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2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch

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Ghost of Kleine
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#601 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:23 am

Weemsickew14 wrote:I think Devin Vassell and Jalen Smith are 2 names to keep an eye on. I really like Vassell as a backup 2 for Booker. He's an elite defender, knockdown shooter, and can create a little; he compares similarly to Mikal I believe, but has a little more on offense. Smith has been talked about quite a bit. Love his shooting stroke, size, and instincts. Would be happy with Vassell at 10, Smith at 10 would be similar to taking Cam Johnson at 11 last year, not too much of a reach. If we could get both we would add shooting and defense, but not playmaking like James Jones talked about.


That's true, But we still might have decent trade options, Wherein we could either trade back, or perhaps trade our minimal assets for a late first/ early 2nd. I believe that we still have Frank Kaminsky (* Team option)/ Diallo/ Okobo as potential trade assets. Also, Since Saric is on a qualifying offer, IF HE'S AGREEABLE? He can be traded to another team apparently.

Search Results
Featured snippet from the web

If a player chooses to sign the extended qualifying offer, the one-year deal becomes a standard NBA contract and the player hits free agency again the following season. Players that sign qualifying offers are unable to be traded without their consent due to other rules in the CBA pertaining to one-year contracts.Jun 27, 2019
Slam Online › nba › cba-explained-...
CBA Explained: Qualifying


So We could possibly do a number of things.

Option 1- *( Trade back option) We could just trade the 10th pick / Along with Kaminsky (*5 million Team option) which could be declined for additional cap space. Or Saric ( resigned for around 8 million) to the Celtics FOR Romeo Langford/ Vincent Poirer/ the 17th pick/ 30th picks.

17- You take Kira Lewis or Grant Riller. Then you trade Diallo/ Okobo and the 30th pick to Utah for the 24th pick.
24- You take either Jalen Smith or Paul Reed.

Option 2- Keep the 10th pick. But then resign and trade Saric and Jerome? to Philly for the 22nd pick.

10- Draft Devin Vassell or Saddiq Bey.
22- Draft Kira Lewis **( IF he falls) or Grant Riller or Malachi Flynn?
*** Trade Diallo and Okobo To Charlotte for the 32nd pick.
32- Draft Paul Reed or Killian Tillie?

Option 3- Trade the 10th pick/ Saric *( resigned at 8 million) or Kaminsky ( IF they prefer) / Diallo and Okobo to Dallas FOR the Delon Wright/ 18th pick/ 31st pick.

18- Draft Jalen Smith.
31- Draft Immanuel Quickly or Desmond Bane (** Knockdown shooting).

I really think that Saric would happily agree to be traded to either Philly *( again) Or Dallas, As they're both contenders, And he'd be getting around 8 million as well contractually. It would give a chance at starter's minutes with a contender, And he'd be getting a generous pay increase contractually. I know that most on here are against possibly adding more rookies, HOWEVER, These rookie scale contracts will become of immeasurable importance to us cap wise with our interest in being able to resign Oubre, As well as to be able to extend Bridges and Ayton accordingly.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#602 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:15 am

Read on Twitter
?s=19

Just another reminder of how awesome Elijah Hughes really is as an ISO scorer, AND what an incredible steal he'd be for us, Should we add a late first/ early 2nd round pick. For all of those that love Oubre and what he has brought to our team in terms of energy, swag, Confidence,
and versatility........................ You should covet Hughes,


As he's basically a slightly smaller ( only 1 inch shorter) yet equally explosive 2/3 version of Oubre. Also, He's currently a slightly better ISO scorer, and more of a big shot making clutch player at this stage of his development. But otherwise, He's a clone of Oubre in many ways. And would be a steal in the late first/ early 2nd round.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#603 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:52 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Weemsickew14 wrote:I think Devin Vassell and Jalen Smith are 2 names to keep an eye on. I really like Vassell as a backup 2 for Booker. He's an elite defender, knockdown shooter, and can create a little; he compares similarly to Mikal I believe, but has a little more on offense. Smith has been talked about quite a bit. Love his shooting stroke, size, and instincts. Would be happy with Vassell at 10, Smith at 10 would be similar to taking Cam Johnson at 11 last year, not too much of a reach. If we could get both we would add shooting and defense, but not playmaking like James Jones talked about.


That's true, But we still might have decent trade options, Wherein we could either trade back, or perhaps trade our minimal assets for a late first/ early 2nd. I believe that we still have Frank Kaminsky (* Team option)/ Diallo/ Okobo as potential trade assets. Also, Since Saric is on a qualifying offer, IF HE'S AGREEABLE? He can be traded to another team apparently.

Search Results
Featured snippet from the web

If a player chooses to sign the extended qualifying offer, the one-year deal becomes a standard NBA contract and the player hits free agency again the following season. Players that sign qualifying offers are unable to be traded without their consent due to other rules in the CBA pertaining to one-year contracts.Jun 27, 2019
Slam Online › nba › cba-explained-...
CBA Explained: Qualifying


So We could possibly do a number of things.

Option 1- *( Trade back option) We could just trade the 10th pick / Along with Kaminsky (*5 million Team option) which could be declined for additional cap space. Or Saric ( resigned for around 8 million) to the Celtics FOR Romeo Langford/ Vincent Poirer/ the 17th pick/ 30th picks.

17- You take Kira Lewis or Grant Riller. Then you trade Diallo/ Okobo and the 30th pick to Utah for the 24th pick.
24- You take either Jalen Smith or Paul Reed.

Option 2- Keep the 10th pick. But then resign and trade Saric and Jerome? to Philly for the 22nd pick.

10- Draft Devin Vassell or Saddiq Bey.
22- Draft Kira Lewis **( IF he falls) or Grant Riller or Malachi Flynn?
*** Trade Diallo and Okobo To Charlotte for the 32nd pick.
32- Draft Paul Reed or Killian Tillie?

Option 3- Trade the 10th pick/ Saric *( resigned at 8 million) or Kaminsky ( IF they prefer) / Diallo and Okobo to Dallas FOR the Delon Wright/ 18th pick/ 31st pick.

18- Draft Jalen Smith.
31- Draft Immanuel Quickly or Desmond Bane (** Knockdown shooting).

I really think that Saric would happily agree to be traded to either Philly *( again) Or Dallas, As they're both contenders, And he'd be getting around 8 million as well contractually. It would give a chance at starter's minutes with a contender, And he'd be getting a generous pay increase contractually. I know that most on here are against possibly adding more rookies, HOWEVER, These rookie scale contracts will become of immeasurable importance to us cap wise with our interest in being able to resign Oubre, As well as to be able to extend Bridges and Ayton accordingly.
Come on ghost you post way too many trade ideas to miss the simple detail that FA starts after the draft so you can't sign and trade a pending RFA as part of some draft package deal.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#604 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:42 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Weemsickew14 wrote:I think Devin Vassell and Jalen Smith are 2 names to keep an eye on. I really like Vassell as a backup 2 for Booker. He's an elite defender, knockdown shooter, and can create a little; he compares similarly to Mikal I believe, but has a little more on offense. Smith has been talked about quite a bit. Love his shooting stroke, size, and instincts. Would be happy with Vassell at 10, Smith at 10 would be similar to taking Cam Johnson at 11 last year, not too much of a reach. If we could get both we would add shooting and defense, but not playmaking like James Jones talked about.


That's true, But we still might have decent trade options, Wherein we could either trade back, or perhaps trade our minimal assets for a late first/ early 2nd. I believe that we still have Frank Kaminsky (* Team option)/ Diallo/ Okobo as potential trade assets. Also, Since Saric is on a qualifying offer, IF HE'S AGREEABLE? He can be traded to another team apparently.

Search Results
Featured snippet from the web

If a player chooses to sign the extended qualifying offer, the one-year deal becomes a standard NBA contract and the player hits free agency again the following season. Players that sign qualifying offers are unable to be traded without their consent due to other rules in the CBA pertaining to one-year contracts.Jun 27, 2019
Slam Online › nba › cba-explained-...
CBA Explained: Qualifying


So We could possibly do a number of things.

Option 1- *( Trade back option) We could just trade the 10th pick / Along with Kaminsky (*5 million Team option) which could be declined for additional cap space. Or Saric ( resigned for around 8 million) to the Celtics FOR Romeo Langford/ Vincent Poirer/ the 17th pick/ 30th picks.

17- You take Kira Lewis or Grant Riller. Then you trade Diallo/ Okobo and the 30th pick to Utah for the 24th pick.
24- You take either Jalen Smith or Paul Reed.

Option 2- Keep the 10th pick. But then resign and trade Saric and Jerome? to Philly for the 22nd pick.

10- Draft Devin Vassell or Saddiq Bey.
22- Draft Kira Lewis **( IF he falls) or Grant Riller or Malachi Flynn?
*** Trade Diallo and Okobo To Charlotte for the 32nd pick.
32- Draft Paul Reed or Killian Tillie?

Option 3- Trade the 10th pick/ Saric *( resigned at 8 million) or Kaminsky ( IF they prefer) / Diallo and Okobo to Dallas FOR the Delon Wright/ 18th pick/ 31st pick.

18- Draft Jalen Smith.
31- Draft Immanuel Quickly or Desmond Bane (** Knockdown shooting).

I really think that Saric would happily agree to be traded to either Philly *( again) Or Dallas, As they're both contenders, And he'd be getting around 8 million as well contractually. It would give a chance at starter's minutes with a contender, And he'd be getting a generous pay increase contractually. I know that most on here are against possibly adding more rookies, HOWEVER, These rookie scale contracts will become of immeasurable importance to us cap wise with our interest in being able to resign Oubre, As well as to be able to extend Bridges and Ayton accordingly.

Come on ghost you post way too many trade ideas to miss the simple detail that FA starts after the draft so you can't sign and trade a pending RFA as part of some draft package deal.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


You're absolutely right on that detail man! :wink:

However, What I'm suggesting though, Is couldn't we set the framework and agree in principle, With the completion of the trade becoming official 3 days later? Because, IF we are to go off of the proposed truncated schedule mentioned by Adam Silver in the tweet, Then the gap between the draft and the start of free agency would (theoretically) only be like what........3 days later? :o I don't see that wait being too steep to consider, Or a deal breaker honestly.
Read on Twitter
?s=19
NBA DRAFT- October15th.
FREE AGENCY- October18th


Search Results
Featured snippet from the web

If a player chooses to sign the extended qualifying offer, the one-year deal becomes a standard NBA contract and the player hits free agency again the following season. Players that sign qualifying offers are unable to be traded without their consent due to other rules in the CBA pertaining to one-year contracts.Jun 27, 2019
Slam Online › nba › cba-explained-...
CBA Explained: Qualifying


IF Saric WOULD CONSENT
to being resigned and traded for around 8 million *( he's not likely to get better than that in free agency with a reduced cap anyways)! Similar to how the Baynes trade was made official at the start of free agency? I mean the framework of that trade was initiated on draft night and finished around 16 days later, At the start of free agency right?
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/07/celtics-trade-no-24-pick-to-suns.html

And again, As strange as things have become due to the lockdown, The supposed proposed schedule from draft night to free agency is from October 15th - October 18th! So like a 3 day gap to wait before making the trade official?
Read on Twitter
?s=19

And Yes, I do realize that Saric is only restricted currently, However, I do again feel that he'd agree to playing on a contending team and with a better chance at a starting role AND with getting paid his top market value contractually, Which is likely more than he'd command in this down market anyways. So regardless of the sticking point again being IF he'd consent? What would we have to lose by proposing it, IF we're likely to let him walk anyways.

And IF he for whatever reason wouldn't agree, Then that's fine too, As we could alternatively send Kaminsky and or Diallo in his stead to them. And they could then decline Kaminskys' 5 million team option, And keep Diallo as a highly productive bench big. This trade would still give them much needed cap space, and a big, Whilst also being able to move up higher in the draft, AND potentially be able to draft a higher impact player. Whether that be Cole Anthony ( to apprentice behind Kemba) or in getting a high level 3 and D big in either Jalen Smith or Precious Achiuwa perhaps?

I mean, I know it's not commonplace or normal procedure, But IF the value and interest is there for Saric, I couldn't see why he wouldn't consent to being ( resigned/ traded) to a potential better situation, And on a contract that would likely give him his top market value anyways.

Also, The few Boston Fans that I've spoken to, Would accept the 10th pick in exchange for the 17th and 30 quite easily. And some even felt that the 10 for the 17/ and 26th pick would be very fair value. So even with Saric being a potential sticking point under CBA rules, He's merely one example of an asset that we could possibly attach in a trade. AGAIN! IF HE'D GIVE HIS CONSENT to being resigned and traded per situation. And I'd imagine that either Boston or Philly would be a pretty enticing option for him, Especially in also getting paid well contractually as a bonus. :dontknow:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#605 » by AtheJ415 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:44 am

I think given Jones' draft history it's pretty clear that we'd prefer Haliburton. Veteran guard who shoots the 3 well. Solid on both ends. Can be impactful off the ball and would make a difference immediately. Also his athleticism gives him some upside despite the age (similar to Bridges).

Vassell is moving up more for me. I really hate how FSU played offensively, but he's a sophomore and was impactful on both ends, and can play the 2 or 3 so has some versatility. He also had to take really tough shots consistently because of their offense and I think that helps him at the next level. Really wouldn't mind him with our pick and trying to trade back in for Riller. Would solidify our guard depth, which is sorely needed.

I wouldn't mind targeting Bassey (would've been a lottery area selection a year ago) who may not get drafted. He's super raw but good for a G-league spot similar to Lecque. Same for Myles Powell. Doubt he gets picked but feel really certain he stays in the league for awhile as a scorer off the bench (8th man type) despite the lack of size.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#606 » by AtheJ415 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:52 am

Actually if we really lean into Point Booker, a Booker, Vassell, Bridges, Oubre, Ayton lineup has a ton of athleticism and versatility.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#607 » by getrichordie » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:59 am

AtheJ415 wrote:Actually if we really lean into Point Booker, a Booker, Vassell, Bridges, Oubre, Ayton lineup has a ton of athleticism and versatility.


Is there any evidence that Booker can be a lead guard?
#yeezy4prezzy

:basketball: 2020 BIG BOARD
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#608 » by Fischella » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:32 am

draft Aleksej Pokusevski

/end
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#609 » by Saberestar » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:57 pm

Fischella wrote:draft Aleksej Pokusevski

/end

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#610 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:00 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
That's true, But we still might have decent trade options, Wherein we could either trade back, or perhaps trade our minimal assets for a late first/ early 2nd. I believe that we still have Frank Kaminsky (* Team option)/ Diallo/ Okobo as potential trade assets. Also, Since Saric is on a qualifying offer, IF HE'S AGREEABLE? He can be traded to another team apparently.



So We could possibly do a number of things.

Option 1- *( Trade back option) We could just trade the 10th pick / Along with Kaminsky (*5 million Team option) which could be declined for additional cap space. Or Saric ( resigned for around 8 million) to the Celtics FOR Romeo Langford/ Vincent Poirer/ the 17th pick/ 30th picks.

17- You take Kira Lewis or Grant Riller. Then you trade Diallo/ Okobo and the 30th pick to Utah for the 24th pick.
24- You take either Jalen Smith or Paul Reed.

Option 2- Keep the 10th pick. But then resign and trade Saric and Jerome? to Philly for the 22nd pick.

10- Draft Devin Vassell or Saddiq Bey.
22- Draft Kira Lewis **( IF he falls) or Grant Riller or Malachi Flynn?
*** Trade Diallo and Okobo To Charlotte for the 32nd pick.
32- Draft Paul Reed or Killian Tillie?

Option 3- Trade the 10th pick/ Saric *( resigned at 8 million) or Kaminsky ( IF they prefer) / Diallo and Okobo to Dallas FOR the Delon Wright/ 18th pick/ 31st pick.

18- Draft Jalen Smith.
31- Draft Immanuel Quickly or Desmond Bane (** Knockdown shooting).

I really think that Saric would happily agree to be traded to either Philly *( again) Or Dallas, As they're both contenders, And he'd be getting around 8 million as well contractually. It would give a chance at starter's minutes with a contender, And he'd be getting a generous pay increase contractually. I know that most on here are against possibly adding more rookies, HOWEVER, These rookie scale contracts will become of immeasurable importance to us cap wise with our interest in being able to resign Oubre, As well as to be able to extend Bridges and Ayton accordingly.

Come on ghost you post way too many trade ideas to miss the simple detail that FA starts after the draft so you can't sign and trade a pending RFA as part of some draft package deal.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


You're absolutely right on that detail man! :wink:

However, What I'm suggesting though, Is couldn't we set the framework and agree in principle, With the completion of the trade becoming official 3 days later? Because, IF we are to go off of the proposed truncated schedule mentioned by Adam Silver in the tweet, Then the gap between the draft and the start of free agency would (theoretically) only be like what........3 days later? :o I don't see that wait being too steep to consider, Or a deal breaker honestly.
Read on Twitter
?s=19
NBA DRAFT- October15th.
FREE AGENCY- October18th


Search Results
Featured snippet from the web

If a player chooses to sign the extended qualifying offer, the one-year deal becomes a standard NBA contract and the player hits free agency again the following season. Players that sign qualifying offers are unable to be traded without their consent due to other rules in the CBA pertaining to one-year contracts.Jun 27, 2019
Slam Online › nba › cba-explained-...
CBA Explained: Qualifying


IF Saric WOULD CONSENT
to being resigned and traded for around 8 million *( he's not likely to get better than that in free agency with a reduced cap anyways)! Similar to how the Baynes trade was made official at the start of free agency? I mean the framework of that trade was initiated on draft night and finished around 16 days later, At the start of free agency right?
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/07/celtics-trade-no-24-pick-to-suns.html

And again, As strange as things have become due to the lockdown, The supposed proposed schedule from draft night to free agency is from October 15th - October 18th! So like a 3 day gap to wait before making the trade official?
Read on Twitter
?s=19

And Yes, I do realize that Saric is only restricted currently, However, I do again feel that he'd agree to playing on a contending team and with a better chance at a starting role AND with getting paid his top market value contractually, Which is likely more than he'd command in this down market anyways. So regardless of the sticking point again being IF he'd consent? What would we have to lose by proposing it, IF we're likely to let him walk anyways.

And IF he for whatever reason wouldn't agree, Then that's fine too, As we could alternatively send Kaminsky and or Diallo in his stead to them. And they could then decline Kaminskys' 5 million team option, And keep Diallo as a highly productive bench big. This trade would still give them much needed cap space, and a big, Whilst also being able to move up higher in the draft, AND potentially be able to draft a higher impact player. Whether that be Cole Anthony ( to apprentice behind Kemba) or in getting a high level 3 and D big in either Jalen Smith or Precious Achiuwa perhaps?

I mean, I know it's not commonplace or normal procedure, But IF the value and interest is there for Saric, I couldn't see why he wouldn't consent to being ( resigned/ traded) to a potential better situation, And on a contract that would likely give him his top market value anyways.

Also, The few Boston Fans that I've spoken to, Would accept the 10th pick in exchange for the 17th and 30 quite easily. And some even felt that the 10 for the 17/ and 26th pick would be very fair value. So even with Saric being a potential sticking point under CBA rules, He's merely one example of an asset that we could possibly attach in a trade. AGAIN! IF HE'D GIVE HIS CONSENT to being resigned and traded per situation. And I'd imagine that either Boston or Philly would be a pretty enticing option for him, Especially in also getting paid well contractually as a bonus. :dontknow:
Problem is neither the suns or another team are technically allowed to negotiate a contract with Saric until FA starts. Now obviously some of that stuff happens especially with big name guys but I'm not sure teams would risk a punishment for negotiating with a role player like Dario early.

I'm a little surprised the NBA didn't take this odd year as an opportunity to put FA before the draft. Personally I think that makes more sense and then something like this would absolutely be possible.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#611 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:26 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:I think given Jones' draft history it's pretty clear that we'd prefer Haliburton. Veteran guard who shoots the 3 well. Solid on both ends. Can be impactful off the ball and would make a difference immediately. Also his athleticism gives him some upside despite the age (similar to Bridges).

Vassell is moving up more for me. I really hate how FSU played offensively, but he's a sophomore and was impactful on both ends, and can play the 2 or 3 so has some versatility. He also had to take really tough shots consistently because of their offense and I think that helps him at the next level. Really wouldn't mind him with our pick and trying to trade back in for Riller. Would solidify our guard depth, which is sorely needed.

I wouldn't mind targeting Bassey (would've been a lottery area selection a year ago) who may not get drafted. He's super raw but good for a G-league spot similar to Lecque. Same for Myles Powell. Doubt he gets picked but feel really certain he stays in the league for awhile as a scorer off the bench (8th man type) despite the lack of size.


All really great ideas honestly man! :wink:

Did you know that Devin Vassell also idolized Kobe Bryant, And has a similar mentality and internal drive to become the best version of himself and at his profession.

https://seminoles.com/noles-reflect-on-bryant-prepare-for-uva-rematch/
Like thousands of young basketball players, Vassell grew up idolizing Kobe Bryant – so much so that he wears Bryant’s No. 24 as an homage to the hoops superstar


Read on Twitter
?s=09
He's also a really high character kid too. Getting him, along with Grant Riller ( Fred Van Vleet) and maybe even Bassey ( Clint Capela/ Elden Cambell) would be a pretty solid draft night!

Although I still do have interest in Kabengele IF be becomes at all available. Also, I'm still very high on Jalen Smith and Tyler Bey, IF we could engineer a trade back scenario with the Celtics around our 10th pick and some combination of Saric OR Kaminsky/ and Okobo perhaps for the 17th / 30th picks. And then trade Diallo and Jerome or Okobo for Charlottes' 32nd pick to draft either Riller or Malachi Flynn. :nod:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#612 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:31 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:I think given Jones' draft history it's pretty clear that we'd prefer Haliburton. Veteran guard who shoots the 3 well. Solid on both ends. Can be impactful off the ball and would make a difference immediately. Also his athleticism gives him some upside despite the age (similar to Bridges).

Vassell is moving up more for me. I really hate how FSU played offensively, but he's a sophomore and was impactful on both ends, and can play the 2 or 3 so has some versatility. He also had to take really tough shots consistently because of their offense and I think that helps him at the next level. Really wouldn't mind him with our pick and trying to trade back in for Riller. Would solidify our guard depth, which is sorely needed.

I wouldn't mind targeting Bassey (would've been a lottery area selection a year ago) who may not get drafted. He's super raw but good for a G-league spot similar to Lecque. Same for Myles Powell. Doubt he gets picked but feel really certain he stays in the league for awhile as a scorer off the bench (8th man type) despite the lack of size.


All really great ideas honestly man! :wink:

Did you know that Devin Vassell also idolized Kobe Bryant, And has a similar mentality and internal drive to become the best version of himself and at his profession.

https://seminoles.com/noles-reflect-on-bryant-prepare-for-uva-rematch/
Like thousands of young basketball players, Vassell grew up idolizing Kobe Bryant – so much so that he wears Bryant’s No. 24 as an homage to the hoops superstar


Read on Twitter
?s=09
He's also a really high character kid too. Getting him, along with Grant Riller ( Fred Van Vleet) and maybe even Bassey ( Clint Capela/ Elden Cambell) would be a pretty solid draft night!

Although I still do have interest in Kabengele IF be becomes at all available. Also, I'm still very high on Jalen Smith and Tyler Bey, IF we could engineer a trade back scenario with the Celtics around our 10th pick and some combination of Saric OR Kaminsky/ and Okobo perhaps for the 17th / 30th picks. And then trade Diallo and Jerome or Okobo for Charlottes' 32nd pick to draft either Riller or Malachi Flynn. :nod:


There's no way Vassell lasts to 17, though. I don't think he'll make it to 10 - we should jump for joy if he does.

I've been trying to figure out who my top 10 players are in this draft. There's the 2 hot boys (LaMelo, Edwards), the 6 blue chips (Haliburton, Toppin, Vassell, Okongwu, Hayes, Wiseman), and then it gets a little dicey. Lately I've been circling Precious Achiuwa, and right now he's probably #9 on my board, despite the fact that he's so darn raw. Not a guy who's likely to contribute his first year in the league, and if you're okay with that, it begs the question whether it might be worth taking a swing at Pokusevski. (I was quite down on Bender leading up to the 2016 draft. From what I've seen, Pokusevski is a much, much better prospect than Dragan.)

My guess is that if Pokusevski is really worth the #10, we'll get a solid trade offer for that spot and take it - our priority is to win now, after all. But given how up in the air things are league-wide, this could be a very dynamic draft. Hold on to your butts! It could make sense to trade down and grab a couple older players on cheaper contracts, like GoK's been discussing. If we go that direction, I like Nesmith, Reed, Tyler Bey, Desmond Bane, Jalen Smith, Riller. Do not like Anthony, Lewis, Maxey, Josh Green, Mannion, Terry - not in the first round, anyway. Don't know what to make of the centers (e.g., Otoru, Carey). If we did the #10 for #17/#26 swap, I could see adding a center with the latter pick as insurance against Baynes leaving.

I've become stuck on Avdija. Was high on him early, now I don't know what to think. Plenty of other players I don't feel I have a good read on. But since we're most likely to be drafting #10, I feel like putting together a top 10 list is a fun little exercise.

Who's in you top 10?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#613 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:39 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Come on ghost you post way too many trade ideas to miss the simple detail that FA starts after the draft so you can't sign and trade a pending RFA as part of some draft package deal.

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You're absolutely right on that detail man! :wink:

However, What I'm suggesting though, Is couldn't we set the framework and agree in principle, With the completion of the trade becoming official 3 days later? Because, IF we are to go off of the proposed truncated schedule mentioned by Adam Silver in the tweet, Then the gap between the draft and the start of free agency would (theoretically) only be like what........3 days later? :o I don't see that wait being too steep to consider, Or a deal breaker honestly.
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NBA DRAFT- October15th.
FREE AGENCY- October18th


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If a player chooses to sign the extended qualifying offer, the one-year deal becomes a standard NBA contract and the player hits free agency again the following season. Players that sign qualifying offers are unable to be traded without their consent due to other rules in the CBA pertaining to one-year contracts.Jun 27, 2019
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IF Saric WOULD CONSENT
to being resigned and traded for around 8 million *( he's not likely to get better than that in free agency with a reduced cap anyways)! Similar to how the Baynes trade was made official at the start of free agency? I mean the framework of that trade was initiated on draft night and finished around 16 days later, At the start of free agency right?
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/07/celtics-trade-no-24-pick-to-suns.html

And again, As strange as things have become due to the lockdown, The supposed proposed schedule from draft night to free agency is from October 15th - October 18th! So like a 3 day gap to wait before making the trade official?
Read on Twitter
?s=19

And Yes, I do realize that Saric is only restricted currently, However, I do again feel that he'd agree to playing on a contending team and with a better chance at a starting role AND with getting paid his top market value contractually, Which is likely more than he'd command in this down market anyways. So regardless of the sticking point again being IF he'd consent? What would we have to lose by proposing it, IF we're likely to let him walk anyways.

And IF he for whatever reason wouldn't agree, Then that's fine too, As we could alternatively send Kaminsky and or Diallo in his stead to them. And they could then decline Kaminskys' 5 million team option, And keep Diallo as a highly productive bench big. This trade would still give them much needed cap space, and a big, Whilst also being able to move up higher in the draft, AND potentially be able to draft a higher impact player. Whether that be Cole Anthony ( to apprentice behind Kemba) or in getting a high level 3 and D big in either Jalen Smith or Precious Achiuwa perhaps?

I mean, I know it's not commonplace or normal procedure, But IF the value and interest is there for Saric, I couldn't see why he wouldn't consent to being ( resigned/ traded) to a potential better situation, And on a contract that would likely give him his top market value anyways.

Also, The few Boston Fans that I've spoken to, Would accept the 10th pick in exchange for the 17th and 30 quite easily. And some even felt that the 10 for the 17/ and 26th pick would be very fair value. So even with Saric being a potential sticking point under CBA rules, He's merely one example of an asset that we could possibly attach in a trade. AGAIN! IF HE'D GIVE HIS CONSENT to being resigned and traded per situation. And I'd imagine that either Boston or Philly would be a pretty enticing option for him, Especially in also getting paid well contractually as a bonus. :dontknow:
Problem is neither the suns or another team are technically allowed to negotiate a contract with Saric until FA starts. Now obviously some of that stuff happens especially with big name guys but I'm not sure teams would risk a punishment for negotiating with a role player like Dario early.

I'm a little surprised the NBA didn't take this odd year as an opportunity to put FA before the draft. Personally I think that makes more sense and then something like this would absolutely be possible.

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I agree, I'm surprised by that as well. And with respect to not being able to negotiate until free agency, Of course you're right. And yes, it does occasionally happen. So perhaps we could do one of two things to possibly circumvent that?

1- Again, IF it's Saric that they'd prefer, Then perhaps we alter the framework for the trade as the 10th pick/ Kaminsky ( 5 million team option)*** Declined for additional cap space/ Diallo FOR Romeo Langford/ Vincent Poirer/ 17th/30th picks.

2- Do the trade in two parts, The first being the draft pick exchange along with Diallo and/or Okobo. ( 10th pick/ Diallo/ Okobo FOR the 17th pick/ 30th pick). And then once free agency begins *( 3 days later) We then can resign and trade Saric to Boston *( With his consent to being traded of course)???

But ultimately the centerpiece of the draft night trade would be around the 10th pick for the 17th and 30th picks ( Which many Boston fans fully endorsed). And Saric could easily be switched out for Kaminsky *( either for another floor spacing big, Or declined for additional cap space.
17- Draft either Jalen Smith or Paul Reed.
30- Draft Riller **( IF he's there) otherwise draft Malachi Flynn *( elite in his basketball IQ and fundamentals). And to a small degree even somewhat reminds me a little of Nash with his uncanny ability to lead a team and change a game with his decision making and pesky defense.

Or we could switch up the picks and draft :
17- Kira Lewis ( 1) *** If he's there. Otherwise Grant Riller (2) or Malachi Flynn or Tre Jones ( poise/ On ball defense).
30- Jalen Smith * ( If he falls. Otherwise Paul Reed).
Overall, I just feel if we can address our positional issues with low cost rookie scale contracts, Whilst also adding much needed depth to our bench with players who have ELITE skills in their game that can compliment our current core, Then we need to absolutely do it!

These players being on low cost rookie scale contracts will allow us to maintain optimal cap flexibility, So we can be in a better position to address possibly resigning Oubre, AND still being able to take care of BOTH Bridges and Aytons' scale extensions ( options) contractually. :wink: :nod:

And in terms of addressing our critical needs:

Jalen Smith-
http://www.tankathon.com/players/jalen-smith

Would add ELITE rim protection/ rebounding and floor spacing (* 37% from three). Along with a fluid versatile developing mid range game.

Kira Lewis-
http://www.tankathon.com/players/kira-lewis-jr

Would add ELITE speed and the ability to break down opposing defenses.

********** secondary options.

Paul Reed-
http://www.tankathon.com/players/paul-reed

Would add ELITE shotblocking and rebounding, along with versatile defense and a small amount of playmaking potential.

Grant Riller-
http://www.tankathon.com/players/grant-riller

Would offer ELITE penetration and clutch play. Unstoppable scoring around the rim and ability to break down defenses with his elite ball handling.

Malachi Flynn-
http://www.tankathon.com/players/malachi-flynn

Would add ELITE floor general skills( shooting/passing/ defense and decision making and poise. Along with stout pesky defense.

Tre Jones-
http://www.tankathon.com/players/tre-jones

Would add Elite ballhawking defense, and poise. Along with improved shooting and facilitating too.
So being able to add any of these players with these Elite attributes to our current core would help us immensely in our depth and overall progression.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#614 » by GoodBehavior » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:05 pm

A. Lamelo would be my top pick

Lamelo makes no sense for the Suns given Booker's lack of D and high usage. But If I had the pick, it would be Lamelo and it wouldn't be close. I wouldn't want any other players (Edward, Halliburton, etc) and the gap between Lamelo and everyone else is pretty wide. His upside is so immense (and other player's upside are so mediocre), I don't know how you can possible pick anyone but him. Even with Booker in the backdrop, you take the chance on Lamelo and figure out the rest later.

Upside: imagine a 6'7'' Rubio that can shoot from long range with a nice floater and isn't afraid to shoot. Lamelo's handle is better than Rubio. That's a unstoppable player. You can't put a point guard on him, he can simply shoot over the shorter defender. You can't put a sg/sf, he'll dance his way around them with ease. His handle, shiftiness, speed and quickness, creativity, unpredictability, and vision is something you dont see of his size, ever. Possible generational talent. If his shooting is fixed, I don't think there's anyone in the league that can guard him.

I say there's a decent chance his shooting form get's fixed. It will probably take a couple of years. His touch on floaters and on his jump shots are decent, which is promising. Josh Jackson was able to change his mechanics and raise it higher, I don't see a reason why Lamelo couldn't change and raise his low shooting form. Unlike Josh, however, Lamelo has very good touch. Lonzo has quietly improved his shooting (38% on 6.5 attempts as a Pelicans). I think Lamelo will too. Lonzo's form was much rougher than Lamelo at the same age.

B. Consolation prize pick: Devin Vassell

Devin Vasell is not a SF at the next level. He's listed at 6'7'' 194 lb, which is incredibly generous based on the eye test. He looks a lot smaller to me (6'5'', 180sih) with a nice wingspan. Maybe his long wingspan makes people think he's bigger than what he is, but he looks like a 2 or a 1/2 combo guard (in size and frame) to me.

Upside: A poor man's Klay Thompson to compliment point Book. I think Vassell can guard the 1's and provide the off-ball shooting that works with point Book. Kids has all the intangible you want in a role player. Don't see much of play making ability at the next level. Pretty confident that he can guard the 2, whether he can guard the 1 remains a big question. But he has that Klay Thompson's peskiness (and higher strength level than the 1s) that could offset his speed disadvantage. He moves laterally extremely well too. Would love to get him if the draft slot is 10 and below.

I don't see him as replacing Oubre. Point Book-Vassell-Oubre is pretty intriguing with Book/Oubre bringing up the ball. Or you can go Rubio-Vassell-Oubre/Bridges when Book is resting. Point Book-Vassell-Oubre-Bridges-Ayton is an incredibly small lineup but the spacing and speed will be absurd, and could be deadly in 15 minute increments. How do opposing teams even guard 4 spacing guards with Ayton at the center? On defense, you lose the rebounding edge, but you have 4 decent defenders to deal with. Steals everywhere.

c. Late Pick: Saddiq Bey

Versatile 3/4 off the bench. His 3pt% is misleading. He will need to work on it at the next level. Athleticism is kinda "meh." Needs a couple of seasons to be NBA ready at meaningful minutes: more arc to his jumper, bbiq and strength development to offset the athleticism issue. Would love if available in early second round.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#615 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:24 pm

Devin Vassell is definitely a VERY NICE and intriguing option to consider. But IF by chance he's already gone by the 10th pick, And we then decide to look to trade back from 10, Perhaps we could pull even more value, AND still get a comparable Elite defensive playmaker. The player that comes to mind is of course Tyler Bey. He's not yet close to Vassell offensively, HOWEVER, He is an ELITE perimeter defender and rebounder and shotblocker for a 3/4. And could be available much later in the draft even. Giving us even more value in return? :dontknow: He's statistically a monster in terms of production, And could very well be this year's Brandon Clarke in terms of defensive impact!!

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/23/tyler-bey-scouting-report/

https://imgur.com/a/fxf0Mek
https://www.nbadraftjunkies.com/tyler-bey

Tyler Bey is a superb athlete that reminds me of a poor man's Shawn Marion mixed with a little Brandon Clarke.  Bey jumped on NBA radars in his sophomore season in which he averaged 13.6 ppg, 9.9 rpg and 1.2 blocks while earning first team All-Pac-12 honors and winning the league’s Most Improved Player award.



https://basketballsocietyonline.com/tyler-bey-scouting-report


AND he has shot over 40% from three, although on a relatively small sample size so far. But perhaps we keep Oubre at the 4, move Bridges to the 2 :o :o Crazy I know!!! Then he could help lockdown the perimeter alongside of Bey and Oubre, We keep our core together, and then with our additional later pick, address our backup guard and shooting? I envision a very solid lineup of:

Rubio/ Riller or Flynn/ Jerome.
Booker/ Quickly/ Bridges.
Bridges/ Bey/ Cam.
Oubre/ Kaminsky/ Bey.
Ayton/ Baynes/ Kaminsky.

So our league best starting 5 remain. But now we've added to our bench depth. You now have 2 high level potentially ELITE defenders in Bridges and Bey that can lockdown the perimeter,(** And Bey can also add some rim protection too) Whilst also having ELITE ISO scorers and perimeter shooters in Riller 36% from three/ Quickly over 41% from three/ 92% from free throw lineand 4/5 of the 2nd unit all shoot the 3 at better than 40%. On top of that, Even the 3rd unit is now more balanced with floor spacers and 2 high level lockdown perimeter defenders as well. So we now have tremendous depth and defensive versatility and potent shooting outside of our already potent core 5. :nod:

Boston-
The 10 additional assets for the 17th/ 26th OR 30th picks?
17- Kira Lewis OR Grant Riller.
26- Tyler Bey

*** Trade for or buy a late first/ early 2nd round pick from a team with multiple 2nd round picks ( Philly/ Sacramento)?? and take a knockdown shooter. Any of Quickly/ Bane/ Kispert/ Isiah Joe should do.

Dallas-
The 10 / additional assets for the 18th/ 31st picks. *** I'd love to trade for Wright somehow inclusionary to the trade? ( Would they consider taking Kaminsky and Okobo for him)??? otherwise just do the 10 for the 18 / 31st picks.
18- Tyler Bey.
31- Grant Riller or Malachi Flynn.

*** Trade for/ Buy an early 2nd round pick, And take Quickly or Desmond Bane for shooting. But overall, my point is in that perhaps we could keep Oubre, And add an ELITE switchable, versatile defender in Bey. Just imagine a lineup with multiple switchable wing defenders in Bridges ( 2 guard), Bey ( small forward) Oubre ( power forward) and then still be able to add a playmaking guard and shooting. And these players on their rookie scale contracts would add up under 5 million or less.

What excites me most about this idea, Is that Tyler Bey, along with Bridges gives us two ELITE lockdown perimeter defenders that can also shoot the three at over a 40% clip, AND don't need the ball in their hands in order to contribute, And affect the game. This would allow Booker, Oubre and Ayton (** Cam Johnson even) to focus solely upon offense. And the icing on the cake would be that with a 2nd round pick, we can additionally get another ELITE shooter in either Quickly or Bane to create even more scoring off of the bench. And an elite ISO SCORER in Riller or an ELITE playmaking floor general in either Malachi Flynn or maybe even Tre Jones IF he falls to the 2nd round??? :D
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#616 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:04 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:Devin Vassell is definitely a VERY NICE and intriguing option to consider. But IF by chance he's already gone by the 10th pick, And we then decide to look to trade back from 10, Perhaps we could pull even more value, AND still get a comparable Elite defensive playmaker. The player that comes to mind is of course Tyler Bey. He's not yet close to Vassell offensively, HOWEVER, He is an ELITE perimeter defender and rebounder and shotblocker for a 3/4. And could be available much later in the draft even. Giving us even more value in return? :dontknow: He's statistically a monster in terms of production, And could very well be this year's Brandon Clarke in terms of defensive impact!!

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/23/tyler-bey-scouting-report/

https://imgur.com/a/fxf0Mek

Awareness / Team Defense:
Very high-level team defender and defensive playmaker. Stunts, tags and recovers, nice job keeping hands out on and off ball for the most part, and he talks on defense. Great defensive playmaker who can make anticipatory reads, has very reactions off ball, and excellent timing protecting the rim and shooting the gap. Has a high defensive IQ, but his reaction time on the court is what really sets him apart – he processes things quickly on defense and is able to react immediately upon seeing what is happening. Covers ground very quickly. He’s always looking to help without losing his man – does a great job keeping his head on a swivel tracking of his man and the rest of the players / actions on the court. Nice job playing the middle / positional defense when he is off ball. Rotates well both along the perimeter / to the perimeter from the interior and making interior rotations.
 

Rim Protection:

High-level rim protector who makes smart reads off ball – you can constantly see him turning his head to his man / action to make sure he doesn’t let his man cut free, and when the time is right, moves to make the block. He might be a bit too reliant on his athleticism in that he waits until the last second to rotate, but it does not negatively impact his rim protection ability because he is not out of place to begin with and his reactions are just so quick to the ball / area he has to rotate to. Does a really nice job jumping with his hands straight up, avoiding the swipe down (most of the time) and the foul – in addition, his excellent body control helps him avoid fouls, as does his ability to move his arms in air to make the shot attempt difficult. Does not bite for many pump fakes, though occasional ones do get him. Uses his wingspan and standing reach well. His quick vertical pop and reaction time allow him to transition from moving laterally to protecting the rim against the ballhandler as he’s defending the drive. Really explodes vertically to protect the rim off two feet (full extension when necessary with his arms) from the weak side, and his quick load time lets him react and jump when under pressure from an incoming driver. However, Bey has to get stronger – he can get dislodged by players a bit and bigger players will be able to take advantage of him despite Bey being pretty physical around the basket. He should be able to add good weight without having athleticism diminished and he does not appear to have a high center of gravity, which will help with his ability to withstand bumps and attempted dislodges as he gets stronger.


https://basketballsocietyonline.com/tyler-bey-scouting-report


AND he has shot over 40% from three, although on a relatively small sample size so far. But perhaps we keep Oubre at the 4, move Bridges to the 2 :o :o Crazy I know!!! Then he could help lockdown the perimeter alongside of Bey and Oubre, We keep our core together, and then with our additional later pick, address our backup guard and shooting?

Boston-
The 10 additional assets for the 17th/ 26th OR 30th picks?
17- Kira Lewis OR Grant Riller.
26- Tyler Bey

*** Trade for or buy a late first/ early 2nd round pick from a team with multiple 2nd round picks ( Philly/ Sacramento)?? and take a knockdown shooter. Any of Quickly/ Bane/ Kispert/ Isiah Joe should do.

Dallas-
The 10 / additional assets for the 18th/ 31st picks. *** I'd love to trade for Wright somehow inclusionary to the trade? ( Would they consider taking Kaminsky and Okobo for him)??? otherwise just do the 10 for the 18 / 31st picks.
18- Tyler Bey.
31- Grant Riller or Malachi Flynn.

*** Trade for/ Buy an early 2nd round pick, And take Quickly or Desmond Bane for shooting. But overall, my point is in that perhaps we could keep Oubre, And add an ELITE switchable, versatile defender in Bey. Just imagine a lineup with multiple switchable wing defenders in Bridges ( 2 guard), Bey ( small forward) Oubre ( power forward) and then still be able to add a playmaking guard and shooting. And these players on their rookie scale contracts would add up under 5 million or less.

What excites me most about this idea, Is that Tyler Bey, along with Bridges gives us two ELITE lockdown perimeter defenders that can also shoot the three at over a 40% clip, AND don't need the ball in their hands in order to contribute, And affect the game. This would allow Booker, Oubre and Ayton (** Cam Johnson even) to focus solely upon offense. And the icing on the cake would be that with a 2nd round pick, we can additionally get another ELITE shooter in either Quickly or Bane to create even more scoring off of the bench. And an elite ISO SCORER in Riller or an ELITE playmaking floor general in either Malachi Flynn or maybe even Tre Jones IF he falls to the 2nd round??? :D


I feel like this take fails to account for the fact that these players, in general, will need a couple years to acclimate. Best thing you could hope for Tyler Bey next year is a guy who doesn't hurt you to much, because he's not going to be better than Oubre, Bridges or Cam. He might be very good a few years down the line, but at a position of some redundancy, and I really can't imagine that's what we're looking for out of this pick. (Also, no way should you expect Brandon Clarke-type defensive impact on day 1.)

As far as Lewis goes, I really don't think it's a good idea to add a PG in the draft unless we're in love, because I don't want to chase Jevon off our third string, and I still think Ty is worth watching. We need a quality NBA backup PG, and no one we draft is likely to be that next season. Riller's more of a combo guy, and he's older, so I'd consider him if we added a pick, I guess.

Still, I feel like we should be focused on making the right pick at #10. It's very rare that a draft doesn't have a high-quality NBA player available at that spot in the draft. The key is ID'ing that guy. Do you really think Tyler Bey's going to be the next Kawhi? How big are his hands?? :lol:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#617 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:31 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
I feel like this take fails to account for the fact that these players, in general, will need a couple years to acclimate. Best thing you could hope for Tyler Bey next year is a guy who doesn't hurt you to much, because he's not going to be better than Oubre, Bridges or Cam. He might be very good a few years down the line, but at a position of some redundancy, and I really can't imagine that's what we're looking for out of this pick. (Also, no way should you expect Brandon Clarke-type defensive impact on day 1.)

As far as Lewis goes, I really don't think it's a good idea to add a PG in the draft unless we're in love, because I don't want to chase Jevon off our third string, and I still think Ty is worth watching. We need a quality NBA backup PG, and no one we draft is likely to be that next season. Riller's more of a combo guy, and he's older, so I'd consider him if we added a pick, I guess.

Still, I feel like we should be focused on making the right pick at #10. It's very rare that a draft doesn't have a high-quality NBA player available at that spot in the draft. The key is ID'ing that guy. Do you really think Tyler Bey's going to be the next Kawhi? How big are his hands?? :lol:


First off, I completely agree with you that under certain circumstances, and fore some players, It does take a few years to acclimate and contribute at a measurable level. HOWEVER, With Tyler Bey, His game is predicated upon his athleticism, ELITE defensive awareness and defensive playmaking, Elite rebounding for a wing, and his high defensive basketball IQ. So his skillset should quite easily translate almost immediately. Next, with respect to his not hurting us, AND needing to be better than Oubre, Bridges, or Cam. We'd of course be drafting him for his elite defensive versatility and the fact that he doesn't need to have the ball in his hands to make an impact and contribute. Also, he's shown enough consistency ( albeit in small sample size) to hit over 41% from three, So he'd be more of a defensive compliment to Oubre, Cam, and our primary scorers. And therefore, he really wouldn't need to be better than any of those three to be able to contribute, As he'll again contribute in a complimentary role without needing the ball.

Next, With respect to not drafting him due to it creating redundancy. In today's modern NBA of positionless basketball and team's seeking to go smaller and coveting highly interchangeable positional players ( especially wings)a player such as Tyler Bey who is a highly versatile 3 and D wing, With the ability to guard 1-4 and even some 5s' whilst still being able to also spread the floor at a reasonable rate carry premium value to teams. So I'd argue that his versatility and high complimentary skillset negates any possible concern over redundancy, As Bridges can also play at the 2 on occasions wherein Booker plays at the 1. And then Bey would slide in at the 3, With Oubre at the 4, Or switch it up any number of ways, with Oubre at the 3, and Bey at the 4 even.This would give Monty a lot of positional versatility and different options at his disposal.

Also, I agree that we can't realistically expect the same type of impact from day 1 as that which Clarke provided to Memphis. And I wouldn't consider it at a reasonable to make those assumptions, As each player's level of success and contribution is highly circumstantial and individually dependent upon there overall environment, As well as countless other potential factors. HOWEVER, Do I think he could very possibly replicate Clarkes' first year stat line that he put up in Memphis? Absolutely, IF also given 21 minutes of playing time in his first season.
Brandon Clarke:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/clarkbr01.html

12 points/ 5.8 rebounds/ 1.5 assists/ and 0.8 blocks in 21 minutes of play. When in college, Tyler is currently putting up :
http://www.tankathon.com/players/tyler-bey
13.8 points/ 9 rebounds/ 1.5 assists/ 1.2 blocks in 29 minutes of play. And even though he's not nearly as efficient at scoring around the rim as Clarke is, His value would be from his impact on the defensive end, AND of the bench in a complimentary role anyways, So he wouldn't really need to have a similar impact as Clarke for us in his first season. But still, Noone really saw Clarke having that kind of defensive impact, Otherwise, He wouldn't have fallen all the way to the 20s' in last year's draft. But with respect to that, The comparison is primarily based upon the fact that they're both undersized energetic combo forwards with elite quick twitch athleticism and high end defensive potential as defensive specialists at the next level. And both were/ are flying under the radar prior to the draft.

https://www.nbascoutinglive.com/tyler-bey-scouting-report/

https://www.nbascoutinglive.com/brandon-clarke-scouting-report/

Lastly, With respect to him being the next Kwahi, Who can really prognosticate what might happen? But he ( Tyler Bey) is an elite perimeter defender with similar size as Kwahi at 6'7 and also a similar long wingspan at nearly 7'2, To Kwahis' 7'3 wingspan. And their comparison:

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=tyler-bey--kawhi-leonard

Finds them eerily similar in many ways statistically, If that can be considered a reasonable barometer for potential projection??? :dontknow:
As for the hand size comparison, Kwahi is said to have hands at around 11 inches. And for Tyler Bey, I couldn't find any info as of yet. :(

With respect to Not drafting Lewis, For fear of chasing Jevon Carter off, and potentially displacing Jerome rotationally. Whilst Carter is great defensively as a ballhawking guard, He's still a 3rd tier guard at best, And we're looking for an actual viable backup guard replacement option to take over for Rubio eventually. So would you honestly rather have Carter over Lewis, Whose ceiling projects higher along the lines of a Dennis Schroder/ Lou Williams, When at best (* and I love what Carter brings :wink: ) Carter in all this time along with our other guard rotation hasn't shown the ability or consistency to be any better than a 3rd string option?

And I am really high on Jerome's basketball IQ and passing and shooting potential, But let's be honest, He doesn't have nearly enough speed and athleticism to adequately survive in a backup point guard role, much less take over a starting role for Rubio when he leaves. Honestly, Jerome would be best suited as a backup 3rd string playmaking version of JJ Reddick for us. In this capacity, His overall lack of athleticism is negated somewhat, And he can better utilize his high basketball IQ, passing ability, and shooting prowess to have a more measurable impact on the game. Again, with him getting exposed athletically quite so much. As far as Riller goes, Yes he's a combo guard, But to our benefit, He's ELITE in his ability to break down defenses with his ballhandling and penetration. He's also a big time clutch shotmaker with a lot of poise and savvy. And his ceiling does project along the lines of: Fred Van Vleet/ Deron Williams. So he'd honestly be a perfect compliment to Booker ( IF Booker is at the two, AND also to Rubio with his ELITE penetration and clutch shotmaking ability. So again, I'd of course agree with you that IF we add a pick, He should be very high on our big board.

Lastly, with respect to making the right pick at 10, You're right in that it should always be the goal to make the right pick IF AT ALL POSSIBLE in the draft. But with respect to this draft, As we all know, The talent is oddly enough fairly even throughout the majority of the first round, As well as into the 2nd round too. This means that depending upon your intent and team needs, You could quite possibly find equal or greater value even later in the first round ( outside of the lottery) that can help your team, As there's just no legitimate or discernable high end all star caliber lottery talent outside of the top 3 at best! So unless we somehow luck into a top 3 pick, I for my part, Just find it to be of more value to trade back for additional low cost assets that can help address multiple needs positionally, Whilst, also keeping cap costs low. Which in doing so, Will afford us greater cap flexibility in free agency to possibly sign a specific higher tier free agent at a position of critical need. Should we identify one available. :D

I mean just imagine being able to walk away on draft night with Riller, Bey or Jalen Smith (** My top overall preference in a trade back scenario) :nod: And then with addressing two positions at both backup point guard and 3 and D power forward, Now we use the money we saved in the draft (from filling those positions of need/ depth with low cost rookie scale contracts) to add one of either Ibaka **( mentor Smith) or Van Vleet **( mentor Riller). Whilst flipping some combination of Okobo and Diallo to either Charlotte or Dallas for the 31st or 32nd pick in the draft. And draft an elite perimeter shooter in either Quickly or Desmond Bane. We'd be a super deep, super athletic, defensively versatile team, And ready to compete sooner too. :wink: I call that a winning offseason in what has been a weird lost season
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#618 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:54 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:I think given Jones' draft history it's pretty clear that we'd prefer Haliburton. Veteran guard who shoots the 3 well. Solid on both ends. Can be impactful off the ball and would make a difference immediately. Also his athleticism gives him some upside despite the age (similar to Bridges).

Vassell is moving up more for me. I really hate how FSU played offensively, but he's a sophomore and was impactful on both ends, and can play the 2 or 3 so has some versatility. He also had to take really tough shots consistently because of their offense and I think that helps him at the next level. Really wouldn't mind him with our pick and trying to trade back in for Riller. Would solidify our guard depth, which is sorely needed.

I wouldn't mind targeting Bassey (would've been a lottery area selection a year ago) who may not get drafted. He's super raw but good for a G-league spot similar to Lecque. Same for Myles Powell. Doubt he gets picked but feel really certain he stays in the league for awhile as a scorer off the bench (8th man type) despite the lack of size.


All really great ideas honestly man! :wink:

Did you know that Devin Vassell also idolized Kobe Bryant, And has a similar mentality and internal drive to become the best version of himself and at his profession.

https://seminoles.com/noles-reflect-on-bryant-prepare-for-uva-rematch/
Like thousands of young basketball players, Vassell grew up idolizing Kobe Bryant – so much so that he wears Bryant’s No. 24 as an homage to the hoops superstar


Read on Twitter
?s=09
He's also a really high character kid too. Getting him, along with Grant Riller ( Fred Van Vleet) and maybe even Bassey ( Clint Capela/ Elden Cambell) would be a pretty solid draft night!

Although I still do have interest in Kabengele IF be becomes at all available. Also, I'm still very high on Jalen Smith and Tyler Bey, IF we could engineer a trade back scenario with the Celtics around our 10th pick and some combination of Saric OR Kaminsky/ and Okobo perhaps for the 17th / 30th picks. And then trade Diallo and Jerome or Okobo for Charlottes' 32nd pick to draft either Riller or Malachi Flynn. :nod:


There's no way Vassell lasts to 17, though. I don't think he'll make it to 10 - we should jump for joy if he does.

I've been trying to figure out who my top 10 players are in this draft. There's the 2 hot boys (LaMelo, Edwards), the 6 blue chips (Haliburton, Toppin, Vassell, Okongwu, Hayes, Wiseman), and then it gets a little dicey. Lately I've been circling Precious Achiuwa, and right now he's probably #9 on my board, despite the fact that he's so darn raw. Not a guy who's likely to contribute his first year in the league, and if you're okay with that, it begs the question whether it might be worth taking a swing at Pokusevski. (I was quite down on Bender leading up to the 2016 draft. From what I've seen, Pokusevski is a much, much better prospect than Dragan.)

My guess is that if Pokusevski is really worth the #10, we'll get a solid trade offer for that spot and take it - our priority is to win now, after all. But given how up in the air things are league-wide, this could be a very dynamic draft. Hold on to your butts! It could make sense to trade down and grab a couple older players on cheaper contracts, like GoK's been discussing. If we go that direction, I like Nesmith, Reed, Tyler Bey, Desmond Bane, Jalen Smith, Riller. Do not like Anthony, Lewis, Maxey, Josh Green, Mannion, Terry - not in the first round, anyway. Don't know what to make of the centers (e.g., Otoru, Carey). If we did the #10 for #17/#26 swap, I could see adding a center with the latter pick as insurance against Baynes leaving.

I've become stuck on Avdija. Was high on him early, now I don't know what to think. Plenty of other players I don't feel I have a good read on. But since we're most likely to be drafting #10, I feel like putting together a top 10 list is a fun little exercise.

Who's in you top 10?


All very good points man! :wink:

So many good points you made that I want to reply to, So I guess we'll start with Pokusevski.

I really love Pokusevskis' unicorn like potential and versatility for his size, Although I hope that he doesn't end up like another Jan Vescley or Dragan Bender of course. :lol: I mean he's really thin, But IF he puts on some weight, And adds some strength, I think he's got big time potential, And easily should be considered a potential top 10 prospect. But I'd watch his play very closely to guage his willingness to mix it up and be physical in the paint and bang. Because we don't need any more big pansies in our frontcourt honestly after Frye and Bender.

Now IF we can get a solid trade offer for the 10, I'd of course fully endorse it. My preference being though to get back a quality veteran at either the guard or at the 4, Plus additional draft assets, So we can add depth to our bench, and also address our other positional needs, whilst maintaining some modicum of cap flexibility to use in free agency. A few trades that I'd prefer would be:

1-
Phoenix/ Orlando:
Oubre / Diallo/ 10th pick FOR Aaron Gordon/ James Ennis 3rd/ 15th pick.
* Then pursue one of Van Vleet / Dragic/ Augustine or Clarkson in free agency?

15- Draft Nesmith or Kira Lewis **( IF Lewis, He can fill in as a 6th man microwave bench scorer) beside of whichever free agency guard we sign for a year or two, Then take over after Rubio leaves perhaps?

2- Phoenix/ Boston: (*** My favorite trade preference).
The 10th pick/ Diallo/ FOR Poirier/ 17th/ 30th picks.

17- Draft Jalen Smith.
30- Grant Riller or Malachi Flynn.


3- Phoenix/Dallas:
Diallo/ Okobo/ 10th pick/ future conditional first FOR Delon Wright/ 18th pick/ 31st pick.

18- Draft Jalen Smith or Paul Reed.
31- Draft Immanuel Quickly or Desmond Bane.
As for centers, Oturu would be good. He reminds me of Al Horford/ poor man's Embiid. And Vernon Carey reminds me of Greg Monroe/ smaller Eddy Curry? Jalen Smith can play the 4/5. Otherwise I would look hard at Reggie Perry or Paul Reed ( 4/5). Avdija is very versatile, reminds me of a slightly lesser version of Gordon Hayward. I'd look at him, IF we're looking to move Oubre. And then he would replace Oubre basically. As for my top 10 list:

1- Ball.
2- Hayes.
3- Toppin.
4- Okungwu.
5- Vassell.
6- Jalen Smith.
7- Grant Riller.
8- Paul Reed.
9- Aaron Nesmith.
10- Kira Lewis.
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WeekapaugGroove
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#619 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:00 am

Ghost - not to be the constant 'well actually' guy but FYI a player can not be traded then have his option declined. That was a new rule in the latest CBA so keep that in mind for all your Frank trade ideas.

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Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
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Ghost of Kleine
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#620 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:35 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Ghost - not to be the constant 'well actually' guy but FYI a player can not be traded then have his option declined. That was a new rule in the latest CBA so keep that in mind for all your Frank trade ideas.

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I definitely dropped the ball on that one, But No worries man! K :D
And I actually do appreciate the clarification on certain things that I may miss or be unclear or up to date on. Respect man! :wink: :thumbsup:
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