2019 season speculation including trade ideas: two weeks away from the deadline

[nevetsov]

This is certainly the season for parity across the NBA - games appear to be closer, and there isn't a superteam with 4 legitimate all stars with a target on their back. I can't even think of a team with three legitimate (healthy) all star calibre players? Most only have 2.

While Love wouldn't necessarily be our #2, he would probably provide enough in tandem with Ayton's steady rise to propel us into the strata of decent teams sooner than if we wait for Ayton to develop on his own.

[lilfishi22]

We wouldn't even be considering Love if Saric could hit a damn 3 when it mattered.

To all those saying to park the cap space and use it wisely/ ensure we scout our free agents properly this time..

1) didn't we fire our entire scouting department

2) even if we didn't, what faith can we have that this will be the year they finally scout for a balanced, rounded roster, and

3) even if all that happens, what's to say the FAs we want will want to come here?

It's one of those "easier said than done" things.

Sounds great in theory and it's logical AF but few teams do that and we surely don't have much of a history of this.

[Frank Lee]

Bird in the hand

[bwgood77]

So love is 31.5 years old. We traded for Sir Charles when he was 29.5.

But then again, Googs was also that age when we picked him up, so...

And we had 3 good years with Charles. To the age of 32.5.

[Kerrsed]

Here's whats funny. In Love's last year of his contract he is the 24th highest paid player in the NBA. That doesn't include players who are going to be paid more than him in the next three off seasons. He will probably be somewhere between the 40th-50th highest paid player and only be 34 years old.

I'd also like to point out that Love's contract dips back down to $28M his last year ($31M next season, $31M the season after, then $28M his last season on contract). There will easily be 40+ players making more than Love in his final season, as just like you state, 3 more FA seasons means 3 more years of player contracts going up and up and up.

[nevetsov]

So love is 31.5 years old. We traded for Sir Charles when he was 29.5.

But then again, Googs was also that age when we picked him up, so...

And we had 3 good years with Charles. To the age of 32.5.

Charles' frame was carrying a much heavier load though.

[bwgood77]

Im glad others are starting to open their eyes a bit more when it comes to Love and the upcoming FA.

Look, we get around 30 points a night from Booker. Ayton gives us another 15 to 20. Oubre gives us another 15-20. Besides those 3, we have no one to provide reliable points, and thats just around 70 points a night between those 3! PF is a major issue as we are lucky if we can get a 10 point game out of Saric. Cross Frank and Cam off the list because who knows whats wrong with them or when they will come back, or if they will even provide when they do come back, because honestly Frank has been looking like hot trash most nights. PG is the other issue. While Rubio is averaging 13 points a game, hes taken a major step back and dropped from 14 to 15 points a game with the occasional 20+ point game to averaging 10 points in the month of January. The back-up guards are all a crapshoot on any given night, but we are lucky if we can get 10 a night from our reserve guards combined.

Put that all together and thats right around 90+ points per game for our team. We need more scoring and more reliable scoring. Thats Love. He can get us 20 points a night EASY! He can hit the 3 that we seem to somehow have major issues with. With him being a threat from 3, it makes the defense spread more (Saric shoots 3's often because they leave him pretty open because he bricks them often, shooting 26% from 3 these last 10 games).

As for Loves history of injuries, as said before, they have for the most part been minuet and freak occurrences. We arnt talking ACL's or meniscus tears, we are talking a fractured hand, sprained ankle, concussions, stuff like that. Even if he does end up with a major injury and misses time, thats when the NBA steps in and grants the team a Disabled Player Exception. The maximum salary of the replacement player is either 50% of the injured player's salary, or the mid-level exception for a non-taxpaying team. Detroit just went through this with Griffin and the league gave them close to $10M to use on another player, which can be used to sign current FA's or to use via trade, which teams love because that gets them out of a contract without having to pay a guy this year as opposed to trading just for an expiring contract. The Pistons goT $9.8M to spend to replace Blake for the season! Thats more than our 2 PFs make this year COMBINED! If Love is with us and goes down longterm due to injury, fine, whatever we tried, Booker sees we tried (And probably won a few more games from when Love did play for us), and we just use the DPE to grab another PF for the rest of the season.

The funny thing is that peoples only complaint when it comes to Love is his contact. Its not about what he does on the court, because everyone can see that he can still ball and provide there. They are just worried about finances in FA and a few are worried about him getting injured and thinking we are then stuck somehow and screwed. We would be just fine.

I think he'd be a pretty good fit on the court, though preferably you'd want a strong defender guy who can switch and was quick at the 4. His 3 ball would be nice as well as the rebounding help, and a pretty good passer.

I don't know about just adding up players points they will score to assess who we can get. I think a lot more needs to be thought about than that, like defense. But you're right, if he mad $5 million a year, great, $10 million fine, heck $15 million might be ok. $30? Nah. We are locking ourselves at best in a Suns 2010-2012 scenario there.....

Our team will be set for 3+ years because no real moves could be made. Now I think there is a chance we could make the playoffs with Love, which might be kind of fun, so we'd possibly get into the playoffs once, maybe twice, but there would be no upside or advancing to the second round barring others players massively improving, but the thing is, as I mentioned in an earlier post, we would still lack depth and wouldn't be able to do much about it, and the top teams have great depth...even the mid tier and some of the teams battling for the playoffs have nice depth.

A team like us doesn't need a Love at PF. A guy like JJJ would gradually just work him over, on both sides, outside of rebounding.

But who knows? JJ obviously is buddies with Love so maybe he takes him on. We certainly shouldn't be giving up any picks though. We may be only 3 games back of the 8 seed, but we are also only 2.5 games ahead of the 13 seed.

I did really hope we could get Kevin Love. Like 5-6 years ago.

[Blonde]

So love is 31.5 years old. We traded for Sir Charles when he was 29.5.

But then again, Googs was also that age when we picked him up, so...

And we had 3 good years with Charles. To the age of 32.5.

Charles' frame was carrying a much heavier load though.

Charles wasn’t injury prone.

[bwgood77]

Here's whats funny. In Love's last year of his contract he is the 24th highest paid player in the NBA. That doesn't include players who are going to be paid more than him in the next three off seasons. He will probably be somewhere between the 40th-50th highest paid player and only be 34 years old.

That is pretty unbelievable he is that high at this point. Damn. At the end of his contract? He is not even close to an all star but in 3 years he will be making all star money? Not good.

[TeamTragic]

Here's whats funny. In Love's last year of his contract he is the 24th highest paid player in the NBA. That doesn't include players who are going to be paid more than him in the next three off seasons. He will probably be somewhere between the 40th-50th highest paid player and only be 34 years old.

That is pretty unbelievable he is that high at this point. Damn. At the end of his contract? He is not even close to an all star but in 3 years he will be making all star money? Not good.

Unless James Jones pulls off a miracle Love will be the best we can do at the moment.

[bwgood77]

Here's whats funny. In Love's last year of his contract he is the 24th highest paid player in the NBA. That doesn't include players who are going to be paid more than him in the next three off seasons. He will probably be somewhere between the 40th-50th highest paid player and only be 34 years old.

That is pretty unbelievable he is that high at this point. Damn. At the end of his contract? He is not even close to an all star but in 3 years he will be making all star money? Not good.

Unless James Jones pulls off a miracle Love would the best we can do at the moment.

If "best we can do" is "hope it works out and he stays healthy and doesn't start to decline since he is our highest paid player and we won't be able to make any other moves for 3 years throughout most of Book's contract" then fine.

We can roll the dice. It might be pretty fun to possibly make the 8 seed for a season or two, before we need to find another PF.

[lilfishi22]

What makes you think he's worth it? You think having a 3 pt shooting big who can rebound is worth a max? Because he's not helping us defensively. He won't be able to guard players in small ball lineups and won't be able to defend good big PFs very well either.

LeBron dragged that team to the finals his last year there simply because he's LeBron, but they had an awful defense.

Given his fit next to Ayton, Rubio and Booker, his ability to score from almost every part of the court and his leadership is something we could certainly use. Your point about defense is valid but I'm actually more hopeful about Ayton's defense than ever before. Throw in 3PT shooting which we're missing and you have a guy that can rebound and he's a great fit for us offensively.

I think you have to get away from the number a bit and just accept it's a big number. Whether he's on $20m, or $25m or $30m a year, it's kind of irrelevant because any of those numbers would likely take us out of the market for a big time FA anyway. Considering we haven't been a real big time FA destination for a long time, I'm not so sure cap space would serve us very well.

So if you're asking, does he bring $30m of individual production on his own? I don't think he does. But does he have the ability to bring $30m worth of overall positive impact on this team (better fit for Ayton, better team rebounding, more veteran leadership, stretches the floor for key playmakers, solid passing abilities, brings 16-20ppg on his own), I think entirely possible should he stay healthy.

And I don't think you can really compare Love now to when we traded for Shaq. Shaq was about to turn 36 when he landed and I think it was easy to see, given his size and recent play that a decline would be rapid. Oh and that good 29yo player we traded; we didn't trade him because we wanted Shaq, we traded him because he wanted out and we took a punt on Shaq. The players that is likely outgoing for a Love trade is probably not players that is/was that good anyway (Johnson, Saric? Oubre?)

I know Marion wanted a max, and perhaps was a little sensitive, but I don't think he wanted out. He had been here 10 years and had grown. The story was that Sarver just got giddy at the thought of Shaq. Anwyay, it doesn't matter now, and I don't know what we'd have to give up for Love, but given the age difference, if we had to give up a first, then it's like giving up an Obi Toppin or whatever for him in addition to expirings. I seriously doubt we would get him for just for Johnson and not much else. But yeah, if you're not convinced that having cap flexibility is important for the next 3 summers, and just want us to be a little better now when he's healthy, it's worth a shot, but if you look around the league, you don't see too many teams having built their team in this fashion. The best teams do it through the draft unless they are in LA. Sure, Boston signed Kemba and Hayward but had remained relevant while being good and getting high Nets picks.

It's neither here or there but I think we can both agree that it wasn't likely we would've resolved that Marion situation if Sarver wasn't going to max him out. Everything was pointing to an exit sign for Marion.

Who knows exactly what Cavs are gonna get for Love. I just know it's probably a little more than what I think but much less than what they expect. All the info out there is saying they are after a 1st round pick but not a single team has offered that up.

My goal in a Love trade is not to just get a little better and that's it but to get better in the short/medium term and for our young guys learn to win by having the necessary pieces to help them win. The problem with looking around the league and seeing how the best teams are built is that we're just not good at building through the draft. We've whiffed on so many important picks that we're at the stage where we just need to maximise what we have and see/hope that Booker and Ayton become a legit two man duo.

Boston drafted well and has a very high level coach players want to play for. Golden State drafted super well and were very smart with cap space/signing. Denver drafted really well to add depth each year and has a high level coach. Milwaukee lucked out on a generational talent in Giannis and made shrew moves to build along side Giannis. Toronto likewise drafted very well and won it all by bringing in that final piece.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Loves contract is awful no doubt but he is a significant upgrade and this team needs to win, you absolutely do not give any assets in taking that contract back but it's only a burden for 2 years then you could actually use it as a trade chip in the final year and at the point you might be ready to really compete. I only do it if it's one of several moves to improve the team both short and long term tho. I think a move for Love and Baynes to Utah for Butler and Mudiay makes this team better this year and gives you a couple of potential pieces for the future in Butler and Mudiay.

I would like to see Baynes moved for a guard that can contribute next year.

Tyler Frank and Okobo or Carter for Love

Baynes for a guard.... not sure the team. Clippers for Robinson - maybe the Jazz for Mudiay

If we trade Baynes to the Clippers for a guard, I'd much rather it be Mudiay than Robinson of the two man! As Robinson just has atrocious shooting numbers. And is honestly struggling pretty bad, Just to play at the nba level.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinje01.html .
33% FG/ 38% two FG/ 28% 3 PT %/ 58% Free throw%.

Now a few hypothetical trade options for backup point guard, power forward, and center that are also intriguing to me would be:

Indiana-
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7278124 Phoenix can add a ** (future protected 2nd if necessary).

Chicago-
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7278130

Orlando-
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7278128

Brooklyn-
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7278115

Utah-
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7278117 .

***Phoenix/ Clippers/ Boston-
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7278139

Just a few examples of options available to us that could upgrade our bench, Whilst also addressing particular roster issues too.

[lilfishi22]

That is pretty unbelievable he is that high at this point. Damn. At the end of his contract? He is not even close to an all star but in 3 years he will be making all star money? Not good.

Unless James Jones pulls off a miracle Love would the best we can do at the moment.

If "best we can do" is "hope it works out and he stays healthy and doesn't start to decline since he is our highest paid player and we won't be able to make any other moves for 3 years throughout most of Book's contract" then fine.

We can roll the dice. It might be pretty fun to possibly make the 8 seed for a season or two, before we need to find another PF.

But what's the alternative? Keep limping along with all this cap space that gets us nothing in the end?

Give me playoffs and give Booker some playoff experience. The longer we just trod along not making the playoffs, the sooner Booker will want out. If the guy wants out, I'd rather we had given him and this team the best possible chance at making some noise in the playoffs.

[bwgood77]

Given his fit next to Ayton, Rubio and Booker, his ability to score from almost every part of the court and his leadership is something we could certainly use. Your point about defense is valid but I'm actually more hopeful about Ayton's defense than ever before. Throw in 3PT shooting which we're missing and you have a guy that can rebound and he's a great fit for us offensively.

I think you have to get away from the number a bit and just accept it's a big number. Whether he's on $20m, or $25m or $30m a year, it's kind of irrelevant because any of those numbers would likely take us out of the market for a big time FA anyway. Considering we haven't been a real big time FA destination for a long time, I'm not so sure cap space would serve us very well.

So if you're asking, does he bring $30m of individual production on his own? I don't think he does. But does he have the ability to bring $30m worth of overall positive impact on this team (better fit for Ayton, better team rebounding, more veteran leadership, stretches the floor for key playmakers, solid passing abilities, brings 16-20ppg on his own), I think entirely possible should he stay healthy.

And I don't think you can really compare Love now to when we traded for Shaq. Shaq was about to turn 36 when he landed and I think it was easy to see, given his size and recent play that a decline would be rapid. Oh and that good 29yo player we traded; we didn't trade him because we wanted Shaq, we traded him because he wanted out and we took a punt on Shaq. The players that is likely outgoing for a Love trade is probably not players that is/was that good anyway (Johnson, Saric? Oubre?)

I know Marion wanted a max, and perhaps was a little sensitive, but I don't think he wanted out. He had been here 10 years and had grown. The story was that Sarver just got giddy at the thought of Shaq. Anwyay, it doesn't matter now, and I don't know what we'd have to give up for Love, but given the age difference, if we had to give up a first, then it's like giving up an Obi Toppin or whatever for him in addition to expirings. I seriously doubt we would get him for just for Johnson and not much else. But yeah, if you're not convinced that having cap flexibility is important for the next 3 summers, and just want us to be a little better now when he's healthy, it's worth a shot, but if you look around the league, you don't see too many teams having built their team in this fashion. The best teams do it through the draft unless they are in LA. Sure, Boston signed Kemba and Hayward but had remained relevant while being good and getting high Nets picks.

It's neither here or there but I think we can both agree that it wasn't likely we would've resolved that Marion situation if Sarver wasn't going to max him out. Everything was pointing to an exit sign for Marion.

Who knows exactly what Cavs are gonna get for Love. I just know it's probably a little more than what I think but much less than what they expect. All the info out there is saying they are after a 1st round pick but not a single team has offered that up.

My goal in a Love trade is not to just get a little better and that's it but to get better in the short/medium term and for our young guys learn to win by having the necessary pieces to help them win. The problem with looking around the league and seeing how the best teams are built is that we're just not good at building through the draft. We've whiffed on so many important picks that we're at the stage where we just need to maximise what we have and see/hope that Booker and Ayton become a legit two man duo.

Boston drafted well and has a very high level coach players want to play for. Golden State drafted super well and were very smart with cap space/signing. Denver drafted really well to add depth each year and has a high level coach. Milwaukee lucked out on a generational talent in Giannis and made shrew moves to build along side Giannis. Toronto likewise drafted very well and won it all by bringing in that final piece.

Sure we didn't draft well, but we have a new regime. I wouldn't say they got off to a good start but hopefully they can improve. When you have been a bottom feeder, trading for an ex all star soon to be on the other side of 30 on a max contract is not a move you make if you want to build into a competitive playoff team. It's a move to be made to hope you can get to the playoffs. But we stall in getting any better or a future PF in the process unless we can still draft one and have him supplant Love in a year or two. But of course we won't be able to go after guys in FA really. We will be maxed out when Ayton and Bridges (if we keep them) get to their next contracts, especially if we keep Oubre too, so signing Love means that is our last move for a long time outside of draft picks and signing guys with exceptions.

[bwgood77]

Unless James Jones pulls off a miracle Love would the best we can do at the moment.

If "best we can do" is "hope it works out and he stays healthy and doesn't start to decline since he is our highest paid player and we won't be able to make any other moves for 3 years throughout most of Book's contract" then fine.

We can roll the dice. It might be pretty fun to possibly make the 8 seed for a season or two, before we need to find another PF.

But what's the alternative? Keep limping along with all this cap space that gets us nothing in the end?

Give me playoffs and give Booker some playoff experience. The longer we just trod along not making the playoffs, the sooner Booker will want out. If the guy wants out, I'd rather we had given him and this team the best possible chance at making some noise in the playoffs.

Oh, if I thought Love made us a shoe in for the playoffs for the next 3 years, I'd be ok with it. I think it just keeps us in the running.

I just don't know what people think makes him worth that much. A stretch 4 is good....but what we want is a stretch 4 who can also defend, switch, hopefully block shots, etc.

He's a good passer and a great rebounder but it's not like he shoots 45% from 3 or anything. He shoots 37%.

I think if we do trade for him, within a year, people will not be happy that we have his production at thaht price on our books. Not that I want Saric as our future PF, but for their careers, their stats are not much different outside of rebounding...



As far as Booker wanting out, I don't see it happening, though I think it's more likely near the end of this contract if we sign Love than if we are able to draft and make nice FA additions to give us more depth to compete the whole game, give him players that he knows are only going to continue getting better, etc.

If we get Love, who would expire right around the time Booker's contract is going to end, well, that's probably when he might want out unless we have built a really good team somehow around him outside of Love.

[Kerrsed]

A team like us doesn't need a Love at PF. A guy like JJJ would gradually just work him over, on both sides, outside of rebounding.

Well the Cavs just played the Grizzlies like a week back and....

JJJ: 10 points (4-11 shooting; 36%), 1 rebound, 1 steal.

Love: 19 points (5-12 shooting; 41%), 9 rebounds, 2 assists

Doesnt look like he worked him over at all. I'll even throw in Valanciunas stats in case of the Grizz running switches on offense:

Valanciunas: 8 points (4-11 shooting; 36%), 18 rebounds and 4 blocks.

Now when Cleveland played Memphis back in December (Which Cleveland won) things were a little more even, but still wasnt worked over.

JJJ: 24 points (9-19 shooting; 47%), 3 rebounds, 2 blocks.

Love: 21 points (6-11 shooting; 46%), 13 rebounds, 1 assist.

[charley barkles]

Unless James Jones pulls off a miracle Love would the best we can do at the moment.

If "best we can do" is "hope it works out and he stays healthy and doesn't start to decline since he is our highest paid player and we won't be able to make any other moves for 3 years throughout most of Book's contract" then fine.

We can roll the dice. It might be pretty fun to possibly make the 8 seed for a season or two, before we need to find another PF.

But what's the alternative? Keep limping along with all this cap space that gets us nothing in the end?

Give me playoffs and give Booker some playoff experience. The longer we just trod along not making the playoffs, the sooner Booker will want out. If the guy wants out, I'd rather we had given him and this team the best possible chance at making some noise in the playoffs.

Yes - if Book gets to the all-star game, and we slip in to the playoffs (even if we get swept by LA), this would be a massively huge win for the season, and for Booker. We’ve had a losing culture for 10 years (save for the one team that almost made it in Hornaceks first year). Culture is so hard to change. If those 2 things happen, it would be huge.

Dario 2 games ago was very good and a big reason we beat the Spurs. Imagine getting that consistently... I’m in on Love.

[charley barkles]

A team like us doesn't need a Love at PF. A guy like JJJ would gradually just work him over, on both sides, outside of rebounding.

Well the Cavs just played the Grizzlies like a week back and....

JJJ: 10 points (4-11 shooting; 36%), 1 rebound, 1 steal.

Love: 19 points (5-12 shooting; 41%), 9 rebounds, 2 assists

Doesnt look like he worked him over at all. I'll even throw in Valanciunas stats in case of the Grizz running switches on offense:

Valanciunas: 8 points (4-11 shooting; 36%), 18 rebounds and 4 blocks.

Now when Cleveland played Memphis back in December (Which Cleveland won) things were a little more even, but still wasnt worked over.

JJJ: 24 points (9-19 shooting; 47%), 3 rebounds, 2 blocks.

Love: 21 points (6-11 shooting; 46%), 13 rebounds, 1 assist.

It’s amazing how poor of a rebounder JJJ is.

[bwgood77]

A team like us doesn't need a Love at PF. A guy like JJJ would gradually just work him over, on both sides, outside of rebounding.

Well the Cavs just played the Grizzlies like a week back and....

JJJ: 10 points (4-11 shooting; 36%), 1 rebound, 1 steal.

Love: 19 points (5-12 shooting; 41%), 9 rebounds, 2 assists

Doesnt look like he worked him over at all. I'll even throw in Valanciunas stats in case of the Grizz running switches on offense:

Valanciunas: 8 points (4-11 shooting; 36%), 18 rebounds and 4 blocks.

Now when Cleveland played Memphis back in December (Which Cleveland won) things were a little more even, but still wasnt worked over.

JJJ: 24 points (9-19 shooting; 47%), 3 rebounds, 2 blocks.

Love: 21 points (6-11 shooting; 46%), 13 rebounds, 1 assist.

Well we all know JJJ isn't a rebounder. I'm just talking about him guarding him on 3s, and JJJ gaurding Love. Looks like the first game they both started 4-11 and Love made one more shot. But I'm talking about the future...not now, and Love trying to guard these people like JJJ, and JJJ will guard guys like him. Sure, Love will get the boards, and if you are hanging your hat and want to pay him that money for the boards, then he's your guy, at least for a year or two. His shooting should hold up longer, but it's not like it's phenomenal (though he did great from 3 tonight).