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2019 season speculation

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Kerrsed, Qwigglez

This summer if you could only keep one, Baynes at $10mil + or Saric at $15mil +, who do you choose?

Baynes at $10 million
34
69%
Saric at $15 million
15
31%
 
Total votes: 49

Saberestar
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Re: 2019 season speculation: Just one more week til season opener OMG!! 

Post#661 » by Saberestar » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:31 pm

Crives wrote:How would you set the player rotations?

After preseason I am liking something like this for the 1st half.

Rotation 1 (0-6)
PG - Rubio
SG - Booker
SF - Kelly (would rather start Bridges but this is inevitable)
PF - Saric
C - Ayton

Rotation 2 (6-10)
PG - Booker
SG - Bridges
SF - Oubre
PF - Saric
C - Baynes

Rotation 3 (10 - 12)
PG - Rubio
SG - Tyler
SF - Bridges
PF - Frank
C - Ayton

Rotation 4 (12-17)
PG - Rubio
SG - Tyler
SF - Cam
PF - Frank
C - Ayton

Rotation 5 (17-21)
PG - Booker
SG - Cam
SF - Oubre
PF - Dario
C - Baynes

Rotation 6 (21-24)
PG - Rubio
SG - Booker
SF - Oubre
PF - Dario
C - Ayton

In all the preseson games we have played Tyler Johnson ( but he did not play some game) as a backup SG. So, I am pretty sure that Carter or Jerome will play minutes as a backup PG.

I do not know about the minute's distribution, but I think we will play this lineup at the start of the season:

Rubio/Carter
Book/Tyler Johnson
Oubre/Bridges
Saric/Kaminsky
Ayton/Baynes

I expect Jerome and Cam Johnson to play some minutes here or there, but not on the rotation every single game. Probably Jerome plays over Carter as a backup PG, but I think Monty loves the defensive minded mentality that Carter brings to the team.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: Just one more week til season opener OMG!! 

Post#662 » by bigfoot » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:56 pm

GoodBehavior wrote:
SunsLyf3 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:It's strange to see so many people bashing Ayton so badly and a bunch talking about trading him for Towns before we've even played 1 game.

I'm used to seeing people more pumped up going into the season and not getting down until 10 games in (or in some years 2 or 3).

But a second year player before he's played getting this much negative talk, and talk of trading him, especially considering our draft picks the two years before, is a bit bizarre.

2nd year player who had a historic rookie season nonetheless. People are still sore about Luka and its becoming a cancer here.


+1, hit it right on the nail. Subconscious racial preference as well. You all know what I am talking about.


This comment is a piece of sh*t and shouldn't be allowed. You missed the thread in Apr/May/June of 2018 in regards to who should be drafted. Half the board wanted Doncic and half Ayton. Basically you're saying half our poster are racist ... what an ill-informed asswipe.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: Just one more week til season opener OMG!! 

Post#663 » by GoodBehavior » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:16 pm

bigfoot wrote:
GoodBehavior wrote:
SunsLyf3 wrote:2nd year player who had a historic rookie season nonetheless. People are still sore about Luka and its becoming a cancer here.


+1, hit it right on the nail. Subconscious racial preference as well. You all know what I am talking about.


This comment is a piece of sh*t and shouldn't be allowed. You missed the thread in Apr/May/June of 2018 in regards to who should be drafted. Half the board wanted Doncic and half Ayton. Basically you're saying half our poster are racist ... what an ill-informed asswipe.


Do you understand the difference between racial preference and racism? Are you naive enough to think that people don't have racial preference?

Are you going to pretend that there's not a constituent of people who have a preference for Euro-centric players, but are not racist? I happen to love Ricky Rubio, I am not going to pretend that his background isn't a consideration for my preference. Does that make me a racist? I don't think so.

I don't live in la-la land. Do you?
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Re: 2019 season speculation: Just one more week til season opener OMG!! 

Post#664 » by GoodBehavior » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:36 pm

MathiasPW wrote:
GoodBehavior wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
True, but some were high on Oubre last year, particularly after the all star break, and Ayton also had Booker, Tyler Johnson, and Bridges after the break. Doncic was more or less playing the Booker role with rookie Jalen Brunson, Dorian Finney-Smith, Dwight Powell and Kleber. Kleber and Brunson are both decent but maybe not the best 2nd and 3rd best players. If thsoe were there best players Ayton was playing with he may have done worse than Doncic.


Bwgood, I think I have had enough of your duplicity. I think it is about time, someone stood up to you and lilfishi22. I was hoping someone would call you and him out already. That hasn't happened: maybe people are intimidated by your and lilfishi22's Moderator Status. Let me assure you that your standing on this forum means nothing to me. I cannot no longer stand by while the two of you continue unchecked and sit on your ivory tower, smug and unscathed. What needs to be said, have to be said:

a. Moderators are largely responsible for the irrational DA-bashing

When I say moderators, I am mostly referring to you (Bwgood) and lilfishi22 (not guys like Qwigglez). You both have an unhealthy obsession with the 2018 draft. Everyone knows your preference. Last season's toxic environment was because of the debate on who should have been picked in 2018. If you go back and read the discussion, lilifishi22 is right in the middle of it all (one of the chief instigator) and while you were not as overt as him, you were constantly stoking the fire: criticizing literally everything the 20 year old damn ROOKIE did while apologetically forgiving (or ignoring) the shortcomings of other draftees.

The DA-bashing got so bad, that it was finally reigned in, partly by you ... except, you and him start deploying passive-aggressive tactics. These tactics have the same results, and we're back to square one of bashing DA again, except you and him are smart to not mention the other draftee's name, and keep subtly undermining DA ad nauseam.

b. But the Passive-Aggressive nonsense is fooling no one. The Duplicity is insulting

I have more respect for guys like Frank Lee, who are obvious and upfront. You can hate his opinion but you have to at least respect the matter he goes about it. What you and lilfishi22 do is disturbing. You and him pretend to be "objective", "rational", "unbiased", "I only want whats best for the team" and deploy questionable tactics. You and him criticize DA, 9 out of 10 posts, but you make sure to have one "positive" thing to say about him, in 1 of the 10 post, to give people the fake appearance: "see how objective I am. I mention this one positive. I am definitely not bashing him." The two of you are fooling nobody.

It gets worse. Lilifishi22 had a positive comment on the Cam Johnson, but threw in a dig at DA. He commented on a completely unremarkable stats: Cam got to the line 4 times (who cares?) in four games and then make sure you know that DA had zero. The subterfuge is strong.

I have glanced at most of your and his' Mavericks-related postings. You both are unequivocally Maverick-apologists. To deny otherwise is foolish, people have a right to question your objectivity and your allegiance. If you and him can't divorce yourself from what occurred during the 2018 draft and still lived in some strange past hoping to be proven correct on your 2018 draft insights, you and him should not have the right to moderate a SUNS FORUM.

There have been a number of positive DA's post or posting that defends the kid. On the majority of them, YOU are the one that constant nitpick on something to undermine the underling positive messages. This week's postings are a perfect example. Of course, you have to say something positive in 1 out of the 10 posts to keep up that "unbiased" mirage. The worse part is when you act "surprised" that people are bashing the kid, all the while you nip in the bud anything that is positive about him. That is duplicity. So let not pretend to be "surprised" that people are bashing him, when the top moderator (the most influential poster, I might add) is constantly bringing him down.

c. You and lilfishi22 are the worst fans I have seen in my 37 years. Any modicum of success this team has, I hope you enjoy none of it. It would be an injustice to all the long suffering Suns fans for the both of you to enjoy any of this team success

Because of your tenure and the relationships you forged over the years, a number of people will come to your defense. Please spare me the "he means well" or "you're wrong, he's a good dude. you're overreacting." Also please spar me the mental gymnastic of justifying or rationalizing your and his past behaviors. I am pretty sure if you look hard enough, you can try to convince people that I am wrong and that you were badly misinterpreted. I don't care.

Nor do I want to engage in a dialogue with either of you on this matter, because I am convinced neither of you are going to see the light and admit to your transgressions. This post is for people who are so fed up with your and his toxic antic but were afraid to voice it. I have never come across such vitriolic and deceitful behaviors. I stand by my comment that you and him are godawful and terrible Suns fans and while I hope you both lead meaningful lives outside the game of NBA, I don't think it's right for you to enjoy any of this team success. It would be plain wrong.


They are probably having a secret meeting now on how to get you banned and make it look unbiased.


It is to be expected that the chorus of getting me ban will be there. It will have little effect on me. I am a long, long, long time lurker on this forum. So the only thing that would change is my avoidance of this forum. And I have largely avoided contributing too many posts, as the environment for dissenting opinions is not exactly welcoming.

Funny thing is that if someone read what I wrote, it is in their nature to assume some level of exaggeration. But there isn't. I always craft my response with careful consideration, there is not a hyperbolic statement in my writing. I regret joining for the sake of expressing my opinion, and my love of the Suns and DA. I hope people who come across my writing, understand what they going up against, and don't make the same mistake I did.

Best of luck everyone, if you don't hear from me.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: Just one more week til season opener OMG!! 

Post#665 » by Crives » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:00 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Crives wrote:How would you set the player rotations?

After preseason I am liking something like this for the 1st half.

Rotation 1 (0-6)
PG - Rubio
SG - Booker
SF - Kelly (would rather start Bridges but this is inevitable)
PF - Saric
C - Ayton

Rotation 2 (6-10)
PG - Booker
SG - Bridges
SF - Oubre
PF - Saric
C - Baynes

Rotation 3 (10 - 12)
PG - Rubio
SG - Tyler
SF - Bridges
PF - Frank
C - Ayton

Rotation 4 (12-17)
PG - Rubio
SG - Tyler
SF - Cam
PF - Frank
C - Ayton

Rotation 5 (17-21)
PG - Booker
SG - Cam
SF - Oubre
PF - Dario
C - Baynes

Rotation 6 (21-24)
PG - Rubio
SG - Booker
SF - Oubre
PF - Dario
C - Ayton

In all the preseson games we have played Tyler Johnson ( but he did not play some game) as a backup SG. So, I am pretty sure that Carter or Jerome will play minutes as a backup PG.

I do not know about the minute's distribution, but I think we will play this lineup at the start of the season:

Rubio/Carter
Book/Tyler Johnson
Oubre/Bridges
Saric/Kaminsky
Ayton/Baynes

I expect Jerome and Cam Johnson to play some minutes here or there, but not on the rotation every single game. Probably Jerome plays over Carter as a backup PG, but I think Monty loves the defensive minded mentality that Carter brings to the team.


I kind of hope we go to a 9 man rotation.. because that means Bridges is playing well so we can get him closer to 30mpg
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#666 » by alamin330 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:04 pm

The Ayton Doncic comparisons are getting a little ridiculous. They play different positions on different teams with different game plans. It’s crazy. Ayton is amazing for a young big. Doncic would be amazing as well if he didn’t already have professional basketball experience. Smh. A lot of backward thinkers on this forum who like to dwell on what coulda been instead of looking towards the future. People who look backwards in life never prosper if you haven’t learned anything from Sodom and Gomorrah. If Ayton was drafted by the mavs or if Carlisle was coaching Ayton the same way he did Doncic I’d be willing to bet a lot of money that Ayton would’ve won ROY. Just like if Carlisle was coaching Trae young he would’ve probably won ROY. everything must be taken in context.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: Just one more week til season opener OMG!! 

Post#667 » by bigfoot » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:20 pm

GoodBehavior wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
GoodBehavior wrote:
+1, hit it right on the nail. Subconscious racial preference as well. You all know what I am talking about.


This comment is a piece of sh*t and shouldn't be allowed. You missed the thread in Apr/May/June of 2018 in regards to who should be drafted. Half the board wanted Doncic and half Ayton. Basically you're saying half our poster are racist ... what an ill-informed asswipe.


Do you understand the difference between racial preference and racism? Are you naive enough to think that people don't have racial preference?

Are you going to pretend that there's not a constituent of people who have a preference for Euro-centric players, but are not racist? I happen to love Ricky Rubio, I am not going to pretend that his background isn't a consideration for my preference. Does that make me a racist? I don't think so.

I don't live in la-la land. Do you?


Fine ... let's give it another term. Your post was race baiting. It brought nothing valuable to the discussion other than to try to inflame posters on the board. Goes against the grain of your previous comment ... "I always craft my response with careful consideration, there is not a hyperbolic statement in my writing."
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#668 » by Fo-Real » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:35 pm

Yep, I haven't missed anything important here last few. First game in a few days, good day gents!
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#669 » by bwgood77 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:25 pm

There is no "chorus" of a ban. People are free to give their opinions as long as they are not breaking rules. Though I do find it odd that it is written that "as the environment for dissenting opinions is not exactly welcoming" when an accusation of dissenting opinions is what is being complained about.

There are all sorts of opinions about all of our players. People are high and low on various players...that has nothing to do with their level of fandom.

I am an Ayton fan, even though I may have been leaning another way at the draft, but it was actually pretty close for me. There were just certain tendencies from him I worried about a bit, being a UA fan.

Being such a long term die hard Suns fan is why I am passionate and will speak my mind, and I think that goes for many here, even though we all have different opinions. People are encouraged to post how they feel about certain players, be honest about how they feel...they don't have to become instant homers of whoever we do have.

I have long mentioned I think and hope Ayton can improve and the areas he needs to improve on. I wouldn't say I bash him...I was actually surprised to see it (and people wanting to trade him before the season) in game threads and on twitter recently, and said as much, particularly before the season when we don't know how much he has improved in the offseason yet.

If people have issues with mods, people should contact the mods or the admin. Discuss opinions, not people. Attacking people is not really okay.

Different opinions should be respected without resenting them to the point of over analyzing the motives and developing feelings of not wanting those who think differently to enjoy team success.

No user is banned for having different basketball opinions. No reasonable person typically wishes other fans don't enjoy team success because they think differently. No rules against thinking differently. There are rules though against personal attacks and baiting. So best to just stick to basketball.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: Just one more week til season opener OMG!! 

Post#670 » by MathiasPW » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:47 pm

GoodBehavior wrote:
MathiasPW wrote:
GoodBehavior wrote:
Bwgood, I think I have had enough of your duplicity. I think it is about time, someone stood up to you and lilfishi22. I was hoping someone would call you and him out already. That hasn't happened: maybe people are intimidated by your and lilfishi22's Moderator Status. Let me assure you that your standing on this forum means nothing to me. I cannot no longer stand by while the two of you continue unchecked and sit on your ivory tower, smug and unscathed. What needs to be said, have to be said:

a. Moderators are largely responsible for the irrational DA-bashing

When I say moderators, I am mostly referring to you (Bwgood) and lilfishi22 (not guys like Qwigglez). You both have an unhealthy obsession with the 2018 draft. Everyone knows your preference. Last season's toxic environment was because of the debate on who should have been picked in 2018. If you go back and read the discussion, lilifishi22 is right in the middle of it all (one of the chief instigator) and while you were not as overt as him, you were constantly stoking the fire: criticizing literally everything the 20 year old damn ROOKIE did while apologetically forgiving (or ignoring) the shortcomings of other draftees.

The DA-bashing got so bad, that it was finally reigned in, partly by you ... except, you and him start deploying passive-aggressive tactics. These tactics have the same results, and we're back to square one of bashing DA again, except you and him are smart to not mention the other draftee's name, and keep subtly undermining DA ad nauseam.

b. But the Passive-Aggressive nonsense is fooling no one. The Duplicity is insulting

I have more respect for guys like Frank Lee, who are obvious and upfront. You can hate his opinion but you have to at least respect the matter he goes about it. What you and lilfishi22 do is disturbing. You and him pretend to be "objective", "rational", "unbiased", "I only want whats best for the team" and deploy questionable tactics. You and him criticize DA, 9 out of 10 posts, but you make sure to have one "positive" thing to say about him, in 1 of the 10 post, to give people the fake appearance: "see how objective I am. I mention this one positive. I am definitely not bashing him." The two of you are fooling nobody.

It gets worse. Lilifishi22 had a positive comment on the Cam Johnson, but threw in a dig at DA. He commented on a completely unremarkable stats: Cam got to the line 4 times (who cares?) in four games and then make sure you know that DA had zero. The subterfuge is strong.

I have glanced at most of your and his' Mavericks-related postings. You both are unequivocally Maverick-apologists. To deny otherwise is foolish, people have a right to question your objectivity and your allegiance. If you and him can't divorce yourself from what occurred during the 2018 draft and still lived in some strange past hoping to be proven correct on your 2018 draft insights, you and him should not have the right to moderate a SUNS FORUM.

There have been a number of positive DA's post or posting that defends the kid. On the majority of them, YOU are the one that constant nitpick on something to undermine the underling positive messages. This week's postings are a perfect example. Of course, you have to say something positive in 1 out of the 10 posts to keep up that "unbiased" mirage. The worse part is when you act "surprised" that people are bashing the kid, all the while you nip in the bud anything that is positive about him. That is duplicity. So let not pretend to be "surprised" that people are bashing him, when the top moderator (the most influential poster, I might add) is constantly bringing him down.

c. You and lilfishi22 are the worst fans I have seen in my 37 years. Any modicum of success this team has, I hope you enjoy none of it. It would be an injustice to all the long suffering Suns fans for the both of you to enjoy any of this team success

Because of your tenure and the relationships you forged over the years, a number of people will come to your defense. Please spare me the "he means well" or "you're wrong, he's a good dude. you're overreacting." Also please spar me the mental gymnastic of justifying or rationalizing your and his past behaviors. I am pretty sure if you look hard enough, you can try to convince people that I am wrong and that you were badly misinterpreted. I don't care.

Nor do I want to engage in a dialogue with either of you on this matter, because I am convinced neither of you are going to see the light and admit to your transgressions. This post is for people who are so fed up with your and his toxic antic but were afraid to voice it. I have never come across such vitriolic and deceitful behaviors. I stand by my comment that you and him are godawful and terrible Suns fans and while I hope you both lead meaningful lives outside the game of NBA, I don't think it's right for you to enjoy any of this team success. It would be plain wrong.


They are probably having a secret meeting now on how to get you banned and make it look unbiased.


It is to be expected that the chorus of getting me ban will be there. It will have little effect on me. I am a long, long, long time lurker on this forum. So the only thing that would change is my avoidance of this forum. And I have largely avoided contributing too many posts, as the environment for dissenting opinions is not exactly welcoming.

Funny thing is that if someone read what I wrote, it is in their nature to assume some level of exaggeration. But there isn't. I always craft my response with careful consideration, there is not a hyperbolic statement in my writing. I regret joining for the sake of expressing my opinion, and my love of the Suns and DA. I hope people who come across my writing, understand what they going up against, and don't make the same mistake I did.

Best of luck everyone, if you don't hear from me.


Your conspiracy theory of mods undermining any Ayton appraisal and your argument that their "allegiance and objectivity must be questioned" just because they weren't fans of the Ayton pick, is, to put it mildly, total crap.

The fact people dont agree with your opinion on one player and you don't like the way they place their arguments makes them "the worst posters you've seen in 37 years"? Come on.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: Just one more week til season opener OMG!! 

Post#671 » by lilfishi22 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:37 pm

I didn't register to this board back 12 years ago to become a mod and moderate the board to *my* liking. I registered because I want to talk Suns and I want to have good discussions with other Suns fans about how we were playing, how we can get better and how we can get that chip. Never was it my goal to become a mod with the intention of creating my own echo chamber.

If anyone is not a fan of my opinion or my posts, feel free to put me on ignore because I will continue to praise and criticise Ayton (as well as anyone putting on a Suns uniform) when it calls for it.

FWIW, I've always enjoyed going back and forth with GoodBehavior. Never had an issue with his posts and I've always been respectful and measured with my replies to him even when I don't agree. As long as rules aren't broken, posters won't be banned and I certainly don't care to ban someone who I think is a solid contributor to the board, even if he called me out. I'll take the call out constructively where I think it's due but the rest is just water off a duck's back for me
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2019 season speculation: Just one more week til season opener OMG!! 

Post#672 » by bigfoot » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:43 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:I didn't register to this board back 12 years ago to become a mod and moderate the board to *my* liking. I registered because I want to talk Suns and I want to have good discussions with other Suns fans about how we were playing, how we can get better and how we can get that chip. Never was it my goal to become a mod with the intention of creating my own echo chamber.

If anyone is not a fan of my opinion or my posts, feel free to put me on ignore because I will continue to praise and criticise Ayton (as well as anyone putting on a Suns uniform) when it calls for it.

FWIW, I've always enjoyed going back and forth with GoodBehavior. Never had an issue with his posts and I've always been respectful and measured with my replies to him even when I don't agree. As long as rules aren't broken, posters won't be banned and I certainly don't care to ban someone who I think is a solid contributor to the board, even if he called me out. I'll take the call out constructively where I think it's due but the rest is just water off a duck's back for me


I fully believe you mods were responsible for all the PJ Tucker hate generated on this board during his tenure with the Suns. :biggrin:
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Re: 2019 season speculation: Just one more week til season opener OMG!! 

Post#673 » by lilfishi22 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:58 pm

bigfoot wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I didn't register to this board back 12 years ago to become a mod and moderate the board to *my* liking. I registered because I want to talk Suns and I want to have good discussions with other Suns fans about how we were playing, how we can get better and how we can get that chip. Never was it my goal to become a mod with the intention of creating my own echo chamber.

If anyone is not a fan of my opinion or my posts, feel free to put me on ignore because I will continue to praise and criticise Ayton (as well as anyone putting on a Suns uniform) when it calls for it.

FWIW, I've always enjoyed going back and forth with GoodBehavior. Never had an issue with his posts and I've always been respectful and measured with my replies to him even when I don't agree. As long as rules aren't broken, posters won't be banned and I certainly don't care to ban someone who I think is a solid contributor to the board, even if he called me out. I'll take the call out constructively where I think it's due but the rest is just water off a duck's back for me


I fully believe you mods were responsible for all the PJ Tucker hate generated on this board during his tenure with the Suns. :biggrin:

Ahh yes, I was always surprised by the amount of hate PJ received. Interestingly, I was one of the last PJ Tucker supporters on this board even when the hoard of posters wanted him gone for the boneheaded plays he made. But as soon as he left, he took with him the only bit of toughness we had. I was happy he got to play on a contender though and really show his worth. Rockets wouldn't be the elite contender they were the last few couple without him.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#674 » by bwgood77 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:10 pm

Crives wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Crives wrote:
I like the KP potential... but I think people are overrating a player who has been out for 18 months.

Small sample size.. but in preseason KP is averaging

blocks (per 36) = 0.8 (Ayton = 1.8 :) )
3pt% = 28.6%
TS% = 48.9%

Probably comes back to form... but I would be worried right now if I am Dallas... if KP doesn’t play up to that 5 year max they are in big trouble... not to mention the injury risk.

It’s possible Frank/Kaminsky are more valuable dollar for dollar this season after what we have seen in preseason.

I get the concern, especially coming back from that kind of injury and also how will he hold up going forward. I still think he's a super stud (I was pissed when we couldn't even get into the conversation to become a trade partner because of previous front offices moves) and wished we could've gotten him. His defense is potentially game changing and so is his offense which is still a work in progress although his versatility on that end has already revealed itself.

KP at the max is worth it if he stayed healthy. That's a big IF. Personally and honestly, I don't see the Saric/Kaminsky PF rotation as anything for the future. I love Saric but I'm not convinced we're keeping him long term to be our PF of the future. With Kaminsky, I always saw him as a short term solution until we figure out what we're going to do here.


I might prefer a pf with a bit more defense.. would love someone like Jerami Grant (likely FA next summer)

But I think Jones has shown his card about the type of players he likes... shooting, passing and smart decision making.... if Saric/Kaminsky are close to 40% 3 PT shooters I have a hard time not seeing them in Jones long term plan...

A PF like KP that can defend the rim and shoot is very intriguing... but KP didn’t show off these skills very well in preseason... he needs to play a lot better to deserve that max... we will find out soon.


Kaminsky is looking good for the money. If he plays to his potential we saw coming out of college, that's a good signing, and this coming from someone who didn't like it much at the time. But still, I am basing that on one preseason game, and we all know how fast things change.

Saric I think has skills but he looks slow out there, and kind of like a lumbering big that isn't light on his feet. He is a fairly smart player I think but I can't see him being a long term answer. I don't see putting a lot of money in him being a good idea this next summer (though that's way premature since, again, all we've seen is a little preseason). I would probably be more excited had we just taken Culver and not traded down (even though I liked it at the time thinking we could get Clarke or PJ). Though I like Cam..I am not sure if he will be a big piece going forward (Klay light) or just a role player (James Jones). I think we made the trade before the draft. I wonder if we didnt think Culver would be available when we traded the pick, knowing we worked him out (like when it was rumored we didn't think Iguodala or Deng would be available when we traded the pick in 2004).
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#675 » by Frank Lee » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:28 pm

The only color I hate is orange..... I am a Purple-supremist

Good to see the passion here (or is it frustration) though it can get a little off the rails. Kind of fitting for our times eh?

My Beef with Ayton goes back to day one he was a Sun.... his 'Looking forward to the second contract' comment was a red flag and immediately he should have been assigned a PR coach. First thing he did on draft day was flash his new watch to the camera when he was introduced. I get it... yay money.(any doubts he got paid to be a Mildcat?) And I just can't get over that GD dance/prance video.
I really think the dude is a 12 yr old upstairs. He's a goof and until he takes this game seriously, he will never be a great as he and we have been told. Sure, he put up some good stats and likely will continue to do so. But they are as empty as anyones. He's not a good rebounder, he's a good outjumper. Cant pass, can't dribble. He loafs up and down the court.....There is very little in the technique department he excels at. May be his one on one d is above average as his length does bother people. But I see little else good in his game that doesn't directly result from his length and athleticism. He does have a nice touch close in, yet he is ready to fall in love with the three. No surprises he's angling for a PF slot. I think there are about ten dudes (Cs) he is just flat out afraid to play. Of course Steven Adams would create a turd in my britches too. But Ayton could be one of the more physically dominating bigs, yet he shies away from being physical. Wish we could just transplant Stat's brain into him. He's miles behind mentally. I guess that's where it not fair, comparing him to Stat. Amare grew up hard and it showed in every dunk. Ayton... he's feathery soft, coddled.

Until he proves otherwise, he's a hyped up complimentary player to me. This is Book's team. Don't corrupt it trying to make this kid something he is clearly not ready to be.

At least he is nice and not a rumphole. Cant wait till he's 18. But my days are numbered (as is everyones)
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#676 » by bhawk » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:36 pm

Spoiler:
quote="Frank Lee"]The only color I hate is orange..... I am a Purple-supremist

Good to see the passion here (or is it frustration) though it can get a little off the rails. Kind of fitting for our times eh?

My Beef with Ayton goes back to day one he was a Sun.... his 'Looking forward to the second contract' comment was a red flag and immediately he should have been assigned a PR coach. First thing he did on draft day was flash his new watch to the camera when he was introduced. I get it... yay money.(any doubts he got paid to be a Mildcat?) And I just can't get over that GD dance/prance video.
I really think the dude is a 12 yr old upstairs. He's a goof and until he takes this game seriously, he will never be a great as he and we have been told. Sure, he put up some good stats and likely will continue to do so. But they are as empty as anyones. He's not a good rebounder, he's a good outjumper. Cant pass, can't dribble. He loafs up and down the court.....There is very little in the technique department he excels at. May be his one on one d is above average as his length does bother people. But I see little else good in his game that doesn't directly result from his length and athleticism. He does have a nice touch close in, yet he is ready to fall in love with the three. No surprises he's angling for a PF slot. I think there are about ten dudes (Cs) he is just flat out afraid to play. Of course Steven Adams would create a turd in my britches too. But Ayton could be one of the more physically dominating bigs, yet he shies away from being physical. Wish we could just transplant Stat's brain into him. He's miles behind mentally. I guess that's where it not fair, comparing him to Stat. Amare grew up hard and it showed in every dunk. Ayton... he's feathery soft, coddled.
Until he proves otherwise, he's a hyped up complimentary player to me. This is Book's team. Don't corrupt it trying to make this kid something he is clearly not ready to be.

At least he is nice and not a rumphole. Cant wait till he's 18. But my days are numbered (as is everyones)[/quote]

Preach it Frank! Your observations and descriptions are spot on. I agree with most everything you have said about Ayton. Count me in as a fan who went from David Robinson to Darko on Ayton... maybe Darko is too harsh, but I have been disappointed in the Ayton package. When I boil it down... he's just young. Really young and immature and not ready for a MAN's game.

He's afraid of 10 centers in the league because they are experienced MEN who have had to work A LOT harder than Ayton in their lives. Their was a game last year (Detroit?)... late season... where the opposing bench was laughing at how charmin soft he was. They kept attacking him in the low post, and Ayton just sulked around and eventually to the bench.

I would argue that there isn't a better physical profile in the NBA than Ayton. He is as close as we have seen to Robinson physically. Yet, he has less passion, drive and ambition than even the average centers in the NBA. And most average centers play better than Ayton on a given night. Someone needs to kick him in the ass... put him on his ass... and find his primordial passion to HIT BACK. Where are his fight-or-flight instincts? Is he going to be the tall, goofy NERD of the NBA?

"so sorry guys... it is your turn to score. Oh here is the ball... sorry about that... please don't hit me. wanna see me dance? huh, huh, huh."

He is young. He is young. I know... but it is so frustrating, as a fan, to see god-given size and skills wasting away because of... youth. Grow up Ayton! We don't have time for your goofy ass interviews talking about how your GOING to push (bully) people around. It never happens, so stop it.

Disclaimer... I just want the Suns to be good. I will cheer for players who care about the game as much as we (the fans) do. And if they forsake the people who ultimately buy their fancy watches, big houses and nice cars, then **** you. Take the game seriously and do your job. If you don't like basketball, don't play.

I like Ayton because he is on the Suns and I do believe in his physical abilities and his LONG term potential. He will grow up. He will be a MUCH different person at 25 than 21. He will have more experience, more confidence, more basketball skill. But that is a LOOONG ways away. We may all be sick of Ayton by then and he walks because we won't pay his pansy-ass.

Drafting youth and potential is hard. It took Steph Curry and many, many others 5+ years to figure it out. Patience eludes me and most average fans. Let''s go Ayton! Figure it out this year!
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#677 » by bwgood77 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:51 pm

I don't disagree with the Ayton stuff above. That was a good characterization about the players caring about the game as much as the fans do.

It's still a little hard for me to judge before the season because I hold out hope that with an offseason with a new coach and new things to work on, he will show up and show some drastic improvement in areas when we are playing regular season games. And I imagine he will continue to improve throughout the season.

But that fire, passion, etc, and intensity, being tough and setting hard screens. Those are the things that I hope the most to see some of and that I'm most worried about. However, if he is a student of the game and really works as hard as they say and asks a lot of questions, he could be a really smart player who learns to position himself well and do great things without that kind of intensity (like a TD who has years in college to improve his game before going pro...as did Robinson, Akeem, Shaq, etc).

Even Embiid sat out two full years and more than half of his 3rd studying tape before he got in the game close to full time (still has been in low 60s the last two years).
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#678 » by Crives » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:25 pm

Dang... was hoping this dragged into Wednesday’s
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#679 » by Jarlaxle0204 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:36 pm

I really hope we win that first game against Sacramento. I don't see a win in the next 3 games against the elite of the west. It would be a bummer to be winless a week in going into the GS game.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#680 » by Crives » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:44 pm

Jarlaxle0204 wrote:I really hope we win that first game against Sacramento. I don't see a win in the next 3 games against the elite of the west. It would be a bummer to be winless a week in going into the GS game.


Surprisingly I could see the Clippers being our best chance at a win in the first 4 games... they had a poor preseason.. might take them a few weeks to gel.

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