wolters at the rim, so the only real point of comparison here is De’Aaron Fox.

What also separates Riller from other mid-major guards is his how efficient he was given his high usage rate. Here's a list of players between 6’ and 6’5” with a usage rate greater or equal to 32 and a true shooting percentage greater or equal to 60:

Definitely a good reminder of why he should absolutely be a primary consideration for us, EVEN at the 10th pick. Unless we are completely certain that we can still get him in a trade back scenario too.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

[cberry78]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

Again, To put into perspective just how elite Rillers' potential and skillset is:

Read on Twitter

?s=09

To put into perspective just how special Riller is as an around-the-rim scorer, here’s a list of players 6’4” and shorter since 2008 to shoot 70% at the basket on 200 attempts in one season (a feat that Riller accomplished as a junior):

Again, lots of high Assisted% guys. The players with less than 20% of their attempts assisted are Trae Young, Nate Wolters, De’Aaron Fox, and Riller. Riller shot nearly 20% better than Young and Wolters at the rim, so the only real point of comparison here is De’Aaron Fox.

What also separates Riller from other mid-major guards is his how efficient he was given his high usage rate. Here's a list of players between 6’ and 6’5” with a usage rate greater or equal to 32 and a true shooting percentage greater or equal to 60:

Definitely a good reminder of why he should absolutely be a primary consideration for us, EVEN at the 10th pick. Unless we are completely certain that we can still get him in a trade back scenario too.

I'm kinda worried about Riller's #'s against tougher competition, coming from a small school. I started looking at his games the last 2 years and it seems that his worst games are against stiffer competition...and that's just going to get worse in the NBA.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

Read on Twitter

?s=09

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

Again, To put into perspective just how elite Rillers' potential and skillset is:

Read on Twitter

?s=09

To put into perspective just how special Riller is as an around-the-rim scorer, here’s a list of players 6’4” and shorter since 2008 to shoot 70% at the basket on 200 attempts in one season (a feat that Riller accomplished as a junior):

Again, lots of high Assisted% guys. The players with less than 20% of their attempts assisted are Trae Young, Nate Wolters, De’Aaron Fox, and Riller. Riller shot nearly 20% better than Young and Wolters at the rim, so the only real point of comparison here is De’Aaron Fox.

What also separates Riller from other mid-major guards is his how efficient he was given his high usage rate. Here's a list of players between 6’ and 6’5” with a usage rate greater or equal to 32 and a true shooting percentage greater or equal to 60:

Definitely a good reminder of why he should absolutely be a primary consideration for us, EVEN at the 10th pick. Unless we are completely certain that we can still get him in a trade back scenario too.

I'm kinda worried about Riller's #'s against tougher competition, coming from a small school. I started looking at his games the last 2 years and it seems that his worst games are against stiffer competition...and that's just going to get worse in the NBA.

I hear you man!

And it definitely could be a legitimate concern, But with respect to that concern, About how many times/ how often during these games was he trapped, double teamed or triple teamed would you guesstimate? I for my part see instances of potential causality here. In college he had the burden of shouldering the majority of the offensive load for his team. He really didn't have much additional help at all unfortunately. Now of course the better teams/ coaches in the higher tier conferences will identify this as a key mismatch opportunity. And strategize around this issue and focus solely on stopping Riller.

So as a result of then being the primary focus of opposing defenses with little additional support or secondary options, I'd expect him to struggle more. But in the NBA, He'll have plenty of options to defer to or to help shoulder the offensive burden. Also there should be greater spacing. And with the higher level of talent, opposing teams won't be able to key in on him as often, Because there'll be other options drawing defensive gravity from him. So I'm not too overtly concerned with his anticipated struggles in those situations. I just see it as a result of his circumstances at Charleston for my part.

And IF we can get him later in the first or even early 2nd round in a trade back scenario, Then the chances that his value will outweigh his potential risk increase even more for us. He'll become an even lower risk / high reward consideration I believe.

[RunDogGun]

If we had drafted Clarke last year, I would be all for a wing in this draft. I keep leaning towards Smith. Good motor, hard worker, and humble. His rebounding and shot blocking are needs for our front court, and he has range to the three. For me, the only knock is his thin frame.

[Ghost of Kleine]

If we had drafted Clarke last year, I would be all for a wing in this draft. I keep leaning towards Smith. Good motor, hard worker, and humble. His rebounding and shot blocking are needs for our front court, and he has range to the three. For me, the only knock is his thin frame.

I'd have to say that I definitely agree with you man.
After Toppin and maybe equal to Okungwu on my big board. Jalen Smith is my primary choice for a 3 and D big man option at 10. Followed by Precious Achiuwa, Paul Reed , Jaden McDaniels, Reggie Perry, Killian Tillie. But definitely, IF Toppin or Okungwu is not there at 10, I'm choosing Jalen Smith as my power forward option.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

So this latest mock by Jonathan Wasserman has Hayes falling to us at 10.

10. Phoenix Suns:

Killian Hayes (Ratiopharm Ulm, PG, 2001)

Watch on YouTube

Without an obvious contributor for their 2021 playoff run at No. 10, the Phoenix Suns could look toward the future with Killian Hayes, arguably the top long-term prospect available and a strong future replacement for Ricky Rubio. 

Phoenix is also a favorable landing spot for Hayes, whose big weakness is three-point shooting. Devin Booker, Deandre Ayton, Mikal Bridges and Cameron Johnson would enjoy the point guard’s pick-and-roll passing skills and ability to manipulate defenses with hesitations and look-aways. 

There is ultimately a path for Hayes to emerge as the class’ top ball-handler if his finishing efficiency translates and his jump shot continues to improve. Between his playmaking, shot-creation, touch and signs of defensive awareness, he’s more well-rounded than Ball and Haliburton.

I gotta say, I wouldn't at all be disappointed IF Hayes somehow actually fell to us at 10. Maybe draft Hayes at 10, Then purchase a mid to late first round pick for Jalen Smith or Precious Achiuwa or Paul Reed? Lastly, Sign one of Sam Merrill/ Isiah Joe/ or Naji Marshall and then run it back?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=0

All in all, Very interesting trade proposals. Having said that though, I really don't see any of these trades as being remotely realistic in terms of value or investment potential. Still intriguing perspectives though. And admittedly
I really only have interest in the Phoenix portion of the trade personally. So here it is:

1) Phoenix and Boston swap picks. 

PHX gets: 14th pick (Saddiq Bey) & 26th pick (Desmond Bane)

BOS gets: 10th pick (Onyeka Okongwu)

The Suns and Celtics made a draft-day trade last season, and here's another one that could make sense especially if a certain someone drops to number 10 for Boston and the board shakes out in a way the Suns don't enjoy. 

The reason Phoenix looks to move this pick is because on this draft night, the board shook out in a worst case scenario with all of Hayes, Vassell, Okoro, and Haliburton off the board. The Suns wound up with two of the best shooters in the draft in Saddiq Bey and Desmond Bane and keep the new regime's status quo of drafting older NBA-ready prospects that can shoot lights out and play hard on both ends. 

Boston lucks out and fills their need at center with Okongwu falling into their laps after a somewhat shocking drop, so Danny Ainge picked up that phone and hit James Jones up immediately. Adding Okongwu to a core that features Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Kemba Walker, Grant Williams(!), Gordon Hayward and Daniel Theis would give the Celtics one of the most complete teams from top-to-bottom in the entire association. They also wound up selecting Tyler Bey 30th overall to further strengthen their defensive upside and versatile wing depth.

Overall I love this trade for both sides given the circumstances of how the first nine picks went.

For my part, I don't see any way the suns would give up Okungwu in a trade back scenario IF he actually fell to us when considering our frontcourt / rim protection deficiencies!

And Although I actually DO like the idea of getting both Saddiq Bey and Desmond Bane, I again just don't see us giving up the 10th pick IF Okungwu was there. His upside is simply too high to pass on there. To give up on Okungwus' upside/ impact/ near perfect defensive fit alongside of Ayton, Boston would need to up the value a bit more honestly, As we could just as easily purchase or trade for an additional pick if we choose to. Still an interesting premise though. Other more solid trade options could be:
1- Phoenix/ Philly
The 10th pick for Josh Richardson/* Ryan Broekhoff */ 21st/ 36th picks.

- Richardson becomes the backup 2/3.
- Ryan Broekhoff ( Replaces Jerome) * Jerome to G league.
21- Tyler Bey.
36- Daniel Oturu or Xavier Tillman.

2- Phoenix/ Brooklyn
The 10th pick/ 2022 2nd/ for Dinwiddie/ Claxton/ 19th pick.
- Dinwiddie ( Becomes backup guard).
- Claxton ( Replaces Kaminsky). 3rd string 4/5.
19- Draft Tyler Bey ( replace Diallo). 3rd string switchable wing defender ( 1-5)like a Roberson/ Thybulle.
** Buy a 2nd for Reggie Perry or Daniel Oturu?

3- Phoenix/ Boston (A more appropriate value assessment)
The 10th pick/ Diallo for Poirier/ 14/ 26/ 30.
We'll take back Poirier to help offer cap relief ( **And for the 30th pick too). Poirier actually has pretty good PER 36 numbers And now we can draft:
14- Draft Kira Lewis or Grant Riller or Cole Anthony. ( Replaces Okobos' rotation spot).
26- Desmond Bane. ( Replaces Ty Jeromes' rotation spot. ( Jerome moves to G league for further development).
30- Paul Reed. ( Replaces Kaminskys' rotation spot).

** Poirier ( Baynes insurance)? 3rd string center with Saric moving to backup center IF Baynes leaves.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09