Officiating

[Kerrsed]

Officiating really needs to change. Its been horrible for years, but really eye-opening this season. Booker probably averages a good 5+ no calls a game where there is a clear foul. Same game they will call touch ticky-tack fouls against us....so long as they happen to "Star" players, yet our own star doesnt get this preferential treatment. Too many times the refs take the game into their own hands and somehow what is a foul on one side of the court is completely ignored on the other. Last nights game against the Lakers really highlighted this.

Read on Twitter

RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE REF! Ref even looks at him as its happening. NOPE! No call, no nothing.

Read on Twitter

We used our one Coaches Challenge on that play, so the refs watched the monitors, saw all the angles and reviewed it, yet they still called it an offensive foul WHEN ITS CLEAR AS DAY THAT HE WAS NOT SET AND WAS STILL MOVING HIS FEET!!

Read on Twitter

Oubre makes a play on the ball, but slightly hits Lebrons nose. Lebron falls and stays on the ground like he is injured to get the refs to review the play. The review shows a play was made on the ball to block it, there was no wind up, and the contact occurred because Oubre was coming down as Lebron was still going up. FLAGRANT! Whens the last time you have seen them call a flagrant on a made basket? Never happens, let alone after reviewing it. Lebron then bricks the first FT and out of anger proceeds to kick the ball to the other end of the court.....yet no tech for that when NBA rules clearly state that it is against the rules to punch or kick the ball out of frustration or anger. Booker then complains about it right away to the ref standing next to him to no avail. A few plays later something similar happens with McGee smacking Oubre in the head and him hitting the ground hard, but because Oubre popped right back up and didnt use his Hollywood acting skills the refs didnt even bother to look at it.

I could go on and on and on with just last nights game, but finding the footage to support my points is difficult as it doesnt make the "Highlight" videos everyone posts.

Seriously something needs to be done, the League needs to start holding these refs accountable for their mistakes. Give them 1, maybe 2 f**k-ups a game, but any more than that and they are fined or have to miss their next scheduled game and replaced by a different ref. After having multiple games going over the allotted amount of mistakes, send them back to ref school or something. Its getting REAL bad out there, and the bias-ness of teams that are getting the preferential treatment are plain as day.

This was just a few days ago:

Read on Twitter

And yes it was reviewed and still upheld as a foul after the review.

I have always been one to bite my tongue when it comes to bad calls and no calls, as they tend to go both ways....but its getting harder and harder to do so when its multiple times every game and the fairness of the calls start to heavily lean just one way.

Thoughts?

[BobbieL]

Officiating really needs to change. Its been horrible for years, but really eye-opening this season. Booker probably averages a good 5+ no calls a game where there is a clear foul. Same game they will call touch ticky-tack fouls against us....so long as they happen to "Star" players, yet our own star doesnt get this preferential treatment. Too many times the refs take the game into their own hands and somehow what is a foul on one side of the court is completely ignored on the other. Last nights game against the Lakers really highlighted this.

Read on Twitter

RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE REF! Ref even looks at him as its happening. NOPE! No call, no nothing.

Read on Twitter

We used our one Coaches Challenge on that play, so the refs watched the monitors, saw all the angles and reviewed it, yet they still called it an offensive foul WHEN ITS CLEAR AS DAY THAT HE WAS NOT SET AND WAS STILL MOVING HIS FEET!!

Read on Twitter

Oubre makes a play on the ball, but slightly hits Lebrons nose. Lebron falls and stays on the ground like he is injured to get the refs to review the play. The review shows a play was made on the ball to block it, there was no wind up, and the contact occurred because Oubre was coming down as Lebron was still going up. FLAGRANT! Whens the last time you have seen them call a flagrant on a made basket? Never happens, let alone after reviewing it. Lebron then bricks the first FT and out of anger proceeds to kick the ball to the other end of the court.....yet no tech for that when NBA rules clearly state that it is against the rules to punch or kick the ball out of frustration or anger. Booker then complains about it right away to the ref standing next to him to no avail. A few plays later something similar happens with McGee smacking Oubre in the head and him hitting the ground hard, but because Oubre popped right back up and didnt use his Hollywood acting skills the refs didnt even bother to look at it.

I could go on and on and on with just last nights game, but finding the footage to support my points is difficult as it doesnt make the "Highlight" videos everyone posts.

Seriously something needs to be done, the League needs to start holding these refs accountable for their mistakes. Give them 1, maybe 2 f**k-ups a game, but any more than that and they are fined or have to miss their next scheduled game and replaced by a different ref. After having multiple games going over the allotted amount of mistakes, send them back to ref school or something. Its getting REAL bad out there, and the bias-ness of teams that are getting the preferential treatment are plain as day.

This was just a few days ago:

Read on Twitter

And yes it was reviewed and still upheld as a foul after the review.

I have always been one to bite my tongue when it comes to bad calls and no calls, as they tend to go both ways....but its getting harder and harder to do so when its multiple times every game and the fairness of the calls start to heavily lean just one way.

Thoughts?

It is getting worse. MLB is worse. NFL is horrible. Not sure if the training isn't there or replay makes everything noticeable . But those two calls you outline - Ayton and Tyler. The defender was nowhere close to being set. On the Tyler play - he was hit in the act of shooting

I still have zero idea why the refs think players need to "earn it." Either its a foul, travel or whatever , or it isn't.

I still think Harden gets way too many foul calls. The refs bail him out.

[Crives]

We almost have a neutral point differential.. I think we get at least +4 to +6 pt increase if this team was in LA

[MathiasPW]

I was reading on studies trying to prove the NBA is rigged, and they are all pretty weak. Some betting sites have more hard data on specific refs biases, but not on the overall trends.

Five Thirty Eight did a study to check which team had been wronged the most last season (the Nets), but even that is based on partial data (Last 2 Minute Report on close games, only):

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/which-nba-team-is-wronged-by-the-refs-the-most/

In that case, the Suns would not show up because, well, we were getting blown out all the time, so don't have that many games that enter the dataset.

The NBA Referees actually had a valid reply to this, which can be read here: https://medium.com/@OfficialNBARefs/fake-news-from-fivethirtyeight-5b1f33e06cf0

Even so, the fact they are not looking at the whole picture doesn't get us enough evidence. There is a bunch of examples of really bad calls affecting really important results all over the place, but no structural stats that show the whole thing is a scam.

Which I don't doubt for a minute.

[ATTL]

There's almost no point to being a fan if your te isnt being propped up by the league. Its incredibly obvious that certain players and teams are officiated differently and get special treatment.

Until this is fixed it's the pirates life for me, i won't pay for anything NBA related. No tickets, no league pass, no NBA licensed clothing.

[lilfishi22]

I was reading on studies trying to prove the NBA is rigged, and they are all pretty weak. Some betting sites have more hard data on specific refs biases, but not on the overall trends.

Five Thirty Eight did a study to check which team had been wronged the most last season (the Nets), but even that is based on partial data (Last 2 Minute Report on close games, only):

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/which-nba-team-is-wronged-by-the-refs-the-most/

In that case, the Suns would not show up because, well, we were getting blown out all the time, so don't have that many games that enter the dataset.

The NBA Referees actually had a valid reply to this, which can be read here: https://medium.com/@OfficialNBARefs/fake-news-from-fivethirtyeight-5b1f33e06cf0

Even so, the fact they are not looking at the whole picture doesn't get us enough evidence. There is a bunch of examples of really bad calls affecting really important results all over the place, but no structural stats that show the whole thing is a scam.

Which I don't doubt for a minute.

Mathias bringing the studies instead of subjective eye tests.

I don't doubt that reffing had been bad and gotten worse but it's such a cop out and such an easy thing to say that refs are doing us in particular wrong. Unless you've watched enough games of other teams to see how they are being officiated, it's damn hard to say with any certainty that refs are targeting us

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I was reading on studies trying to prove the NBA is rigged, and they are all pretty weak. Some betting sites have more hard data on specific refs biases, but not on the overall trends.

Five Thirty Eight did a study to check which team had been wronged the most last season (the Nets), but even that is based on partial data (Last 2 Minute Report on close games, only):

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/which-nba-team-is-wronged-by-the-refs-the-most/

In that case, the Suns would not show up because, well, we were getting blown out all the time, so don't have that many games that enter the dataset.

The NBA Referees actually had a valid reply to this, which can be read here: https://medium.com/@OfficialNBARefs/fake-news-from-fivethirtyeight-5b1f33e06cf0

Even so, the fact they are not looking at the whole picture doesn't get us enough evidence. There is a bunch of examples of really bad calls affecting really important results all over the place, but no structural stats that show the whole thing is a scam.

Which I don't doubt for a minute.

Mathias bringing the studies instead of subjective eye tests.

I don't doubt that reffing had been bad and gotten worse but it's such a cop out and such an easy thing to say that refs are doing us in particular wrong. Unless you've watched enough games of other teams to see how they are being officiated, it's damn hard to say with any certainty that refs are targeting us

I don't know if it's that refs are "targeting" us. It's hard to figure out what particular explanation best fits the evidence.

I remember in last night's game thread someone saying that they don't recall the Lakers ever getting jobbed by the refs. With that in mind, one might be tempted to say that the refs demonstrate a bias towards the big market teams. But that does not explain why, for instance, the Spurs were given such a big advantage over us in 2005, or why the Heat received such obvious preference over the Mavs in 2006.

There are instances of repeated and sheer blindness, which I find hard to explain at times, but I think are probably best explained by human error. As a statistical matter, you would expect to see error clusters. I think that's part of it.

Another piece of this is, I think refs get a collective defensive mindset the way that police do. Refs make mistakes with how they officiate certain players - and particularly star players - and other refs in order to maintain the appearance of consistency, repeat the same mistakes ad nauseum. This has the effect of compounding certain mistakes, and forming a pattern. Certain players get the same ref benefits over and over, and others don't, over and over. Stars become well known, and refs don't want to undermine their appeal. Reputations form. Refs become stubborn and entrenched. Veterans and more athletic players acquire reputations and are allowed to play with greater physicality. So stars, vets and athletes tend to get better treatment than younger and less athletic players.

BUT THE BIGGEST ISSUE I think is not player reputations, but team reputations. And these become very hard to change. Teams that have a reputation for playing physical defense, for being hard-nosed and tough, are allowed to play with greater physicality. Teams that have the reputation of playing a softer brand of basketball aren't allowed to play with the same physicality. The real problem with this is when the team with a soft reputation isn't permitted to match the physicality of the team that has a physical reputation over the course of a playoff series - like us against the Spurs in the 2005 WCF.

And I think it's almost indisputable that the franchise with the softest reputation as a historical matter is the Suns. So I don't think it's implausible, based on this idea, that we would be hurt by the refs more often than others. Whereas teams like the Spurs would have a built-in advantage - at least, until their reputation changes.

For me, the biggest problem I have is the silence the league requires of all players, coaches, telecasters and media. It compounds the unfairness of the refereeing with a feeling of powerlessness and injustice on the part of fans - or at least, that's how I feel. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE SAID ABOUT IT. I'm not sure it ever will, considering the loudest voices are those of the fans of the big market teams, who rarely or never appear to suffer the disadvantage.

It's bullsh*t.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Whilst I do believe there's monetary factors at play( As with any large business entity) Wherein the referees do cater to the larger markets, As their success is vital to the NBA's revenue and TV viewer ratings. Meaning that the bigger markets success in turn of course makes larger profits for the NBA. Bigger populations, Larger fanbase, etc. Simply equates to more ticket and merchandise sales, TV revenue, and larger TV deals. Therein lies the interests and origins of potential biases towards the big market teams. It's just good business to keep larger fanbases happy so that the money continues to roll on in.

Having said that, I will agree to a point that our franchise likely isn't being directly targeted( the majority of the time).But that it's more of a big market versus small market dilemma. The bigger markets need to be successful in order to keep the money coming in, And we just don't carry the same scale of fan interest and/or don't entertain well enough or are competitive enough to warrant equal treatment.

The best and most reasonable way to overcome any issues that we've been having with refs, calls, defense or otherwise is again to fix our core roster issues by adding (* even at a steep price if necessary) strong defenders that are well known as tough, physical defenders. And again, carry that reputation accordingly.

Players such as: Patrick Beverley, Thaddeus Young, Jerami Grant, Patrick Patterson, Justice Winslow, etc. Will help us play better defensively and also likely get the benefit of the tough calls due to the refs being accustomed to that style of play from those players. Ultimately, No matter how bad it gets, Or how poorly the refs may officiate the game( veiled intent or not) it's up to us in the end to fix our own weaknesses and improve. We need to get a lot tougher, both mentally and physically. And we need to go hard for the full 48.

We just can't continue to play passively and try to come from behind repeatedly. We need to ESTABLISH ourselves on the court. And play with grit, intensity and determination. You'd think that after a decade of missing the playoffs and being completely irrelevant, That intensity and desire wouldn't be an issue. But apparently, we're a long ways away still. So trade the players that won't put forth consistent effort and fight the whole 48. And bring in players that will compete and give everything that they have for the game.

[grumpysaddle]

I have a feeling that even if the Suns had a roster with proven defensive minded players, they'd no longer get away with what they did on other teams. That's how strong a bias the franchise has of being a bad defensive team.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I have a feeling that even if the Suns had a roster with proven defensive minded players, they'd no longer get away with what they did on other teams. That's how strong a bias the franchise has of being a bad defensive team.

This. I think Rubio's frustration is one indication of how even established defensive veterans get treated differently once they're on this squad. If Bradley were on our team, there's no way he would have gotten away with handchecking our point guards the length of the court. He'd have been called for a foul on the first play of the game, and after a couple games, he'd stop trying.

[suns12345]

It’s always tricky complaining about officiating against your team. It’s been frustrating this year, and sometimes it seems we get the worst of it but I can never bring myself to complain.

One thing that is clear to me though is that the way the NBA has directed refs to officiate is a disgrace. Constant off the ball fouls, rewarding flopping, whistles for minimal contact. It makes the game so slow, kills the flow and removes some of the physicality. I have no idea why they want this to happen and I’ve really noticed it this year. Lots of sports around the globe seem to be going this way, whether it be because of technology implementation or just because they want to avoid any physical contact (for those that like rugby, read up about the refereeing at the rugby World Cup last year - farcical). Anyway, they get away with it because their brand is so big, but the NBA isn’t going in the right direction with its refereeing for sure.

[garrick]

Monty needs to pick up a few techs and a fine to highlight the unfair officiating so far against the Suns, seriously we have a few less of those bogus calls early on in the season we probably would have 3-4 more wins by now.

[grumpysaddle]

It’s always tricky complaining about officiating against your team. It’s been frustrating this year, and sometimes it seems we get the worst of it but I can never bring myself to complain.

One thing that is clear to me though is that the way the NBA has directed refs to officiate is a disgrace. Constant off the ball fouls, rewarding flopping, whistles for minimal contact. It makes the game so slow, kills the flow and removes some of the physicality. I have no idea why they want this to happen and I’ve really noticed it this year. Lots of sports around the globe seem to be going this way, whether it be because of technology implementation or just because they want to avoid any physical contact (for those that like rugby, read up about the refereeing at the rugby World Cup last year - farcical). Anyway, they get away with it because their brand is so big, but the NBA isn’t going in the right direction with its refereeing for sure.

And what teams benefit from the ticky tack fouls? I watch the Suns the most because they're my team for better or worse, but those calls are so subjective and rarely happen in the Suns favor. Calls on one end are different than the other. It's happened on the very next play that the foul they called for the other team they swallow their whistles for the very next possession. Officiating can set an early tone and throw a team out of rhythm which seems to happen a lot. If the game plan is to play physical defense and Baynes, Ayton, and Oubre all pick up quick whistles it throws the entire plan off. It's just harder to watch this season because the Suns actually have the talent to compete every night. The past 5 or 10 seasons it wasn't likely they'd win regardless.

[sunskerr]

I really think refs are basically out to protect their own, and that they've come down hard on us with a vengeance after the Donaghy and Nunez reffing in the 2007 Suns-Spurs series suddenly made headlines again in the earlier part of this season. It really feels different this year.

[TheLogician]

Robo-refs or GTFO. Impartiality does not mean equal FTAs. It means calling fouls when they are committed. Tired of the no-calls and double-standard almost every night. We've gotten reffed at home and on the road so it's particularly frustrating.

[Qwigglez]

Nothing we can do unfortunately. Does anyone remember last decade the 3 by Oubre in the game against the Blazers where he hit it and fell to the ground with no call. And then Lillard gets an And-1 with Carter touching his jersey?

I do feel like at least the last three games Booker has been getting away with a couple of ticky-tack calls where defenders barely touch him. In the rule book it’s a foul. But usually it seems to be the result of a missed no call on a previous possession.

I know it happens to other teams as well, but it’s just so blatantly obvious going against premier teams like the Lakers.

[charley barkles]

And let’s not forget when Oubre stole the ball and got on a fast break and a lakers player (kuzma, If I recall), tried to intentionally foul him to stop the fast break right in front of the ref and nothing was called! Lol. I think Kuzma even got mad about it

[hollywood6964]

Nothing we can do unfortunately. Does anyone remember last decade the 3 by Oubre in the game against the Blazers where he hit it and fell to the ground with no call. And then Lillard gets an And-1 with Carter touching his jersey?

I do feel like at least the last three games Booker has been getting away with a couple of ticky-tack calls where defenders barely touch him. In the rule book it’s a foul. But usually it seems to be the result of a missed no call on a previous possession.

I know it happens to other teams as well, but it’s just so blatantly obvious going against premier teams like the Lakers.

Of course, we're not the only ones. But the racket that is the nba and their officiating gets magnified when you have the magnificent Los Angeles Lakers, WITH THE mega star Player Lebron James and another superstar in Anthony Davis WITH title aspirations.......You are never going to get a fair shake from the league. And we shall see that in the playoffs, if and when the time comes.

We also must have had a dousy of an officating crew, and I'm sure their numbers bear it out if I cared enough to hunt it down and check.

[Frank Lee]

Don't the refs get 'graded' each game ?

Perhaps its time to do some public grading. We know who is who on every crew. We have video from practically every play. The only constraint is time to amass the data AND the validation (proof). I am assuming this is sort of what the league does. These refs are not mystery men. Given the effort, there could be a data base created with the 'correct', the 'incorrrect', and the 'No' call statistics of each and every ref/crew.

otherwise, it just become a white noise whine from the fan base.

[charley barkles]

Don't the refs get 'graded' each game ?

Perhaps its time to do some public grading. We know who is who on every crew. We have video from practically every play. The only constraint is time to amass the data AND the validation (proof). I am assuming this is sort of what the league does. These refs are not mystery men. Given the effort, there could be a data base created with the 'correct', the 'incorrrect', and the 'No' call statistics of each and every ref/crew.

otherwise, it just become a white noise whine from the fan base.

Like a PFF but for officials? I don’t have the time or desire, but that sounds like a great idea and I’m sure it’d take off