2019 season speculation including trade ideas: two weeks away from the deadline

[WeekapaugGroove]

I'm the Alonzo Mourning meme with a Love trade.

Not my favorite move and I get all the negatives but there are far more foolish moves they could make and he would bring some bbiq, passing, rebounding and shooting.

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[charley barkles]

If "best we can do" is "hope it works out and he stays healthy and doesn't start to decline since he is our highest paid player and we won't be able to make any other moves for 3 years throughout most of Book's contract" then fine.

We can roll the dice. It might be pretty fun to possibly make the 8 seed for a season or two, before we need to find another PF.

But what's the alternative? Keep limping along with all this cap space that gets us nothing in the end?

Give me playoffs and give Booker some playoff experience. The longer we just trod along not making the playoffs, the sooner Booker will want out. If the guy wants out, I'd rather we had given him and this team the best possible chance at making some noise in the playoffs.

Oh, if I thought Love made us a shoe in for the playoffs for the next 3 years, I'd be ok with it. I think it just keeps us in the running.

I just don't know what people think makes him worth that much. A stretch 4 is good....but what we want is a stretch 4 who can also defend, switch, hopefully block shots, etc.

He's a good passer and a great rebounder but it's not like he shoots 45% from 3 or anything. He shoots 37%.

I think if we do trade for him, within a year, people will not be happy that we have his production at thaht price on our books. Not that I want Saric as our future PF, but for their careers, their stats are not much different outside of rebounding...



As far as Booker wanting out, I don't see it happening, though I think it's more likely near the end of this contract if we sign Love than if we are able to draft and make nice FA additions to give us more depth to compete the whole game, give him players that he knows are only going to continue getting better, etc.

If we get Love, who would expire right around the time Booker's contract is going to end, well, that's probably when he might want out unless we have built a really good team somehow around him outside of Love.

That sounds like an all-star to me. Draymond Green?

[lilfishi22]

I know Marion wanted a max, and perhaps was a little sensitive, but I don't think he wanted out. He had been here 10 years and had grown. The story was that Sarver just got giddy at the thought of Shaq. Anwyay, it doesn't matter now, and I don't know what we'd have to give up for Love, but given the age difference, if we had to give up a first, then it's like giving up an Obi Toppin or whatever for him in addition to expirings. I seriously doubt we would get him for just for Johnson and not much else. But yeah, if you're not convinced that having cap flexibility is important for the next 3 summers, and just want us to be a little better now when he's healthy, it's worth a shot, but if you look around the league, you don't see too many teams having built their team in this fashion. The best teams do it through the draft unless they are in LA. Sure, Boston signed Kemba and Hayward but had remained relevant while being good and getting high Nets picks.

It's neither here or there but I think we can both agree that it wasn't likely we would've resolved that Marion situation if Sarver wasn't going to max him out. Everything was pointing to an exit sign for Marion.

Who knows exactly what Cavs are gonna get for Love. I just know it's probably a little more than what I think but much less than what they expect. All the info out there is saying they are after a 1st round pick but not a single team has offered that up.

My goal in a Love trade is not to just get a little better and that's it but to get better in the short/medium term and for our young guys learn to win by having the necessary pieces to help them win. The problem with looking around the league and seeing how the best teams are built is that we're just not good at building through the draft. We've whiffed on so many important picks that we're at the stage where we just need to maximise what we have and see/hope that Booker and Ayton become a legit two man duo.

Boston drafted well and has a very high level coach players want to play for. Golden State drafted super well and were very smart with cap space/signing. Denver drafted really well to add depth each year and has a high level coach. Milwaukee lucked out on a generational talent in Giannis and made shrew moves to build along side Giannis. Toronto likewise drafted very well and won it all by bringing in that final piece.

Sure we didn't draft well, but we have a new regime. I wouldn't say they got off to a good start but hopefully they can improve. When you have been a bottom feeder, trading for an ex all star soon to be on the other side of 30 on a max contract is not a move you make if you want to build into a competitive playoff team. It's a move to be made to hope you can get to the playoffs. But we stall in getting any better or a future PF in the process unless we can still draft one and have him supplant Love in a year or two. But of course we won't be able to go after guys in FA really. We will be maxed out when Ayton and Bridges (if we keep them) get to their next contracts, especially if we keep Oubre too, so signing Love means that is our last move for a long time outside of draft picks and signing guys with exceptions.

The principle is to build around what we have. On a good rebuild, you would have 2 maybe 3 years of bottom feeding and you should have the pieces required to start building off. We've been rebuilding for 4-5 years and it's clear this front office is looking at raising the floor with the moves we've made. We've raised that floor and the next step is to keep raising that floor. It is also my belief is that the ceiling is not defined by any free agent out there, our ceiling is defined by how good Booker and Ayton can become. The only way to see that is to keep raising that floor and allow Booker and Ayton to get experience in meaningful games in order to take it to hopefully take their game to another level. For most young players, chasing a spot in the playoffs is their first meaningful game on a rebuilding team. The next meaningful experience are games in mid-to-late April. The next meaningful experience are games in the 2nd round. I think Love can play a role in all of these steps. I don't think he's a factor past this point that but you have to take those steps in order to get to that next level.

Bringing in Love will essentially shut us out of big FA's and I'm OK with that because I don't think we're very attractive a destination anyway and if what you're saying about us needing to use our scouting department better to improve in drafting talent, adding Love doesn't take us away from that.

[bigfoot]

What are we doing this summer if we don't make a move before the trade deadline?

Let's assume we let Baynes, Saric, Kaminsky, Tyler Johnson, and Carter walk because they are FAs. Then we would have around $20M in cap to fill holes in free agency and our 1st round pick. We'd have no exceptions to use either. That means we need a lot of growth out of Ayton, Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jerome, and Okobo. I just don't see how our team gets better next year on $20M for free agency.

Well something better happen at the trade deadline or we are screwed.

[Kerrsed]

If "best we can do" is "hope it works out and he stays healthy and doesn't start to decline since he is our highest paid player and we won't be able to make any other moves for 3 years throughout most of Book's contract" then fine.

We can roll the dice. It might be pretty fun to possibly make the 8 seed for a season or two, before we need to find another PF.

But what's the alternative? Keep limping along with all this cap space that gets us nothing in the end?

Give me playoffs and give Booker some playoff experience. The longer we just trod along not making the playoffs, the sooner Booker will want out. If the guy wants out, I'd rather we had given him and this team the best possible chance at making some noise in the playoffs.

Oh, if I thought Love made us a shoe in for the playoffs for the next 3 years, I'd be ok with it. I think it just keeps us in the running.

I just don't know what people think makes him worth that much. A stretch 4 is good....but what we want is a stretch 4 who can also defend, switch, hopefully block shots, etc.

He's a good passer and a great rebounder but it's not like he shoots 45% from 3 or anything. He shoots 37%.

I think if we do trade for him, within a year, people will not be happy that we have his production at thaht price on our books. Not that I want Saric as our future PF, but for their careers, their stats are not much different outside of rebounding...



As far as Booker wanting out, I don't see it happening, though I think it's more likely near the end of this contract if we sign Love than if we are able to draft and make nice FA additions to give us more depth to compete the whole game, give him players that he knows are only going to continue getting better, etc.

If we get Love, who would expire right around the time Booker's contract is going to end, well, that's probably when he might want out unless we have built a really good team somehow around him outside of Love.

As a stretch 4 he still spreads the floor. His average shooting distance this season is 17 feet. He's hitting 61% from between 10-16 feet away and just over 50% from 16ft to the 3 point line. Pretty good percentages for being that far away from the hoop as a PF. Defenses got to respect him. Speaking of which, he doesnt have a Booker drawing double and triple teams on the Cav's. Bring him here and let him hit all those wide open shots that guys like Dario clank off the rim.

And just to compare Dario again, Saric's average shooting distance is 14 feet. That 10 to 16ft range he is hitting 52%. His best percentage is actually right at the rim (0 to 3ft) with 65% and 30% of his shots come from that 0 to 3ft range. Only 10% of his shots happen between 10ft and the 3 point line. So with Dario is usually either a 3 point shot or a at the rim attempt, with nothing inbetween. Loves game spreads him out much much more, with only 13% of his shot in that 0 to 3ft range.

But it is what it is. Everyone is going to have their own opinion on Love and if he is that much better than Saric at this point in his career. I for one think he is light years ahead of Saric and dont really see much growth in Saric over the course of this season (Or over any seasons since he came into the league).

[bwgood77]

It's neither here or there but I think we can both agree that it wasn't likely we would've resolved that Marion situation if Sarver wasn't going to max him out. Everything was pointing to an exit sign for Marion.

Who knows exactly what Cavs are gonna get for Love. I just know it's probably a little more than what I think but much less than what they expect. All the info out there is saying they are after a 1st round pick but not a single team has offered that up.

My goal in a Love trade is not to just get a little better and that's it but to get better in the short/medium term and for our young guys learn to win by having the necessary pieces to help them win. The problem with looking around the league and seeing how the best teams are built is that we're just not good at building through the draft. We've whiffed on so many important picks that we're at the stage where we just need to maximise what we have and see/hope that Booker and Ayton become a legit two man duo.

Boston drafted well and has a very high level coach players want to play for. Golden State drafted super well and were very smart with cap space/signing. Denver drafted really well to add depth each year and has a high level coach. Milwaukee lucked out on a generational talent in Giannis and made shrew moves to build along side Giannis. Toronto likewise drafted very well and won it all by bringing in that final piece.

Sure we didn't draft well, but we have a new regime. I wouldn't say they got off to a good start but hopefully they can improve. When you have been a bottom feeder, trading for an ex all star soon to be on the other side of 30 on a max contract is not a move you make if you want to build into a competitive playoff team. It's a move to be made to hope you can get to the playoffs. But we stall in getting any better or a future PF in the process unless we can still draft one and have him supplant Love in a year or two. But of course we won't be able to go after guys in FA really. We will be maxed out when Ayton and Bridges (if we keep them) get to their next contracts, especially if we keep Oubre too, so signing Love means that is our last move for a long time outside of draft picks and signing guys with exceptions.

The principle is to build around what we have. On a good rebuild, you would have 2 maybe 3 years of bottom feeding and you should have the pieces required to start building off. We've been rebuilding for 4-5 years and it's clear this front office is looking at raising the floor with the moves we've made. We've raised that floor and the next step is to keep raising that floor. It is also my belief is that the ceiling is not defined by any free agent out there, our ceiling is defined by how good Booker and Ayton can become. The only way to see that is to keep raising that floor and allow Booker and Ayton to get experience in meaningful games in order to take it to hopefully take their game to another level. For most young players, chasing a spot in the playoffs is their first meaningful game on a rebuilding team. The next meaningful experience are games in mid-to-late April. The next meaningful experience are games in the 2nd round. I think Love can play a role in all of these steps. I don't think he's a factor past this point that but you have to take those steps in order to get to that next level.

Bringing in Love will essentially shut us out of big FA's and I'm OK with that because I don't think we're very attractive a destination anyway and if what you're saying about us needing to use our scouting department better to improve in drafting talent, adding Love doesn't take us away from that.

I agree with what you say, but I don't see Love playing a part in getting us to the second round ever, if he can get us into the playoffs at all. You are right that this team will go as far as Booker and Ayton, and probably Bridges if he continues to become one of the premier wing defenders in the NBA, but I think we need flexibility to add multiple pieces around them instead of a guy on a max no team wants. If love had this year and next on his contract, it would be perfect, but those last two year are killers.

[Mjee]

TWolves just got boned tonight .....
if KAT is off limits still, we have to get Love

We really don’t have a choice.... nobody is coming here for free agency

He’s a huge upgrade and may be able to help us take the next leap !!

Time to make moves

[Blonde]

The Wolves just had perhaps the biggest meltdown of all time.

[Kerrsed]

Sure, Love will get the boards, and if you are hanging your hat and want to pay him that money for the boards, then he's your guy, at least for a year or two. His shooting should hold up longer, but it's not like it's phenomenal (though he did great from 3 tonight).

He shot 63% tonight and hit 6 from deep. Yeah, thats a good night. But once again he is just hitting his point average. Look at what we currently have. Dario has a random 20 point game and we are ecstatic! He hits 20 points once a month. Done it 3 times this season, Once in January, Once in December, and Once in November. But 20 points a game is just about the average for Love. He's hit over 20 points in 16 games this season.

Fun fact: When our starting PF (Saric) gets over 20 points a game, we win those game! All 3 games this season when he actually contributed on the offensive end like a starter should and scored 20 points, we have won every game.

Throw Love in and his 16 20 point games, and i can tell you that i believe we would have won a hell of a lot more games, and a lot of those 2-3 point losses would have been the other way around.

Huge difference between Saric and Love.

[Kerrsed]

Sure we didn't draft well, but we have a new regime. I wouldn't say they got off to a good start but hopefully they can improve. When you have been a bottom feeder, trading for an ex all star soon to be on the other side of 30 on a max contract is not a move you make if you want to build into a competitive playoff team. It's a move to be made to hope you can get to the playoffs. But we stall in getting any better or a future PF in the process unless we can still draft one and have him supplant Love in a year or two. But of course we won't be able to go after guys in FA really. We will be maxed out when Ayton and Bridges (if we keep them) get to their next contracts, especially if we keep Oubre too, so signing Love means that is our last move for a long time outside of draft picks and signing guys with exceptions.

The principle is to build around what we have. On a good rebuild, you would have 2 maybe 3 years of bottom feeding and you should have the pieces required to start building off. We've been rebuilding for 4-5 years and it's clear this front office is looking at raising the floor with the moves we've made. We've raised that floor and the next step is to keep raising that floor. It is also my belief is that the ceiling is not defined by any free agent out there, our ceiling is defined by how good Booker and Ayton can become. The only way to see that is to keep raising that floor and allow Booker and Ayton to get experience in meaningful games in order to take it to hopefully take their game to another level. For most young players, chasing a spot in the playoffs is their first meaningful game on a rebuilding team. The next meaningful experience are games in mid-to-late April. The next meaningful experience are games in the 2nd round. I think Love can play a role in all of these steps. I don't think he's a factor past this point that but you have to take those steps in order to get to that next level.

Bringing in Love will essentially shut us out of big FA's and I'm OK with that because I don't think we're very attractive a destination anyway and if what you're saying about us needing to use our scouting department better to improve in drafting talent, adding Love doesn't take us away from that.

I agree with what you say, but I don't see Love playing a part in getting us to the second round ever, if he can get us into the playoffs at all. You are right that this team will go as far as Booker and Ayton, and probably Bridges if he continues to become one of the premier wing defenders in the NBA, but I think we need flexibility to add multiple pieces around them instead of a guy on a max no team wants. If love had this year and next on his contract, it would be perfect, but those last two year are killers.

You have got to be kidding yourself if you think teams dont want Love. Plenty of teams would Love to get their hands on Love, but are already straddles with their own Large Contract players they have to contend with. Im sure Kerr in GS would love Love, but they have already EXCEEDED the cap with just 4 players! (Curry/Klay/DLO/Greene make a combined $119M and the cap is $109M). Im sure Dantoni would welcome Love into the Rockets but cant because Harden/Westbrook make a combined $80M and Capella/Gordon a combined $30M, once again exceeding the cap on 4 players. I could go on and on about playoff teams that could use and would want Love and how they cant afford him because they are already paying the tax on just 4 players.

Its not that nobody wants Love, its they dont have the means to obtain him, which we and a handful of others do.

[Blonde]

I’ve said it before but I don’t hate the idea of Love and think his game should age gracefully. He’d make us more watchable and a lot better when healthy. But man if it doesn’t feel like the most irresponsible decision a team in our position could make. The upside is 7/8 seed and downside is a broken player taking up a fourth of our cap for the next 3 years. I’d put the chances this trade happening at less than 5% anyway so I won’t worry about it further.

[lilfishi22]

If "best we can do" is "hope it works out and he stays healthy and doesn't start to decline since he is our highest paid player and we won't be able to make any other moves for 3 years throughout most of Book's contract" then fine.

We can roll the dice. It might be pretty fun to possibly make the 8 seed for a season or two, before we need to find another PF.

But what's the alternative? Keep limping along with all this cap space that gets us nothing in the end?

Give me playoffs and give Booker some playoff experience. The longer we just trod along not making the playoffs, the sooner Booker will want out. If the guy wants out, I'd rather we had given him and this team the best possible chance at making some noise in the playoffs.

Oh, if I thought Love made us a shoe in for the playoffs for the next 3 years, I'd be ok with it. I think it just keeps us in the running.

I just don't know what people think makes him worth that much. A stretch 4 is good....but what we want is a stretch 4 who can also defend, switch, hopefully block shots, etc.

He's a good passer and a great rebounder but it's not like he shoots 45% from 3 or anything. He shoots 37%.

I think if we do trade for him, within a year, people will not be happy that we have his production at thaht price on our books. Not that I want Saric as our future PF, but for their careers, their stats are not much different outside of rebounding...



As far as Booker wanting out, I don't see it happening, though I think it's more likely near the end of this contract if we sign Love than if we are able to draft and make nice FA additions to give us more depth to compete the whole game, give him players that he knows are only going to continue getting better, etc.

If we get Love, who would expire right around the time Booker's contract is going to end, well, that's probably when he might want out unless we have built a really good team somehow around him outside of Love.

We're not a shoe in but he sure gives us a better chance than expecting significant organic growth or incidental role player signings. I just think our goal is playoffs, for a team that's been away from that playoff picture for so long and our core guys not having experienced the post season, making the playoffs would be like when young players play for the Team USA. There's a level of learning, development, focus and change in mindset that you don't get from just regular season experience. I think Love is the most realistic acquisition that can significantly increase the probability of us being a playoff team during his contract.

[bwoolf2]

For those that are against trading for Love go to NBA.com and watch the highlights from tonights Cavs game and tell me he wouldn't make a huge difference, watching that was like watching a seasons worth of Saric highlights except Love provided them in a single game. I get the risk but it's worth it at this point we have a chance to make the playoffs and Booker is ready to lead this team there.

[lilfishi22]

Sure we didn't draft well, but we have a new regime. I wouldn't say they got off to a good start but hopefully they can improve. When you have been a bottom feeder, trading for an ex all star soon to be on the other side of 30 on a max contract is not a move you make if you want to build into a competitive playoff team. It's a move to be made to hope you can get to the playoffs. But we stall in getting any better or a future PF in the process unless we can still draft one and have him supplant Love in a year or two. But of course we won't be able to go after guys in FA really. We will be maxed out when Ayton and Bridges (if we keep them) get to their next contracts, especially if we keep Oubre too, so signing Love means that is our last move for a long time outside of draft picks and signing guys with exceptions.

The principle is to build around what we have. On a good rebuild, you would have 2 maybe 3 years of bottom feeding and you should have the pieces required to start building off. We've been rebuilding for 4-5 years and it's clear this front office is looking at raising the floor with the moves we've made. We've raised that floor and the next step is to keep raising that floor. It is also my belief is that the ceiling is not defined by any free agent out there, our ceiling is defined by how good Booker and Ayton can become. The only way to see that is to keep raising that floor and allow Booker and Ayton to get experience in meaningful games in order to take it to hopefully take their game to another level. For most young players, chasing a spot in the playoffs is their first meaningful game on a rebuilding team. The next meaningful experience are games in mid-to-late April. The next meaningful experience are games in the 2nd round. I think Love can play a role in all of these steps. I don't think he's a factor past this point that but you have to take those steps in order to get to that next level.

Bringing in Love will essentially shut us out of big FA's and I'm OK with that because I don't think we're very attractive a destination anyway and if what you're saying about us needing to use our scouting department better to improve in drafting talent, adding Love doesn't take us away from that.

I agree with what you say, but I don't see Love playing a part in getting us to the second round ever, if he can get us into the playoffs at all. You are right that this team will go as far as Booker and Ayton, and probably Bridges if he continues to become one of the premier wing defenders in the NBA, but I think we need flexibility to add multiple pieces around them instead of a guy on a max no team wants. If love had this year and next on his contract, it would be perfect, but those last two year are killers.

That's fair. I believe more in Love as a facilitator for the growth of Booker and Ayton than you do.

I also think you have to get over this mental hump that Love is marginally better Saric and that we're paying Love $30m for rebounds. We're not paying Rubio $17m for assists on the score board. We're paying Rubio to transform our offense, set guys up better, be a communicator on offense and being a leader. We're paying Love to stretch the floor (consistently) and having his own gravity which opens the floor up further for Booker and Ayton. We're paying Love for more reliable and higher IQ offense in the frameworks of the system. We're paying Love for his leadership and championship experience. We're paying Love to occasionally step up and give up a 30pt game when Booker or Ayton or Oubre are having an off game.

[lilfishi22]

The principle is to build around what we have. On a good rebuild, you would have 2 maybe 3 years of bottom feeding and you should have the pieces required to start building off. We've been rebuilding for 4-5 years and it's clear this front office is looking at raising the floor with the moves we've made. We've raised that floor and the next step is to keep raising that floor. It is also my belief is that the ceiling is not defined by any free agent out there, our ceiling is defined by how good Booker and Ayton can become. The only way to see that is to keep raising that floor and allow Booker and Ayton to get experience in meaningful games in order to take it to hopefully take their game to another level. For most young players, chasing a spot in the playoffs is their first meaningful game on a rebuilding team. The next meaningful experience are games in mid-to-late April. The next meaningful experience are games in the 2nd round. I think Love can play a role in all of these steps. I don't think he's a factor past this point that but you have to take those steps in order to get to that next level.

Bringing in Love will essentially shut us out of big FA's and I'm OK with that because I don't think we're very attractive a destination anyway and if what you're saying about us needing to use our scouting department better to improve in drafting talent, adding Love doesn't take us away from that.

I agree with what you say, but I don't see Love playing a part in getting us to the second round ever, if he can get us into the playoffs at all. You are right that this team will go as far as Booker and Ayton, and probably Bridges if he continues to become one of the premier wing defenders in the NBA, but I think we need flexibility to add multiple pieces around them instead of a guy on a max no team wants. If love had this year and next on his contract, it would be perfect, but those last two year are killers.

You have got to be kidding yourself if you think teams dont want Love. Plenty of teams would Love to get their hands on Love, but are already straddles with their own Large Contract players they have to contend with. Im sure Kerr in GS would love Love, but they have already EXCEEDED the cap with just 4 players! (Curry/Klay/DLO/Greene make a combined $119M and the cap is $109M). Im sure Dantoni would welcome Love into the Rockets but cant because Harden/Westbrook make a combined $80M and Capella/Gordon a combined $30M, once again exceeding the cap on 4 players. I could go on and on about playoff teams that could use and would want Love and how they cant afford him because they are already paying the tax on just 4 players.

Its not that nobody wants Love, its they dont have the means to obtain him, which we and a handful of others do.

Portland would love Love

[Mjee]

#GoGetLove

[lilfishi22]

I’ve said it before but I don’t hate the idea of Love and think his game should age gracefully. He’d make us more watchable and a lot better when healthy. But man if it doesn’t feel like the most irresponsible decision a team in our position could make. The upside is 7/8 seed and downside is a broken player taking up a fourth of our cap for the next 3 years. I’d put the chances of it happening at less than 5% anyway so I won’t worry about it further.

Think of it as giving the young guys a real team that not only plays meaningful games in Feb and March but also April and possibly May. If the criteria for making a move is top 4 seed or nothing, you're not going to go very far.

Totally get the downside and I'm still not totally comfortable with Love's $90m remaining but we just need 2 good seasons from him and the last season is a $28m expiring.

[DirtyDez]

No chance..

Love’s body is breaking down, Rubio will probably break down due to international minutes accumulating and Olympics next summer. Our roster could be in serious trouble with both those guys next season and beyond.

The alternative of standing pat doesn’t exactly inspire excitement either. Not until the light bulb turns on permanently for DA.

[DirtyDez]

Given his fit next to Ayton, Rubio and Booker, his ability to score from almost every part of the court and his leadership is something we could certainly use. Your point about defense is valid but I'm actually more hopeful about Ayton's defense than ever before. Throw in 3PT shooting which we're missing and you have a guy that can rebound and he's a great fit for us offensively.

I think you have to get away from the number a bit and just accept it's a big number. Whether he's on $20m, or $25m or $30m a year, it's kind of irrelevant because any of those numbers would likely take us out of the market for a big time FA anyway. Considering we haven't been a real big time FA destination for a long time, I'm not so sure cap space would serve us very well.

So if you're asking, does he bring $30m of individual production on his own? I don't think he does. But does he have the ability to bring $30m worth of overall positive impact on this team (better fit for Ayton, better team rebounding, more veteran leadership, stretches the floor for key playmakers, solid passing abilities, brings 16-20ppg on his own), I think entirely possible should he stay healthy.

And I don't think you can really compare Love now to when we traded for Shaq. Shaq was about to turn 36 when he landed and I think it was easy to see, given his size and recent play that a decline would be rapid. Oh and that good 29yo player we traded; we didn't trade him because we wanted Shaq, we traded him because he wanted out and we took a punt on Shaq. The players that is likely outgoing for a Love trade is probably not players that is/was that good anyway (Johnson, Saric? Oubre?)

I know Marion wanted a max, and perhaps was a little sensitive, but I don't think he wanted out. He had been here 10 years and had grown. The story was that Sarver just got giddy at the thought of Shaq. Anwyay, it doesn't matter now, and I don't know what we'd have to give up for Love, but given the age difference, if we had to give up a first, then it's like giving up an Obi Toppin or whatever for him in addition to expirings. I seriously doubt we would get him for just for Johnson and not much else. But yeah, if you're not convinced that having cap flexibility is important for the next 3 summers, and just want us to be a little better now when he's healthy, it's worth a shot, but if you look around the league, you don't see too many teams having built their team in this fashion. The best teams do it through the draft unless they are in LA. Sure, Boston signed Kemba and Hayward but had remained relevant while being good and getting high Nets picks.

It's neither here or there but I think we can both agree that it wasn't likely we would've resolved that Marion situation if Sarver wasn't going to max him out. Everything was pointing to an exit sign for Marion.

Who knows exactly what Cavs are gonna get for Love. I just know it's probably a little more than what I think but much less than what they expect. All the info out there is saying they are after a 1st round pick but not a single team has offered that up.

My goal in a Love trade is not to just get a little better and that's it but to get better in the short/medium term and for our young guys learn to win by having the necessary pieces to help them win. The problem with looking around the league and seeing how the best teams are built is that we're just not good at building through the draft. We've whiffed on so many important picks that we're at the stage where we just need to maximise what we have and see/hope that Booker and Ayton become a legit two man duo.

Boston drafted well and has a very high level coach players want to play for. Golden State drafted super well and were very smart with cap space/signing. Denver drafted really well to add depth each year and has a high level coach. Milwaukee lucked out on a generational talent in Giannis and made shrew moves to build along side Giannis. Toronto likewise drafted very well and won it all by bringing in that final piece.

Marion feelings of being unappreciated were already seeds planted in McCallum’s book and that was the 05-06’ season. They tried trading him before the 07-08’ season.

Miami’s Big 3 would have never gotten together if Shawn Marion, of all people, had gotten what he wanted. Marion was so stubborn about wanting a max contract back in 2007 that his insistence helped blow up a three-team deal that could have sent Kevin Garnett from Minnesota to Phoenix. That deal would have prevented Garnett from ever teaming up with Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to win a championship in Boston. But Marion wouldn’t re-sign with a trading team that wasn’t offering the max, so he was instead sent to Miami for a disgruntled Shaquille O’Neal. Miami offered Marion a four-year contract that would have also kept Miami’s Big 3 from uniting, but not at the max. So Marion asked to be traded … and had to settle in Dallas for a five-year, $39 million deal that was far less than the max.

https://defpen.com/kevin-garnett-trade-to-suns-in-2007-stopped-by-shawn-marion-contract-demands/

[bwgood77]

Sure, Love will get the boards, and if you are hanging your hat and want to pay him that money for the boards, then he's your guy, at least for a year or two. His shooting should hold up longer, but it's not like it's phenomenal (though he did great from 3 tonight).

He shot 63% tonight and hit 6 from deep. Yeah, thats a good night. But once again he is just hitting his point average. Look at what we currently have. Dario has a random 20 point game and we are ecstatic! He hits 20 points once a month. Done it 3 times this season, Once in January, Once in December, and Once in November. But 20 points a game is just about the average for Love. He's hit over 20 points in 16 games this season.

Fun fact: When our starting PF (Saric) gets over 20 points a game, we win those game! All 3 games this season when he actually contributed on the offensive end like a starter should and scored 20 points, we have won every game.

Throw Love in and his 16 20 point games, and i can tell you that i believe we would have won a hell of a lot more games, and a lot of those 2-3 point losses would have been the other way around.

Huge difference between Saric and Love.

But you assume he just automatically puts any points as he does now on a different team. They don't have a big putting in too many points. We have guys who need to get their shots up. Their overall shooting % isn't that much different.