2020 Offseason Speculation, free agency, summer trades (keep draft prospect talk in draft thread)

[nevetsov]

Even if Oubre does return for these last 8 games, he's going to be rusty. In which case, I don't see an immediate placement back into the starting lineup.

This gives us the perfect excuse to see how the starters function with Cam at PF and using Oubre and Saric off the bench.

Rubio, Payne
Booker
Bridges, Oubre
Johnson, Saric
Ayton, Kaminsky

You add Vassell, sign a PG and maybe flip Kaminsky out for Baynes and you've got a decent team there.

[Ghost of Kleine]

[

Spoiler:

quote="WeekapaugGroove"]

Thing is, right after McD was fired, Sarver did a rare radio interview and said that he won't go into everything but (1) McD controlling the draft was the basis for their agreement and (2) McD, not Sarver, made the draft decisions. Even if they had an NDA I think that statement would allow McD to speak openly on that point in response. Though I have a feeling JDLAW has been a lot closer to these sorts of agreements than I have, so I wonder what he thinks.

Again, You of course could be right! IF what Sarver said was in fact true ( and not just mere damage control). However, to be fair, As stated, There were varying reports indicating the contrary, That Sarver often had often invoked his authority to have Final say in the overwhelming majority of front office decisions with respect to the draft, trades, etc. Including many former front office employees, league affiliates and analysts familiar with Sarver indicating their disdain for his narcissistic, controlling and severe micromanaging behaviors. Lastly, I don't expect someone like Sarver ( given his narcissistic personality to openly admit to/ take responsibility for any heavily criticized front office decisions). But again, that's just my opinion based off many varying reports indicating the same premise. Perhaps the radio interview was just more damage control with McD being the intended scapegoat. Which then adds credibility to the adversarial and overtly contentious relationship that they shared? In the end, it's very hard to guage, and only time will tell if Sarver shows the same patterns and tendencies even post McD era. But his admitted interest in interviews ( post McD) to step back and be less involved, and actually let his GM have more autonomy in decisions, At least to me, Would indicate some level of guilt and authenticity to the argument against him. I guess we may never know for sure.

I remember that interview and Sarver definitely went out of his way to say McD ran the draft, I actually tend to believe him on that one because McD loves to blame people and he's never really pushed back. Frankly owners having final say in big decisions is not unusual, they sign off on all major contracts and trades. One example is Mark Cuban has mentioned he veto'd them drafting Giannis and was a mistake he learned from. I also remember Zach Lowe on a pod talking about a time he was talking to a GM about another GM and saying 'well they work for X owner so maybe this wasn't their fault' and that GM stopped him and said one of the main jobs of a GM is to manage their owner and sell their vision so ultimately if you can't get something done it's as much on you as the owner.

The real inappropriate **** that Sarver has supposedly done is getting on coaches about rotations and in game strategy, that's just sticking your nose somewhere that you don't belong and can create a bad environment. He's also tried to go cheap on coaching hires prior to Monty and much like life you typically get what you pay for.

I've said this before but there's no worse thing than having a bad owner for your team. Bad GMs, coaches, or players are temporary but a bad owner is there for as long as they choose (barring pulling a Sterling).[/quote]

Definitely! Everyone can of course make there own assumptions freely. And as for going far out of his way to say that McD ran the draft,
With knowing Sarver and his narcissistic tendencies, Do you really expect him that soon after letting McD go, To take responsibility for bad front office decisions that generated immense criticism, animosity and backlash at the time? Even though he really should have, As you yourself suggested it's not unusual for the owners to have a final say! And it's my opinion that he exercised that right often with respect to all front office, draft, personnel decisions. Again, I'm going off numerous reports rather than choosing to take Sarver at his word, At least until time proves otherwise.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/clutchpoints.com/suns-news-owner-robert-sarver-has-aggressively-interfered-in-basketball-operations-in-recent-years/amp/

The Phoenix Suns recently fired general manager Ryan McDonough and now it looks like Robert Sarver — the team’s owner — was interfering in basketball operations in recent years, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.

Sarver has earned a long reputation for aggressively involving himself in basketball decisions, but it’s become harder for coaches and front office staff to manage in the past two years after the Suns became Sarver’s primary business interest.

Rival executives could sometimes hear Sarver yelling in the background on negotiation calls with the Suns’ front office. Agents tell stories of private conversations occurring with Sarver without the front office’s knowledge

Involvement from owners isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but if Wojnarowski’s reports are true, this surpasses normal involvement on Sarver’s part.

This situation is much more than typical involvement from an owner.

It sounds more like the owner is undermining his employees and creating a tough environment for any of his executives or coaches to succeed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26088024/inside-phoenix-suns-messy-dysfunctional-front-office%3fplatform=amp

But just as troubling as invading the work spaces of his players and coaches, say those who have worked for Sarver, is his meddling in personnel decisions. An individual who has worked in the Suns' front office says Sarver, in his best moments, poses challenging questions that can help frame a conversation. But often, process can get derailed by impulse

Several sources say Sarver was the catalyst for fast-tracking Watson's hire, prompted by his conversations with veterans in Phoenix. Then-general manager Ryan McDonough was more apprehensive. Sarver insists that final word on the acquisition of players has fallen to his executives, and denies that he overrode McDonough or any of his GMs on personnel decisions, including Watson, who was out after an unsightly 0-3 start to the 2017-18 season.

*** Seems like Sarver had the final say on this one! Even though his GM at the time seemed apprehensive of it. So did he really not overrule his gms' decision in this situation? Which would be contrary to his reported insistence that his executives have the final say!


https://www.google.com/amp/s/arizonasports.com/story/1695056/charles-barkley-phoenix-suns-gm-mcdonough-sarver-bickley/amp/

This is an important matter. Shortly after Jay Triano’s promotion, I heard McDonough confronted Sarver on his meddling ways, pleading with the owner to stay out of the front-line process. And it worked. Until it didn’t.

McDonough’s firing seems to be contradictory to Sarver’s reported growth, harsh treatment for a GM who lost a chunk of his locker-room credibility by adhering to a tanking philosophy, the dirty work that led to Deandre Ayton and Josh Jackson

Any highly-skilled executive with real leverage will never work for the Suns without full autonomy. During Sarver’s chaotic stewardship of the Suns, we all know that will never happen.

“The rumors persist that he is too much hands-on, too much involved,” Barkley said. “I’ve heard that from Steve Kerr. I’ve heard that from Grant Hill, guys I’ve worked with at Turner Sports. You can’t hire people and then not let them do their jobs.

Now do we have definitive, irrefutable evidence that Sarver did or did not directly meddle with, override, or Alter McDs' draft decisions? Not presently. So again, We'll each have to make our own distinctions. But McD did also identify Booker/ Warren/ Mikhail Bridges/ DeAndre Ayton. So he did more or less identify 3 of our 5 core players. And Warren wasn't exactly a flop of a pick either. So his track record should be a wash at worst, Without knowing definitively about any potential involvement by Sarver. Overall, I hope that Sarver is truly committed to letting the front office actually have full autonomy. But only time will truly tell.

[lilfishi22]

He just hasn’t been blatantly cheap like selling first round picks, but the cheapness never stopped with him. Until Monty, he was always hiring the cheapest coach available. Even recently, he apparently fired the entire scouting staff along with McD, and never bothered replacing most of them. We lost our training staff to New Orleans last summer. Now he sold the Gleague team. It’s one thing or another, he is always cutting costs somewhere.

And GM's. McD was cheap because he was young and had very little high level GM experience. Exactly like Jones. Exactly like Kerr.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

[

Spoiler:

quote="WeekapaugGroove"][quote="Ghost of Kleine"][quote="ImNotMcDiSwear"]

Thing is, right after McD was fired, Sarver did a rare radio interview and said that he won't go into everything but (1) McD controlling the draft was the basis for their agreement and (2) McD, not Sarver, made the draft decisions. Even if they had an NDA I think that statement would allow McD to speak openly on that point in response. Though I have a feeling JDLAW has been a lot closer to these sorts of agreements than I have, so I wonder what he thinks.[/quote]

Again, You of course could be right! IF what Sarver said was in fact true ( and not just mere damage control). However, to be fair, As stated, There were varying reports indicating the contrary, That Sarver often had often invoked his authority to have Final say in the overwhelming majority of front office decisions with respect to the draft, trades, etc. Including many former front office employees, league affiliates and analysts familiar with Sarver indicating their disdain for his narcissistic, controlling and severe micromanaging behaviors. Lastly, I don't expect someone like Sarver ( given his narcissistic personality to openly admit to/ take responsibility for any heavily criticized front office decisions). But again, that's just my opinion based off many varying reports indicating the same premise. Perhaps the radio interview was just more damage control with McD being the intended scapegoat. Which then adds credibility to the adversarial and overtly contentious relationship that they shared? In the end, it's very hard to guage, and only time will tell if Sarver shows the same patterns and tendencies even post McD era. But his admitted interest in interviews ( post McD) to step back and be less involved, and actually let his GM have more autonomy in decisions, At least to me, Would indicate some level of guilt and authenticity to the argument against him. I guess we may never know for sure. [/quote]

I remember that interview and Sarver definitely went out of his way to say McD ran the draft, I actually tend to believe him on that one because McD loves to blame people and he's never really pushed back. Frankly owners having final say in big decisions is not unusual, they sign off on all major contracts and trades. One example is Mark Cuban has mentioned he veto'd them drafting Giannis and was a mistake he learned from. I also remember Zach Lowe on a pod talking about a time he was talking to a GM about another GM and saying 'well they work for X owner so maybe this wasn't their fault' and that GM stopped him and said one of the main jobs of a GM is to manage their owner and sell their vision so ultimately if you can't get something done it's as much on you as the owner.

The real inappropriate **** that Sarver has supposedly done is getting on coaches about rotations and in game strategy, that's just sticking your nose somewhere that you don't belong and can create a bad environment. He's also tried to go cheap on coaching hires prior to Monty and much like life you typically get what you pay for.

I've said this before but there's no worse thing than having a bad owner for your team. Bad GMs, coaches, or players are temporary but a bad owner is there for as long as they choose (barring pulling a Sterling).[/quote]

Definitely! Everyone can of course make there own assumptions freely. And as for going far out of his way to say that McD ran the draft,
With knowing Sarver and his narcissistic tendencies, Do you really expect him that soon after letting McD go, To take responsibility for bad front office decisions that generated immense criticism, animosity and backlash at the time? Even though he really should have, As you yourself suggested it's not unusual for the owners to have a final say! And it's my opinion that he exercised that right often with respect to all front office, draft, personnel decisions. Again, I'm going off numerous reports rather than choosing to take Sarver at his word, At least until time proves otherwise.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/clutchpoints.com/suns-news-owner-robert-sarver-has-aggressively-interfered-in-basketball-operations-in-recent-years/amp/

[quote]The Phoenix Suns recently fired general manager Ryan McDonough and now it looks like Robert Sarver — the team’s owner — was interfering in basketball operations in recent years, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.

Sarver has earned a long reputation for aggressively involving himself in basketball decisions, but it’s become harder for coaches and front office staff to manage in the past two years after the Suns became Sarver’s primary business interest.[/quote]

[quote]Rival executives could sometimes hear Sarver yelling in the background on negotiation calls with the Suns’ front office. Agents tell stories of private conversations occurring with Sarver without the front office’s knowledge[/quote]

[quote]Involvement from owners isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but if Wojnarowski’s reports are true, this surpasses normal involvement on Sarver’s part. [/quote]

[quote]This situation is much more than typical involvement from an owner.

It sounds more like the owner is undermining his employees and creating a tough environment for any of his executives or coaches to succeed.[/quote]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26088024/inside-phoenix-suns-messy-dysfunctional-front-office%3fplatform=amp

[quote]But just as troubling as invading the work spaces of his players and coaches, say those who have worked for Sarver, is his meddling in personnel decisions. An individual who has worked in the Suns' front office says Sarver, in his best moments, poses challenging questions that can help frame a conversation. But often, process can get derailed by impulse [/quote]

[quote]Several sources say Sarver was the catalyst for fast-tracking Watson's hire, prompted by his conversations with veterans in Phoenix. Then-general manager Ryan McDonough was more apprehensive. Sarver insists that final word on the acquisition of players has fallen to his executives, and denies that he overrode McDonough or any of his GMs on personnel decisions, including Watson, who was out after an unsightly 0-3 start to the 2017-18 season.[/quote]
*** Seems like Sarver had the final say on this one! Even though his GM at the time seemed apprehensive of it. So did he really not overrule his gms' decision in this situation? Which would be contrary to his reported insistence that his executives have the final say!


https://www.google.com/amp/s/arizonasports.com/story/1695056/charles-barkley-phoenix-suns-gm-mcdonough-sarver-bickley/amp/

[quote]This is an important matter. Shortly after Jay Triano’s promotion, I heard McDonough confronted Sarver on his meddling ways, pleading with the owner to stay out of the front-line process. And it worked. Until it didn’t.

McDonough’s firing seems to be contradictory to Sarver’s reported growth, harsh treatment for a GM who lost a chunk of his locker-room credibility by adhering to a tanking philosophy, the dirty work that led to Deandre Ayton and Josh Jackson [/quote]

[quote]Any highly-skilled executive with real leverage will never work for the Suns without full autonomy. During Sarver’s chaotic stewardship of the Suns, we all know that will never happen.

“The rumors persist that he is too much hands-on, too much involved,” Barkley said. “I’ve heard that from Steve Kerr. I’ve heard that from Grant Hill, guys I’ve worked with at Turner Sports. You can’t hire people and then not let them do their jobs.
[/quote]

Now do we have definitive, irrefutable evidence that Sarver did or did not directly meddle with, override, or Alter McDs' draft decisions? Not presently. So again, We'll each have to make our own distinctions. But McD did also identify Booker/ Warren/ Mikhail Bridges/ DeAndre Ayton. So he did more or less identify 3 of our 5 core players. And Warren wasn't exactly a flop of a pick either. So his track record should be a wash at worst, Without knowing definitively about any potential involvement by Sarver. Overall, I hope that Sarver is truly committed to letting the front office actually have full autonomy. But only time will truly tell.[/quote]

Exceptionally well put. I think you got me on this one.

[Ghost of Kleine]

[

Spoiler:

quote="WeekapaugGroove"][quote="Ghost of Kleine"][quote="ImNotMcDiSwear"]

Thing is, right after McD was fired, Sarver did a rare radio interview and said that he won't go into everything but (1) McD controlling the draft was the basis for their agreement and (2) McD, not Sarver, made the draft decisions. Even if they had an NDA I think that statement would allow McD to speak openly on that point in response. Though I have a feeling JDLAW has been a lot closer to these sorts of agreements than I have, so I wonder what he thinks.[/quote]

Again, You of course could be right! IF what Sarver said was in fact true ( and not just mere damage control). However, to be fair, As stated, There were varying reports indicating the contrary, That Sarver often had often invoked his authority to have Final say in the overwhelming majority of front office decisions with respect to the draft, trades, etc. Including many former front office employees, league affiliates and analysts familiar with Sarver indicating their disdain for his narcissistic, controlling and severe micromanaging behaviors. Lastly, I don't expect someone like Sarver ( given his narcissistic personality to openly admit to/ take responsibility for any heavily criticized front office decisions). But again, that's just my opinion based off many varying reports indicating the same premise. Perhaps the radio interview was just more damage control with McD being the intended scapegoat. Which then adds credibility to the adversarial and overtly contentious relationship that they shared? In the end, it's very hard to guage, and only time will tell if Sarver shows the same patterns and tendencies even post McD era. But his admitted interest in interviews ( post McD) to step back and be less involved, and actually let his GM have more autonomy in decisions, At least to me, Would indicate some level of guilt and authenticity to the argument against him. I guess we may never know for sure. [/quote]

I remember that interview and Sarver definitely went out of his way to say McD ran the draft, I actually tend to believe him on that one because McD loves to blame people and he's never really pushed back. Frankly owners having final say in big decisions is not unusual, they sign off on all major contracts and trades. One example is Mark Cuban has mentioned he veto'd them drafting Giannis and was a mistake he learned from. I also remember Zach Lowe on a pod talking about a time he was talking to a GM about another GM and saying 'well they work for X owner so maybe this wasn't their fault' and that GM stopped him and said one of the main jobs of a GM is to manage their owner and sell their vision so ultimately if you can't get something done it's as much on you as the owner.

The real inappropriate **** that Sarver has supposedly done is getting on coaches about rotations and in game strategy, that's just sticking your nose somewhere that you don't belong and can create a bad environment. He's also tried to go cheap on coaching hires prior to Monty and much like life you typically get what you pay for.

I've said this before but there's no worse thing than having a bad owner for your team. Bad GMs, coaches, or players are temporary but a bad owner is there for as long as they choose (barring pulling a Sterling).[/quote]

Definitely! Everyone can of course make there own assumptions freely. And as for going far out of his way to say that McD ran the draft,
With knowing Sarver and his narcissistic tendencies, Do you really expect him that soon after letting McD go, To take responsibility for bad front office decisions that generated immense criticism, animosity and backlash at the time? Even though he really should have, As you yourself suggested it's not unusual for the owners to have a final say! And it's my opinion that he exercised that right often with respect to all front office, draft, personnel decisions. Again, I'm going off numerous reports rather than choosing to take Sarver at his word, At least until time proves otherwise.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/clutchpoints.com/suns-news-owner-robert-sarver-has-aggressively-interfered-in-basketball-operations-in-recent-years/amp/

[quote]The Phoenix Suns recently fired general manager Ryan McDonough and now it looks like Robert Sarver — the team’s owner — was interfering in basketball operations in recent years, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.

Sarver has earned a long reputation for aggressively involving himself in basketball decisions, but it’s become harder for coaches and front office staff to manage in the past two years after the Suns became Sarver’s primary business interest.[/quote]

[quote]Rival executives could sometimes hear Sarver yelling in the background on negotiation calls with the Suns’ front office. Agents tell stories of private conversations occurring with Sarver without the front office’s knowledge[/quote]

[quote]Involvement from owners isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but if Wojnarowski’s reports are true, this surpasses normal involvement on Sarver’s part. [/quote]

[quote]This situation is much more than typical involvement from an owner.

It sounds more like the owner is undermining his employees and creating a tough environment for any of his executives or coaches to succeed.[/quote]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26088024/inside-phoenix-suns-messy-dysfunctional-front-office%3fplatform=amp

[quote]But just as troubling as invading the work spaces of his players and coaches, say those who have worked for Sarver, is his meddling in personnel decisions. An individual who has worked in the Suns' front office says Sarver, in his best moments, poses challenging questions that can help frame a conversation. But often, process can get derailed by impulse [/quote]

[quote]Several sources say Sarver was the catalyst for fast-tracking Watson's hire, prompted by his conversations with veterans in Phoenix. Then-general manager Ryan McDonough was more apprehensive. Sarver insists that final word on the acquisition of players has fallen to his executives, and denies that he overrode McDonough or any of his GMs on personnel decisions, including Watson, who was out after an unsightly 0-3 start to the 2017-18 season.[/quote]
*** Seems like Sarver had the final say on this one! Even though his GM at the time seemed apprehensive of it. So did he really not overrule his gms' decision in this situation? Which would be contrary to his reported insistence that his executives have the final say!


https://www.google.com/amp/s/arizonasports.com/story/1695056/charles-barkley-phoenix-suns-gm-mcdonough-sarver-bickley/amp/

[quote]This is an important matter. Shortly after Jay Triano’s promotion, I heard McDonough confronted Sarver on his meddling ways, pleading with the owner to stay out of the front-line process. And it worked. Until it didn’t.

McDonough’s firing seems to be contradictory to Sarver’s reported growth, harsh treatment for a GM who lost a chunk of his locker-room credibility by adhering to a tanking philosophy, the dirty work that led to Deandre Ayton and Josh Jackson [/quote]

[quote]Any highly-skilled executive with real leverage will never work for the Suns without full autonomy. During Sarver’s chaotic stewardship of the Suns, we all know that will never happen.

“The rumors persist that he is too much hands-on, too much involved,” Barkley said. “I’ve heard that from Steve Kerr. I’ve heard that from Grant Hill, guys I’ve worked with at Turner Sports. You can’t hire people and then not let them do their jobs.
[/quote]

Now do we have definitive, irrefutable evidence that Sarver did or did not directly meddle with, override, or Alter McDs' draft decisions? Not presently. So again, We'll each have to make our own distinctions. But McD did also identify Booker/ Warren/ Mikhail Bridges/ DeAndre Ayton. So he did more or less identify 3 of our 5 core players. And Warren wasn't exactly a flop of a pick either. So his track record should be a wash at worst, Without knowing definitively about any potential involvement by Sarver. Overall, I hope that Sarver is truly committed to letting the front office actually have full autonomy. But only time will truly tell.[/quote][/quote]

Exceptionally well put. I think you got me on this one.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Thanks man!
I appreciate the compliment. Every once and a while, I get it right somewhat! Lol
Overall, I just hope that Sarver has genuinely learned his lesson, And will remain committed to allowing his GM to have full autonomy to execute his plans accordingly. And if they opt to go the cost effective route, That they'll look to add depth through the draft with some of the prospects that we've all been discussing.

[bwgood77]

Even if Oubre does return for these last 8 games, he's going to be rusty. In which case, I don't see an immediate placement back into the starting lineup.

This gives us the perfect excuse to see how the starters function with Cam at PF and using Oubre and Saric off the bench.

Rubio, Payne
Booker
Bridges, Oubre
Johnson, Saric
Ayton, Kaminsky

You add Vassell, sign a PG and maybe flip Kaminsky out for Baynes and you've got a decent team there.

It's nice to think that that's a possibility, but my bet would be that if Saric OR Oubre come back, either one of them will be in at PF if healthy over Cam. I don't really expect Oubre to be back though.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=09

Speaking of McDonough, Check out this funny Twitter exchange from earlier today between Sreeker And Ryan McDonough himself.
Mentions the Sarver goats too!