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2019 season speculation

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Kerrsed, Qwigglez

This summer if you could only keep one, Baynes at $10mil + or Saric at $15mil +, who do you choose?

Baynes at $10 million
39
70%
Saric at $15 million
17
30%
 
Total votes: 56

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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#701 » by LukasBMW » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:19 am

Zion is so unique with his size and strength, but the amount of strain his muscles put on his joints is significant.

Derek Rose is a good comp for the intensity they play at, but Zion is so much stronger.

I hope Zion has a long career, but sometimes the guys with these unique bodies have trouble staying healthy.

This is where I like Ayton. Ayton is BIG and Athletic but he is build to last.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#702 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:37 am

LukasBMW wrote:Zion is so unique with his size and strength, but the amount of strain his muscles put on his joints is significant.

Derek Rose is a good comp for the intensity they play at, but Zion is so much stronger.

I hope Zion has a long career, but sometimes the guys with these unique bodies have trouble staying healthy.

This is where I like Ayton. Ayton is BIG and Athletic but he is build to last.
Ayton never plays hard enough to get hurt :) I kid i kid

The menicus is concerning for Zion. It's basically the cushion in the knee and judging from the quick timeline to return it's probably a trim job where they remove a piece of it. Definitely some long term concern with his legs holding up to all the weight. Hell probably have to cut weight down a little at some point.

Now on the optimistic side lots of guys have had menicus injuries and played a long time.

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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#703 » by Saberestar » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:49 am

A lot of extensions done today... Buddy Hield $94M, Domantas Sabonis $77M, Jaylen Brown $115M and Tauren Prince $29M for just two years.

I think Jaylen is overpaid, but he is a young two-way player that can play perfectly two positions, he could start on any team in the league so that contract is gonna have neutral value at worst.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#704 » by bwgood77 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:31 am

Pelicans could still be interesting, even without Zion. They will have to play really small, but they should still have a pretty good rim protector in Favors and a ton of depth at guard.

They can go:

Ball/Nickeil Alexander Walker/Frank Jackson
Holiday/Josh Hart
Redick/E'twaun Moore
Ingram/Kenrich Williams
Favors/Okafor/Jaxson Hayes

They are obviously weak up front without Zion...but Okafor has improved (I think). They will just have to go small, but have nice depth there to keep a pretty good 3 guard lineup on the floor.

Obviously with the west as tough as it is, they will be hard pressed to win, like all teams, but depending on how well Ingram plays, I think they could still be pretty tough.

Toronto will probably kill them tomorrow, but I think that is more because I am really high on Toronto, and they are still stacked and two deep everywhere with extremely tough D.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#705 » by bwgood77 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:32 am

Saberestar wrote:A lot of extensions done today... Buddy Hield $94M, Domantas Sabonis $77M, Jaylen Brown $115M and Tauren Prince $29M for just two years.

I think Jaylen is overpaid, but he is a young two-way player that can play perfectly two positions, he could start on any team in the league so that contract is gonna have neutral value at worst.


Dejounte Murray got a pretty reasonable deal at 4/$64
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#706 » by Saberestar » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:34 am

Troy Williams is back...
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#707 » by MathiasPW » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:34 am

lilfishi22 wrote:I really thought pre-draft that he was just a physical genetic freak that is as explosive as he is at that size and still be able to stay healthy.


lilfishi22 wrote:I don't know if I was convinced Zion was just a genetic freak that could truly carry 280lbs through an NBA season while staying relatively injury free


Clear contradiction here. Definitely evidence for the Ayton-mod conspiracy theory.

Light the torch!

Sorry I'm slightly drunk today...
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#708 » by Crives » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:49 am

bwgood77 wrote:Pelicans could still be interesting, even without Zion. They will have to play really small, but they should still have a pretty good rim protector in Favors and a ton of depth at guard.

They can go:

Ball/Nickeil Alexander Walker/Frank Jackson
Holiday/Josh Hart
Redick/E'twaun Moore
Ingram/Kenrich Williams
Favors/Okafor/Jaxson Hayes

They are obviously weak up front without Zion...but Okafor has improved (I think). They will just have to go small, but have nice depth there to keep a pretty good 3 guard lineup on the floor.

Obviously with the west as tough as it is, they will be hard pressed to win, like all teams, but depending on how well Ingram plays, I think they could still be pretty tough.

Toronto will probably kill them tomorrow, but I think that is more because I am really high on Toronto, and they are still stacked and two deep everywhere with extremely tough D.


I like Hayes and NAW as prospects... but they are still rookies... that is probably one of the worst bench’s in the league.

Jrue will have to guard 3s in the starting lineup... which will really limit his strength in certain matchups where his defense is needed on a guard.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#709 » by Crives » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:56 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:Zion is so unique with his size and strength, but the amount of strain his muscles put on his joints is significant.

Derek Rose is a good comp for the intensity they play at, but Zion is so much stronger.

I hope Zion has a long career, but sometimes the guys with these unique bodies have trouble staying healthy.

This is where I like Ayton. Ayton is BIG and Athletic but he is build to last.
Ayton never plays hard enough to get hurt :) I kid i kid

The menicus is concerning for Zion. It's basically the cushion in the knee and judging from the quick timeline to return it's probably a trim job where they remove a piece of it. Definitely some long term concern with his legs holding up to all the weight. Hell probably have to cut weight down a little at some point.

Now on the optimistic side lots of guys have had menicus injuries and played a long time.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


But really... we don’t appreciate Aytons health enough.. look at Bagley/JJJ/WCJ/Bamba last year. Look at Zion this year..
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#710 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:47 am

MathiasPW wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I really thought pre-draft that he was just a physical genetic freak that is as explosive as he is at that size and still be able to stay healthy.


lilfishi22 wrote:I don't know if I was convinced Zion was just a genetic freak that could truly carry 280lbs through an NBA season while staying relatively injury free


Clear contradiction here. Definitely evidence for the Ayton-mod conspiracy theory.

Light the torch!

Sorry I'm slightly drunk today...

I really thought but wasn't convinced. Hard to put thoughts into words sometimes :lol:
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#711 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:48 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:A lot of extensions done today... Buddy Hield $94M, Domantas Sabonis $77M, Jaylen Brown $115M and Tauren Prince $29M for just two years.

I think Jaylen is overpaid, but he is a young two-way player that can play perfectly two positions, he could start on any team in the league so that contract is gonna have neutral value at worst.


Dejounte Murray got a pretty reasonable deal at 4/$64

Great deal. He got life-changing money without having to gamble it coming off a major injury.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#712 » by Mr Puddles » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:18 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:A lot of extensions done today... Buddy Hield $94M, Domantas Sabonis $77M, Jaylen Brown $115M and Tauren Prince $29M for just two years.

I think Jaylen is overpaid, but he is a young two-way player that can play perfectly two positions, he could start on any team in the league so that contract is gonna have neutral value at worst.


Dejounte Murray got a pretty reasonable deal at 4/$64

Great deal. He got life-changing money without having to gamble it coming off a major injury.


I do find it interesting that the Spurs are being widely praised for signing Murray to a 4 year, 16 mil annually, deal - and the Suns' move for Rubio, 3 years at 17 mil annually, was mostly labeled as a headscratcher. I get Murray is seen as a guy that will improve over time, but his best season so far he averages 8.8 point, 2.9 assists on 26% 3point shooting(48% ts overall), and he is coming off a major injury.

Meanwhile the Suns were desperate (under statement) for a point guard in a pretty thin PG free agency class, and snagged up Rubio for essentially the same money as Murray and just a smidge above Corey Joseph (probably the only other realistic option for Phoenix).

I can't help but think that the Spurs' reputation as a well run organization and the reputation the Suns have developed over the years as a hot mess plays quite a bit into these assessments.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#713 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:23 am

Mr Puddles wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Dejounte Murray got a pretty reasonable deal at 4/$64

Great deal. He got life-changing money without having to gamble it coming off a major injury.


I do find it interesting that the Spurs are being widely praised for signing Murray to a 4 year, 16 mil annually, deal - and the Suns' move for Rubio, 3 years at 17 mil annually, was mostly labeled as a headscratcher. I get Murray is seen as a guy that will improve over time, but his best season so far he averages 8.8 point, 2.9 assists on 26% 3point shooting(48% ts overall), and he is coming off a major injury.

Meanwhile the Suns were desperate (under statement) for a point guard in a pretty thin PG free agency class, and snagged up Rubio for essentially the same money as Murray and just a smidge above Corey Joseph (probably the only other realistic option for Phoenix)

It's the Suns. We can do no right and the Spurs can do no wrong

It's the benefit of the doubt they've earned after 2 decades of great front office management (minus the whole handling of Kawhi)
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#714 » by GoodBehavior » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:07 pm

Mr Puddles wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Dejounte Murray got a pretty reasonable deal at 4/$64

Great deal. He got life-changing money without having to gamble it coming off a major injury.


I do find it interesting that the Spurs are being widely praised for signing Murray to a 4 year, 16 mil annually, deal - and the Suns' move for Rubio, 3 years at 17 mil annually, was mostly labeled as a headscratcher. I get Murray is seen as a guy that will improve over time, but his best season so far he averages 8.8 point, 2.9 assists on 26% 3point shooting(48% ts overall), and he is coming off a major injury.

Meanwhile the Suns were desperate (under statement) for a point guard in a pretty thin PG free agency class, and snagged up Rubio for essentially the same money as Murray and just a smidge above Corey Joseph (probably the only other realistic option for Phoenix).

I can't help but think that the Spurs' reputation as a well run organization and the reputation the Suns have developed over the years as a hot mess plays quite a bit into these assessments.


I am a huge Rubio fan. But even I think his contract is a little excessive, and that's probably because you have to build in a premium given the Suns' unsavory reputation. Corey Joseph, who is a fine player, also got paid much higher than market because the Kings are not a FA destination, same as the Suns. How Rubio plays with Booker is an unsolved mystery to all Suns fan. So I think the criticism is fair.

Murray's contract is a good gamble for the Spurs. Murray prior to being hurt was going to be a perennial NBA all-defensive 1st or 2nd team. Because of his speed, height, and wingspan, he can guard three positions and legitimately shut players down at all three positions. He guarded Harden extremely well, for example. His offense game is not too shabby either: Tony Parker-like offense game (and weakness). That's a really, really good player. The injury will robbed him of his athletic abilities but he looked (athletically at least) good in the preseason.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#715 » by bwgood77 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:12 pm

Crives wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Pelicans could still be interesting, even without Zion. They will have to play really small, but they should still have a pretty good rim protector in Favors and a ton of depth at guard.

They can go:

Ball/Nickeil Alexander Walker/Frank Jackson
Holiday/Josh Hart
Redick/E'twaun Moore
Ingram/Kenrich Williams
Favors/Okafor/Jaxson Hayes

They are obviously weak up front without Zion...but Okafor has improved (I think). They will just have to go small, but have nice depth there to keep a pretty good 3 guard lineup on the floor.

Obviously with the west as tough as it is, they will be hard pressed to win, like all teams, but depending on how well Ingram plays, I think they could still be pretty tough.

Toronto will probably kill them tomorrow, but I think that is more because I am really high on Toronto, and they are still stacked and two deep everywhere with extremely tough D.


I like Hayes and NAW as prospects... but they are still rookies... that is probably one of the worst bench’s in the league.

Jrue will have to guard 3s in the starting lineup... which will really limit his strength in certain matchups where his defense is needed on a guard.


You put Jrue and Ball on the best two defenders 1-3 and Redick on the other one. NAW is already pretty good. He can come in and shoot. Hart is a good sixth man type. Moore is a pretty good vet...good shooter..shot over 43% from 3 last year. Williams and Jackson 2nd year players but are decent.

Bench isn't great but has some shooters and starting lineup as nice D. I think we are better when they don't have Zion unless our shots are not falling.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#716 » by bwgood77 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:18 pm

Mr Puddles wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Dejounte Murray got a pretty reasonable deal at 4/$64

Great deal. He got life-changing money without having to gamble it coming off a major injury.


I do find it interesting that the Spurs are being widely praised for signing Murray to a 4 year, 16 mil annually, deal - and the Suns' move for Rubio, 3 years at 17 mil annually, was mostly labeled as a headscratcher. I get Murray is seen as a guy that will improve over time, but his best season so far he averages 8.8 point, 2.9 assists on 26% 3point shooting(48% ts overall), and he is coming off a major injury.

Meanwhile the Suns were desperate (under statement) for a point guard in a pretty thin PG free agency class, and snagged up Rubio for essentially the same money as Murray and just a smidge above Corey Joseph (probably the only other realistic option for Phoenix).

I can't help but think that the Spurs' reputation as a well run organization and the reputation the Suns have developed over the years as a hot mess plays quite a bit into these assessments.


Funny thing is when I posted that I thought of Rubio and thought my post my spur a response (no pun really intended there). Rubio is better than Murray, but Murray is an up n comer...and you kind of have to pay those guys to keep them...and they typically get overpaid. Murray has some of the same weaknesses and is coming off of injury so it will be interesting to see how he plays.

The main problem I think many had with the Rubio signing was his fit with Booker. I think many feel with Booker you need someone who can shoot and play off ball. To maximize Booker you might need the ball in his hands. While I do think he should play more off ball, I think he inevitably will play on ball often and if Rubio is in the corner, Booker will face the same problems as before and get doubled. But it remains to be seen how well they fit together.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 2 more days til season opener! 

Post#717 » by Crives » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:30 pm

Last empty gym video, let the season begin!

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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#718 » by GoodBehavior » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:54 pm

MathiasPW wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I really thought pre-draft that he was just a physical genetic freak that is as explosive as he is at that size and still be able to stay healthy.


lilfishi22 wrote:I don't know if I was convinced Zion was just a genetic freak that could truly carry 280lbs through an NBA season while staying relatively injury free


Clear contradiction here. Definitely evidence for the Ayton-mod conspiracy theory.

Light the torch!

Sorry I'm slightly drunk today...


Whatever man. I never called it a conspiracy. I named the culprits and their actions. Their postings are in the public domain, and anyone can judge whether they agree with what I wrote or not. It's not that hard. You have been on this forum awhile. Don't tell me that this forum doesn't degrade into a cesspool of toxicity when certain topics are bought up, and don't tell me that those two played no part in it.

I question why I even bother to respond on this forum. I know I am surrounded, I regret my own stupidity :banghead: . I should just go quietly into the night.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: Just one more week til season opener OMG!! 

Post#719 » by JDLAW » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:42 pm

I agree with your overall theme. It is one of the reasons I don't participate much anymore.


GoodBehavior wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
bwoolf2 wrote:
well the suns have played with a skeleton crew due to poor drafts and management for years so cant give the mavs a pass there


True, but some were high on Oubre last year, particularly after the all star break, and Ayton also had Booker, Tyler Johnson, and Bridges after the break. Doncic was more or less playing the Booker role with rookie Jalen Brunson, Dorian Finney-Smith, Dwight Powell and Kleber. Kleber and Brunson are both decent but maybe not the best 2nd and 3rd best players. If thsoe were there best players Ayton was playing with he may have done worse than Doncic.


Bwgood, I think I have had enough of your duplicity. I think it is about time, someone stood up to you and lilfishi22. I was hoping someone would call you and him out already. That hasn't happened: maybe people are intimidated by your and lilfishi22's Moderator Status. Let me assure you that your standing on this forum means nothing to me. I cannot no longer stand by while the two of you continue unchecked and sit on your ivory tower, smug and unscathed. What needs to be said, have to be said:

a. Moderators are largely responsible for the irrational DA-bashing

When I say moderators, I am mostly referring to you (Bwgood) and lilfishi22 (not guys like Qwigglez). You both have an unhealthy obsession with the 2018 draft. Everyone knows your preference. Last season's toxic environment was because of the debate on who should have been picked in 2018. If you go back and read the discussion, lilifishi22 is right in the middle of it all (one of the chief instigator) and while you were not as overt as him, you were constantly stoking the fire: criticizing literally everything the 20 year old damn ROOKIE did while apologetically forgiving (or ignoring) the shortcomings of other draftees.

The DA-bashing got so bad, that it was finally reigned in, partly by you ... except, you and him start deploying passive-aggressive tactics. These tactics have the same results, and we're back to square one of bashing DA again, except you and him are smart to not mention the other draftee's name, and keep subtly undermining DA ad nauseam.

b. But the Passive-Aggressive nonsense is fooling no one. The Duplicity is insulting

I have more respect for guys like Frank Lee, who are obvious and upfront. You can hate his opinion but you have to at least respect the matter he goes about it. What you and lilfishi22 do is disturbing. You and him pretend to be "objective", "rational", "unbiased", "I only want whats best for the team" and deploy questionable tactics. You and him criticize DA, 9 out of 10 posts, but you make sure to have one "positive" thing to say about him, in 1 of the 10 post, to give people the fake appearance: "see how objective I am. I mention this one positive. I am definitely not bashing him." The two of you are fooling nobody.

It gets worse. Lilifishi22 had a positive comment on the Cam Johnson, but threw in a dig at DA. He commented on a completely unremarkable stats: Cam got to the line 4 times (who cares?) in four games and then make sure you know that DA had zero. The subterfuge is strong.

I have glanced at most of your and his' Mavericks-related postings. You both are unequivocally Maverick-apologists. To deny otherwise is foolish, people have a right to question your objectivity and your allegiance. If you and him can't divorce yourself from what occurred during the 2018 draft and still lived in some strange past hoping to be proven correct on your 2018 draft insights, you and him should not have the right to moderate a SUNS FORUM.

There have been a number of positive DA's post or posting that defends the kid. On the majority of them, YOU are the one that constant nitpick on something to undermine the underling positive messages. This week's postings are a perfect example. Of course, you have to say something positive in 1 out of the 10 posts to keep up that "unbiased" mirage. The worse part is when you act "surprised" that people are bashing the kid, all the while you nip in the bud anything that is positive about him. That is duplicity. So let not pretend to be "surprised" that people are bashing him, when the top moderator (the most influential poster, I might add) is constantly bringing him down.

c. You and lilfishi22 are the worst fans I have seen in my 37 years. Any modicum of success this team has, I hope you enjoy none of it. It would be an injustice to all the long suffering Suns fans for the both of you to enjoy any of this team success

Because of your tenure and the relationships you forged over the years, a number of people will come to your defense. Please spare me the "he means well" or "you're wrong, he's a good dude. you're overreacting." Also please spar me the mental gymnastic of justifying or rationalizing your and his past behaviors. I am pretty sure if you look hard enough, you can try to convince people that I am wrong and that you were badly misinterpreted. I don't care.

Nor do I want to engage in a dialogue with either of you on this matter, because I am convinced neither of you are going to see the light and admit to your transgressions. This post is for people who are so fed up with your and his toxic antic but were afraid to voice it. I have never come across such vitriolic and deceitful behaviors. I stand by my comment that you and him are godawful and terrible Suns fans and while I hope you both lead meaningful lives outside the game of NBA, I don't think it's right for you to enjoy any of this team success. It would be plain wrong.
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Re: 2019 season speculation: 3 more days til season opener! 

Post#720 » by Frank Lee » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:52 pm

GoodBehavior wrote:
MathiasPW wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I really thought pre-draft that he was just a physical genetic freak that is as explosive as he is at that size and still be able to stay healthy.


lilfishi22 wrote:I don't know if I was convinced Zion was just a genetic freak that could truly carry 280lbs through an NBA season while staying relatively injury free


Clear contradiction here. Definitely evidence for the Ayton-mod conspiracy theory.

Light the torch!

Sorry I'm slightly drunk today...


Whatever man. I never called it a conspiracy. I named the culprits and their actions. Their postings are in the public domain, and anyone can judge whether they agree with what I wrote or not. It's not that hard. You have been on this forum awhile. Don't tell me that this forum doesn't degrade into a cesspool of toxicity when certain topics are bought up, and don't tell me that those two played no part in it.

I question why I even bother to respond on this forum. I know I am surrounded, I regret my own stupidity :banghead: . I should just go quietly into the night.


What
We going to get ‘time off from GoodBehavior’ ?

Every Ying needs a Yang

Stick around to serve up some crow.... it could be tasty and nobody will push away their plate
What ? Me Worry ?

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