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Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers

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Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#1 » by 8305 » Sat Aug 3, 2019 12:29 pm

Hoping you can tell me more about TJ
Pacers have gotten a lot of mileage from players found in what I'll call the secondary market. Underappreciated guys who when given a little different opportunity can be more than what they've shown to date. I'd barely heard of Bojan Bogdonovich when we got him, was surprised when we anointed him the starting SF in the summer of of 2017. Replacing Bojan is the opportunity being presented to TJ.

Was his improved shooting last year an anomaly?
Does he have it in him to be a 2nd scoring option on a good team?
People said Bogdonovich couldn't guard anyone when we got him. Ultimately he turned into a pretty solid defender. Any potential for this with TJ?
Word out of the Pacer organization is they see TJ strictly as a 3, your thought?
My limited knowledge of Tj is that his game screams 6th man, primary off the bench scorer. Is this his highest and best use? Could he be elite in this role?

Thanks for your input.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#2 » by sunsbg » Sat Aug 3, 2019 1:37 pm

Was his improved shooting last year an anomaly?
Yes, he worked hard to improve over last summer and gained confidence in the 3pt shot, so it looks promising going forward, but he certainly had his ups and downs in the past, so who knows

Does he have it in him to be a 2nd scoring option on a good team?
On a defensive oriented team with a primary scoring star probably, otherwise I doubt this team will be any good

People said Bogdonovich couldn't guard anyone when we got him. Ultimately he turned into a pretty solid defender. Any potential for this with TJ?
He had a good defensive game here and there, but improving much in the future is a stretch

Word out of the Pacer organization is they see TJ strictly as a 3, your thought?
He's strictly a one-dimensional 3

My limited knowledge of Tj is that his game screams 6th man, primary off the bench scorer. Is this his highest and best use? Could he be elite in this role?
He's a capable starter, but on a team with complementing players, which was not the case on the Suns with Ayton and Booker, so he was the perfect 6th man here, but didn't want this role apparently, probably one of the reasons he's on your team now

I think a difference between Bojan and TJ is leadership/personality. Bojan was the leader of the Croatian national team in tournaments, while on the Suns I never saw TJ at that role.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#3 » by bwgood77 » Sat Aug 3, 2019 2:34 pm

Was his improved shooting last year an anomaly?


No, he shot very low volume and was hesitant his first few years in the NBA. Last year he changed his form completely, shot over 40K 3s in the offseason, and tripled his volume. He declined a bit by month, but still ended his last month at 39.5%....having started out at 48% his first month. His change in form also showed in his FT%, which went way up. I don't know that he will be 8th in the NBA in 3pt% again and shoot over 43%, but I think he will definitely be a solid 3 pt shooter, particularly with more scoring options on the floor.

Does he have it in him to be a 2nd scoring option on a good team?


He certainly has it in him. He was his team's leading scorer in college and won ACC player of the year, and was always one of the most effortless scorers for the Suns in the midrange, and now added the 3 pt shot. He his a very efficient 3pt shooter, had a 58% TS%, and I think he probably gets back to his career %s inside the arc. He dipped a bit there last year being one of the only options on the floor and facing more defenders.

People said Bogdonovich couldn't guard anyone when we got him. Ultimately he turned into a pretty solid defender. Any potential for this with TJ?


He can probably be an ok defender. He definitely improved here last year and had our highest wing DRPM outside of Bridges. He was able to stick to his man, body him up, and swipe for steals. He doesn't have as many impact plays, and isn't much of a shot blocker, but I think with a defensive coach, team, and new opportunity, he continues this improvement.

Word out of the Pacer organization is they see TJ strictly as a 3, your thought?


Yes, I think so. If you are going against a small ball unit he could play 4. Like if Boston is playing Tatum at the 4 he'd be fine. Against bigger teams like Orlando he would struggle there.

My limited knowledge of Tj is that his game screams 6th man, primary off the bench scorer. Is this his highest and best use? Could he be elite in this role?


This is probably his ideal role, depending on your starting lineup. I think if you go with a Sabonis, Turner frontcourt, 6th man could be ideal, unless Turner hangs out more at the 3 pt line on offense. But I imagine he will be on the floor for close to, if not 30 mpg, even when Oladipo returns.

I think a difference between Bojan and TJ is leadership/personality. Bojan was the leader of the Croatian national team in tournaments, while on the Suns I never saw TJ at that role.


He's definitely not a leader, in large part because he is pretty reserved and shy. He is a lot younger than Bojan was so maybe at some point he breaks out of his shell a bit. He has a little bit over time. I think he compares well to Bojan in gameplay though, as if you look at their #s, they are near identical. http://bkref.com/tiny/d0lfE

At the same age, he was quite a bit better. http://bkref.com/tiny/fYNpt

He still needs to improve defensively and with playmaking/assisting others, but he's made some progress in both areas. I definitely think you will enjoy watching him play and I think he will further develop under a good coach in Nate McMillan. He hasn't had any stability here, having had 4 coaches in 5 years, and Earl Watson for a large part of it, who was awful.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#4 » by Crives » Sat Aug 3, 2019 3:26 pm

I wouldn’t be surprised if TJ averaged an efficient 25ppg for you and made the east all star team
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#5 » by darealjuice » Sat Aug 3, 2019 3:37 pm

8305 wrote:Was his improved shooting last year an anomaly?


I don't think anyone can definitively say either way. We hoped his 40% in his sophomore season was real, but it wasn't at the time. You can pretty much guarantee he's working hard on it though. If I had to guess I'd say he'll shoot well again, just not quite like last year. The word is out that he'll shoot 3s now, but no one respected him from 3 before and it led to almost all of his 3s being open looks. Mid-range is definitely still his sweet spot.

Does he have it in him to be a 2nd scoring option on a good team?


You'll get very different answers depending on the person. That was about his role here, and obviously the results haven't been positive the last 2 years. That's definitely not all on him though. I personally think you'd want a guy that brings more to the table outside of scoring as your second option on offense, but he'll definitely put 20 points on the board if that's what you're looking for.

People said Bogdonovich couldn't guard anyone when we got him. Ultimately he turned into a pretty solid defender. Any potential for this with TJ?


I think he'll fare a bit better because he's not a defensive liability surrounded by other defensive liabilities, but he's been a bad defender here. He's kind of a tweener on defense. He's about average length-wise, not athletic enough to guard small forwards, and not physical enough to guard power forwards. He should be hidden better by you guys though.

Word out of the Pacer organization is they see TJ strictly as a 3, your thought?


That's where he should be. What's the Pacers plan at 4 with Thad gone now?

My limited knowledge of Tj is that his game screams 6th man, primary off the bench scorer. Is this his highest and best use? Could he be elite in this role?


That's how a lot of people pictured him, but we were never able to put together a good enough roster to justify bringing him off the bench. I think that's where he'd be at his best, but I will say that he didn't seem happy coming off the bench to start last season. Understandable though, coming off the bench for a terrible team reflects negatively on you.

TJ's a pretty fun player to watch. He makes a lot of shots that stop you from saying "What the **** was that" half-way through lol. He's a one-man fast break, mid-range killer, and seems to have developed into a solid catch and shoot guy from 3. I'm sure you guys will enjoy him.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#6 » by sunsbg » Sat Aug 3, 2019 4:41 pm

Crives wrote:I wouldn’t be surprised if TJ averaged an efficient 25ppg for you and made the east all star team


Yeah, probably can do it for a month, before the league realizes they have to defend him. :lol: Way to raise the expectations of another team's fanbase. Let's first see how he fits on a team that actually tries to play defense.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#7 » by 8305 » Sat Aug 3, 2019 4:51 pm

That's where he should be. What's the Pacers plan at 4 with Thad gone now?

Pacers are committing to what fans have been clamoring for for two years. Putting Sabonis and Turner on the floor together. The backup is slated to the TJ Leaf. That's two guys who could really struggle with smaller quicker guys. It sounds like Warren could be functional in those situations.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#8 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sat Aug 3, 2019 5:43 pm

You won't find a more polarizing guy in recent suns history. Some really like him, some really hate him, I fall in-between.

Outstanding feel from the mid range and around the hoop.

3 pt shooting was good last year. I expect it to regress some as teams begin to actually guard him out there but I'd guess he still shoots mid to high 30's.

Ball watcher on D without many physical traits that make up for that.

Below average rebounder at the 4, fine if he's a 3.

Very star-crossed health wise. Probably the key to his success the next couple years.

Kind of has to be one of the top offensive options because it's far and away his best skill so if he's not scoring he doesn't do enough of anything else to help in other ways.

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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#9 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sat Aug 3, 2019 6:14 pm

8305 wrote:That's where he should be. What's the Pacers plan at 4 with Thad gone now?

Pacers are committing to what fans have been clamoring for for two years. Putting Sabonis and Turner on the floor together. The backup is slated to the TJ Leaf. That's two guys who could really struggle with smaller quicker guys. It sounds like Warren could be functional in those situations.
Think it works? I like both Turner and sabonis but do have some doubts they will work well together.

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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#10 » by sunsbg » Sat Aug 3, 2019 6:16 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:You won't find a more polarizing guy in recent suns history. Some really like him, some really hate him, I fall in-between.

Outstanding feel from the mid range and around the hoop.

3 pt shooting was good last year. I expect it to regress some as teams begin to actually guard him out there but I'd guess he still shoots mid to high 30's.

Ball watcher on D without many physical traits that make up for that.

Below average rebounder at the 4, fine if he's a 3.

Very star-crossed health wise. Probably the key to his success the next couple years.

Kind of has to be one of the top offensive options because it's far and away his best skill so if he's not scoring he doesn't do enough of anything else to help in other ways.

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Hate is too strong, but otherwise agree with everything. Most fans like me just don't like him as much as others.

That last sentence explains it all. He just doesn't fit in the starting lineup with Booker and Ayton and they preferred to keep swiss-knife type of players in Oubre and Bridges, who will complement our young stars better. Had he accepted a 6th man role I'm sure all those "haters" and probably the management would have been happy to keep him on the team.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#11 » by jcsunsfan » Sat Aug 3, 2019 6:32 pm

sunsbg wrote:
Crives wrote:I wouldn’t be surprised if TJ averaged an efficient 25ppg for you and made the east all star team


Yeah, probably can do it for a month, before the league realizes they have to defend him. :lol: Way to raise the expectations of another team's fanbase. Let's first see how he fits on a team that actually tries to play defense.

You have to defend TJ tightly off the ball. When he catches, he converts VERY quickly so defenders will have no time to come to him. That is the primary secret of his game. TJ is a very good player with very efficient offense. His defense is spotty. He will work hard at times. His rebounding is poor for a forward.

He seems to be always dealing with some odd injury or another. For a while, it was head injuries. He hits the floor a LOT after scoring. He seems to be so focused on the rim that he lands awkwardly often. His injuries were so frequent and mysterious that fan had to wonder if he really WANTED to play (or play here).

We had Jackson, TJ, Oubre, Bridges. We had to decide on two of the four.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#12 » by sunsbg » Sat Aug 3, 2019 7:07 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
Crives wrote:I wouldn’t be surprised if TJ averaged an efficient 25ppg for you and made the east all star team


Yeah, probably can do it for a month, before the league realizes they have to defend him. :lol: Way to raise the expectations of another team's fanbase. Let's first see how he fits on a team that actually tries to play defense.

You have to defend TJ tightly off the ball. When he catches, he converts VERY quickly so defenders will have no time to come to him. That is the primary secret of his game. TJ is a very good player with very efficient offense. His defense is spotty. He will work hard at times. His rebounding is poor for a forward.

He seems to be always dealing with some odd injury or another. For a while, it was head injuries. He hits the floor a LOT after scoring. He seems to be so focused on the rim that he lands awkwardly often. His injuries were so frequent and mysterious that fan had to wonder if he really WANTED to play (or play here).

We had Jackson, TJ, Oubre, Bridges. We had to decide on two of the four.


He's basically less athletic Cedric Ceballos.

Btw looking at his stats Ceballos' had two seasons with near 40 3PT% shooting that dropped significantly next seasons. Not saying it's going to happen to Warren too as number of attempts is smaller, but you never know.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#13 » by 8305 » Sat Aug 3, 2019 7:28 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
8305 wrote:That's where he should be. What's the Pacers plan at 4 with Thad gone now?

Pacers are committing to what fans have been clamoring for for two years. Putting Sabonis and Turner on the floor together. The backup is slated to the TJ Leaf. That's two guys who could really struggle with smaller quicker guys. It sounds like Warren could be functional in those situations.
Think it works? I like both Turner and sabonis but do have some doubts they will work well together.

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I'm pretty optimistic. I like it when we run offense through Sabonis at the high post. That should be a nice addition to our starting line up. Turner is a better shooter than Thad. Seems that combination should make it easier for us to score. We will miss Thad's defense (ability to guard multiple positions). But Sabonis isn't that bad when he has to step out on the floor. We may struggle early but i don't think it will be because of Turner/Sabonis.

Thanks for all the comments. I enjoyed reading them.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#14 » by ZER0 » Sat Aug 3, 2019 9:04 pm

Just don't trade him. Or your organization will be crucified for doing so.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#15 » by Moochthemonkey » Sat Aug 3, 2019 9:32 pm

ZER0 wrote:Just don't give him away with a 2nd pick. Or your organization will be crucified for doing so.


fix'd
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#16 » by Wilber85 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 12:43 am

Crives wrote:I wouldn’t be surprised if TJ averaged an efficient 25ppg for you and made the east all star team


I’ll bet you $100 he won’t avg 20 ppg +
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#17 » by Wilber85 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 12:44 am

Warren is trash. He will play 60 games at most and avg 16 ppg for your team with no defense . Can’t wait to shut up all the suns fans who thought this dude avg 18 ppg on a 19 win team was good
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#18 » by ZER0 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 2:33 am

Moochthemonkey wrote:
ZER0 wrote:Just don't give him away with a 2nd pick. Or your organization will be crucified for doing so.


fix'd


Wow, still butthurt I see. Put a gun to my head and have me choose between Warren or Rubio, and I choose Rubio every single time.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#19 » by Moochthemonkey » Sun Aug 4, 2019 3:01 am

ZER0 wrote:
Moochthemonkey wrote:
ZER0 wrote:Just don't give him away with a 2nd pick. Or your organization will be crucified for doing so.


fix'd


Wow, still butthurt I see.


I'm a little more butthurt over the principle & return of the trade over losing Warren himself tbh

Put a gun to my head and have me choose between Warren or Rubio, and I choose Rubio every single time.


But there probably was no gun to JoBro's head, just the suppressed laughter of an exec getting the much better side of a deal.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#20 » by Fo-Real » Sun Aug 4, 2019 4:02 am

WHO?!?!

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