2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch - Revised Poll

Post #561 » by **bwgood77** » Sun May 17, 2020 5:21 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:Speaking of these, With respect to Jalen Smith. I think, even at 10, Or in a trade back scenario, IF both Toppin and Okungwu are already off the board, I think you just have to take Jalen Smith

Jalen Smith would be a solid pick, especially if the decent PGs are off the board. I might take him over someone like Cole Anthony even.

Kevin O'Connor compares Jalen to Serge Ibaka.

Jalen Smith measures out well against Paul Reed...Reed a tad better on defense and at moving the ball, but Jalen Smith a far better 3 pt shooter and from 2 pt range. Just far more efficient on offense. Great shot blocker/rim protector too.

Comparison with Paul Reed. http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=paul-reed--jalen-smith

I'd probably even prefer him to Okongwu. Adding him into the comparison you can see he is equal defensively to the others, but worse offensively for today's game because he doesn't shoot the 3. His TS% may be higher, but that's because he doesn't shoot 3s, and for 3s to help TS% for a big, they need to hit 40% or so since they usually finish around 60% or better from inside.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=onyeka-okongwu--paul-reed--jalen-smith

We NEED 3 pt shooting from the 4 spot...even if Ayton develops a 3 pt shot, that is a necessity in today's game.

Okongwu is a guy you play at small ball C, or maybe with a guy like Towns or Jokic who play a lot offensively from the outside. But he may have a hard time chasing PFs and not have the height/length to guard bigger C's.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #562 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Sun May 17, 2020 10:17 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Speaking of these, With respect to Jalen Smith. I think, even at 10, Or in a trade back scenario, IF both Toppin and Okungwu are already off the board, I think you just have to take Jalen Smith

Jalen Smith would be a solid pick, especially if the decent PGs are off the board. I might take him over someone like Cole Anthony even.

Kevin O'Connor compares Jalen to Serge Ibaka.

Jalen Smith measures out well against Paul Reed...Reed a tad better on defense and at moving the ball, but Jalen Smith a far better 3 pt shooter and from 2 pt range. Just far more efficient on offense. Great shot blocker/rim protector too.

Comparison with Paul Reed. http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=paul-reed--jalen-smith

I'd probably even prefer him to Okongwu. Adding him into the comparison you can see he is equal defensively to the others, but worse offensively for today's game because he doesn't shoot the 3. His TS% may be higher, but that's because he doesn't shoot 3s, and for 3s to help TS% for a big, they need to hit 40% or so since they usually finish around 60% or better from inside.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=onyeka-okongwu--paul-reed--jalen-smith

We NEED 3 pt shooting from the 4 spot...even if Ayton develops a 3 pt shot, that is a necessity in today's game.

Okongwu is a guy you play at small ball C, or maybe with a guy like Towns or Jokic who play a lot offensively from the outside. But he may have a hard time chasing PFs and not have the height/length to guard bigger C's.

Jalen Smith is Taj Gibson with 3 point range. I'm not a big believer in his ceiling, though I definitely understand the appeal. I think Okongwu might be Kemp, and Reed might be a DPOY guy.

I wouldn't draft Cole Anthony anywhere. I don't see what everyone else sees. I'd take all of these guys over him easy.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #563 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Sun May 17, 2020 10:36 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Speaking of these, With respect to Jalen Smith. I think, even at 10, Or in a trade back scenario, IF both Toppin and Okungwu are already off the board, I think you just have to take Jalen Smith

Jalen Smith would be a solid pick, especially if the decent PGs are off the board. I might take him over someone like Cole Anthony even.

Kevin O'Connor compares Jalen to Serge Ibaka.

Jalen Smith measures out well against Paul Reed...Reed a tad better on defense and at moving the ball, but Jalen Smith a far better 3 pt shooter and from 2 pt range. Just far more efficient on offense. Great shot blocker/rim protector too.

Comparison with Paul Reed. http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=paul-reed--jalen-smith

I'd probably even prefer him to Okongwu. Adding him into the comparison you can see he is equal defensively to the others, but worse offensively for today's game because he doesn't shoot the 3. His TS% may be higher, but that's because he doesn't shoot 3s, and for 3s to help TS% for a big, they need to hit 40% or so since they usually finish around 60% or better from inside.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=onyeka-okongwu--paul-reed--jalen-smith

We NEED 3 pt shooting from the 4 spot...even if Ayton develops a 3 pt shot, that is a necessity in today's game.

Okongwu is a guy you play at small ball C, or maybe with a guy like Towns or Jokic who play a lot offensively from the outside. But he may have a hard time chasing PFs and not have the height/length to guard bigger C's.

Yeah, I agree. Definitely solid points man. I actually had this trade idea that was two parts for the Suns, Wherein we trade back:

Part 1
We trade the 10th pick to Boston for their 17/ 26/ 30th picks.

Part 2
We trade Oubre *( simply can't afford him at 20+ million potentially) to New York for Portis' 15 million expiring contract/ the 25th pick/ The Dallas unprotected 2021 first.

Once these trades are done pre draft, We then keep the 17th and 25th pick. And then package Diallo/ Okobo/ 26th and 30th picks to Denver for the 21st pick. Finally we now draft:

17- Jalen Smith
*( 3 and D shotblocking/ Floor spacing power forward).

21- Kira Lewis or Grant Riller
*( depending upon who's available). * ( Have Rubio mentor with on facilitating/ passing. *** Either can put immense pressure on the rim offensively and create immense gravity for our shooters. And can draw a lot of fouls too.

25- Tyler Bey
*( Backup small forward) behind Bridges. ** Bridges starts at the 3, And Tyler backs him up, And at times can play alongside of Bridges at the two , With Tyler at the 3, and Smith at the 4, And Baynes at the 5, that's lockdown perimeter defense and really tough stifling post defense too. And all can also hit the three consistently too. That's similar elite defense across the roster, not too different than what the warriors employed at times.

Now the best part:
Moving back and moving Oubre for an expiring, We decline Portis, Then use the 15 million, added into our current cap space, And add one of Ibaka ( mentor Smith)?? / Milsapp/ Or even Favors? 12-14 million *( Only a 1 yr deal with a 2nd year team option). This will give us a starting caliber veteran power forward to help us improve and hopefully make the playoffs?? We can also add either Bryn Forbes or Alec Burks perhaps, Then resign Baynes and Kaminsky going over the cap with our bird rights.

In 2021, We have expiring contracts/ two 2021 first round picks / and a group of high end talent on low cost high value contracts to use to either move up in the draft, OR package in a trade for an all star caliber franchise piece to add to our core. Maybe we trade for one of:

Anthony Davis/ Giannis/ Bradley Beal/ Victor Oladipo/ Jrue Holiday, Donovan Mitchell etc?????

Ghost of Kleine · Post #564 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon May 18, 2020 2:02 am

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Speaking of these, With respect to Jalen Smith. I think, even at 10, Or in a trade back scenario, IF both Toppin and Okungwu are already off the board, I think you just have to take Jalen Smith

Jalen Smith would be a solid pick, especially if the decent PGs are off the board. I might take him over someone like Cole Anthony even.

Kevin O'Connor compares Jalen to Serge Ibaka.

Jalen Smith measures out well against Paul Reed...Reed a tad better on defense and at moving the ball, but Jalen Smith a far better 3 pt shooter and from 2 pt range. Just far more efficient on offense. Great shot blocker/rim protector too.

Comparison with Paul Reed. http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=paul-reed--jalen-smith

I'd probably even prefer him to Okongwu. Adding him into the comparison you can see he is equal defensively to the others, but worse offensively for today's game because he doesn't shoot the 3. His TS% may be higher, but that's because he doesn't shoot 3s, and for 3s to help TS% for a big, they need to hit 40% or so since they usually finish around 60% or better from inside.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=onyeka-okongwu--paul-reed--jalen-smith

We NEED 3 pt shooting from the 4 spot...even if Ayton develops a 3 pt shot, that is a necessity in today's game.

Okongwu is a guy you play at small ball C, or maybe with a guy like Towns or Jokic who play a lot offensively from the outside. But he may have a hard time chasing PFs and not have the height/length to guard bigger C's.

Jalen Smith is Taj Gibson with 3 point range. I'm not a big believer in his ceiling, though I definitely understand the appeal. I think Okongwu might be Kemp, and Reed might be a DPOY guy.

I wouldn't draft Cole Anthony anywhere. I don't see what everyone else sees. I'd take all of these guys over him easy.

Interesting perspectives on the big man, I do also really like Paul Reed too, Again, It's just that Jalen Smith measures out a bit better with more size and weight, And is much farther along defensively. It's a really interesting dynamic in that they both provide rim protection and rebounding, But Reed is better defensively and Smith is much better offensively! Now whilst I can't really agree on the Taj Gibson comp, As Jalen Smith is a better shooter, has better size, Although not as big of a wingspan, And is a better free throw shooter as well.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=jalen-smith--taj-gibson

And in college, Gibson, Although a great shotblocker for his size, Had no three point shot whatsoever, And throughout his nba career, He never shot better than 32% and is still mediocre on his free throws at 70%. And has pedestrian career averages of:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gibsota01.html

9 points / 6 rebounds/ and 1 block. I see Smith being infinitely better and more productive. I'll stay with my Ibaka comp. Also the comp given to him by a number of the draft experts as well. :wink:

And for the Ibaka comp:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ibakase01.html It's hard to find anything prior to his draft with Oklahoma. But over his nba career,
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ibakase01.html
His averages were:

Ibaka
FG% 51/ 2ptFG% 54/ 3 point % 36/ Free throw % 76/ and 12 points/ 7 rebounds/ 2 blocks. EFG% 57/ TS% 59. Career per of 17.6? And a career BPM of 0.7

Jalen Smith
http://www.tankathon.com/players/jalen-smith
15 points/ 10 rebounds/ 2.5 blocks. And FG% 53/ TS% 62%/ EFG% 59/ 3pt% 36%/ Free throw % 75. With a PER of 29.3 and a BPM of 12.3.
Comparisons:
https://nbadraft.theringer.com

SHADES OF: Serge Ibaka, Kelly Olynyk, Thomas Bryant

https://lastwordonprobasketball.com/2020/03/17/jalen-smith-2020-nba-draft-profile/

NBA Player Comparison

Serge Ibaka. Smith is not quite as good defensively as a young Ibaka, but the offensive games are nearly identical. Smith definitely has a role in the league and should have a nice career

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/jalen-smith.html?m=1

Comparisons
P.J. Brown
a better Anthony Randolph

Now with Paul Reed, The most consistent comps that I've come across are :
https://lastwordonprobasketball.com/2020/04/05/paul-reed-2020-nba-draft-profile/
NBA Player Comparison

Reed at this moment is a poor man’s Pascal Siakam.
They are very similar in body frame (Reed is 6’9”, 220 pounds, while Siakam is 6’9”, 230 pounds) and they have both showed the best is yet to come. It took a good amount of time for Siakam to get to all-star status.
http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/paul-reed.html?m=1

Comparisons
Darrell Arthur
Brice Johnson
Earl Clark

It's apparently in his energy, motor and fluidity for his size that Reed is compared to Pascal Siakim. However, He must absolutely fix the kinks to his shooting mechanics, And must improve his overall consistency as well. And that's why I have Jalen Smith ahead of him. Because he's ( Smith) simply more ready to contribute offensively by his ability to space the floor, And he's still also a high level shotblocker and rebounder as well. So ultimately, He has a more complete offensive package and is just further along in his overall game and skillset. Never the less, I would still be fairly ecstatic to walk out of the draft with either of the two in certain scenarios.

Finally, there side by side comparison:
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=paul-reed--jalen-smith

Again, I would be quite pleased with either prospect, Depending upon wherein we take them in the draft, And how we go about trading back for them.

I do emphatically endorse getting one of those 2 though prior to any other potential draft moves that we might choose to make, As their skillsets would prove invaluable to us at the 4. And IF we could be clever enough in a trade back scenario to be able to get a Jalen Smith (1st) or Paul Reed ( 2nd) And then snag either Kira Lewis, Or Grant Riller (* If the magic take Lewis at 15) and then package the leftover picks to move back up for Tyler Bey, Then I think that we'd have an unbelievably great draft night outcome. And we can still accomplish this in a variety of ways. :wink:

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #565 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Mon May 18, 2020 4:56 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Jalen Smith would be a solid pick, especially if the decent PGs are off the board. I might take him over someone like Cole Anthony even.

Kevin O'Connor compares Jalen to Serge Ibaka.

Jalen Smith measures out well against Paul Reed...Reed a tad better on defense and at moving the ball, but Jalen Smith a far better 3 pt shooter and from 2 pt range. Just far more efficient on offense. Great shot blocker/rim protector too.

Comparison with Paul Reed. http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=paul-reed--jalen-smith

I'd probably even prefer him to Okongwu. Adding him into the comparison you can see he is equal defensively to the others, but worse offensively for today's game because he doesn't shoot the 3. His TS% may be higher, but that's because he doesn't shoot 3s, and for 3s to help TS% for a big, they need to hit 40% or so since they usually finish around 60% or better from inside.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=onyeka-okongwu--paul-reed--jalen-smith

We NEED 3 pt shooting from the 4 spot...even if Ayton develops a 3 pt shot, that is a necessity in today's game.

Okongwu is a guy you play at small ball C, or maybe with a guy like Towns or Jokic who play a lot offensively from the outside. But he may have a hard time chasing PFs and not have the height/length to guard bigger C's.

Jalen Smith is Taj Gibson with 3 point range. I'm not a big believer in his ceiling, though I definitely understand the appeal. I think Okongwu might be Kemp, and Reed might be a DPOY guy.

I wouldn't draft Cole Anthony anywhere. I don't see what everyone else sees. I'd take all of these guys over him easy.

Interesting perspectives on the big man, I do also really like Paul Reed too, Again, It's just that Jalen Smith measures out a bit better with more size and weight, And is much farther along defensively. It's a really interesting dynamic in that they both provide rim protection and rebounding, But Reed is better defensively and Smith is much better offensively! Now whilst I can't really agree on the Taj Gibson comp, As Jalen Smith is a better shooter, has better size, Although not as big of a wingspan, And is a better free throw shooter as well.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=jalen-smith--taj-gibson

And in college, Gibson, Although a great shotblocker for his size, Had no three point shot whatsoever, And throughout his nba career, He never shot better than 32% and is still mediocre on his free throws at 70%. And has pedestrian career averages of:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gibsota01.html

9 points / 6 rebounds/ and 1 block. I see Smith being infinitely better and more productive. I'll stay with my Ibaka comp. Also the comp given to him by a number of the draft experts as well.

And for the Ibaka comp:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ibakase01.html It's hard to find anything prior to his draft with Oklahoma. But over his nba career,
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ibakase01.html
His averages were:

Ibaka
FG% 51/ 2ptFG% 54/ 3 point % 36/ Free throw % 76/ and 12 points/ 7 rebounds/ 2 blocks. EFG% 57/ TS% 59. Career per of 17.6? And a career BPM of 0.7

Jalen Smith
http://www.tankathon.com/players/jalen-smith
15 points/ 10 rebounds/ 2.5 blocks. And FG% 53/ TS% 62%/ EFG% 59/ 3pt% 36%/ Free throw % 75. With a PER of 29.3 and a BPM of 12.3.
Comparisons:
https://nbadraft.theringer.com
SHADES OF: Serge Ibaka, Kelly Olynyk, Thomas Bryant

https://lastwordonprobasketball.com/2020/03/17/jalen-smith-2020-nba-draft-profile/

NBA Player Comparison

Serge Ibaka. Smith is not quite as good defensively as a young Ibaka, but the offensive games are nearly identical. Smith definitely has a role in the league and should have a nice career

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/jalen-smith.html?m=1
Comparisons
P.J. Brown
a better Anthony Randolph

Now with Paul Reed, The most consistent comps that I've come across are :
https://lastwordonprobasketball.com/2020/04/05/paul-reed-2020-nba-draft-profile/
NBA Player Comparison

Reed at this moment is a poor man’s Pascal Siakam.
They are very similar in body frame (Reed is 6’9”, 220 pounds, while Siakam is 6’9”, 230 pounds) and they have both showed the best is yet to come. It took a good amount of time for Siakam to get to all-star status.
http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/paul-reed.html?m=1
Comparisons
Darrell Arthur
Brice Johnson
Earl Clark

It's apparently in his energy, motor and fluidity for his size that Reed is compared to Pascal Siakim. However, He must absolutely fix the kinks to his shooting mechanics, And must improve his overall consistency as well. And that's why I have Jalen Smith ahead of him. Because he's ( Smith) simply more ready to contribute offensively by his ability to space the floor, And he's still also a high level shotblocker and rebounder as well. So ultimately, He has a more complete offensive package and is just further along in his overall game and skillset. Never the less, I would still be fairly ecstatic to walk out of the draft with either of the two in certain scenarios.

Finally, there side by side comparison:
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=paul-reed--jalen-smith

Again, I would be quite pleased with either prospect, Depending upon wherein we take them in the draft, And how we go about trading back for them. I do emphatically endorse getting one of those 2 though prior to any other potential draft moves that we might choose to make, As their skillsets would prove invaluable to us at the 4. And IF we could be clever enough in a trade back scenario to be able to get a Jalen Smith (1st) or Paul Reed ( 2nd) And then snag either Kira Lewis, Or Grant Riller (* If the magic take Lewis at 15) and then package the leftover picks to move back up for Tyler Bey, Then I think that we'd have an unbelievably great draft night outcome. And we can still accomplish this in a variety of ways.

I agree about the hitch in Reed's shot being a big problem. As far as comparisons to NBA players, he certainly looks a lot like Siakam with the way he moves, and the fact that he can handle the ball. Siakam developed a ton in his first few years in the league, and you just can't project that type of development from anyone. I don't think Reed has a great feel on offense, so I don't expect him to ever be particularly good on that end, though I do think there's a good chance he'll figure out the 3 ball.

Comparing Jalen Smith to Ibaka is weird to me, because I don't see the lankiness or the athleticism of Ibaka. The primary attraction of Smith to me is the 3 ball and the overall efficiency. Smith looks like an old-school PF to me = modern undersized C. Taj Gibson, PJ Brown is actually pretty good, Antonio Davis, Horace Grant (because goggles), plus the 3 ball. Not knocking that, but I don't see a guy who's going to drive, break down defenses, create plays. And on defense, I think he'll be an effective rebounder and solid defender, but I don't see him replicating his block rate at the NBA level or being a game-changer on that end.

At some point you just have to ditch the mocks and vids and write-ups. I feel like I do a better job when I focus on statistical production and the eye test. Though Reed is older, I feel like he has a longer way to go, but a higher ceiling. I just like the idea of adding a guy with his unique gifts to our squad, though I don't think he'll be very useful for us until he improves that J, which will probably take a couple years.

The good news about all the guys we're discussing - Reed, Smith, Okongwu, Toppin - is that they all seem to be real high-character, intelligent players. One of Okongwu or Toppin might still be there where we pick, and Smith and Reed almost certainly will be: one of them almost certainly will even if we move down.

You know, GoK, eventually you're going to have to deal with the fact that we're likely to select only one player in this draft. Maaybe a mid-second rounder since a few teams own so many of them and will likely be willing to offload - and in that case, Grant Riller is not likely to remain on what remains of our board... though Tyler Bey might, as he's just the sort of player that GMs tend to pass up - the type who will have to work harder than most to earn minutes in this league. And dude, you gotta start identifying some players you DON'T like because at times, it seems that you think this draft is stacked with players who will populate the league's rosters for the next fifteen years. Most of these guys won't make it!

Post #566 » by **bwgood77** » Mon May 18, 2020 5:31 pm

I expect a few role players coming out of this draft. Maybe a future all star or two but I wouldn't even venture to guess who. No one gets me that excited. Toppin's offense is very nice, as he can obviously finish, but he's also the best 3 pt shooter of the PFs by quite a bit and probably the best passer. Would need him to grow on defense but if Ayton can, maybe Toppin can. He is unlikely to be there though along with Halliburton. I'm sure we end up taking someone none of us are really talking about or expecting though....or trading the pick for a vet.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #567 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Mon May 18, 2020 7:41 pm

bwgood77 wrote:I expect a few role players coming out of this draft. Maybe a future all star or two but I wouldn't even venture to guess who. No one gets me that excited. Toppin's offense is very nice, as he can obviously finish, but he's also the best 3 pt shooter of the PFs by quite a bit and probably the best passer. Would need him to grow on defense but if Ayton can, maybe Toppin can. He is unlikely to be there though along with Halliburton. I'm sure we end up taking someone none of us are really talking about or expecting though....or trading the pick for a vet.

The big difference between Toppin and Ayton in terms of projecting their defense is that Ayton's physical tools and potential were on full display in college: he was just marred by poor decisionmaking and lack of awareness. But I watch Toppin and I see a guy whose physical attributes are simultaneously responsible for both his freakish offensive potential and his defensive shortcomings. Something about the way he's built tells me that even if I were the right size and studied his game, I wouldn't be able to guard him, but he wouldn't be very hard to shake, no matter how much work he put into improving on that end. The way he moves makes it hard to mirror him - and hard for him to mirror others. It's like his legs begin up at his waist. He's a high stepper. I don't know how else to put it.

I don't have a great comp for Toppin. In terms of style, I'd say a less-physically imposing Amare with a three, better handles, and worse D... but all those qualifications makes Amare not a good comp. In terms of productivity and impact, maybe John Collins, but again, worse D and rebounding, more playmaking.

I can't see this FO passing him up if he's available where we pick. I think he'd help our team immediately, and hell, given how much better Deandre looked on D than O this season, perhaps we'd be better off adding Toppin's offense regardless. I don't think Reed would help us any time soon: I'm just in awe of his potential as a long, athletic defender. I admit he's not worthy of being drafted before Toppin, and he should probably go behind Smith as well. Even in a weak draft, I could see Reed lasting until, oh, I don't know... #27?

Slim Charless · Post #568 » by **Slim Charless** » Mon May 18, 2020 9:08 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I expect a few role players coming out of this draft. Maybe a future all star or two but I wouldn't even venture to guess who. No one gets me that excited. Toppin's offense is very nice, as he can obviously finish, but he's also the best 3 pt shooter of the PFs by quite a bit and probably the best passer. Would need him to grow on defense but if Ayton can, maybe Toppin can. He is unlikely to be there though along with Halliburton. I'm sure we end up taking someone none of us are really talking about or expecting though....or trading the pick for a vet.

The big difference between Toppin and Ayton in terms of projecting their defense is that Ayton's physical tools and potential were on full display in college: he was just marred by poor decisionmaking and lack of awareness. But I watch Toppin and I see a guy whose physical attributes are simultaneously responsible for both his freakish offensive potential and his defensive shortcomings. Something about the way he's built tells me that even if I were the right size and studied his game, I wouldn't be able to guard him, but he wouldn't be very hard to shake, no matter how much work he put into improving on that end. The way he moves makes it hard to mirror him - and hard for him to mirror others. It's like his legs begin up at his waist. He's a high stepper. I don't know how else to put it.

I don't have a great comp for Toppin. In terms of style, I'd say a less-physically imposing Amare with a three, better handles, and worse D... but all those qualifications makes Amare not a good comp. In terms of productivity and impact, maybe John Collins, but again, worse D and rebounding, more playmaking.

I can't see this FO passing him up if he's available where we pick. I think he'd help our team immediately, and hell, given how much better Deandre looked on D than O this season, perhaps we'd be better off adding Toppin's offense regardless. I don't think Reed would help us any time soon: I'm just in awe of his potential as a long, athletic defender. I admit he's not worthy of being drafted before Toppin, and he should probably go behind Smith as well. Even in a weak draft, I could see Reed lasting until, oh, I don't know... #27?

Ya I'd agree with this. Toppin seems way more focused on the offensive end, tho idk if he can do what prime STAT did which was be the best big man in the league. That being said he has a 3 shot which is needed at our PF spot. This is even more important to allow Ayton to operate in the paint. Toppins lack of D isn't that big a deal with Ayton looking like a (hopefully) future all-nba defender.

Unfortunately I don't think we'll even have a shot at him where we are. If we can move up-maybe using KO to get into the top 3 then it can happen but idk about him falling to 10. Id love to grab Okgangwu if he can drop. His athleticism would fit w/ us nicely and wouldn't need alot of shots to be effective.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #569 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Tue May 19, 2020 4:10 am

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Jalen Smith is Taj Gibson with 3 point range. I'm not a big believer in his ceiling, though I definitely understand the appeal. I think Okongwu might be Kemp, and Reed might be a DPOY guy.

I wouldn't draft Cole Anthony anywhere. I don't see what everyone else sees. I'd take all of these guys over him easy.

Interesting perspectives on the big man, I do also really like Paul Reed too, Again, It's just that Jalen Smith measures out a bit better with more size and weight, And is much farther along defensively. It's a really interesting dynamic in that they both provide rim protection and rebounding, But Reed is better defensively and Smith is much better offensively! Now whilst I can't really agree on the Taj Gibson comp, As Jalen Smith is a better shooter, has better size, Although not as big of a wingspan, And is a better free throw shooter as well.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=jalen-smith--taj-gibson

And in college, Gibson, Although a great shotblocker for his size, Had no three point shot whatsoever, And throughout his nba career, He never shot better than 32% and is still mediocre on his free throws at 70%. And has pedestrian career averages of:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gibsota01.html

9 points / 6 rebounds/ and 1 block. I see Smith being infinitely better and more productive. I'll stay with my Ibaka comp. Also the comp given to him by a number of the draft experts as well.

And for the Ibaka comp:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ibakase01.html It's hard to find anything prior to his draft with Oklahoma. But over his nba career,
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ibakase01.html
His averages were:

Ibaka
FG% 51/ 2ptFG% 54/ 3 point % 36/ Free throw % 76/ and 12 points/ 7 rebounds/ 2 blocks. EFG% 57/ TS% 59. Career per of 17.6? And a career BPM of 0.7

Jalen Smith
http://www.tankathon.com/players/jalen-smith
15 points/ 10 rebounds/ 2.5 blocks. And FG% 53/ TS% 62%/ EFG% 59/ 3pt% 36%/ Free throw % 75. With a PER of 29.3 and a BPM of 12.3.
Comparisons:
https://nbadraft.theringer.com
SHADES OF: Serge Ibaka, Kelly Olynyk, Thomas Bryant

https://lastwordonprobasketball.com/2020/03/17/jalen-smith-2020-nba-draft-profile/

NBA Player Comparison

Serge Ibaka. Smith is not quite as good defensively as a young Ibaka, but the offensive games are nearly identical. Smith definitely has a role in the league and should have a nice career

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/jalen-smith.html?m=1
Comparisons
P.J. Brown
a better Anthony Randolph

Now with Paul Reed, The most consistent comps that I've come across are :
https://lastwordonprobasketball.com/2020/04/05/paul-reed-2020-nba-draft-profile/
NBA Player Comparison

Reed at this moment is a poor man’s Pascal Siakam.
They are very similar in body frame (Reed is 6’9”, 220 pounds, while Siakam is 6’9”, 230 pounds) and they have both showed the best is yet to come. It took a good amount of time for Siakam to get to all-star status.
http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/paul-reed.html?m=1
Comparisons
Darrell Arthur
Brice Johnson
Earl Clark

It's apparently in his energy, motor and fluidity for his size that Reed is compared to Pascal Siakim. However, He must absolutely fix the kinks to his shooting mechanics, And must improve his overall consistency as well. And that's why I have Jalen Smith ahead of him. Because he's ( Smith) simply more ready to contribute offensively by his ability to space the floor, And he's still also a high level shotblocker and rebounder as well. So ultimately, He has a more complete offensive package and is just further along in his overall game and skillset. Never the less, I would still be fairly ecstatic to walk out of the draft with either of the two in certain scenarios.

Finally, there side by side comparison:
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=paul-reed--jalen-smith

Again, I would be quite pleased with either prospect, Depending upon wherein we take them in the draft, And how we go about trading back for them. I do emphatically endorse getting one of those 2 though prior to any other potential draft moves that we might choose to make, As their skillsets would prove invaluable to us at the 4. And IF we could be clever enough in a trade back scenario to be able to get a Jalen Smith (1st) or Paul Reed ( 2nd) And then snag either Kira Lewis, Or Grant Riller (* If the magic take Lewis at 15) and then package the leftover picks to move back up for Tyler Bey, Then I think that we'd have an unbelievably great draft night outcome. And we can still accomplish this in a variety of ways.

I agree about the hitch in Reed's shot being a big problem. As far as comparisons to NBA players, he certainly looks a lot like Siakam with the way he moves, and the fact that he can handle the ball. Siakam developed a ton in his first few years in the league, and you just can't project that type of development from anyone. I don't think Reed has a great feel on offense, so I don't expect him to ever be particularly good on that end, though I do think there's a good chance he'll figure out the 3 ball.

Comparing Jalen Smith to Ibaka is weird to me, because I don't see the lankiness or the athleticism of Ibaka. The primary attraction of Smith to me is the 3 ball and the overall efficiency. Smith looks like an old-school PF to me = modern undersized C. Taj Gibson, PJ Brown is actually pretty good, Antonio Davis, Horace Grant (because goggles), plus the 3 ball. Not knocking that, but I don't see a guy who's going to drive, break down defenses, create plays. And on defense, I think he'll be an effective rebounder and solid defender, but I don't see him replicating his block rate at the NBA level or being a game-changer on that end.

At some point you just have to ditch the mocks and vids and write-ups. I feel like I do a better job when I focus on statistical production and the eye test. Though Reed is older, I feel like he has a longer way to go, but a higher ceiling. I just like the idea of adding a guy with his unique gifts to our squad, though I don't think he'll be very useful for us until he improves that J, which will probably take a couple years.

The good news about all the guys we're discussing - Reed, Smith, Okongwu, Toppin - is that they all seem to be real high-character, intelligent players. One of Okongwu or Toppin might still be there where we pick, and Smith and Reed almost certainly will be: one of them almost certainly will even if we move down.

You know, GoK, eventually you're going to have to deal with the fact that we're likely to select only one player in this draft. Maaybe a mid-second rounder since a few teams own so many of them and will likely be willing to offload - and in that case, Grant Riller is not likely to remain on what remains of our board... though Tyler Bey might, as he's just the sort of player that GMs tend to pass up - the type who will have to work harder than most to earn minutes in this league. And dude, you gotta start identifying some players you DON'T like because at times, it seems that you think this draft is stacked with players who will populate the league's rosters for the next fifteen years. Most of these guys won't make it!

Great post!

I definitely agree on all points man! And you're definitely right that I have to eventually settle on the likelihood of the Suns only choosing one player too. :wink:

It's just hard for me right now as I recognize that we need help at multiple positions, And Jones himself even indicated that we need to address multiple issues throughout the roster. So with that being said, And this draft not showing much potential for a particular star player, Especially wherein we will pick ( sans a miracle moving up into the top 5), AND also with having to consider the reduced cap and resulting restriction upon our free agency plans, I just personally see the best course of action as to trade back and address the roster depth at those positions Jones mentioned with low cost rookie scale contracts that would give us additional cap space to apply to a particular player. Whilst also replenishing assets for a future trade in which we potentially move these high talent/ low cost assets for an actual 3rd all star veteran in 2021.

For me, I see this draft posessing many prospects with at least one single elite skill, and as Jones mentioned, He's targeting prospects that possess an elite skill, And would be ready to contribute, And would be a bit on the older side basically. The problem is that due to the lockdown, We don't yet know the specific
range of the prospects or where we ourselves will be picking. But in any event, I'm fairly certain that we will see Jones surprise everyone and take two prospects in a trade back scenario. One to address defense, And one to address scoring and playmaking.

Now just off the top of my head, One particular player reasonably encompasses the majority of those mentioned traits. That player being Saddiq Bey. So I see Jones targeting him primarily. And then maybe a late first, Early 2nd round prospect again. That prospect likely being either Tre Jones or Malachi Flynn. Due to their plug and play game ready skillsets, And their high basketball IQs. But eventually we'll be able to more accurately target coveted prospects once the lottery actually happens. Until then, All we really have to go off of is hints and speculation from Jones interview, and in his discussing our needs. Again, When considering that he indicated/ identified prospects with elite skillsets, A high IQ, A bit older and Ready to contribute. That also sounds like Tyler Bey to me as well??? :dontknow:

But I am adamant that it will be 2 prospects and /or a trade back scenario to address our multiple critical positional needs. Whilst maintaining some modicum of cap flexibility. That's why I am actually in favor of the possibility of a Phoenix/New York trade above all others.
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7298232

Oubre is an expiring contract that we likely can't afford to resign anyways, And Portis is a 15 million expiring contract ( Team option) that we'll decline, to add one of Milsapp/ Ibaka/ Favors (* At 12-14 million) on a 1 yr deal. And we get the 25th pick ( Tyler Bey or Patrick Williams) as Oubres' temporary replacement? And the Dallas unprotected 2021 first **( A huge asset in a immensely loaded draft). And using Portis' expiring contract ( Team option declined) would give us an additional 15 million in cap space to add a starting caliber 3 and D defensive veteran 4 next to Ayton. And at 10, We can draft a future starting caliber guard in either Hayes/ Haliburton/ or Anthony ( depending upon Whoever falls to us). Or at worst Kira Lewis or Grant Riller. So, IF DONE CORRECTLY, We walk out of draft night having addressed our needs at power forward/ backup small forward, and backup point guard as well. Whilst maintaining some cap space for a veteran backup shooting guard possibly. And respectfully, We only add 2 players tops. :wink:

I would love to add Tyler Bey by the way! Even in the early 2nd round.

Lastly, There are definitely a number of players that I don't like:

Tyreese Haliburton
I don't like his weak overall frame, lack of strength, lack of athleticism or his lack of an in between game. I think he's really going to struggle against stronger, faster and ultimately more athletic opposition/ defenders.

Cole Anthony
I don't like his tunnel vision, poor shot selection, poor percentages, lack of adequate playmaking.

RJ Hampton
I don't like his lack of any identifiable elite skillset. Everything he does is fairly mediocre so far. And he hasn't really shown any special abilities to or skills.

Isaac Okro
I really don't like his lack of a consistent offensive game, Really poor free throw shooting, and poor assist to turnover ratio.

Precious Achiuwa
I really don't like his lack of shooting/ atrocious free throw percentage, and his really high turnover ratio.

Tyreese Maxey
I don't like his tunnel vision, wreckless playing style, poor 3 or percentage, And lack of primary playmaking.

Saddiq Bey
I don't like his lack of burst or elite athleticism, his poor isolation scoring skills, his poor rebounding and shotblocking rates for a 6'8 player with a 6'11 wingspan.

Kira Lewis**
I don't like his poor assist to turnover ratio, wreckless playing style and his sometimes suspect defense. But in all fairness, he's still a very solid option outside of the lottery.

Jalen Smith
I don't like his stuff play, rudimentary ball handling skills and occasional lapse of defensive awareness.

Paul Reed
I don't like his quirky shooting mechanics ( preventing his massive improvement), his sc light/ weak frame, And his overall offensive inconsistencies.

Jaden McDaniels
I don't like his lack of a consistent motor and lack of intensity at times, poor decision making.

Tyler Bey
I don't like his lack of isolation scoring ability, poor offensive skills, and really bad assist/ turnover ratio.

Grant Riller**
I don't like his mediocre defensive effort at times, or his poor assist/ turnover ratio. But aside from those two things, Much like Lewis, He's actually a very solid and quite elite option outside of the lottery.

And there's still many more prospects that I'm not overtly fond of. But I do favor certain prospects for their respective elite skillsets that can fit well and contribute to our roster, Whilst potentially addressing our critical roster issues as well. :wink:

Ghost of Kleine · Post #570 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Thu May 21, 2020 1:46 pm

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WeekapaugGroove · Post #571 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Thu May 21, 2020 7:37 pm

I've tried a couple times to look at prospects but stare at them for like 5 minutes and just mumble 'I hope they find a trade' and then close the page. I like this draft less than last year and I hated that class.

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Desertfox · Post #572 » by **Desertfox** » Thu May 21, 2020 7:49 pm

My preference for this draft:

1) Trade draft pick for Markannen
2) Trade draft pick for Gordon
3) Draft Toppin
4) Trade draft pick for someone else

Ghost of Kleine · Post #573 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Thu May 21, 2020 9:48 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:I've tried a couple times to look at prospects but stare at them for like 5 minutes and just mumble 'I hope they find a trade' and then close the page. I like this draft less than last year and I hated that class.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I hear ya to a degree man! :nod:

Even though last year, You had players like Zion,/Ja Morant/ and RJ Barrett at the top of the draft,
And subsequently hidden talents such as Brandon Clarke/ Tyler Herro and even PJ Washington/ Nickiel Alexander Walker/ **Cam Johnson
** (Cam , Whom we likely could've still gotten in the late teens- early 20s' ( Due to percieved injury concerns)/ Nik Claxton/ Eric Paschall, etc. This draft is seemingly lacking top tier talent at the top. But even IF that does turn out to be the case, my overall perspective is that IF a front office only chooses to" do it homework" and scout prospects diligently, Then at the very least, You should be able to add a solid positional contributor to your rotation. These players also being on minimal rookie scale contracts inflate their value to their respective teams greatly as well ( **depending upon their levels of production). So IF we have a trade in the works that actually benefits us greatly, Then yes! good, Get it done, But IF not, Then even with this draft in particular, There are at the very minimum, rotation level contributors with many having at least one or more ELITE attributes to offer the team that drafts them. But even apart from that, IF you can find a solid contributor to an area of positional need, And on a cheap rookie scale contract, Then it's going to prove very beneficial to that team. Especially when considering both the current potential restrictive salary implications due to the lockdown, And additionally that respective teams anticipated impending core extensions. Lastly, You being able to fill lesser needed positional roles with cheap rookie scale contributors, Then allow that team to not only add valuable bench depth at minimal cost, But also allow that team to now field much larger offers to higher caliber free agents of more critical positional need.

So in that regard, I have an reasonably optimistic view of this draft's potential benefit to us. Again, providing our front office and scouting department actually do a professional and in depth job of researching potential targets.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #574 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Thu May 21, 2020 11:21 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:I've tried a couple times to look at prospects but stare at them for like 5 minutes and just mumble 'I hope they find a trade' and then close the page. I like this draft less than last year and I hated that class.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I hear ya to a degree man!
Even though last year, You had players like Zion,/Ja Morant/ and RJ Barrett at the top of the draft,
And subsequently hidden talents such as Brandon Clarke/ Tyler Herro and even PJ Washington/ Nickiel Alexander Walker/ **Cam Johnson
** (Cam , Whom we likely could've still gotten in the late teens- early 20s' ( Due to percieved injury concerns)/ Nik Claxton/ Eric Paschall, etc. This draft is seemingly lacking top tier talent at the top. But even IF that does turn out to be the case, my overall perspective is that IF a front office only chooses to" do it homework" and scout prospects diligently, Then at the very least, You should be able to add a solid positional contributor to your rotation. These players also being on minimal rookie scale contracts inflate their value to their respective teams greatly as well ( **depending upon their levels of production). So IF we have a trade in the works that actually benefits us greatly, Then yes! good, Get it done, But IF not, Then even with this draft in particular, There are at the very minimum, rotation level contributors with many having at least one or more ELITE attributes to offer the team that drafts them. But even apart from that, IF you can find a solid contributor to an area of positional need, And on a cheap rookie scale contract, Then it's going to prove very beneficial to that team. Especially when considering both the current potential restrictive salary implications due to the lockdown, And additionally that respective teams anticipated impending core extensions. Lastly, You being able to fill lesser needed positional roles with cheap rookie scale contributors, Then allow that team to not only add valuable bench depth at minimal cost, But also allow that team to now field much larger offers to higher caliber free agents of more critical positional need.

So in that regard, I have an reasonably optimistic view of this draft's potential benefit to us. Again, providing our front office and scouting department actually do a professional and in depth job of researching potential targets.

Yeah this class definitely doesn't have a Zion and might not even have a Ja.

While I didn't love last year's class I actually kind of liked some prospects like Washington and Coby White. I'm having a hard time finding favorites in this class. I have a buddy who works in the scouting industry and he really likes Haliburton.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Ghost of Kleine · Post #575 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Fri May 22, 2020 2:43 am

Desertfox wrote:My preference for this draft:

1) Trade draft pick for Markannen
2) Trade draft pick for Gordon
3) Draft Toppin
4) Trade draft pick for someone else

My preference for this draft:

- Option 1.
Find a trade for either Markannen or Gordon. :wink:

- Option 2.
Draft an Elite 3 and D power forward. Or an Elite playmaking Guard ( at 10). ** Then trade some combination of Okobo / Diallo/ or Kaminsky for a late first- early 2nd round pick to add additional shooting:

- Saddiq Bey. ( Villanova) 45% from three.
-Aaron Nesmith. ( Vanderbilt) 52% from three.
- Immanuel Quickly. 41% from three.
- Desmond Bane. ( TCU) 42% from three.
- Cory Kispert. ( Gonzaga) 43% from three.
- Sam Merrill. ( Utah State) 41% from three.
- Markus Howard. ( Marquette) 41.2% from three.
- Stefan Gonzales. ( UC Davis) 47%from three.
- Jake Toolson. ( BYU) 47% from three.
- Dru Kukhausen. ( Mcneese state) 45% from three.
- John Petty. ( Alabama) 44% from three.
- Terrell Gomez. ( Cal state Northridge) 44% from three.

Then in free agency, pursue whichever position of the point guard or power forward that we didn't address through the draft.

- Option 3.
Trade back in the draft ( using the 10th pick) for additional assets to both add depth and address multiple roster issues. Then in free agency, pursue one whichever particular starting level veteran wasn't addressed in the draft. My favorite scenarios are:

Boston-
The 10 for their 17th/ 26th/30th picks.

17- Draft Kira Lewis or Grant Riller.
26- Draft Jalen Smith or Paul Reed.
30- Draft Immanuel Quickly or Desmond Bane.

Orlando-
The 10th pick for James Ennis, Michael Carter Williams, and the 15th pick. (* MCW will be our backup guard) so..........

15- Draft Jalen Smith or Paul Reed or Patrick Williams. And then trade some combination of Diallo/ Kaminsky/ Okobo and a future conditional 2nd round pick to Utah for the 24th pick OR to Dallas for the 31st pick.

IF AT 24- Draft Tyler Bey or Jaden McDaniels.
IF AT 31- Draft Leandro Balmaro or Elijah Hughes?

Minnesota-
The 10th pick for Omari Spellman/ the 16th pick/ 33rd pick.

16- Draft either Jalen Smith or Paul Reed or Patrick Williams.
33- Draft Malachi Flynn or Cassius Winston or Payton Pritchard?
*** Trade some combo of : Diallo/ Okobo/ Kaminsky ( team option) either Utah or Charlotte?
** IF Utah, Then at 24.
- Draft *** Tyler Bey.
If 32 or after, Draft Daniel Oturu or Zeke Nnaji perhaps?

Dallas-
The 10th pick and Kaminsky or Diallo for Seth Curry or Delon Wright/ 18th /31st picks.

18- Draft Jalen Smith or Paul Reed.
31- Tyler Bey ( ** IF he falls) or Jaden McDaniels or Elijah Hughes?

Option 4- :-?

Trade the 10th pick to Denver for Monte Morris/ Kieta bates Diop/ and the 21st pick.

21- Draft Kira Lewis *( IF HE FALLS) or Tre Jones ( at 24).
* Then Trade some combination of our just acquired *Monte Morris/ Kieta Bates Diop/ Diallo to either Utah at 24, Or Dallas at 31.

IF AT 24- Draft Jalen Smith or Paul Reed.
IF AT 31- Draft Jaden McDaniels or Patrick Williams or Precious Achiuwa?

******
Trade out out the draft for cap space and a 2021 first round pick.
Phoenix/ New York:
The 10th pick to New York for Reggie Bullock/ 25th pick/ Dallas 2021 unprotected first.

25- Draft Paul Reed or Patrick Williams or Precious Achiuwa. Then in free agency, Pursue either Jordan Clarkson or DJ Augustine. Although I much more prefer this version.
***********************************
- Kelly Oubre to New York for Bobby Portis' 15 million expiring contract ( Team Option) we'll decline. The 27th pick, And the Dallas 2021 unprotected first round pick.

27- Draft Tyler Bey or Jaden McDaniels. ( Oubre replacement). **Start Bridges at the 3.

10- Draft one of Hayes, Haliburton, Anthony or Lewis.

- Trade a combination of Okobo/Diallo/ and a future conditional 2nd to Dallas for the 31st pick.
31- Draft Immanuel Quickly or Desmond Bane.

Decline Portis' team option, And use the 15 million to sign one of Ibaka, Milsapp or Favors to a one year deal. Then resign Baynes and Kaminsky. Use the 2021 unprotected first either in a trade for a premium vet, Or in combination with ours to move up into the lottery for an ELITE high level talent. Then use the additional cap space in 2021 to extend Bridges and Ayton.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #576 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Fri May 22, 2020 4:44 am

bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Well, Booker is starting for the foreseeable future and as long as he's here, so....

Oh, I agree, which is why I generally don't talk about it. My mind explodes, though, when I read of this particular idea: replacing Rubio (last year's extremely successful free agent signing and best player) with another free agent this summer. Usually, the justification is - like every move proposed on this board and everywhere else, it seems - that we must make the situation for Devin Booker. And I just can't help but want to get people to stop staring at names on a screen and focus on what happens on the basketball court. And what happens on the court is, Rubio, Mikal and Ayton are the guys who win games for us. So don't get rid of those guys. Add to them.

We unlikely move Rubio either. He really has good chemistry with everyone and does all the little things, plus I can't think of any team with PG needs wanting to spend that much of the cap on him in trade. Orlando and NY need shooting...NY wants to add stars, or at least reserve cap space for them. Not many other teams need PGs. We can draft one this summer or next and let him watch Rubio for a year or two and get enough play to develop on the floor as well.

If we were to draft one next summer, I think barring some miracle, Wherein we move up into the top 2-3, We'd be choosing between:

2021
Cade Cunningham - 6-7 - Arlington, TX.
( Likely the #1 pick).

Caleb Love - 6-3 - UNC.
D.J. Carton - 6-1 - Marquette.
Devin Askew - 6-3 - Kentucky.
Tre Mann - 6-4 - Florida.
Sharife Cooper - 6-0 - Auburn.
Jeremy Roach - 6-3 - Duke.
Jalen Suggs - 6-5 - Gonzaga.
Adam Miller - 6-4 - Illinois.
Daishen Nix - 6-4 - G Leauge.
Casey Morsell - 6-2 - Virginia.
Andrew Nembhard - 6-4 - Florida.
Javonte Smart - 6-4 - LSU.
Quade Green - 6-1 - Washington.
Boogie Ellis - 6-2 - Memphis.
And of those listed, Really the only ones that we should even covet would be in order of value and potential to us.

1- Cade Cunningham- Ben Simmons.
2- Jeremy Roach- Kyle Lowry.
3- Jalen Suggs- Bigger/ Stronger Chauncey Billups.
4- Andrew Nembhard- A less athletic Lonzo Ball.
5- Devin Askew- Higher upside Andre Miller.
6- Caleb Love- Monta Ellis.
7- Javonte Smart- Stronger Reggie Jackson.
8- Adam Miller- Jamal Tinsley/ Deron Williams.
9- Tre Mann- Better Devin Harris/ Shades of Lillard.
10- Casey Morsell- Chauncey Billups.

***With special emphasis on Cunningham, Roach, Suggs, and Nembhard, And maybe Javonte Smart.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #577 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Fri May 22, 2020 2:34 pm

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Ghost of Kleine · Post #578 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Fri May 22, 2020 9:53 pm

Wilber85 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
nevetsov wrote:
Thanks for the info!

I don't think Okobo or Carter will be back next season, and I think Jerome needs another season as a fifth guard to prove himself rotation worthy. This doesn't exactly leave us with depth at either guard spot. But I do also concede that starting PF is our biggest weakness right now.

Saric would be a nice backup PF-C, but we have the option on Kaminsky too for $5m which would probably satisfy that role for half the price. Also, Cam Johnson figures to play a little backup PF too. So I think that if he can be used as a tradeable asset that it's something that may be explored.

I agree with Saric being a backup option at best. Also, IF we could trade actually trade him by resigning him and trading him for an asset and cap space, returning player, etc. Then we should absolutely do it. Especially IF we are intent on possibly resigning Oubre AND still being able to extend Bridges and Ayton. It's simply that we'll have to create cap space by moving or releasing some other players besides Oubre at that point. So with respect to that consideration, IF it is truly possible to resign him and then trade him, Then I'd look at these scenarios honestly. And for the record, I'd still really like Bjelica as Sarics' upgraded replacement!!! But again, I'd look at these scenarios possibly:

1-To Dallas-
Saric/ Diallo for Delon Wright and the 31st pick. Then at 31, We draft Paul Reed. ***And at 10, We draft either Aaron Nesmith or Devin Vassell.

2- To Utah-
*( Saric could be there budget version of Memhet Okur)!
Saric for The 24th pick/ Miye Oni **( I still really like this kids potential) He really just needs some playing time to develop! But his athleticism/potential is really ELITE at the 2 guard or as a combo guard.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/miye-oni-1.html

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24- Draft either Jalen Smith or Paul Reed or Patrick Williams. And at 10, Take one of Hayes, Haliburton, Anthony, or Lewis.

3- To Philly-
Saric for Mike Scott/ Furkan Korkmaz/ 34th pick.
34- Paul Reed or Reggie Perry or Xavier Tillman?
10- Take one of : Hayes, Haliburton, Anthony, or Kira Lewis.

4- To Chicago-
Both Dunn and Valentine are restricted! But perhaps they'd agree to the change?
Saric for Kris Dunn (* resigned and traded)/ Denzel Valentine (* resigned and traded)/ 47th pick. Draft either Killian Tillie or Cory Kispert? (Cory is similar to McDermott or Bogdanovic for Utah).

5- To Charlotte-
** Saric gets a starting role!
Saric for Jalen McDaniel 37% from three/ 32nd pick.
32- Draft Paul Reed or Xavier Tillman ( 4/5).
At 10, Take one of Hayes, Haliburton, Anthony or Kira Lewis.

6- To Indiana-
Saric for TJ Leaf/ TJ McConnell/ 50th pick.
50- Skylar Mays or Jalen Harris, or Mason Jones.
10- Draft either Jalen Smith ( 1st) or Paul Reed (2nd) or Patrick Williams ( 3rd).

7- Washington-
Saric for Ish Smith/ Isaac Bonga/ 37th pick.
37- Draft Cassius Stanley or Elijah Hughes.
10*** ( Now with Ish Smith) Draft either Jalen Smith (1st) or Paul Reed (2nd) or Patrick Williams (3rd).

I love all these draft picks hahahahahaha why would we trade Saric for garbage ?

Suns have had like 2 good draft picks in 10 years . What makes you seem like we find a gem in this crappy draft

I like saric, and if he gets more churn with Ayton, and rubio, plus we stay healthy we would be 8th seed !

Aside from his overall effort, Saric is an unathletic, slow and mediocre backup 4 with inconsistent shooting, That unless he starts hitting his shot CONSISTENTLY for a change and also finds a way to provide actual rim protection and a higher level of quality defense for us, He'll be nothing more than a overpaid net negative eating up crucial salary cap space that could be better applied to other areas of positional need. You never know what kind of production you will get from him, or at times Kaminsky either. Most of last season, He was a net negative for us when not hitting his shots, And couldn't stop any penetration or scoring at around the rim to save his life.

His entire value is predominantly predicated upon his ability to hit the three as a floor spacing big. And he's overall been wildly inconsistent and undependable in that regard. I mean do the math, There's obviously been a reason that this is his 3rd team in 5 years. :roll:

Next, Just because our past front office personnel have whiffed on more than a few picks over the years, doesn't mean you just quit utilizing such a cost effective tool for team improvement. People may be right for the most part when saying that the draft is " Hit or Miss "! But in all honesty, that applies mostly to the teams that go into it unprepared and / or haven't diligently done their research. Your chances of finding a quality prospect that can contribute are greatly amplified by the effort you put in to better understand your available options. If you notice, The best teams have great scouting staffs, or work very hard at their scouting and research to properly identify the prospects with the best overall statistics and skillsets that translate to the NBA. It's really not that much of a mystery if you do a proper in depth analysis. Gems, and/or undiscovered talent are littered all throughout the drafts continually! Again, You just have to put in reasonable effort to identify them. And to our benefit, This particular draft is loaded throughout with solid rotational contributors, As well as more than a few prospects with at least one or more elite tools in their "Toolbox" or games. And easily many hidden gems throughout the first and well into the 2nd round. For instance........

- Jalen Smith. Elite shotblocking, rebounding and weakside defense. But also is consistently hitting around 37% of his threes.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/jalen-smith
He's averaging around 15/10/ and 2.5 blocks. And .368 from three, Compared to Sarics'
12/6/ 0.2 blocks. And 356 from three.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/saricda01.html

And he'd be on a rookie scale contract ( cost control) for us! What is Saric expecting to be paid again (** IF we even consider keeping him at all)?? Probably around 8- 10 million, and likely going to want a starting role anyways? He played for us as a starter throughout the majority of this last season, And he sure didn't seem to help us get to the 8th seed, moreover, He again, wasn't even consistent for us. So why would we even resign him again? It's clear that you like Saric, And that's really fine. But the reality is that he's likely going to be gone. So we're basically trading him in order to at least get something for all the assets we basically spent to acquire him last summer! So more than likely, We WILL be looking to replace him at that position anyways, regardless of how chummy he might become with Ayton or Rubio.

A few more prospects mentioned for you to analyze more closely:
- Paul Reed.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/paul-reed
- Xavier Tillman.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/xavier-tillman
- Killian Tillie.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/killian-tillie
- Reggie Perry.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/reggie-perry
- Cassius Stanley.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/cassius-stanley
- Elijah Hughes.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/elijah-hughes
- http://www.tankathon.com/players/corey-kispert

So in all honesty, Which of these prospects in particular do you genuinely consider to be garbage?? Feel.free to choose any of the above mentioned names that you personally feel are unworthy or garbage. By the way, I'm curious! Exactly how much do you actually know about the 2020 draft prospects mentioned above, or any of the prospects in this draft anyways to make that proclamation. Are you aware of their respective skillsets and abilities, their elite talents, attributes or even their statistical production? Not to mention the overall intrinsic monetary value they would provide to us on their inexpensive cost controlled rookie scale contracts with respect to our interests in being able to not only resign Oubre, But also in the interest of maintaining cap flexibility going into 2021, So that we can also seek to extend both of Bridges and Ayton.

Honestly man, You can again feel free to point out any of the above mentioned trade suggestions, And I'll point out the greater overall value that may have escaped your view. Just choose one or more if you like? :dontknow:

Ghost of Kleine · Post #579 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Sat May 23, 2020 4:58 am

In2ition · Post #580 » by **In2ition** » Sat May 23, 2020 1:33 pm

I had a GSW fan propose a trade of their top 3 pick and trade exception from the Iggy trade for Kelly.
What do you think? You get cap room, but the higher pick is a higher cap hold on top of their own pick. Could be helpful in FA this yr.

Who do you prefer of the following prospects?