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2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns?

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2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#1 » by SunsLyf3 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:58 am

It's been 10 long years since our beloved Suns gave us one of the most memorable seasons in Phoenix Suns history. Back then we weren't expected to do much and had just come off the horrible Terry Porter experiment that had some Shaq sprinkled on top. Nash and Hill were seen as declining and STATs 2010 FA surrounded the franchise with question marks about the future and it's aging star. Nevertheless the team came together with a ensemble of characters that complemented each other perfectly and the chemistry was through the roof resulting in yet another WCF appearance. Fast forward to 2019 and this time instead of following years of success we're at a crossroads yet again except this time we have 9 years of failures(and 1 fluke season) to look back on. I look at what our FO did and just like before they handed over the job to a coach with some previous NBA experience but had yet to prove he was legit in the eyes of many. The roster composition is also very similar too IMO but instead of Lou Amundson be have Boris Diaw.

Rubio = Nash with a lesser shot
Ayton = STAT
Booker = Better Jrich
Tyler Johnson = Barbosa(combo guard with ability to play some PG)
Kelly Oubre = Hill(Hill was a swiss army knife much like Oubre is for us)
Mikal Bridges = Jared Dudley with athletic ability
Frank Kaminsky = Channing Frye
Aaron Baynes = Rolo + Lou in one
Dario Saric = Boris Diaw(the biggest difference and a positive one at that)
Cam, Okobo, Lecque, Jerome or whomever takes advantage of their opportunity could end up in that wild card role like Dragic.

Anyways guys I feel like for once in the past decade we are headed in the right direction while the rest of the league is sleeping on us. The formula for success is there and just like the actual Phoenix it's time for these Suns to rise from the ashes. GO SUNS!!!
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#2 » by SlovenianDragon » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:32 am

what about Ayton?
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#3 » by SunsLyf3 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:24 am

SlovenianDragon wrote:what about Ayton?

Yikes I left him out but he would be Amare in this situation.
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#4 » by hollywood6964 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:52 am

This must be a joke.
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#5 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:32 am

Yeah, not sure I see anyone doing something like this...

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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#6 » by Saberestar » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:01 am

I do not see it.

Yeah, I WOULD LOVE that to be true, but in that case we are gonna fight for the championship next season. You know it... that is not happening.

I am gonna talk just about one comparison...Amare - Ayton.

Ayton is just 21 years old and his awareness on the court is not good. He is a very good young player, but we do not know if he will be GREAT. Amare was a freaking monster, one of the best offensive frontcourt players in the league for so so many years. A legit All Star.

Ayton needs to show improvement this next season. He needs to create for himself and be a better defender as a C to be considered just on the conversation.

We can not even take for granted that Ayton is gonna be better next season. Some players take more years to develop and he probably is the same player that he was last season. Or even worse (hopefully not).

Just remember that we thought that Chriss would improve in his second season. We failed.

We though that Jackson would improve in his second season. It was a fact during last summer. We failed.

Yeah, Ayton is a better player, and I truly think he is gonna improve more than those two, but I think people are expecting too much from him for next season.

He is just 21 years old and he is developing. Patience is needed.

Amare on 2010 was on his prime and on another level. It is not even close at this point.
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#7 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:09 pm

Saberestar wrote:I do not see it.

Yeah, I WOULD LOVE that to be true, but in that case we are gonna fight for the championship next season. You know it... that is not happening.

I am gonna talk just about one comparison...Amare - Ayton.

Ayton is just 21 years old and his awareness on the court is not good. He is a very good young player, but we do not know if he will be GREAT. Amare was a freaking monster, one of the best offensive frontcourt players in the league for so so many years. A legit All Star.

Ayton needs to show improvement this next season. He needs to create for himself and be a better defender as a C to be considered just on the conversation.

We can not even take for granted that Ayton is gonna be better next season. Some players take more years to develop and he probably is the same player that he was last season. Or even worse (hopefully not).

Just remember that we thought that Chriss would improve in his second season. We failed.

We though that Jackson would improve in his second season. It was a fact during last summer. We failed.

Yeah, Ayton is a better player, and I truly think he is gonna improve more than those two, but I think people are expecting too much from him for next season.

He is just 21 years old and he is developing. Patience is needed.

Amare on 2010 was on his prime and on another level. It is not even close at this point.


Yeah, maybe some are forgetting exactly how good that team was. And it's not like they came out of nowhere. They were a contender for 3 years, won 55 games in 07-08 and won 46 in 08-09 despite having Terry Porter as coach for over 50 games and Amare out for 29 games. They only missed the playoffs by 2 games.

We won 19 last year and have almost 2/3 of the roster turning over, which is a good thing, but also brand new put together teams rarely do really well. If I was to equate this team to anything, it might be the 04-05 Suns, who were not good the year before with trades and injuries and added new players during the summer.

Also Amare was in his 3rd year out of HS, Ayton is essentially in his 3rd year out of HS, we have Booker in his 5th year (Joe Johnson was in his 4th) and both could shoot and handle and a new pass first PG who was 30 years old (Rubio 29th).

Oubre is obviously nothing like Marion but maybe the closest thing on offense and Bridges is closer on defense. Q wasn't a great but a high volume 3 pt shooter, so maybe he was similar on offense to Bridges.

Maybe you could equate Barbosa to Tyler Johnson and Casey Jacobsen (who was 23 and a good shooter) to Cam Johnson.

The only thing is Nash was a great shooter and obviously worlds better than Rubio (though Rubio has the D), Amare was a force and some rated him as one of the most valuable players in the NBA...

2. Amare Stoudemire – You could make a good case that he should be No. 1. In fact, that’s exactly what my buddy House said last week when we were figuring out this list: “Stoudemire is my No. 1. He showed a level of upside unmatched by any player his age in these playoffs, with the exception perhaps of Wade (and Stoudemire is more valuable than Wade because of the position he plays). If San Antonio loses Game 7 tonight, you’re telling me that they would flatly reject Amare for Timmy? I’m not so sure.”

1. Tim Duncan – Actually, I’m sure. Tim Duncan is retiring as a Spur.


https://grantland.com/features/sports-guys-vault-nba-trade-value-2005/

And of course Marion is far better than anyone on our team as well.

And Booker will be hard pressed to shoot like Joe Johnson that year, who shot 47.8% from 3. If he can reach 40% I'll be happy.
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#8 » by SunsLyf3 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:40 pm

hollywood6964 wrote:This must be a joke.

McD got lucky and ended up with 48 wins after the B-Eazy season that resulted in 25 wins. I didn't claim an NBA championship or even a WCF trip but there are similarities. Everyone takes things too literal. Ayton = Stat is more about being the dominant big upfront which Ayton will be for us just like Stat was for the Suns back then.
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#9 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:29 am

A man can dream.

Anything could happen (within reason) and another fluke 45+ win season is within reason imo. It's very unlikely but if I imagine all pistons firing, young guys playing above expectations and we have wicked chemistry, I think a 45win season is possible and we might even be battling for a playoff spot.

But I don't think anyone here is really thinking we're anything close to the 54 win team back in 09-10 other than perhaps similarly low expectations
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#10 » by Moochthemonkey » Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:10 am

Rubio isn't Nash with a lesser shot. Rubio is Nash with better defense, lesser court vision, and a much lesser shot. I think you might be undervaluing how important Nash was. Swap him out with one of the PGs from last year and I don't think it's unreasonable to say the Suns would have 20+ wins.
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#11 » by Calvin Klein » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:28 am

No.
Please internet, stop using "literally" so much. You're doing it wrong.
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#12 » by Qwigglez » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:14 am

Yeah I'd consider our upcoming team to potentially our 2004-05 team like BW said. We had a massive roster turnover and got players in their prime (Nash/Q) and this year we are getting Rubio/Saric. I think Oubre while playing for us has shown flashes of being a hybrid player like Marion. I actually think Oubre and maybe even Saric could be potential winners or at least finalist for Most Improved Player this upcoming season. Booker would need to perform like a top 10-15 MVP like player, and I think it's doable if he tweaks his defense and takes better shots. It's possible with the new additions to our team IMO. Ayton will need to become at least an average defender, but would prefer him to become a top 10 center in the league defensively. Offensively I think he has the tools to be a top 5 center in the NBA. Of course Rubio will need to be the key that makes this engine run, he'll need to average close to 10 assists per game, while hopefully making at least 35% from 3 to be effective. Bridges is the outlier for me. He can be that missing piece to bring us over the top and help close out games. I could see us winning between 44-50 games if everyone improves. The only link I see this upcoming team having with the 2009-10 team is having that team chemistry. With how balanced our team, with everyone knowing their role, there shouldn't be any disruption on minute distribution except maybe at backup PG with Carter, Okobo, and Ty Jerome.
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#13 » by SunsLyf3 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:20 pm

Qwigglez wrote:Yeah I'd consider our upcoming team to potentially our 2004-05 team like BW said. We had a massive roster turnover and got players in their prime (Nash/Q) and this year we are getting Rubio/Saric. I think Oubre while playing for us has shown flashes of being a hybrid player like Marion. I actually think Oubre and maybe even Saric could be potential winners or at least finalist for Most Improved Player this upcoming season. Booker would need to perform like a top 10-15 MVP like player, and I think it's doable if he tweaks his defense and takes better shots. It's possible with the new additions to our team IMO. Ayton will need to become at least an average defender, but would prefer him to become a top 10 center in the league defensively. Offensively I think he has the tools to be a top 5 center in the NBA. Of course Rubio will need to be the key that makes this engine run, he'll need to average close to 10 assists per game, while hopefully making at least 35% from 3 to be effective. Bridges is the outlier for me. He can be that missing piece to bring us over the top and help close out games. I could see us winning between 44-50 games if everyone improves. The only link I see this upcoming team having with the 2009-10 team is having that team chemistry. With how balanced our team, with everyone knowing their role, there shouldn't be any disruption on minute distribution except maybe at backup PG with Carter, Okobo, and Ty Jerome.

That's pretty much what Im basing it on. Low expectations following a disappointing season and team chemistry. It would be moronic for anyone to think I'm comparing each player 1 on 1. Its about the team and the role each player will take. The other major difference which is why I didn't bring up 04-05. They had 7-8 man rotation with not depth behind that. The roster composition IMO resembles a lot more what we did in 09-10.
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#14 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:56 pm

I think this season looks more like the 2013 season than it would the 2010 season. We won a flukey 48 games off a new coach, new GM, new direction, essentially a brand new team with a good mixture of young players and guys that has experience but still looking for that opportunity to break out. Oh and also no-low expectations

Early to mid 20's players looking to break out
2020- Oubre
2020 - Saric
2020 - Ayton
2020 - Bridges (?)

2013 - Bledsoe
2013 - Kieff
2013 - Mook
2013 - Dragic (not early-mid 20's but still looking for an opportuity to break out)

Mid to late 20's, high chemistry vets who can play
2020 - Johnson
2020 - Rubio
2020 - Kaminsky

2013 - Dragic (his break out into an all-NBA player was pleasent surprise)
2013 - Frye
2013 - Tucker
2013 - Green
2013 - Ish Smith
2013 - Plumlee (25 but I don't think anyone expect a break out even though he exceeded expectations)

Rookies
2020 - Cam Johnson
2020 - Jerome
2013 - Len

Star(s)
2020 - Booker
2013 - Didn't have a bonafide star but Dragic/Bledsoe turned into one of the best 1-2 guards in the league that season
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#15 » by sunskerr » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:31 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:2013 - Didn't have a bonafide star but Dragic/Bledsoe turned into one of the best 1-2 guards in the league that season


Lets be real Dragic got robbed of all star status that year. He was an all star level player through and through.
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#16 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:38 pm

sunskerr wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:2013 - Didn't have a bonafide star but Dragic/Bledsoe turned into one of the best 1-2 guards in the league that season


Lets be real Dragic got robbed of all star status that year. He was an all star level player through and through.

At the end of that season, it was clear he was an all-star/all-NBA player but before the start of the season, he was just seen as a solid starter. Expectatations were low
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#17 » by SlovenianDragon » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:04 am

bwgood77 wrote:Yeah, not sure I see anyone doing something like this...



To be fair Ayton would get roasted for not getting back on D

I prefer this:



Defense, running the floor, and a dunk
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#18 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:09 am

Ayton would've been the ROY if he played anything like Amare in his rookie season.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#19 » by SlovenianDragon » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:16 am

lilfishi22 wrote:Ayton would've been the ROY if he played anything like Amare in his rookie season.


Agree to disagree.

Ayton did more with less anyways.

Would it be fair to say Ayton would have won ROY if he had Nash last year? What would Amare look like with Melton or Okobo?

Atleast Ayton has an NBA caliber PG now...lets see how he does next season.
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Re: 2019-20 Phoenix Suns = 2009-10 Phoenix Suns? 

Post#20 » by SunsLyf3 » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:18 am

SlovenianDragon wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Ayton would've been the ROY if he played anything like Amare in his rookie season.


Agree to disagree.

Ayton did more with less anyways.

Would it be fair to say Ayton would have won ROY if he had Nash last year? What would Amare look like with Melton or Okobo?

Atleast Ayton has an NBA caliber PG now...lets see how he does next season.

Or Stephon Marbury.

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