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2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22, Kerrsed

If the Suns Traded Oubre/#10 to GS for #2 and MIN selected Edwards, who is your pick at #2?

Ball
9
28%
Toppin
9
28%
Okongwu
3
9%
Avdija
4
13%
Wiseman
1
3%
Haliburtion
3
9%
Hayes
1
3%
OTHER
2
6%
 
Total votes: 32

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1781 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:54 pm

Jonathan Wasserman (@NBADraftWass) Tweeted:
More Tyrese Haliburton shooting drills that include some speciality shots off the dribble. Elevates little higher on midrange dribble jumpers to separate. Rarely took them at ISU.

Shot 49% on catch-n-shoots. Not much windup/dip, manages to just push it from where he catches https://t.co/BHTvLtogKz
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1782 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:34 pm

Zona (@AZSportsZone) Tweeted:
It’s finally here!

‘Phoenix Suns Mock Offseason 1.0’ is live. The first of many this offseason. Hope you all enjoy.

RTs are appreciated. Consider subscribing to my Patreon if you can, goal is to hit 20 before the NBA Draft. Unlocked for all. Thanks!https://t.co/3MluVQFcm3 https://t.co/Y0KMqJUgSY
Read on Twitter
?s=20
Spoiler:
Zona Hoops

OCT 16, 2020 AT 9:01 AM

Phoenix Suns Mock Offseason 1.0

Hello everyone, I am very excited to launch this series over the course of the offseason where I will play out several scenarios of what the Phoenix Suns could potentially do this offseason.

Before we get started please read these disclaimers:

1)  I am not a cap expert by any means, but did my best using my current knowledge of the salary cap along with the resources available to ensure everything done here is both possible and realistic. Also shoutout to my guy David Nash for giving it a gander before launch. Check out and subscribe to his newsletter while you're here.

2)  This is NOT entirely what I would do if I were in charge per se, rather this is me giving you a taste of what an actual offseason could look like given what we know/have read about the plans for this offseason. I will eventually conduct one where I’ll do what I would do if I were the GM in a perfect world. This is not going to be that, although I'm pleased with how it turned out.

3)  There will be a few more of these mock offseasons, covering various approaches and possibilities. I plan on the next one being a bit wilder and far less conservative than this approach.

Continuity: (kaan·tuh·noo·uh·tee)- “a state of stability and the absence of disruption.”

This particular mock offseason will be filed under “the one where (mostly) everyone stays” as the focus will be keeping the continuity (for once) while improving the bench and overall roster depth in the process.

The salary cap for this exercise will be set at $109,140,000 as an estimate of what the salary cap will be for next season. It was originally slated to be $115,000,000 but due to COVID-19 and the losses that ensued, it’s been rumored that they will keep it at $109 million, which is what the cap was a season ago.

We’ll start with the NBA Draft since that takes place before free agency. This is just an estimation of what I think the board could shape up to be, obviously a trade at the top would shake everything up in a ripple effect, so don’t hold too much weight into what mock drafts look like at this stage from anybody, though they are always fun. I also threw in a couple minor and realistic trades for fun.

Pre-Free Agency Trades:

Suns and Celtics draft day swap:
- PHX: 14th pick, 26th pick.
- BOS: 10th pick.

Boston and Phoenix made a draft-day trade last year, and this one makes even more sense for both sides as the Celtics land Okongwu after his surprising drop and Phoenix gets back two picks to use to address other areas of need while still getting “their guys”.

Phoenix and Detroit make minor deal (pre-FA):
- PHX: 2021 2nd round pick (via LAL).

- DET: Ty Jerome.

This just clears the guard logjam and gives Phoenix a bit of salary relief in the process. The Lakers 2nd round pick figures to be in the 55-60 range next year, so it’s not much of an asset for Detroit to unload while they take a gamble on someone taken in the 1st round a year ago. Win-win.

Suns, Wiz complete blockbuster (pre-FA):
- PHX: 2023 2nd round pick (via CHI).

- WSH: Jalen Lecque, 2023 2nd round pick (PHX).

Lecque signed with Klutch, the Suns sold their G League affiliate and the guard logjam still needs to be cleared with the direction this offseason is headed towards. Much like the Jerome deal (Lecque probably has less value) it's not a needle mover, and essentially a pick swap & salary dump. Who knows what the value of those picks will be by then. This is just a small salary dump at the end of the day and way for the Wizards to gain a project they might find intriguing for next to nothing

Mock Draft:
1.  MIN- Anthony Edwards.
2.  GSW- Isaac Okoro.
3.  CHA- James Wiseman.
4.  CHI- LaMelo Ball.
5.  CLE- Deni Avdija.
6.  ATL- Devin Vassell.
7.  DET- Obi Toppin.
8. NYK- Killian Hayes.
9. WSH- Tyrese Haliburton.
10. BOS (via PHX)- Onyeka Okongwu.
11. SAN- Patrick Williams.
12. SAC- Precious Achiuwa.
13. NOP- RJ Hampton.
14. PHX- Aaron Nesmith.
15. ORL- Cole Anthony.
16. POR- Saddiq Bey.
17. MIN- Jalen Smith.
18. DAL- Josh Green.
19. BKN- Tyrese Maxey.
20. MIA- Kira Lewis Jr.
21. PHI- Tyrell Terry.
22. DEN- Aleksej Pokusevski.
23. UTH- Theo Maledon.
24. MIL- Malachi Flynn.
25. OKC- Jaden McDaniels.
26. PHX (via BOS)- Desmond Bane.
27. NYK- Leandro Bolmaro.
28. LAL- Tre Jones.
29. TOR- Grant Riller.
30. BOS- Tyler Bey.

14th pick’s rookie scale contract: $3,458,400.

26th pick’s rookie scale contract: $2,035,800.

Aaron Nesmith and Desmond Bane are two of the best shooters in the entire class, and both fit the exact mold of being a “James Jones guy”. While I wouldn’t take Nesmith 14th overall personally, it’s something I could see the Suns doing as they continue to look to improve their shooting, and the success Cam Johnson had could lead towards them making a similar "type" of pick, although I think Johnson is a superior prospect to Nesmith. Bane at 26 overall would more than make up for it, though there’s a shot he may not be there if a team in the early 20’s falls in love with him. Tough to tell what his exact range will be, but this outcome ain't too shabby overall given how the draft board shook out.

UDFA Signing “Two-way contract”
Suns sign-
Freddie Gillespie, F/C- Baylor.

Gillespie is actually one of my favorite undrafted free agent targets for the Suns, so this is the part where I’ll step in and take over as GM and sign one of my top targets. He is a defensive anchor with a high IQ and (nearly) has a ridiculous plus-nine (9!) wingspan. A high motor big that understands how to play defense at a high level and can finish well around the rim will always have a home in the NBA. At the very least, he can serve as useful depth behind Ayton and Baynes and hopefully eventually be developed into a viable backup center.

He averaged 9.6 PPG, 9.0 RPG, 2.2 BPG, 1.1 SPG while anchoring arguably the best defense in the country last season at Baylor.

Draft class:
Aaron Nesmith, Desmond Bane, Freddie Gillespie

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guaranteed Contracts (after draft):
- Devin Booker- $29,467,800 million.
- Ricky Rubio- $17,000,000 million.
- Kelly Oubre Jr.- $14,375,000 million.
- Deandre Ayton- $10,018,200 million.
- Mikal Bridges- $4,359,000 million.
- Cameron Johnson- $4,235,160 million.
- Aaron Nesmith- $3,458,400.
- Desmond Bane- $2,035,800.
- *Cameron Payne- $1,937,01.
- Freddie Gillespie- TBD

Total: $86,886,371

Total including cap holds: $109,514,125 (over the cap)

Cap Holds/QO’s:
- Dario Saric (RFA)- $10,445,958 cap hold.
($5 million QO)
- Aron Baynes (UFA)- $10,361,232 cap hold.
- Jevon Carter (RFA)- $1,820,564 cap hold.($1,820,564 QO)
- Tariq Owens- (RFA)- $1,549,812 cap hold.($1,549,812 QO)

Club Option Decisions:
*Pick up Cameron Payne’s $1,977,011 club option.
- Decline Frank Kaminsky’s $5,005,350 million club option.
- Decline Cheick Diallo’s $1,824,003 million club option.
- Waive Elie Okobo before deadline, taking his non-guaranteed contract off the books.
- Decline to extend qualifying offer to Tariq Owens.

Cap Hold Decisions
Use the cap holds of Dario Saric, Aron Baynes and Jevon Carter to go “over the cap” to your benefit by allowing yourself to use both the MLE ($9,258,000) and the BAE ($3,623,000) to add two more quality players to the roster in addition to retaining those three. This would require owner Rob Sarver to dip into his pockets a bit, and essentially enables them to keep these three without them counting against the cap sheets for next season. This is how good teams build and keep depth intact for playoff runs. You have to spend to win.

Extensions (1+1 szn)
- Extend Jevon Carter to a 2 yr./$7.0 million deal. ($3,645,833 mil. year 1, $3,354,167 mil. year 2) *Year 2 team option.
- Extend Dario Saric to a 2 yr./$23.0 million deal. ($11,979,167 mil. year 1, $11,020,833 mil. year 2) *Year 2 team option.
- Extend Aron Baynes to a 2 yr./ $21.0 million deal. ($10,937,500 mil. year 1, $10,062,500 mil. year 2) *Year 2 team option.

I like going this route for flexibility. Overpay year one for all three of these guys, and decide if you want cap space next summer or if they've played up to their contract and are worth keeping around. It also keeps them temporarily content by getting far more money in year one than they would anywhere else on the open market, though they'd be sacrificing potential long-term security. It's a tough call for players and their agents during these unprecedented times, but staying in the same state you (and your family) are presumably familiar with or accustomed to should hold some value.

Free Agent Signings

Mid-level exception: (MLE) $9,258,000- 5% annual raises (4 year max)

*Teams that are over the salary cap and under the luxury tax threshold get to use this exception.

Bi-Annual Exception (BAE): $3,623,000 million- 5% annual raises (2 year max)

*Teams get to use this exception just as it sounds—biannually, meaning every other year. Given Phoenix didn’t use it last season, they are eligible for it this season.

Mid-level exception:

D.J. Augustin- 2 yr./$18.9 mil.

Year 1: $9,258,000 Year 2: $9,720,900

Bi-Annual Exception:

Bryn Forbes- 2yr./$7.4 mil.

Year 1: $3,623,000 Year 2: $3,804,150

Contracts for next season:
- Devin Booker- $29,467,800 million.
- Ricky Rubio- $17,000,000 million.
- Kelly Oubre Jr.- $14,375,000 million.
- Dario Saric- $11,979,167 million.
-Aron Baynes- $10,937,500 million.
- Deandre Ayton- $10,018,200 million.
- D.J. Augustin- $9,258,000 million.
- Mikal Bridges- $4,359,000 million.
- Cameron Johnson- $4,235,160 million.
- Jevon Carter- $3,645,833 million.
- Bryn Forbes- $3,623,000 million.
- Aaron Nesmith- $3,458,400
- Desmond Bane- $2,035,800.

- Cam Payne- $1,977,011 million.
- Freddie Gillespie- TBD

Total: ~$126,329,871

Like I said, this requires Rob Sarver opening that wallet a bit. That is a major if, especially given the projected loss of revenue and the amount of capital they invested in the new practice facility and the arena renovations. It would be a hard pill to swallow for him financially for this year, but the beauty of going this route is that they would not at all be tied to a majority of the money they just committed to long-term, and could get off most of it as soon as next year if it’s not a success on the court or if the generated revenue continues to tank league-wide.

Depth Chart:

C: Deandre Ayton / Aron Baynes / Freddie Gillespie

F: Kelly Oubre Jr. / Dario Saric / Aaron Nesmith

F: Mikal Bridges / Cam Johnson / Desmond Bane

G: Devin Booker / Bryn Forbes / Jevon Carter

G Ricky Rubio / D.J. Augustin / Cam Payne

A second unit spearheaded by Aron Baynes and Dario Saric manning the interior and spacing the floor with Cam Johnson and Bryn Forbes serving as snipers from deep while veteran DJ Augustin runs the show? Sounds good to me. If you want a more defense-first approach, or a spark of energy off the bench? Plug in Jevon Carter. Having Cam Payne as your third lead guard gives you an insurance blanket at the position they haven’t had in years. The bubble certainly shouldn’t garner him any guaranteed minutes or a rotation spot, but at the very least I think he (Payne) should be rostered, which is more than I thought about him entering the bubble.

The minutes for Payne, Carter, Bane and even Nesmith would be hard to come by if everyone was healthy in a perfect world, but the reality is injuries happen and rotations shift. It’s a long, grueling season. Then you factor in the day-to-day of foul trouble, blowouts, hot/cold streaks, calculated nights of rest (Rubio, possibly Baynes) and that could open up additional minutes. At the end of the day, you don’t want to rely on any rookies that heavily anyways. The more depth in place, the merrier. Having trouble finding minutes for younger/unproven but talented players is a good thing, even if you are very high on them! I promise you. Just ask Toronto fans these past couple seasons.

This offseason strategy gives you ample cap flexibility if you want it in 21’ with the team options on Saric, Baynes and Carter for next season, plus the expiring contracts of Kelly Oubre Jr. and Cam Payne. Along with the flexibility, it gives you what you so desperately needed last season—bench depth! Oh, and MOST importantly some additional creation in D.J. Augustin to a bench mob that was starved for it last year. Surrounding Augustin with that second unit of absolute marksmen from deep (including Nesmith and Bane) gives them one of the best shooting teams in the NBA from top-to-bottom.

The starters have a +20.2 net rating in 226 minutes by the way. You want the Valley Boyz to run it back and fix what held them back the most last season? Then this is the move. Maybe not with this exact group of players via draft/FA, etc., but this is essentially what the strategy would look like more or less if they are committed to balancing continuity and winning.

What grade would you give this offseason? Comment below or reply to the tweet that brought you here with your thoughts. Thanks for reading.

If you’re craving content similar to this, one of my favorite articles re: Suns Offseason was from my friend David Nash and you should definitely give it a look: Time For Sarver To Put His Money Where His Mouth Is.

Hope you all enjoyed it. Consider subscribing if you can, every bit truly helps. Thanks!


For the record, I like the idea of trading back with Boston for the 14/ 26 picks. But there's no way that I'm being so redundant as to take Nesmith at 14, And then Bane at 27 ( Bane is highly unlikely to even last past the late teens/early 20s' anyways). I'd take Bane or Lewis at 14, And then Tyler Bey or Daniel Oturu or Paul Reed or Reggie Perry at 26. Yes, Shooting is great, But of greater importance, Would be a 3 and D highly versatile, switchable big, and a backup scoring combo guard. Also, adding Forbes in addition to Nesmith and Bane is even more redundant and somewhat pointless. Lastly, I don't see any way that we bring back Baynes at 10 million, AND THEN Saric at 11 million! At best, Saric get an offer of around 6-8 million ( or slightly above the qualifying offer) Otherwise we let him walk. Still, very intriguing and a worthwhile experience. Good job by Zona! :D
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1783 » by Kerrsed » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:51 pm

King4Day wrote:
8. Which prospect-team pairing do you think is a perfect fit?

Schmitz: I love what Tyrese Maxey could become with the Phoenix Suns alongside Devin Booker, Deandre Ayton and Mikal Bridges. The Suns could use another jolt of shot creation and off-ball scoring in the backcourt, and that's exactly what Maxey provides. He is the next Kentucky guard with more on-ball potential than he was able to show at the collegiate ranks given the abundance of talent on the Wildcats' roster.


https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/30120353/new-nba-draft-intel-trade-talk-sleepers-perfect-fits


I just dont see what the Maxey hype is about. Sure, he is a guard from Kentucky, and historically they have transitioned great to the NBA (Except for when they dont), but he is a 6'3 SG that shot below 30% from 3 and below 45% from the field. Lets compare him to another Kentucky SG that was a sleeper pick and under-utilized in college:

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1784 » by bwgood77 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:59 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:Zona (@AZSportsZone) Tweeted:
It’s finally here!

‘Phoenix Suns Mock Offseason 1.0’ is live. The first of many this offseason. Hope you all enjoy.

RTs are appreciated. Consider subscribing to my Patreon if you can, goal is to hit 20 before the NBA Draft. Unlocked for all. Thanks!https://t.co/3MluVQFcm3 https://t.co/Y0KMqJUgSY
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Spoiler:
Zona Hoops

OCT 16, 2020 AT 9:01 AM

Phoenix Suns Mock Offseason 1.0

Hello everyone, I am very excited to launch this series over the course of the offseason where I will play out several scenarios of what the Phoenix Suns could potentially do this offseason.

Before we get started please read these disclaimers:

1)  I am not a cap expert by any means, but did my best using my current knowledge of the salary cap along with the resources available to ensure everything done here is both possible and realistic. Also shoutout to my guy David Nash for giving it a gander before launch. Check out and subscribe to his newsletter while you're here.

2)  This is NOT entirely what I would do if I were in charge per se, rather this is me giving you a taste of what an actual offseason could look like given what we know/have read about the plans for this offseason. I will eventually conduct one where I’ll do what I would do if I were the GM in a perfect world. This is not going to be that, although I'm pleased with how it turned out.

3)  There will be a few more of these mock offseasons, covering various approaches and possibilities. I plan on the next one being a bit wilder and far less conservative than this approach.

Continuity: (kaan·tuh·noo·uh·tee)- “a state of stability and the absence of disruption.”

This particular mock offseason will be filed under “the one where (mostly) everyone stays” as the focus will be keeping the continuity (for once) while improving the bench and overall roster depth in the process.

The salary cap for this exercise will be set at $109,140,000 as an estimate of what the salary cap will be for next season. It was originally slated to be $115,000,000 but due to COVID-19 and the losses that ensued, it’s been rumored that they will keep it at $109 million, which is what the cap was a season ago.

We’ll start with the NBA Draft since that takes place before free agency. This is just an estimation of what I think the board could shape up to be, obviously a trade at the top would shake everything up in a ripple effect, so don’t hold too much weight into what mock drafts look like at this stage from anybody, though they are always fun. I also threw in a couple minor and realistic trades for fun.

Pre-Free Agency Trades:

Suns and Celtics draft day swap:
- PHX: 14th pick, 26th pick.
- BOS: 10th pick.

Boston and Phoenix made a draft-day trade last year, and this one makes even more sense for both sides as the Celtics land Okongwu after his surprising drop and Phoenix gets back two picks to use to address other areas of need while still getting “their guys”.

Phoenix and Detroit make minor deal (pre-FA):
- PHX: 2021 2nd round pick (via LAL).

- DET: Ty Jerome.

This just clears the guard logjam and gives Phoenix a bit of salary relief in the process. The Lakers 2nd round pick figures to be in the 55-60 range next year, so it’s not much of an asset for Detroit to unload while they take a gamble on someone taken in the 1st round a year ago. Win-win.

Suns, Wiz complete blockbuster (pre-FA):
- PHX: 2023 2nd round pick (via CHI).

- WSH: Jalen Lecque, 2023 2nd round pick (PHX).

Lecque signed with Klutch, the Suns sold their G League affiliate and the guard logjam still needs to be cleared with the direction this offseason is headed towards. Much like the Jerome deal (Lecque probably has less value) it's not a needle mover, and essentially a pick swap & salary dump. Who knows what the value of those picks will be by then. This is just a small salary dump at the end of the day and way for the Wizards to gain a project they might find intriguing for next to nothing

Mock Draft:
1.  MIN- Anthony Edwards.
2.  GSW- Isaac Okoro.
3.  CHA- James Wiseman.
4.  CHI- LaMelo Ball.
5.  CLE- Deni Avdija.
6.  ATL- Devin Vassell.
7.  DET- Obi Toppin.
8. NYK- Killian Hayes.
9. WSH- Tyrese Haliburton.
10. BOS (via PHX)- Onyeka Okongwu.
11. SAN- Patrick Williams.
12. SAC- Precious Achiuwa.
13. NOP- RJ Hampton.
14. PHX- Aaron Nesmith.
15. ORL- Cole Anthony.
16. POR- Saddiq Bey.
17. MIN- Jalen Smith.
18. DAL- Josh Green.
19. BKN- Tyrese Maxey.
20. MIA- Kira Lewis Jr.
21. PHI- Tyrell Terry.
22. DEN- Aleksej Pokusevski.
23. UTH- Theo Maledon.
24. MIL- Malachi Flynn.
25. OKC- Jaden McDaniels.
26. PHX (via BOS)- Desmond Bane.
27. NYK- Leandro Bolmaro.
28. LAL- Tre Jones.
29. TOR- Grant Riller.
30. BOS- Tyler Bey.

14th pick’s rookie scale contract: $3,458,400.

26th pick’s rookie scale contract: $2,035,800.

Aaron Nesmith and Desmond Bane are two of the best shooters in the entire class, and both fit the exact mold of being a “James Jones guy”. While I wouldn’t take Nesmith 14th overall personally, it’s something I could see the Suns doing as they continue to look to improve their shooting, and the success Cam Johnson had could lead towards them making a similar "type" of pick, although I think Johnson is a superior prospect to Nesmith. Bane at 26 overall would more than make up for it, though there’s a shot he may not be there if a team in the early 20’s falls in love with him. Tough to tell what his exact range will be, but this outcome ain't too shabby overall given how the draft board shook out.

UDFA Signing “Two-way contract”
Suns sign-
Freddie Gillespie, F/C- Baylor.

Gillespie is actually one of my favorite undrafted free agent targets for the Suns, so this is the part where I’ll step in and take over as GM and sign one of my top targets. He is a defensive anchor with a high IQ and (nearly) has a ridiculous plus-nine (9!) wingspan. A high motor big that understands how to play defense at a high level and can finish well around the rim will always have a home in the NBA. At the very least, he can serve as useful depth behind Ayton and Baynes and hopefully eventually be developed into a viable backup center.

He averaged 9.6 PPG, 9.0 RPG, 2.2 BPG, 1.1 SPG while anchoring arguably the best defense in the country last season at Baylor.

Draft class:
Aaron Nesmith, Desmond Bane, Freddie Gillespie

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guaranteed Contracts (after draft):
- Devin Booker- $29,467,800 million.
- Ricky Rubio- $17,000,000 million.
- Kelly Oubre Jr.- $14,375,000 million.
- Deandre Ayton- $10,018,200 million.
- Mikal Bridges- $4,359,000 million.
- Cameron Johnson- $4,235,160 million.
- Aaron Nesmith- $3,458,400.
- Desmond Bane- $2,035,800.
- *Cameron Payne- $1,937,01.
- Freddie Gillespie- TBD

Total: $86,886,371

Total including cap holds: $109,514,125 (over the cap)

Cap Holds/QO’s:
- Dario Saric (RFA)- $10,445,958 cap hold.
($5 million QO)
- Aron Baynes (UFA)- $10,361,232 cap hold.
- Jevon Carter (RFA)- $1,820,564 cap hold.($1,820,564 QO)
- Tariq Owens- (RFA)- $1,549,812 cap hold.($1,549,812 QO)

Club Option Decisions:
*Pick up Cameron Payne’s $1,977,011 club option.
- Decline Frank Kaminsky’s $5,005,350 million club option.
- Decline Cheick Diallo’s $1,824,003 million club option.
- Waive Elie Okobo before deadline, taking his non-guaranteed contract off the books.
- Decline to extend qualifying offer to Tariq Owens.

Cap Hold Decisions
Use the cap holds of Dario Saric, Aron Baynes and Jevon Carter to go “over the cap” to your benefit by allowing yourself to use both the MLE ($9,258,000) and the BAE ($3,623,000) to add two more quality players to the roster in addition to retaining those three. This would require owner Rob Sarver to dip into his pockets a bit, and essentially enables them to keep these three without them counting against the cap sheets for next season. This is how good teams build and keep depth intact for playoff runs. You have to spend to win.

Extensions (1+1 szn)
- Extend Jevon Carter to a 2 yr./$7.0 million deal. ($3,645,833 mil. year 1, $3,354,167 mil. year 2) *Year 2 team option.
- Extend Dario Saric to a 2 yr./$23.0 million deal. ($11,979,167 mil. year 1, $11,020,833 mil. year 2) *Year 2 team option.
- Extend Aron Baynes to a 2 yr./ $21.0 million deal. ($10,937,500 mil. year 1, $10,062,500 mil. year 2) *Year 2 team option.

I like going this route for flexibility. Overpay year one for all three of these guys, and decide if you want cap space next summer or if they've played up to their contract and are worth keeping around. It also keeps them temporarily content by getting far more money in year one than they would anywhere else on the open market, though they'd be sacrificing potential long-term security. It's a tough call for players and their agents during these unprecedented times, but staying in the same state you (and your family) are presumably familiar with or accustomed to should hold some value.

Free Agent Signings

Mid-level exception: (MLE) $9,258,000- 5% annual raises (4 year max)

*Teams that are over the salary cap and under the luxury tax threshold get to use this exception.

Bi-Annual Exception (BAE): $3,623,000 million- 5% annual raises (2 year max)

*Teams get to use this exception just as it sounds—biannually, meaning every other year. Given Phoenix didn’t use it last season, they are eligible for it this season.

Mid-level exception:

D.J. Augustin- 2 yr./$18.9 mil.

Year 1: $9,258,000 Year 2: $9,720,900

Bi-Annual Exception:

Bryn Forbes- 2yr./$7.4 mil.

Year 1: $3,623,000 Year 2: $3,804,150

Contracts for next season:
- Devin Booker- $29,467,800 million.
- Ricky Rubio- $17,000,000 million.
- Kelly Oubre Jr.- $14,375,000 million.
- Dario Saric- $11,979,167 million.
-Aron Baynes- $10,937,500 million.
- Deandre Ayton- $10,018,200 million.
- D.J. Augustin- $9,258,000 million.
- Mikal Bridges- $4,359,000 million.
- Cameron Johnson- $4,235,160 million.
- Jevon Carter- $3,645,833 million.
- Bryn Forbes- $3,623,000 million.
- Aaron Nesmith- $3,458,400
- Desmond Bane- $2,035,800.

- Cam Payne- $1,977,011 million.
- Freddie Gillespie- TBD

Total: ~$126,329,871

Like I said, this requires Rob Sarver opening that wallet a bit. That is a major if, especially given the projected loss of revenue and the amount of capital they invested in the new practice facility and the arena renovations. It would be a hard pill to swallow for him financially for this year, but the beauty of going this route is that they would not at all be tied to a majority of the money they just committed to long-term, and could get off most of it as soon as next year if it’s not a success on the court or if the generated revenue continues to tank league-wide.

Depth Chart:

C: Deandre Ayton / Aron Baynes / Freddie Gillespie

F: Kelly Oubre Jr. / Dario Saric / Aaron Nesmith

F: Mikal Bridges / Cam Johnson / Desmond Bane

G: Devin Booker / Bryn Forbes / Jevon Carter

G Ricky Rubio / D.J. Augustin / Cam Payne

A second unit spearheaded by Aron Baynes and Dario Saric manning the interior and spacing the floor with Cam Johnson and Bryn Forbes serving as snipers from deep while veteran DJ Augustin runs the show? Sounds good to me. If you want a more defense-first approach, or a spark of energy off the bench? Plug in Jevon Carter. Having Cam Payne as your third lead guard gives you an insurance blanket at the position they haven’t had in years. The bubble certainly shouldn’t garner him any guaranteed minutes or a rotation spot, but at the very least I think he (Payne) should be rostered, which is more than I thought about him entering the bubble.

The minutes for Payne, Carter, Bane and even Nesmith would be hard to come by if everyone was healthy in a perfect world, but the reality is injuries happen and rotations shift. It’s a long, grueling season. Then you factor in the day-to-day of foul trouble, blowouts, hot/cold streaks, calculated nights of rest (Rubio, possibly Baynes) and that could open up additional minutes. At the end of the day, you don’t want to rely on any rookies that heavily anyways. The more depth in place, the merrier. Having trouble finding minutes for younger/unproven but talented players is a good thing, even if you are very high on them! I promise you. Just ask Toronto fans these past couple seasons.

This offseason strategy gives you ample cap flexibility if you want it in 21’ with the team options on Saric, Baynes and Carter for next season, plus the expiring contracts of Kelly Oubre Jr. and Cam Payne. Along with the flexibility, it gives you what you so desperately needed last season—bench depth! Oh, and MOST importantly some additional creation in D.J. Augustin to a bench mob that was starved for it last year. Surrounding Augustin with that second unit of absolute marksmen from deep (including Nesmith and Bane) gives them one of the best shooting teams in the NBA from top-to-bottom.

The starters have a +20.2 net rating in 226 minutes by the way. You want the Valley Boyz to run it back and fix what held them back the most last season? Then this is the move. Maybe not with this exact group of players via draft/FA, etc., but this is essentially what the strategy would look like more or less if they are committed to balancing continuity and winning.

What grade would you give this offseason? Comment below or reply to the tweet that brought you here with your thoughts. Thanks for reading.

If you’re craving content similar to this, one of my favorite articles re: Suns Offseason was from my friend David Nash and you should definitely give it a look: Time For Sarver To Put His Money Where His Mouth Is.

Hope you all enjoyed it. Consider subscribing if you can, every bit truly helps. Thanks!


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viewtopic.php?f=191&t=1267696

Now, I know many have been guilty of doing this before, even me, but for future reference...by posting the tweet you are actually giving the author credit, but the quoted part of the article should be no more than 3 paragraphs...so try to pick the best ones.

Those interested can follow the link.

Now, onto my thoughts of the content.

I really like all the ideas, though I think it is extremely unlikely for multiple reasons.

I will be very surprised if Bane makes it to 26.

I will be very surprised if Okongwu drops to 10.

I will be very surprised if someone wants to trade for Jerome.

I don't see big reason to trade Lecque..he is a minimum guy with team options the next two years..no real downside...though I don't expect him to amount to much, but at the minimum, no real risk..I understand he needed the roster spots but I doubt we need that many...though I guess if Gillespie is on a 2 way, he could be a 16th guy.

I will be surprised if SA lets Forbes go, or if he decides to leave on his own.

I do like Augustin for a backup role, but I am not sure we would use the full MLE on him.

I especially do not expect Sarver to retain everyone and work as an over the cap team, use the full MLE and BAE. This will put us like $13 million + over the cap. That isn't even in his nature when we are doing well and filling up the stadium, much less not filling it up like in the past 4-5 years...but this next year it will be worse and he has already lost revenue. I see like a 5% chance working over the cap and using both those exceptions happening, though I'd love for that to be the plan.

I would also put 2nd year team options on Augustin and Forbes, to retain cap space, since we are doing it with Saric
and Baynes anyway..it somewhat pointless to do with them and not the other FA signees...if we want 2021 cap space.

I do like picking another guy up undrafted that they have their eye on for a 2 way contract, or at least a camp invite.
I do like signing another undrafted FA
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1785 » by Kerrsed » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:07 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:Zona (@AZSportsZone) Tweeted:
It’s finally here!

‘Phoenix Suns Mock Offseason 1.0’ is live. The first of many this offseason. Hope you all enjoy.

RTs are appreciated. Consider subscribing to my Patreon if you can, goal is to hit 20 before the NBA Draft. Unlocked for all. Thanks!https://t.co/3MluVQFcm3 https://t.co/Y0KMqJUgSY
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Spoiler:
Zona Hoops

OCT 16, 2020 AT 9:01 AM

Phoenix Suns Mock Offseason 1.0

Hello everyone, I am very excited to launch this series over the course of the offseason where I will play out several scenarios of what the Phoenix Suns could potentially do this offseason.

Before we get started please read these disclaimers:

1)  I am not a cap expert by any means, but did my best using my current knowledge of the salary cap along with the resources available to ensure everything done here is both possible and realistic. Also shoutout to my guy David Nash for giving it a gander before launch. Check out and subscribe to his newsletter while you're here.

2)  This is NOT entirely what I would do if I were in charge per se, rather this is me giving you a taste of what an actual offseason could look like given what we know/have read about the plans for this offseason. I will eventually conduct one where I’ll do what I would do if I were the GM in a perfect world. This is not going to be that, although I'm pleased with how it turned out.

3)  There will be a few more of these mock offseasons, covering various approaches and possibilities. I plan on the next one being a bit wilder and far less conservative than this approach.

Continuity: (kaan·tuh·noo·uh·tee)- “a state of stability and the absence of disruption.”

This particular mock offseason will be filed under “the one where (mostly) everyone stays” as the focus will be keeping the continuity (for once) while improving the bench and overall roster depth in the process.

The salary cap for this exercise will be set at $109,140,000 as an estimate of what the salary cap will be for next season. It was originally slated to be $115,000,000 but due to COVID-19 and the losses that ensued, it’s been rumored that they will keep it at $109 million, which is what the cap was a season ago.

We’ll start with the NBA Draft since that takes place before free agency. This is just an estimation of what I think the board could shape up to be, obviously a trade at the top would shake everything up in a ripple effect, so don’t hold too much weight into what mock drafts look like at this stage from anybody, though they are always fun. I also threw in a couple minor and realistic trades for fun.

Pre-Free Agency Trades:

Suns and Celtics draft day swap:
- PHX: 14th pick, 26th pick.
- BOS: 10th pick.

Boston and Phoenix made a draft-day trade last year, and this one makes even more sense for both sides as the Celtics land Okongwu after his surprising drop and Phoenix gets back two picks to use to address other areas of need while still getting “their guys”.

Phoenix and Detroit make minor deal (pre-FA):
- PHX: 2021 2nd round pick (via LAL).

- DET: Ty Jerome.

This just clears the guard logjam and gives Phoenix a bit of salary relief in the process. The Lakers 2nd round pick figures to be in the 55-60 range next year, so it’s not much of an asset for Detroit to unload while they take a gamble on someone taken in the 1st round a year ago. Win-win.

Suns, Wiz complete blockbuster (pre-FA):
- PHX: 2023 2nd round pick (via CHI).

- WSH: Jalen Lecque, 2023 2nd round pick (PHX).

Lecque signed with Klutch, the Suns sold their G League affiliate and the guard logjam still needs to be cleared with the direction this offseason is headed towards. Much like the Jerome deal (Lecque probably has less value) it's not a needle mover, and essentially a pick swap & salary dump. Who knows what the value of those picks will be by then. This is just a small salary dump at the end of the day and way for the Wizards to gain a project they might find intriguing for next to nothing

Mock Draft:
1.  MIN- Anthony Edwards.
2.  GSW- Isaac Okoro.
3.  CHA- James Wiseman.
4.  CHI- LaMelo Ball.
5.  CLE- Deni Avdija.
6.  ATL- Devin Vassell.
7.  DET- Obi Toppin.
8. NYK- Killian Hayes.
9. WSH- Tyrese Haliburton.
10. BOS (via PHX)- Onyeka Okongwu.
11. SAN- Patrick Williams.
12. SAC- Precious Achiuwa.
13. NOP- RJ Hampton.
14. PHX- Aaron Nesmith.
15. ORL- Cole Anthony.
16. POR- Saddiq Bey.
17. MIN- Jalen Smith.
18. DAL- Josh Green.
19. BKN- Tyrese Maxey.
20. MIA- Kira Lewis Jr.
21. PHI- Tyrell Terry.
22. DEN- Aleksej Pokusevski.
23. UTH- Theo Maledon.
24. MIL- Malachi Flynn.
25. OKC- Jaden McDaniels.
26. PHX (via BOS)- Desmond Bane.
27. NYK- Leandro Bolmaro.
28. LAL- Tre Jones.
29. TOR- Grant Riller.
30. BOS- Tyler Bey.

14th pick’s rookie scale contract: $3,458,400.

26th pick’s rookie scale contract: $2,035,800.

Aaron Nesmith and Desmond Bane are two of the best shooters in the entire class, and both fit the exact mold of being a “James Jones guy”. While I wouldn’t take Nesmith 14th overall personally, it’s something I could see the Suns doing as they continue to look to improve their shooting, and the success Cam Johnson had could lead towards them making a similar "type" of pick, although I think Johnson is a superior prospect to Nesmith. Bane at 26 overall would more than make up for it, though there’s a shot he may not be there if a team in the early 20’s falls in love with him. Tough to tell what his exact range will be, but this outcome ain't too shabby overall given how the draft board shook out.

UDFA Signing “Two-way contract”
Suns sign-
Freddie Gillespie, F/C- Baylor.

Gillespie is actually one of my favorite undrafted free agent targets for the Suns, so this is the part where I’ll step in and take over as GM and sign one of my top targets. He is a defensive anchor with a high IQ and (nearly) has a ridiculous plus-nine (9!) wingspan. A high motor big that understands how to play defense at a high level and can finish well around the rim will always have a home in the NBA. At the very least, he can serve as useful depth behind Ayton and Baynes and hopefully eventually be developed into a viable backup center.

He averaged 9.6 PPG, 9.0 RPG, 2.2 BPG, 1.1 SPG while anchoring arguably the best defense in the country last season at Baylor.

Draft class:
Aaron Nesmith, Desmond Bane, Freddie Gillespie

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guaranteed Contracts (after draft):
- Devin Booker- $29,467,800 million.
- Ricky Rubio- $17,000,000 million.
- Kelly Oubre Jr.- $14,375,000 million.
- Deandre Ayton- $10,018,200 million.
- Mikal Bridges- $4,359,000 million.
- Cameron Johnson- $4,235,160 million.
- Aaron Nesmith- $3,458,400.
- Desmond Bane- $2,035,800.
- *Cameron Payne- $1,937,01.
- Freddie Gillespie- TBD

Total: $86,886,371

Total including cap holds: $109,514,125 (over the cap)

Cap Holds/QO’s:
- Dario Saric (RFA)- $10,445,958 cap hold.
($5 million QO)
- Aron Baynes (UFA)- $10,361,232 cap hold.
- Jevon Carter (RFA)- $1,820,564 cap hold.($1,820,564 QO)
- Tariq Owens- (RFA)- $1,549,812 cap hold.($1,549,812 QO)

Club Option Decisions:
*Pick up Cameron Payne’s $1,977,011 club option.
- Decline Frank Kaminsky’s $5,005,350 million club option.
- Decline Cheick Diallo’s $1,824,003 million club option.
- Waive Elie Okobo before deadline, taking his non-guaranteed contract off the books.
- Decline to extend qualifying offer to Tariq Owens.

Cap Hold Decisions
Use the cap holds of Dario Saric, Aron Baynes and Jevon Carter to go “over the cap” to your benefit by allowing yourself to use both the MLE ($9,258,000) and the BAE ($3,623,000) to add two more quality players to the roster in addition to retaining those three. This would require owner Rob Sarver to dip into his pockets a bit, and essentially enables them to keep these three without them counting against the cap sheets for next season. This is how good teams build and keep depth intact for playoff runs. You have to spend to win.

Extensions (1+1 szn)
- Extend Jevon Carter to a 2 yr./$7.0 million deal. ($3,645,833 mil. year 1, $3,354,167 mil. year 2) *Year 2 team option.
- Extend Dario Saric to a 2 yr./$23.0 million deal. ($11,979,167 mil. year 1, $11,020,833 mil. year 2) *Year 2 team option.
- Extend Aron Baynes to a 2 yr./ $21.0 million deal. ($10,937,500 mil. year 1, $10,062,500 mil. year 2) *Year 2 team option.

I like going this route for flexibility. Overpay year one for all three of these guys, and decide if you want cap space next summer or if they've played up to their contract and are worth keeping around. It also keeps them temporarily content by getting far more money in year one than they would anywhere else on the open market, though they'd be sacrificing potential long-term security. It's a tough call for players and their agents during these unprecedented times, but staying in the same state you (and your family) are presumably familiar with or accustomed to should hold some value.

Free Agent Signings

Mid-level exception: (MLE) $9,258,000- 5% annual raises (4 year max)

*Teams that are over the salary cap and under the luxury tax threshold get to use this exception.

Bi-Annual Exception (BAE): $3,623,000 million- 5% annual raises (2 year max)

*Teams get to use this exception just as it sounds—biannually, meaning every other year. Given Phoenix didn’t use it last season, they are eligible for it this season.

Mid-level exception:

D.J. Augustin- 2 yr./$18.9 mil.

Year 1: $9,258,000 Year 2: $9,720,900

Bi-Annual Exception:

Bryn Forbes- 2yr./$7.4 mil.

Year 1: $3,623,000 Year 2: $3,804,150

Contracts for next season:
- Devin Booker- $29,467,800 million.
- Ricky Rubio- $17,000,000 million.
- Kelly Oubre Jr.- $14,375,000 million.
- Dario Saric- $11,979,167 million.
-Aron Baynes- $10,937,500 million.
- Deandre Ayton- $10,018,200 million.
- D.J. Augustin- $9,258,000 million.
- Mikal Bridges- $4,359,000 million.
- Cameron Johnson- $4,235,160 million.
- Jevon Carter- $3,645,833 million.
- Bryn Forbes- $3,623,000 million.
- Aaron Nesmith- $3,458,400
- Desmond Bane- $2,035,800.

- Cam Payne- $1,977,011 million.
- Freddie Gillespie- TBD

Total: ~$126,329,871

Like I said, this requires Rob Sarver opening that wallet a bit. That is a major if, especially given the projected loss of revenue and the amount of capital they invested in the new practice facility and the arena renovations. It would be a hard pill to swallow for him financially for this year, but the beauty of going this route is that they would not at all be tied to a majority of the money they just committed to long-term, and could get off most of it as soon as next year if it’s not a success on the court or if the generated revenue continues to tank league-wide.

Depth Chart:

C: Deandre Ayton / Aron Baynes / Freddie Gillespie

F: Kelly Oubre Jr. / Dario Saric / Aaron Nesmith

F: Mikal Bridges / Cam Johnson / Desmond Bane

G: Devin Booker / Bryn Forbes / Jevon Carter

G Ricky Rubio / D.J. Augustin / Cam Payne

A second unit spearheaded by Aron Baynes and Dario Saric manning the interior and spacing the floor with Cam Johnson and Bryn Forbes serving as snipers from deep while veteran DJ Augustin runs the show? Sounds good to me. If you want a more defense-first approach, or a spark of energy off the bench? Plug in Jevon Carter. Having Cam Payne as your third lead guard gives you an insurance blanket at the position they haven’t had in years. The bubble certainly shouldn’t garner him any guaranteed minutes or a rotation spot, but at the very least I think he (Payne) should be rostered, which is more than I thought about him entering the bubble.

The minutes for Payne, Carter, Bane and even Nesmith would be hard to come by if everyone was healthy in a perfect world, but the reality is injuries happen and rotations shift. It’s a long, grueling season. Then you factor in the day-to-day of foul trouble, blowouts, hot/cold streaks, calculated nights of rest (Rubio, possibly Baynes) and that could open up additional minutes. At the end of the day, you don’t want to rely on any rookies that heavily anyways. The more depth in place, the merrier. Having trouble finding minutes for younger/unproven but talented players is a good thing, even if you are very high on them! I promise you. Just ask Toronto fans these past couple seasons.

This offseason strategy gives you ample cap flexibility if you want it in 21’ with the team options on Saric, Baynes and Carter for next season, plus the expiring contracts of Kelly Oubre Jr. and Cam Payne. Along with the flexibility, it gives you what you so desperately needed last season—bench depth! Oh, and MOST importantly some additional creation in D.J. Augustin to a bench mob that was starved for it last year. Surrounding Augustin with that second unit of absolute marksmen from deep (including Nesmith and Bane) gives them one of the best shooting teams in the NBA from top-to-bottom.

The starters have a +20.2 net rating in 226 minutes by the way. You want the Valley Boyz to run it back and fix what held them back the most last season? Then this is the move. Maybe not with this exact group of players via draft/FA, etc., but this is essentially what the strategy would look like more or less if they are committed to balancing continuity and winning.

What grade would you give this offseason? Comment below or reply to the tweet that brought you here with your thoughts. Thanks for reading.

If you’re craving content similar to this, one of my favorite articles re: Suns Offseason was from my friend David Nash and you should definitely give it a look: Time For Sarver To Put His Money Where His Mouth Is.

Hope you all enjoyed it. Consider subscribing if you can, every bit truly helps. Thanks!


For the record, I like the idea of trading back with Boston for the 14/ 26 picks. But there's no way that I'm being so redundant as to take Nesmith at 14, And then Bane at 27 ( Bane is highly unlikely to even last past the late teens/early 20s' anyways). I'd take Bane or Lewis at 14, And then Tyler Bey or Daniel Oturu or Paul Reed or Reggie Perry at 26. Yes, Shooting is great, But of greater importance, Would be a 3 and D highly versatile, switchable big, and a backup scoring combo guard. Also, adding Forbes in addition to Nesmith and Bane is even more redundant and somewhat pointless. Lastly, I don't see any way that we bring back Baynes at 10 million, AND THEN Saric at 11 million! At best, Saric get an offer of around 6-8 million ( or slightly above the qualifying offer) Otherwise we let him walk. Still, very intriguing and a worthwhile experience. Good job by Zona! :D


Im honestly not upset at the draft aspect, but i dont like the FA aspect one bit. Not a fan of paying DJ Augustine $10M a season and also think we can do much better than Forbes off the bench for Booker. With Booker playing so many minutes, it doesnt make sense to me to throw money towards a player to play a few spot minutes there every night. I'd rather just keep Pitbull Carter there to play D and not allow the opposing SG run up the score when Booker sits. I think our greatest issue is our bigs. I dont see anyway Baynes comes back. Everything he said sounded like he was already gone. Diallo wasnt trash, but was just.......ho-hum i guess. Frank/Dario shouldnt be getting minutes at C either, so i think that is where an investment needs to be made. From Ayton getting in foul trouble (Which he doesnt do alot, but when he does they seem to come fast and furious) to possible injuries to whatever, we need a backup big for him. Same thing with PF, Oubre/Cam are both SF's that can play PF if need be, but i dont think they necessarily should be getting massive minutes there. Frank is trash and Dario was kinda hit or miss on the season. I think we can improve.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1786 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:08 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
King4Day wrote:
8. Which prospect-team pairing do you think is a perfect fit?

Schmitz: I love what Tyrese Maxey could become with the Phoenix Suns alongside Devin Booker, Deandre Ayton and Mikal Bridges. The Suns could use another jolt of shot creation and off-ball scoring in the backcourt, and that's exactly what Maxey provides. He is the next Kentucky guard with more on-ball potential than he was able to show at the collegiate ranks given the abundance of talent on the Wildcats' roster.


https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/30120353/new-nba-draft-intel-trade-talk-sleepers-perfect-fits


I just dont see what the Maxey hype is about. Sure, he is a guard from Kentucky, and historically they have transitioned great to the NBA (Except for when they dont), but he is a 6'3 SG that shot below 30% from 3 and below 45% from the field. Lets compare him to another Kentucky SG that was a sleeper pick and under-utilized in college:

Spoiler:
Image


I have to say that I strongly agree! :nod:
I really want to like Maxey, But his percentages were just so poor for a big shotmaker! I do like his point of attack relentless motor and creativity in isolation, But as Kerrsed pointed out, His size and speed are not all that optimal when contemplating his projection to the NBA, Wherein he'll face off against much bigger, faster, stronger, more athletic opponents. And I'm just not very optimistic about his ability to improve significantly against that level of competition. With respect to shooting efficiency, I'd much rather consider Tyshon Alexander as an extreme value pick with really good point of attack defense, AND much better shooting stats/ metrics. :dontknow:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1787 » by RedIndian » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:52 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
RedIndian wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Are you saying #10 is too high because he isn't as good as that group you have listed or just because he's projected to go lower?

Bane is a 4th year guy, and though I like him, he's definitely lower ceiling than any of those other guys. I mean he was projected to be a 2nd rounder till not too long ago. Unless his stock has risen to the point that teams in the lottery are willing to take him, it'd be poor asset management to take him at #10. If you want him and him alone, trade down and get another asset.


Potentially, but I think just because guys are 4 year guys, they can often drop simply due to that further than they should. You have 4 year guys that end up a lot better than people think, like Draymond Green for example. A lot of great players were 4 year guys, like Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, etc.

This is such a draft where it ie an "eye of the beholder" draft, moreso than usual, and they are talking about how boards for teams are all over the place, moreso than I've ever heard, that I feel if you mess around and try to trade down in this draft because you think you can get a guy later, you may miss out on him altogether. There may not be that much difference between a lot of the prospects taken between 12 and 35....or maybe a lot of that group and some of the top 10.

Obviously I'd love to trade down, pick up some asset for doing so, and still get him if we take him, but I won't be surprised if he goes in the teens, or that surprised if we even took him at 10....I could see us trading down from like 10 to 16 and taking him though...not risking trading down too low...but we'd have to have a backup plan, or maybe take a guy at 10 we also really like (that the team at 16 wants) and only execute the trade if Bane is there...kind of like Philly did when they traded us Bridges....they had Bridges like 1A and Zhaire Smith like 1B but ended up getting the unprotected 2021 first out of us for the swap...of course that pick doesn't look so great...will likely be in the 20s.

I think the draft is weak in top end talent, but I quite like the depth of this draft in the #10-20 spots. Quite a few decent prospects who could potentially become decent starters or even possible stars - Patrick Williams, Kira Lewis, Jalen Smith, Vassell are my picks there like I said. Even the likes of Cole Anthony, Maxey, Josh Green, Hampton, Pokusevski might end up being very good (no guarantees though).

Given that, I'd be a bit surprised if we went with someone like Bane at #10. I quite see your point about 4th year guys being undervalued in general, but with Bane, I just don't see a very high ceiling. He's an outstanding shooter and seems to be a smart role player, but his ball-handling is pretty mediocre, and he has t-rex arms (wingspan shorter than height). I'm not confident in him really developing into anything more than a 3&D player in the NBA, somewhat in the mould of a bigger Jevon Carter. That should be a nice rotation caliber player, but I'd want more at #10, and I do think this draft can provide more at #10.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1788 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:44 pm

The question with Maxey is was his 3pt % really indicative of his shooting or a small sample size fluke. When you only have 1 short college season to go on its dangerous to put too much weight just on those numbers. He has a good stroke and good FT% both good signs that he can shoot. He's the type where if he shoots well in workouts his stock could rise.

He's not particularly high on my personal suns board but I wouldn't hate the pick because I do think he has upside as a two way combo guard.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1789 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:19 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Zona (@AZSportsZone) Tweeted:
It’s finally here!

‘Phoenix Suns Mock Offseason 1.0’ is live. The first of many this offseason. Hope you all enjoy.

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OCT 16, 2020 AT 9:01 AM

Phoenix Suns Mock Offseason 1.0

Hello everyone, I am very excited to launch this series over the course of the offseason where I will play out several scenarios of what the Phoenix Suns could potentially do this offseason.

Before we get started please read these disclaimers:

1)  I am not a cap expert by any means, but did my best using my current knowledge of the salary cap along with the resources available to ensure everything done here is both possible and realistic. Also shoutout to my guy David Nash for giving it a gander before launch. Check out and subscribe to his newsletter while you're here.

2)  This is NOT entirely what I would do if I were in charge per se, rather this is me giving you a taste of what an actual offseason could look like given what we know/have read about the plans for this offseason. I will eventually conduct one where I’ll do what I would do if I were the GM in a perfect world. This is not going to be that, although I'm pleased with how it turned out.

3)  There will be a few more of these mock offseasons, covering various approaches and possibilities. I plan on the next one being a bit wilder and far less conservative than this approach.

Continuity: (kaan·tuh·noo·uh·tee)- “a state of stability and the absence of disruption.”

This particular mock offseason will be filed under “the one where (mostly) everyone stays” as the focus will be keeping the continuity (for once) while improving the bench and overall roster depth in the process.

The salary cap for this exercise will be set at $109,140,000 as an estimate of what the salary cap will be for next season. It was originally slated to be $115,000,000 but due to COVID-19 and the losses that ensued, it’s been rumored that they will keep it at $109 million, which is what the cap was a season ago.

We’ll start with the NBA Draft since that takes place before free agency. This is just an estimation of what I think the board could shape up to be, obviously a trade at the top would shake everything up in a ripple effect, so don’t hold too much weight into what mock drafts look like at this stage from anybody, though they are always fun. I also threw in a couple minor and realistic trades for fun.

Pre-Free Agency Trades:

Suns and Celtics draft day swap:
- PHX: 14th pick, 26th pick.
- BOS: 10th pick.

Boston and Phoenix made a draft-day trade last year, and this one makes even more sense for both sides as the Celtics land Okongwu after his surprising drop and Phoenix gets back two picks to use to address other areas of need while still getting “their guys”.

Phoenix and Detroit make minor deal (pre-FA):
- PHX: 2021 2nd round pick (via LAL).

- DET: Ty Jerome.

This just clears the guard logjam and gives Phoenix a bit of salary relief in the process. The Lakers 2nd round pick figures to be in the 55-60 range next year, so it’s not much of an asset for Detroit to unload while they take a gamble on someone taken in the 1st round a year ago. Win-win.

Suns, Wiz complete blockbuster (pre-FA):
- PHX: 2023 2nd round pick (via CHI).

- WSH: Jalen Lecque, 2023 2nd round pick (PHX).

Lecque signed with Klutch, the Suns sold their G League affiliate and the guard logjam still needs to be cleared with the direction this offseason is headed towards. Much like the Jerome deal (Lecque probably has less value) it's not a needle mover, and essentially a pick swap & salary dump. Who knows what the value of those picks will be by then. This is just a small salary dump at the end of the day and way for the Wizards to gain a project they might find intriguing for next to nothing

Mock Draft:
1.  MIN- Anthony Edwards.
2.  GSW- Isaac Okoro.
3.  CHA- James Wiseman.
4.  CHI- LaMelo Ball.
5.  CLE- Deni Avdija.
6.  ATL- Devin Vassell.
7.  DET- Obi Toppin.
8. NYK- Killian Hayes.
9. WSH- Tyrese Haliburton.
10. BOS (via PHX)- Onyeka Okongwu.
11. SAN- Patrick Williams.
12. SAC- Precious Achiuwa.
13. NOP- RJ Hampton.
14. PHX- Aaron Nesmith.
15. ORL- Cole Anthony.
16. POR- Saddiq Bey.
17. MIN- Jalen Smith.
18. DAL- Josh Green.
19. BKN- Tyrese Maxey.
20. MIA- Kira Lewis Jr.
21. PHI- Tyrell Terry.
22. DEN- Aleksej Pokusevski.
23. UTH- Theo Maledon.
24. MIL- Malachi Flynn.
25. OKC- Jaden McDaniels.
26. PHX (via BOS)- Desmond Bane.
27. NYK- Leandro Bolmaro.
28. LAL- Tre Jones.
29. TOR- Grant Riller.
30. BOS- Tyler Bey.

14th pick’s rookie scale contract: $3,458,400.

26th pick’s rookie scale contract: $2,035,800.

Aaron Nesmith and Desmond Bane are two of the best shooters in the entire class, and both fit the exact mold of being a “James Jones guy”. While I wouldn’t take Nesmith 14th overall personally, it’s something I could see the Suns doing as they continue to look to improve their shooting, and the success Cam Johnson had could lead towards them making a similar "type" of pick, although I think Johnson is a superior prospect to Nesmith. Bane at 26 overall would more than make up for it, though there’s a shot he may not be there if a team in the early 20’s falls in love with him. Tough to tell what his exact range will be, but this outcome ain't too shabby overall given how the draft board shook out.

UDFA Signing “Two-way contract”
Suns sign-
Freddie Gillespie, F/C- Baylor.

Gillespie is actually one of my favorite undrafted free agent targets for the Suns, so this is the part where I’ll step in and take over as GM and sign one of my top targets. He is a defensive anchor with a high IQ and (nearly) has a ridiculous plus-nine (9!) wingspan. A high motor big that understands how to play defense at a high level and can finish well around the rim will always have a home in the NBA. At the very least, he can serve as useful depth behind Ayton and Baynes and hopefully eventually be developed into a viable backup center.

He averaged 9.6 PPG, 9.0 RPG, 2.2 BPG, 1.1 SPG while anchoring arguably the best defense in the country last season at Baylor.

Draft class:
Aaron Nesmith, Desmond Bane, Freddie Gillespie

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guaranteed Contracts (after draft):
- Devin Booker- $29,467,800 million.
- Ricky Rubio- $17,000,000 million.
- Kelly Oubre Jr.- $14,375,000 million.
- Deandre Ayton- $10,018,200 million.
- Mikal Bridges- $4,359,000 million.
- Cameron Johnson- $4,235,160 million.
- Aaron Nesmith- $3,458,400.
- Desmond Bane- $2,035,800.
- *Cameron Payne- $1,937,01.
- Freddie Gillespie- TBD

Total: $86,886,371

Total including cap holds: $109,514,125 (over the cap)

Cap Holds/QO’s:
- Dario Saric (RFA)- $10,445,958 cap hold.
($5 million QO)
- Aron Baynes (UFA)- $10,361,232 cap hold.
- Jevon Carter (RFA)- $1,820,564 cap hold.($1,820,564 QO)
- Tariq Owens- (RFA)- $1,549,812 cap hold.($1,549,812 QO)

Club Option Decisions:
*Pick up Cameron Payne’s $1,977,011 club option.
- Decline Frank Kaminsky’s $5,005,350 million club option.
- Decline Cheick Diallo’s $1,824,003 million club option.
- Waive Elie Okobo before deadline, taking his non-guaranteed contract off the books.
- Decline to extend qualifying offer to Tariq Owens.

Cap Hold Decisions
Use the cap holds of Dario Saric, Aron Baynes and Jevon Carter to go “over the cap” to your benefit by allowing yourself to use both the MLE ($9,258,000) and the BAE ($3,623,000) to add two more quality players to the roster in addition to retaining those three. This would require owner Rob Sarver to dip into his pockets a bit, and essentially enables them to keep these three without them counting against the cap sheets for next season. This is how good teams build and keep depth intact for playoff runs. You have to spend to win.

Extensions (1+1 szn)
- Extend Jevon Carter to a 2 yr./$7.0 million deal. ($3,645,833 mil. year 1, $3,354,167 mil. year 2) *Year 2 team option.
- Extend Dario Saric to a 2 yr./$23.0 million deal. ($11,979,167 mil. year 1, $11,020,833 mil. year 2) *Year 2 team option.
- Extend Aron Baynes to a 2 yr./ $21.0 million deal. ($10,937,500 mil. year 1, $10,062,500 mil. year 2) *Year 2 team option.

I like going this route for flexibility. Overpay year one for all three of these guys, and decide if you want cap space next summer or if they've played up to their contract and are worth keeping around. It also keeps them temporarily content by getting far more money in year one than they would anywhere else on the open market, though they'd be sacrificing potential long-term security. It's a tough call for players and their agents during these unprecedented times, but staying in the same state you (and your family) are presumably familiar with or accustomed to should hold some value.

Free Agent Signings

Mid-level exception: (MLE) $9,258,000- 5% annual raises (4 year max)

*Teams that are over the salary cap and under the luxury tax threshold get to use this exception.

Bi-Annual Exception (BAE): $3,623,000 million- 5% annual raises (2 year max)

*Teams get to use this exception just as it sounds—biannually, meaning every other year. Given Phoenix didn’t use it last season, they are eligible for it this season.

Mid-level exception:

D.J. Augustin- 2 yr./$18.9 mil.

Year 1: $9,258,000 Year 2: $9,720,900

Bi-Annual Exception:

Bryn Forbes- 2yr./$7.4 mil.

Year 1: $3,623,000 Year 2: $3,804,150

Contracts for next season:
- Devin Booker- $29,467,800 million.
- Ricky Rubio- $17,000,000 million.
- Kelly Oubre Jr.- $14,375,000 million.
- Dario Saric- $11,979,167 million.
-Aron Baynes- $10,937,500 million.
- Deandre Ayton- $10,018,200 million.
- D.J. Augustin- $9,258,000 million.
- Mikal Bridges- $4,359,000 million.
- Cameron Johnson- $4,235,160 million.
- Jevon Carter- $3,645,833 million.
- Bryn Forbes- $3,623,000 million.
- Aaron Nesmith- $3,458,400
- Desmond Bane- $2,035,800.

- Cam Payne- $1,977,011 million.
- Freddie Gillespie- TBD

Total: ~$126,329,871

Like I said, this requires Rob Sarver opening that wallet a bit. That is a major if, especially given the projected loss of revenue and the amount of capital they invested in the new practice facility and the arena renovations. It would be a hard pill to swallow for him financially for this year, but the beauty of going this route is that they would not at all be tied to a majority of the money they just committed to long-term, and could get off most of it as soon as next year if it’s not a success on the court or if the generated revenue continues to tank league-wide.

Depth Chart:

C: Deandre Ayton / Aron Baynes / Freddie Gillespie

F: Kelly Oubre Jr. / Dario Saric / Aaron Nesmith

F: Mikal Bridges / Cam Johnson / Desmond Bane

G: Devin Booker / Bryn Forbes / Jevon Carter

G Ricky Rubio / D.J. Augustin / Cam Payne

A second unit spearheaded by Aron Baynes and Dario Saric manning the interior and spacing the floor with Cam Johnson and Bryn Forbes serving as snipers from deep while veteran DJ Augustin runs the show? Sounds good to me. If you want a more defense-first approach, or a spark of energy off the bench? Plug in Jevon Carter. Having Cam Payne as your third lead guard gives you an insurance blanket at the position they haven’t had in years. The bubble certainly shouldn’t garner him any guaranteed minutes or a rotation spot, but at the very least I think he (Payne) should be rostered, which is more than I thought about him entering the bubble.

The minutes for Payne, Carter, Bane and even Nesmith would be hard to come by if everyone was healthy in a perfect world, but the reality is injuries happen and rotations shift. It’s a long, grueling season. Then you factor in the day-to-day of foul trouble, blowouts, hot/cold streaks, calculated nights of rest (Rubio, possibly Baynes) and that could open up additional minutes. At the end of the day, you don’t want to rely on any rookies that heavily anyways. The more depth in place, the merrier. Having trouble finding minutes for younger/unproven but talented players is a good thing, even if you are very high on them! I promise you. Just ask Toronto fans these past couple seasons.

This offseason strategy gives you ample cap flexibility if you want it in 21’ with the team options on Saric, Baynes and Carter for next season, plus the expiring contracts of Kelly Oubre Jr. and Cam Payne. Along with the flexibility, it gives you what you so desperately needed last season—bench depth! Oh, and MOST importantly some additional creation in D.J. Augustin to a bench mob that was starved for it last year. Surrounding Augustin with that second unit of absolute marksmen from deep (including Nesmith and Bane) gives them one of the best shooting teams in the NBA from top-to-bottom.

The starters have a +20.2 net rating in 226 minutes by the way. You want the Valley Boyz to run it back and fix what held them back the most last season? Then this is the move. Maybe not with this exact group of players via draft/FA, etc., but this is essentially what the strategy would look like more or less if they are committed to balancing continuity and winning.

What grade would you give this offseason? Comment below or reply to the tweet that brought you here with your thoughts. Thanks for reading.

If you’re craving content similar to this, one of my favorite articles re: Suns Offseason was from my friend David Nash and you should definitely give it a look: Time For Sarver To Put His Money Where His Mouth Is.

Hope you all enjoyed it. Consider subscribing if you can, every bit truly helps. Thanks!


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viewtopic.php?f=191&t=1267696

Now, I know many have been guilty of doing this before, even me, but for future reference...by posting the tweet you are actually giving the author credit, but the quoted part of the article should be no more than 3 paragraphs...so try to pick the best ones.

Those interested can follow the link.

Now, onto my thoughts of the content.

I really like all the ideas, though I think it is extremely unlikely for multiple reasons.

I will be very surprised if Bane makes it to 26.

I will be very surprised if Okongwu drops to 10.

I will be very surprised if someone wants to trade for Jerome.

I don't see big reason to trade Lecque..he is a minimum guy with team options the next two years..no real downside...though I don't expect him to amount to much, but at the minimum, no real risk..I understand he needed the roster spots but I doubt we need that many...though I guess if Gillespie is on a 2 way, he could be a 16th guy.

I will be surprised if SA lets Forbes go, or if he decides to leave on his own.

I do like Augustin for a backup role, but I am not sure we would use the full MLE on him.

I especially do not expect Sarver to retain everyone and work as an over the cap team, use the full MLE and BAE. This will put us like $13 million + over the cap. That isn't even in his nature when we are doing well and filling up the stadium, much less not filling it up like in the past 4-5 years...but this next year it will be worse and he has already lost revenue. I see like a 5% chance working over the cap and using both those exceptions happening, though I'd love for that to be the plan.

I would also put 2nd year team options on Augustin and Forbes, to retain cap space, since we are doing it with Saric
and Baynes anyway..it somewhat pointless to do with them and not the other FA signees...if we want 2021 cap space.

I do like picking another guy up undrafted that they have their eye on for a 2 way contract, or at least a camp invite.
I do like signing another undrafted FA
Yeah it's a minor point but no reason not to bring Leque back. You signed him knowing he was a super raw project so no reason to give up so quickly. He makes the minimum so doesn't impact the cap and you need end of the bench guys to fill out the roster. If you don't like where he's at from a development standpoint after next year then move on because his contract is nonguaranteed for 21/22.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1790 » by Saberestar » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:41 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:


I just dont see what the Maxey hype is about. Sure, he is a guard from Kentucky, and historically they have transitioned great to the NBA (Except for when they dont), but he is a 6'3 SG that shot below 30% from 3 and below 45% from the field. Lets compare him to another Kentucky SG that was a sleeper pick and under-utilized in college:

Spoiler:
Image


I have to say that I strongly agree! :nod:
I really want to like Maxey, But his percentages were just so poor for a big shotmaker! I do like his point of attack relentless motor and creativity in isolation, But as Kerrsed pointed out, His size and speed are not all that optimal when contemplating his projection to the NBA, Wherein he'll face off against much bigger, faster, stronger, more athletic opponents. And I'm just not very optimistic about his ability to improve significantly against that level of competition. With respect to shooting efficiency, I'd much rather consider Tyshon Alexander as an extreme value pick with really good point of attack defense, AND much better shooting stats/ metrics. :dontknow:

I really like Maxey, one of my favourite players in this draft so I disagree with you and Kerrsed on a few things about him.

First...He is not an SG.

Calipary recruited three great prospects that were all basically PGs, so they adapted and started together. Maxey played SG for the majority of the time like Jamal Murray played SG next to Tyler Ulis.

The good thing is that he can play off the ball and with the ball, that versatility is a plus, but you need to remember that he will be better and more comfortable as a PG. Nice ball handler.

Second... He is a GREAT athlete.

This guy will be a top tier athlete at the PG position since day one IMO. Better than Kira in that regard, he is right behind Ja Morant. Just watch some of his workouts and or plays going to the rim on games and you will understand that he has it all athletically. He is a very good leaper, has relentless motor, plays fiery and is strong for his age. He is 6'3 with a 6'6 wingspan...more than adequate size for that PG position, easily could defend SGs some minutes too.

Third.... He is a hard worker and plays with passion.

That can be said for a lot of prospects but not for all of them (.....Bender comes to my mind). This guy loves the game and plays hard, that Jimmy Butler/Tyler Herro mentality IMO. He is very good defensively, he is a pest, enjoy defense.... you know that he will not take plays off.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1791 » by Kerrsed » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:44 pm

Saberestar wrote:I really like Maxey, one of my favourite players in this draft so I disagree with you and Kerrsed on a few things about him.

First...He is not an SG.

Calipary recruited three great prospects that were all basically PGs, so they adapted and started together. Maxey played SG for the majority of the time like Jamal Murray played SG next to Tyler Ulis.

The good thing is that he can play off the ball and with the ball, that versatility is a plus, but you need to remember that he will be better and more comfortable as a PG. Nice ball handler.

Second... He is a GREAT athlete.

This guy will be a top tier athlete at the PG position since day one IMO. Better than Kira in that regard, he is right behind Ja Morant. Just watch some of his workouts and or plays going to the rim on games and you will understand that he has it all athletically. He is a very good leaper, has relentless motor, plays fiery and is strong for his age. He is 6'3 with a 6'6 wingspan...more than adequate size for that PG position, easily could defend SGs some minutes too.

Third.... He is a hard worker and plays with passion.

That can be said for a lot of prospects but not for all of them (.....Bender comes to my mind). This guy loves the game and plays hard, that Jimmy Butler/Tyler Herro mentality IMO. He is very good defensively, he is a pest, enjoy defense.... you know that he will not take plays off.



Well, im watching more video of him as we speak. If he can run the point, then my opinion on him changes quite a bit. I was looking at him strictly as a SG as thats what he played at Kentucky and his assists wernt really anything to write home about. But i did watch some of his Highschool play along with the typical McDonald's All-American/Jordan Brand Classic/Nike Hoop Summit/Ballislife clips. Really like this video breakdown that he did with Mike Schmitz:

;

Will report back once i watch a few more videos with a more informed opinion.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1792 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:13 am

Saberestar wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
I just dont see what the Maxey hype is about. Sure, he is a guard from Kentucky, and historically they have transitioned great to the NBA (Except for when they dont), but he is a 6'3 SG that shot below 30% from 3 and below 45% from the field. Lets compare him to another Kentucky SG that was a sleeper pick and under-utilized in college:

Spoiler:
Image


I have to say that I strongly agree! :nod:
I really want to like Maxey, But his percentages were just so poor for a big shotmaker! I do like his point of attack relentless motor and creativity in isolation, But as Kerrsed pointed out, His size and speed are not all that optimal when contemplating his projection to the NBA, Wherein he'll face off against much bigger, faster, stronger, more athletic opponents. And I'm just not very optimistic about his ability to improve significantly against that level of competition. With respect to shooting efficiency, I'd much rather consider Tyshon Alexander as an extreme value pick with really good point of attack defense, AND much better shooting stats/ metrics. :dontknow:

I really like Maxey, one of my favourite players in this draft so I disagree with you and Kerrsed on a few things about him.

First...He is not an SG.

Calipary recruited three great prospects that were all basically PGs, so they adapted and started together. Maxey played SG for the majority of the time like Jamal Murray played SG next to Tyler Ulis.

The good thing is that he can play off the ball and with the ball, that versatility is a plus, but you need to remember that he will be better and more comfortable as a PG. Nice ball handler.

Second... He is a GREAT athlete.

This guy will be a top tier athlete at the PG position since day one IMO. Better than Kira in that regard, he is right behind Ja Morant. Just watch some of his workouts and or plays going to the rim on games and you will understand that he has it all athletically. He is a great leaper, has relentless motor, plays fiery and is strong for his age. He is 6'3 with a 6'6 wingspan...more than adequate size for that PG position, easily could defend SGs some minutes too.

Third.... He is a hard worker and plays with passion.

That can be said for a lot of prospects but not for all of them (.....Bender comes to my mind). This guy loves the game and plays hard, that Jimmy Butler/Tyler Herro mentality IMO. He is very good defensively, he is a pest, enjoy defense.... you know that he will not take plays off.


That's perfectly fine to disagree man. He's still a very fine prospect with good upside potential :wink:

My primary issues with Maxey as stated are:
His poor shooting percentage- 47% FG is ok, Nothing to really write home about, But ok nevertheless. But his 29% from three is pretty disappointing for a guard, Especially one with a reputation as being a potential elite clutch scorer/big shot maker. Also, he's an OK athlete for sure, But doesn't have elite speed comparable to Lewis honestly, Struggles to create separation in isolation situations, ( (Primarily due to a lack of elite burst), Has only a basic handle, And will need to be a secondary play maker in an off ball role, As he's currently only a reactionary passer. What makes him an elite scorer however, Is that he's got a strong frame, solid balance, And is elite at scoring around the rim. But I can't agree with you, That he'll be a top tier athlete from day one, Again, Due to his lack of burst and vertical pop. Although he can occasionally dunk, IF he gets up a head of steam. Now I've already mentioned that I do really like his tenacity and point of attack defensive potential. For reference though:

First...He is not an SG.


https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/21/tyrese-maxey-scouting-report/
-Offensive Role: Scoring guard. Not someone you want running an offense given his average vision and not great feel for passing. Not someone you want running PnRs for, though a more spaced floor might help unlock some roll passes…which would be a threat given his touch on lobs. Should be able to play off-ball and on-ball pretty comfortably, but on-ball would be more of a scoring load and not as a creator role. Should be played next to other primary creators who can get looks for teammates, whether it’s a big, another G, or a wing…otherwise, he’d have to be in an offense that has a system that manufacturers looks, because Maxey is not someone who can really do that.

-Image

https://nbadraftroom.com/p/tyrese-maxey/
- Maxey isn’t really a true 2 guard and he’s not a pure 1. He’s a combo guard who can score the ball and get hot from outside but needs to develop his point guard skills and hit the 3pt shot at a higher clip.

https://thegamehaus.com/nba/tyrese-maxey-2020-nba-draft-profile/2020/08/01/
- While he has the size of a point guard, he is really better as an off-ball guard. At Kentucky, Ashton Hagans ran the point guard spot with Immanuel Quickley getting some reps as well. Maxey was not trusted to handle the offense and may struggle being a point guard at the next level. He’ll have to get reps before being trusted as a point guard in the NBA.

His speed is fine, but his strength needs to improve for the next level. Because he is just 6-foot-3 and will be asked to play shooting guard rather than point guard,
https://elitesportsny.com/2020/10/16/new-york-knicks-draft-profile-kentucky-g-tyrese-maxey/
- Well, Kentucky guard Tyrese Maxey might be one of those players. Berman reported the freshman was on New York’s radar as a “late-lottery guy,” and the team needs enough help at guard that he might be worth it despite not being a traditional point guard.
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/tyrese-maxey/
- 3 - Tyrese Maxey
6-3, 200 Shooting Guard
Kentucky Freshman
- Strengths: Speedy combo guard with crafty scoring ability and solid length …
- Weaknesses: More of a scorer than a true point, or even a combo at this point. Naturally plays better off the ball … Although he shows some passing ability and court vision, he naturally reads the game as a scorer and must improve as a playmaker …

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/tyrese-maxey/
- Lacks great point guard instincts … A little undersized for a shooting guard … a decent 3.2 to 2.2 assist to turnover ratio, but could stand to improve upon ball protection…

Second... He is a GREAT athlete.


https://www.nbadraft.net/players/tyrese-maxey/
- Not the most explosive of leapers … Not what you would consider an above the rim athlete … Can get up and dunk at times, but really his skill set is more predicated on speed and quickness and scoring, utilizing his repertoire as opposed to relying on athleticism …
- Good athlete and smooth with the ball but not incredibly explosive. More of a below the rim finisher in the half-court …

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/21/tyrese-maxey-scouting-report/
Finishing:
- Does not have elite burst off the bounce from a standstill dribble,
- Doesn’t have a great first step going downhill
Self-Shot Creation:
- Not much of a creator for himself off the bounce. His handle and first step limit his potential here, as he is not particularly advanced in terms of handle repertoire / ability to piece together multiple moves and lacks elite burst.
- When trying to ISO against Gs/SFs, he settles for runners because he does not have the quickness and acceleration to beat his man to the rim.
Third.... He is a hard worker and plays with passion.


I agree with this totally man! It's one of the attributes that I like most about him. I really like his relentless tenacity, And strong frame, with creative scoring around the rim. He could have potential ( IF he only fixes his shooting consistency/efficiency from three, And shot selection) to be like a young Lou Williams, With a touch of Patrick Beverly on defense. So he's not at all bad or anything! I'm just not high on his shooting inconsistencies ( 29% from three mainly) And his lack of elite burst/ explosiveness, inability to create separation in ISO scoring situations, And his lack of passing acumen/ court vision( accuracy) as a play maker at his size. Again, Maxey is stronger(frame) than Lewis already, Just not as fast( breakdown ability/burst) currently, And also has not yet shown to be a better perimeter shooter either (Especially from three), Which is paramount in todays' NBA. But then again, He may of course surprise me and everyone else. Only time will tell? :dontknow:

This video illustrates some of my concerns:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1793 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:41 am

NBA Draft Room (@NBAdraftRoom) Tweeted:
The 2022 draft class is starting to look very interesting. If the NBA changes the early entry rules to allow HS>pro's this class could have Emoni Bates, Victor Wembanyama and a boat load of talent including Paolo and Chet: https://t.co/2QI1y8WKly
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1794 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:14 am

Adam Zagoria (@AdamZagoria) Tweeted:
Now on @ForbesSports

Alabama’s Kira Lewis Jr. Talks Knicks, Suns And Virtual NBA Draft via @forbes https://t.co/03YRCjvFMJ

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Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted:
If Kira Lewis masters playmaking from Ricky Rubio as an understudy for two years, watch out. He’s a great fit alongside Devin Booker.

Lewis is awesome in transition, an underrated defender, and can play off the ball when needed. He also doesn’t turn 20-years-old until April.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1795 » by Saberestar » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:13 am

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1796 » by TheLogician » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:33 pm

Kira Lewis Jr. is still my pick. I'm glad Jones is in on him.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1797 » by Wilber85 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:28 pm

We really have a poll to trade Oubre & #10 for the #2 lol.

Then we take Toppin at #2! Typical Suns move!

Oubre is proven, and #10 is just as much as a gamble as #2 in this draft.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1798 » by bwgood77 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:22 pm

Saberestar wrote:
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Man, I hate that the Athletic got rid of her. She was our best beat reporter we've had in awhile, and I can only read so much of the BSoTS dribble. I think David Kevin (or whatever his real name is) is pretty decent...good head on shoulders.

But Gina is really tuned into the team and sports community.

The problem is I don't know that I want to pay her fees just for her content...I think I had a better deal at The Athletic for her stuff and other people's. She is the main reason I had an Athletic subsription, which I canceled, and told them why (but it still is running through November because I had prepaid or something) but now I don't want to lose some of the football beat writers, particularly the Chargers, so I may have to re-up there if they get a good deal.

I just hope they bring her back. The Suns fans there read her and loved her, and whoever else they would bring in to write articles aside from her or after her, stunk...Bob Young wrote some not so great ones earlier...can't remember who did later but you can tell they were far less vested.

Does anyone have a subsription to her new stuff?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1799 » by RedIndian » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:23 pm

Yeah Gina was terrific.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#1800 » by bwgood77 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:31 pm

Wilber85 wrote:We really have a poll to trade Oubre & #10 for the #2 lol.

Then we take Toppin at #2! Typical Suns move!

Oubre is proven, and #10 is just as much as a gamble as #2 in this draft.


I can give you a probably poll result for that. I'd say a good 75% would not do it...maybe more. First of all, no more than half of the forum here wants Toppin, and maybe a third of the posters have him at the top.

But by far more people don't want to trade Oubre than want to trade him. So I think maybe 20-25% would do it at the most, with 75-80% or more wouldn't. It might be more like 85/15.

For me personally, I would have to have a good gauge on the FO's likelihood to want to keep Oubre long term.....like, if I knew they were already thinking he is not the right long term fit to help us get to the next level, I do it. Toppin while maybe not as good now, gives us a ton of space to add someone in addition to him to fill any void left by Kelly....and Toppin probably has more upside...and is already probably a better shooter, passer, and pick and roll finisher than Oubre.

Then if the FO wasn't sure, I'd have to know what Kelly wanted...money wise, starting wise long term...his personal goals vs team goals, etc. Also what his goals were on improving his own game.

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