Game 38: Orlando Magic (18-20) @ Phoenix Suns (14-23)

[BobbieL]

The Suns are still trying to figure out how to win and close games. So even though on paper - they should have probably beat the Magic by more and of course, beat Sacramento - there will be tough games

I won't be surprised if they go on the road and beat a good team just because they are clicking

But I think

Baynes to the bench, Ayton starting

Bridges and Oubre starting

Saric off the bench with Okobo Cam and Aaron

See what happens with that

[Barkley6]

Read on Twitter

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OMG I love Eddie so much.

[Barkley6]

This coaching staff better wake up and play to the strength of this team.... scoring points. Open it up and run. We are never going to be a real good defensive team. We can focus on a few key stops but otherwise we are prone to giving the opposition open shots. The key is run it back SSOL style. Book on the run is formidable. Spastic Oubre has no fear. Bridges and his ganglies are best at the rim. Cam will camp and launch. Rubio can dish it all out. Would much rather him pass than shoot. let Ayton clean up what he can. **** if he just focused on that he might amount to something. They are easier buckets for him. Get in the open court and Run GDit. Who ever gets gassed sits down. Just score more. Tired of seeing these slugs in their half court halfassed harlem globetrotter hot potato weave. I wouldn't unhappy if book got 25 shots a night. The dude is running hot. Ready to go Jimmy Butler-light on the locker room. The MuthaBooka is so tired of losing. I as well.

I usually disagree with you on almost everything, but I totally agree here. They have the pieces to make this work, and we have some decent defensive pieces too that the SSOL teams lacked. One thing I really dislike about this offense is when I see guys running to their 'spots' and then just stand there for ten seconds waiting to catch and shoot. We play so much two man game in this offense that the other 3 defenders basically get 24 seconds to rest. Open it up! Let them run! Aside from our PFs, we have CRAZY athletic dudes on this team, and we are wasting that athleticism because we try to finesse and out clever defenses rather than just attack them.

Something I've been saying for a while now is that we are a BELOW the rim team. No one is a consistent above the rim threat, and it hurts us night in and night out as guys go up soft soft soft and get blocked or miss what should just be an Fing dunk. Saric, Baynes, Ayton, Kaminsky, all these guys are just soft at the rim. Get me a big who can, and will jump up and throw something down with some authority. Oubre and Mikal are the only ones who ever do this, and its MAYBE once a game.

[Kuwolves12]

“Waaahhhh no more Booker iso waaahhhhh”

Let that man shoot the damn ball

LOL

you must be kidding Bw if you think Booker is an ISO player. I thought you knew a little about basketball, not just some little kiddie homer like Blonde.

Hahaha!!!!

[LesGrossman]

Some may not like to hear it but Booker is the greatest weakness on D himself. He should stfu, he kept screaming at different team mates in those last two games in public. I mean Rubio could do that each and every game because he is head and shoulders above everyone on this team IQ wise, but he knows that there is a place and time for criticism and its not on the court.

I think noone has a problem with Booker taking all the shots. People have a problem with him dominating the ball, dribbling the air out of it and taking hard contested low percentage poor shots. Dunno why the difference is so hard to comprehend.

On the positive side i felt very good about the development of Ayton. He really played hard on D even thougzh he often seems lost. He challenged everything within his reach, something i havent seen from Booker at all.

Again, most of what is being criticised is on the coaches. Ayton doesnt dribble? Guess what, he does what he as told to. Rubio takes bad shots? GUess why. Saric keeps chucking 3's despite a seemingly months long slump? You think that is his wish? The team doesnt run despite being young and fast enough? You believe they intentionally run an old man's offense and speed?

[WeekapaugGroove]

Some may not like to hear it but Booker is the greatest weakness on D himself. He should stfu, he kept screaming at different team mates in those last two games in public. I mean Rubio could do that each and every game because he is head and shoulders above everyone on this team IQ wise, but he knows that there is a place and time for criticism and its not on the court.

I think noone has a problem with Booker taking all the shots. People have a problem with him dominating the ball, dribbling the air out of it and taking hard contested low percentage poor shots. Dunno why the difference is so hard to comprehend.

On the positive side i felt very good about the development of Ayton. He really played hard on D even thougzh he often seems lost. He challenged everything within his reach, something i havent seen from Booker at all.

Again, most of what is being criticised is on the coaches. Ayton doesnt dribble? Guess what, he does what he as told to. Rubio takes bad shots? GUess why. Saric keeps chucking 3's despite a seemingly months long slump? You think that is his wish? The team doesnt run despite being young and fast enough? You believe they intentionally run an old man's offense and speed?

Agree that's Bookers d is mostly trash with flashes of effort that needs to be more sustained. Also agree Aytons d has been encouraging.

Don't agree with a few others:
Ayton has never put the ball on the floor and driven, didn't do it in college and something he needs to develop.

NBA teams aren't dumb, they are helping off Rubio and daring him to shoot. He's needs to hit open shots period.

Saric is a stretch 4 and needs to shoot 3s, he also just needs to make them.

Totally agree they should play faster.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[LesGrossman]

Some may not like to hear it but Booker is the greatest weakness on D himself. He should stfu, he kept screaming at different team mates in those last two games in public. I mean Rubio could do that each and every game because he is head and shoulders above everyone on this team IQ wise, but he knows that there is a place and time for criticism and its not on the court.

I think noone has a problem with Booker taking all the shots. People have a problem with him dominating the ball, dribbling the air out of it and taking hard contested low percentage poor shots. Dunno why the difference is so hard to comprehend.

On the positive side i felt very good about the development of Ayton. He really played hard on D even thougzh he often seems lost. He challenged everything within his reach, something i havent seen from Booker at all.

Again, most of what is being criticised is on the coaches. Ayton doesnt dribble? Guess what, he does what he as told to. Rubio takes bad shots? GUess why. Saric keeps chucking 3's despite a seemingly months long slump? You think that is his wish? The team doesnt run despite being young and fast enough? You believe they intentionally run an old man's offense and speed?

Agree that's Bookers d is mostly trash with flashes of effort that needs to be more sustained. Also agree Aytons d has been encouraging.

Don't agree with a few others:
Ayton has never put the ball on the floor and driven, didn't do it in college and something he needs to develop.

NBA teams aren't dumb, they are helping off Rubio and daring him to shoot. He's needs to hit open shots period.

Saric is a stretch 4 and needs to shoot 3s, he also just needs to make them.

Totally agree they should play faster.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I didnt watch much last year, but after looking at some of Aytons' highlights he at least seems to have some postup game and isnt limited to Andre Jordan like putback role.

As for Rubio, the key is that teams can only help off him if he is being played off the ball, which by itself is a bad idea that i criticised repeatedly (either the dysfunctional "motion" offense or iso Book). Its simple - give him the ball and let him create, then he will draw 2 defenders or more. Place him in the corner as spot up shooter - teams will help off him and he will punish them some days, other days he'll continue to miss. Its the coaches' job to use the players according to their skills.

[Revived]

Rubio himself had some pretty bad turnovers in the 4th qtr in the loss against the Kings.

Yesterday he was taking some terrible looking jumpers at the end of the game instead of going more to Oubre or Booker. He shot 2-9 overall. Lately, including last night he’s had problems staying in front his man defensively in one on one situations as well which is weird since he’s a good defender usually.

Even though he was playing fantastic earlier, his play lately isn’t above criticism either.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

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That caught me off guard too. That was hilarious.

[LesGrossman]

Rubio himself had some pretty bad turnovers in the 4th qtr in the loss against the Kings.

Yesterday he was taking some terrible looking jumpers at the end of the game instead of going more to Oubre or Booker. He shot 2-9 overall. Lately, including last night he’s had problems staying in front his man defensively in one on one situations as well which is weird since he’s a good defender usually.

Even though he was playing fantastic earlier, his play lately isn’t above criticism either.

There is not a single player on this team who doesnt deserve criticism. The greater the role, the greater the disappointment and the more responsible the player is for the poor performance. So of course, its mainly Booker, Rubio, Oubre and Baynes alongside with the coach we have to look at. Ayton on the other hand is a puppy and the expectations expressed in this group are massively exaggerated. He still can develop 300% compared to today.

But regardless of that, the court is not the place to demonstratively point at others for not being where they are supposed to, not defending according to the plan. That is just PR work at the expense of your team mates and very poor leadership.

[bwgood77]

5-0 when I bring my girlfriend along to the game.

Fairly frustrating game offensively. A ton of turnovers and Ayton couldn't hit a thing. This was actually my first time seeing him okay live and damn he is infuriating. So lackadaisical and low energy it's not even funny. I could see it on TV but it's even worse in person. I so want him to be good but he's just so effing passive out there.

On a brighter note, Mikal played AMAZING defense. I don't check stats during the game to just get a feel of it as everything is happening, and Mikal just felt like our most iimportant guy out there. Not surprised to see him as a +17 on the box score.

Kelly's crazy volleyball spike of a block was SOOOO much more amazing in person than on the highlights. That was so insane. I wish we could fuse him and Ayton together. That player would be crazy good.

Booker and Baynes got really mad at each other in the fourth quarter and it was kind of sad to see. I think Booker wanted him to do something specific so he could get his own shot off but Baynes wouldn't screen or something and Booker turned it over. He was HEATED at Baynes who in turn yelled back and then booker pouted all the way to the bench and I don't really remember them talking after that. I hope Baynes isn't getting fed up with Booker.

All in all, it was nice to win but it sure felt frustrating during the game. Rubio took some dumb shots and seem to purposefully not pass Booker the ball sometimes which made him mad. I was impressed with Booker's steal at the end and his defense on Vucivic, but we have a lot to clean up. If Ayton would just play with some heart and intensity this team would be so good. But I have a feeling we'll be saying that for a while...

Yeah, watching Mikal's impact on defense is huge. He's one guy the box will never do justice, and with everyone so focused only on the offense of our players, his play goes overlooked, but make no mistake, with so many weak defensive players he is really important. It showed in the #s too when Hardwood Paroxysm posted the on/off #s of each player with Book. That alone shows he should start along with Rubio, Book and Ayton (all strong on/off with Book individually). I'm kind of glad Baynes will talk back...I hope players feel they can all communicate back and forth, and it isn't always just one way.

[bwgood77]

This coaching staff better wake up and play to the strength of this team.... scoring points. Open it up and run. We are never going to be a real good defensive team. We can focus on a few key stops but otherwise we are prone to giving the opposition open shots. The key is run it back SSOL style. Book on the run is formidable. Spastic Oubre has no fear. Bridges and his ganglies are best at the rim. Cam will camp and launch. Rubio can dish it all out. Would much rather him pass than shoot. let Ayton clean up what he can. **** if he just focused on that he might amount to something. They are easier buckets for him. Get in the open court and Run GDit. Who ever gets gassed sits down. Just score more. Tired of seeing these slugs in their half court halfassed harlem globetrotter hot potato weave. I wouldn't unhappy if book got 25 shots a night. The dude is running hot. Ready to go Jimmy Butler-light on the locker room. The MuthaBooka is so tired of losing. I as well.

I agree they should run. We have a fast team, outside of maybe our PFs and Baynes.

[BobbieL]

5-0 when I bring my girlfriend along to the game.

Fairly frustrating game offensively. A ton of turnovers and Ayton couldn't hit a thing. This was actually my first time seeing him okay live and damn he is infuriating. So lackadaisical and low energy it's not even funny. I could see it on TV but it's even worse in person. I so want him to be good but he's just so effing passive out there.

On a brighter note, Mikal played AMAZING defense. I don't check stats during the game to just get a feel of it as everything is happening, and Mikal just felt like our most iimportant guy out there. Not surprised to see him as a +17 on the box score.

Kelly's crazy volleyball spike of a block was SOOOO much more amazing in person than on the highlights. That was so insane. I wish we could fuse him and Ayton together. That player would be crazy good.

Booker and Baynes got really mad at each other in the fourth quarter and it was kind of sad to see. I think Booker wanted him to do something specific so he could get his own shot off but Baynes wouldn't screen or something and Booker turned it over. He was HEATED at Baynes who in turn yelled back and then booker pouted all the way to the bench and I don't really remember them talking after that. I hope Baynes isn't getting fed up with Booker.

All in all, it was nice to win but it sure felt frustrating during the game. Rubio took some dumb shots and seem to purposefully not pass Booker the ball sometimes which made him mad. I was impressed with Booker's steal at the end and his defense on Vucivic, but we have a lot to clean up. If Ayton would just play with some heart and intensity this team would be so good. But I have a feeling we'll be saying that for a while...

Yeah, watching Mikal's impact on defense is huge. He's one guy the box will never do justice, and with everyone so focused only on the offense of our players, his play goes overlooked, but make no mistake, with so many weak defensive players he is really important. It showed in the #s too when Hardwood Paroxysm posted the on/off #s of each player with Book. That alone shows he should start along with Rubio, Book and Ayton (all strong on/off with Book individually). I'm kind of glad Baynes will talk back...I hope players feel they can all communicate back and forth, and it isn't always just one way.

I don't have a problem if Booker and Baynes are communicating, talking, yelling, cursing each other out on the court. The cursing/yelling needs to be less than communicating - but in the heat of the game, it happens.

I agree about Bridges - he needs to start along with Rubio, Book and Ayton.

I hope Monty realizes this. SAric off the bench with Ayton, Cam and Okobo. To me , thats the 9 man rotation these days. Or the hope I should say.

[bwgood77]

We needed to win and we got the win. Yeah, it was ugly but we got it and that was much needed.

Ayton coming of the bench and paying a meh game....not sure how I feel about it. It is gonna be interesting to watch him in the next few games, he needs to outplay Baynes to get that starting job again.

Ayton needs to focus more his game in rebounding, defense, screens and blocks. On those things he can be really good (he is already great at rebounding) but I just can't see him as a scorer on offense. He is not a shot creator.

Booker with a good defensive game and a couple of BIG BALLS THREES. That was beautiful to watch.

I agree to an extent, but Ayton was still extremely efficient last season and in most games this season. I just still think he's getting used to playing with the team. I mentioned I'd probably start Baynes for a few games when Ayton came back, but I wouldn't have started Ayton twice, then them together 3 times, then start Baynes. Too much changing the starting lineup.

As I mentioned before, Ayton would be much better if the floor was spread. With it clogged inside, it will be harder to be effective, but he should put it on the floor on occasion, particularly when he is not hitting those short to midrange jumpers like last night.

[bwgood77]

Some may not like to hear it but Booker is the greatest weakness on D himself. He should stfu, he kept screaming at different team mates in those last two games in public. I mean Rubio could do that each and every game because he is head and shoulders above everyone on this team IQ wise, but he knows that there is a place and time for criticism and its not on the court.

I think noone has a problem with Booker taking all the shots. People have a problem with him dominating the ball, dribbling the air out of it and taking hard contested low percentage poor shots. Dunno why the difference is so hard to comprehend.

On the positive side i felt very good about the development of Ayton. He really played hard on D even thougzh he often seems lost. He challenged everything within his reach, something i havent seen from Booker at all.

Again, most of what is being criticised is on the coaches. Ayton doesnt dribble? Guess what, he does what he as told to. Rubio takes bad shots? GUess why. Saric keeps chucking 3's despite a seemingly months long slump? You think that is his wish? The team doesnt run despite being young and fast enough? You believe they intentionally run an old man's offense and speed?

I totally agree with most all of this, though I also think Monty has told Ayton he needs to dunk it more...I think Ayton has even mentioned it, and while he had some nice alley oops or finished on bounce passes, he could put it on the floor some. I know many coaches won't want bigs to put it on the floor much, especially young ones, because it can lead to turnovers or allow teams to come in and double team, but he can do it on occasion.

[Scutt]

We needed to win and we got the win. Yeah, it was ugly but we got it and that was much needed.

Ayton coming of the bench and paying a meh game....not sure how I feel about it. It is gonna be interesting to watch him in the next few games, he needs to outplay Baynes to get that starting job again.

Ayton needs to focus more his game in rebounding, defense, screens and blocks. On those things he can be really good (he is already great at rebounding) but I just can't see him as a scorer on offense. He is not a shot creator.

Booker with a good defensive game and a couple of BIG BALLS THREES. That was beautiful to watch.

Ayton has been outplaying Baynes the whole time. He doesn't need to "earn" anything back, he should not have been benched in the first place.

So the #1 pick in the draft last year, who averaged 16 points a game with great efficiency, can't be a scorer on offense? We should relegate him to being a role player who just focuses on defense and rebounding? Maybe you should stop trying to project players roles based off of one game. Unreal.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Some may not like to hear it but Booker is the greatest weakness on D himself. He should stfu, he kept screaming at different team mates in those last two games in public. I mean Rubio could do that each and every game because he is head and shoulders above everyone on this team IQ wise, but he knows that there is a place and time for criticism and its not on the court.

I think noone has a problem with Booker taking all the shots. People have a problem with him dominating the ball, dribbling the air out of it and taking hard contested low percentage poor shots. Dunno why the difference is so hard to comprehend.

On the positive side i felt very good about the development of Ayton. He really played hard on D even thougzh he often seems lost. He challenged everything within his reach, something i havent seen from Booker at all.

Again, most of what is being criticised is on the coaches. Ayton doesnt dribble? Guess what, he does what he as told to. Rubio takes bad shots? GUess why. Saric keeps chucking 3's despite a seemingly months long slump? You think that is his wish? The team doesnt run despite being young and fast enough? You believe they intentionally run an old man's offense and speed?

Agree that's Bookers d is mostly trash with flashes of effort that needs to be more sustained. Also agree Aytons d has been encouraging.

Don't agree with a few others:
Ayton has never put the ball on the floor and driven, didn't do it in college and something he needs to develop.

NBA teams aren't dumb, they are helping off Rubio and daring him to shoot. He's needs to hit open shots period.

Saric is a stretch 4 and needs to shoot 3s, he also just needs to make them.

Totally agree they should play faster.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I didnt watch much last year, but after looking at some of Aytons' highlights he at least seems to have some postup game and isnt limited to Andre Jordan like putback role.

As for Rubio, the key is that teams can only help off him if he is being played off the ball, which by itself is a bad idea that i criticised repeatedly (either the dysfunctional "motion" offense or iso Book). Its simple - give him the ball and let him create, then he will draw 2 defenders or more. Place him in the corner as spot up shooter - teams will help off him and he will punish them some days, other days he'll continue to miss. Its the coaches' job to use the players according to their skills.

Sure he has some post game and if he busts his ass down the court and gets position they should feed him.

What I was referring to was a dribble drive game from mid-range. It's just something he's never done much of at any level. If he could develop a pump fake and drive game it would be huge for his offensive development and get him to the line more. That along with shooting 3s should be the top two things he tries to develop.

No agrument from me on not playing Rubio off the ball. He's awful in that role and has been his whole career. It's why I really really want them to stagger him and booker more.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[WeekapaugGroove]

If Ayton plays 30+ mins and Baynes in the teens I really don't give a **** who they start.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[SuperSunsFan]

Rubio hasn't been the same since he slipped on the water spot and injured his hip in the lakers game. Should have rested him to allow the injury to heal completely instead of rushing him back and risking having the injury lingering through the rest of season since we lost both of the following games anyway.

[LesGrossman]

Agree that's Bookers d is mostly trash with flashes of effort that needs to be more sustained. Also agree Aytons d has been encouraging.

Don't agree with a few others:
Ayton has never put the ball on the floor and driven, didn't do it in college and something he needs to develop.

NBA teams aren't dumb, they are helping off Rubio and daring him to shoot. He's needs to hit open shots period.

Saric is a stretch 4 and needs to shoot 3s, he also just needs to make them.

Totally agree they should play faster.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I didnt watch much last year, but after looking at some of Aytons' highlights he at least seems to have some postup game and isnt limited to Andre Jordan like putback role.

As for Rubio, the key is that teams can only help off him if he is being played off the ball, which by itself is a bad idea that i criticised repeatedly (either the dysfunctional "motion" offense or iso Book). Its simple - give him the ball and let him create, then he will draw 2 defenders or more. Place him in the corner as spot up shooter - teams will help off him and he will punish them some days, other days he'll continue to miss. Its the coaches' job to use the players according to their skills.

Sure he has some post game and if he busts his ass down the court and gets position they should feed him.

What I was referring to was a dribble drive game from mid-range. It's just something he's never done much of at any level. If he could develop a pump fake and drive game it would be huge for his offensive development and get him to the line more. That along with shooting 3s should be the top two things he tries to develop.

No agrument from me on not playing Rubio off the ball. He's awful in that role and has been his whole career. It's why I really really want them to stagger him and booker more.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Why stagger them? To watch more point booker experiments? I think the offense looked the best when both were on the court, Ricky created for everyone and Booker ran off screens to get open. Of course Booker will get the majority of the attempts and that should be fine with everyone. Why Monty keeps going away from it i dont know, maybe Booker is asking for even more touches, but we see long stretches where Rubio brings the ball up the court, hands over to a big, and goes to the corner to never touch it again, except for a last second desperation heave after booker or oubre dribbled the air out of it for 14 seconds. Its bad for the chemistry, its bad for the rest of the team because iso book will only make book happy, and most importantly, it has shown very poor results but for some weird reason we keep seeing it over and over again.