bwgood77 wrote:Rosas is an aggressive GM, and he worked around the clock to pair Russell with Towns...he won't give up easily, or soon.
I think the bigger issue is that the Wolves are reportedly for sale, so they will want to hold onto the biggest names they can to make the team more "Valuable" to prospective buyers. Ive also seen more than a few writers mock drafts pencil in the Wolves taking Ball over Edwards for this same reason. I guess Ball name holds more weight/value than Edwards with also some kind of added starpower.
I think Ball makes more sense, and they can easily move Russell to the 2, in sort of a Booker role. You (and I), have compared his earlier stats to Booker...and if he gets that Rubio type of PG to play with, it would help. The problem with Ball is the defense (which they desperately need) and the shooting, but his passing would help.
They REALLY need to try and compete now. I think Haliburton would be a phenomenal pick for them to pair with Russell in the backcourt..could immediately contribute, etc. Vassell wouldn't be bad too, so if they could trade down, and get another asset, I think it's worth thinking about. Even Okongwu for the defense, and he could stay inside with Towns on the outside, could probably help as well, but perimeter defense could be a challenge against small ball teams...same with Wiseman. But I strongly consider trading down..I think Edwards and Ball are too risky. Edwards wasn't good in college and Toppin and Dayton, with far less overall talent, being the smaller school, crushed them by 19.
Also, Gallo is also likely the best legitimate big name free agent that we could possibly add anyways.
Im totally down to go after Gallo. Mentioned trading for him many many many times before (Probably from every team he has played for). His shooting has remained top notch and he has really worked on his defense in recent years (111 defensive rating compared to Bridges 110). He's also a very solid passing bigman as well.
The hard thing will be figuring a way to come up with the capspace to sign him. He just made $23M this season and had a great year, so i doubt he will be willing to take much of a discount to come play for us. If he is taking a discount to play anywhere, it will be for a high playoff locked contender.
We are sitting at $93M (With Baynes/Carter/Saric all off the books) and the estimated cap for the 2020-21 season is $115M. Also have to figure out what to do with Oubre. Either you trade him now and get the same $$ worth of players in return, find a team with the capspace and willing to do it for a very large TPA ($15M) that NEEDS a starting SF and views Oubre as "That Guy", or you re-ink him and worry about trading him later on (After this new season).
Teams needing help at the SF spot (According to a blog titled "The Biggest Need of Every NBA Team" on a gambling website ): Rockets, Knicks, Thunder, Blazers. I would also add the Hornets/Cav's/Pistons/Magic to that list as well.
To be honest, I don’t see a strong market for Galinari this summer. I wouldn’t be surprised if he could be signed for ~12m per.
There are three realistic ways to get Galinari. It comes down to these choices
Scenario = drop Baynes and Dario cap holds Galinari + Room MLE(~4m)+ 5m in cap space vs Dario + Baynes + Full MLE (~9m)
Or
Scenario = trade Oubre, drop Baynes cap hold Galinari + Room MLE (~4m) + Dario + 13m in cap space Vs Oubre + Baynes + Full MLE (~9m) + Dario
Or
Scenario = trade Oubre, drop Baynes and Dario cap holds Galinari + Room MLE (~4m) + 22m cap space Vs Oubre + Baynes + Dario + Full MLE (~9m)
Directionally I would rather see us build an athletic defensive team. We need to capitalize on Aytons switch ability on defense. My top FA targets would be guys like Grant, Wood, Holiday, FVV, Crowder over the offense only FA like Galinari, Bertans, Harris.
I'm with you that Galo isn't my number 1 choice for this off-season but I do think there's a realistic chance the suns do target and land him. His high BBIQ and shooting would fit their O at PF. Defense would be the issue but no doubt he's a talented guy so I'm wouldn't be mad if they sign him.
I also agree his market could be a little soft. Id guess he could be looking at a deal similar to what Rubio got last year.
I also agree moving Oubre is the easiest path. You'd first see if you could get an asset from a cap space team for him. I could see Detroit have some interest. Another path would be to simply send him to OKC in a Galo sign and trade. Id bet OKC would be cool with that because they could test drive Kelly and either keep him next summer or flip him at the deadline. Would be a nice little asset for a guy in Galo who I really doubt they have much interest in resigning before they rebuild.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
I honestly feel bad for Minnesota. Play in the West which is a monster of a conference and get screwed with a bunch of travel when there are much closer opponents in the east. Then you have a city (which is actually a pretty nice city) that will never be all that appealing to NBA players because of the brutal winters so anytime you get someone really good you have at best a 50/50 shot they sign a 3rd contract hell that's probably being generous with the odds.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
Ghost of Kleine wrote:If we determined that Oubre has decided to not resign with us for whatever reason, Causing us to entertain best possible trade offers for him, And thusly were found to be interested in trading Oubre/ 10 to GS in the often proposed trade ( from the trade board, Would you then consider this variation to maximize our returning value for him?
Phoenix/ Golden State ( 2 part intended).
1- Phoenix trades Oubre/ 10th pick/ 2023 top 6 protected first to Golden State for The 2nd pick and the (17.2 million) Iggy TPE. 2- Phoenix trades the 2nd pick to New York for the 8th pick/ 27th pick/ Dallas 2021 unprotected first. We then use the 8th pick to ( guarantee) that we get Vassell And then with the 27th pick , We draft Paul Reed. Opposite of Whoever we take ( BPA) at 8 really. Lastly, we buy a mid to late first ( 40s' )? And draft Tyshon Alexander.
Then in free agency, We clear enough space by declining Kaminskys' team option. and renouncing Okobo, Diallo/ Saric. I say Saric because we now use that cap space to sign Gallo for around 63/3? Then we resign Baynes using our bird rights. And run out a lineup of:
1st- Rubio/ Booker/ Bridges/ Gallo/ Ayton.
2nd- Alexander/ Vassell/ Cam/ Reed/ Baynes. **( Both Cam and Reed are interchangeable at the 3/4) 3rd- Payne/ Carter/ Bridges/ Cam/ Reed.
*** With " Point Book" lineups looking like: - Book/ Cam/ Bridges/ Gallo/ Ayton. And a 2nd unit of : - Rubio/ Vassell/ Bridges/ Cam/ Baynes. 3rd unit of: Payne/ Carter/ Vassell/ Bridges/ Reed? 90% lockdown Defense! Adding Gallinari to Rubio/ Booker/ Cam and Ayton would give us a Top 5 offense. And then adding Vassell and Reed along with Carter would give us a great balance of elite switchable lockdown defense too. We'd be pretty strong on both ends of the floor. We'd also definitely be around a top 5-6 playoff team. And the big bonus would be that Gallo is again Booker's long time family friend. He played basketball with Books' father Melvin, and he's been his mentor since he was a young child! Of only 12 yrs old.( keeping Book happy)! Booker even considers him to be like a big brother to him!
Also, Gallo is also likely the best legitimate big name free agent that we could possibly add anyways.
I feel like adding anything more than the 10 and Oubre for the 2 is too much. The 2 isn't valuable enough to add more assets to get it. If the Warriors can find a better deal, then by all means. Especially knowing we likely will never use that TPE given who our owner is.
Normally I would agree with your position on this wholeheartedly. And IF we could get the deal done with only Oubre and the 10, That would be optimal! But for this premise in order to guarantee the deal gets done, I don't mind adding the ( 2023 Top 6 protectedfirst) Because the 2023 draft projects as being rather mediocre in comparison to the 21' and 22' draft. Also, The premise is in the value of securing the 2nd pick in order to intentionally flip it to New York. As they do highly covet Ball, But currently don't really have any truly enticing impact players on their roster to send to GS, That GS would want.
So for my part, I'd be willing to up the value slightly ( by adding the 2023 protected first) in order to be able to flip it for the 8th pick. Which would pretty much GUARANTEE that we'd be able to draft one of: Vassell / Toppin/ Hayes/ Haliburton ( in that order of preference ( for me personally)
AND ALSO the 27th pick which would most likely allow us to also take one of Desmond Bane/ Tyler Bey/ Paul Reed or even Xavier Tillman ( early) perhaps? Then on top of that, We'd also be getting the 2021 Dallas unprotected first ( I view as a premium piece personally). That we could package with either or 2021 or 2022 first, OR MAYBE BOTH!! For an Anthony Davis or a Giannis type of star player possibly? Adding these assets for me personally make it worth giving up the 2023 protected first, Again because I have bigger plans for the 2nd pick rather than just using it to take Melo or Whoever by itself. Lastly we can use this additional cap space from the TPE ( 17.2 million) to add a key piece towards a playoff run. Maybe a Gallinari? Maybe a Gordon Hayward? And then make the playoffs, And in 2021, Turn around and use either of those big name premium veteran players as the centerpiece of a trade deal, along with players and multiple picks for a Giannis or for a Anthony Davis or a Bradley Beal or a McCollum or an Embiid perhaps?
Ghost of Kleine wrote:If we determined that Oubre has decided to not resign with us for whatever reason, Causing us to entertain best possible trade offers for him, And thusly were found to be interested in trading Oubre/ 10 to GS in the often proposed trade ( from the trade board, Would you then consider this variation to maximize our returning value for him?
Phoenix/ Golden State ( 2 part intended).
1- Phoenix trades Oubre/ 10th pick/ 2023 top 6 protected first to Golden State for The 2nd pick and the (17.2 million) Iggy TPE. 2- Phoenix trades the 2nd pick to New York for the 8th pick/ 27th pick/ Dallas 2021 unprotected first. We then use the 8th pick to ( guarantee) that we get Vassell And then with the 27th pick , We draft Paul Reed. Opposite of Whoever we take ( BPA) at 8 really. Lastly, we buy a mid to late first ( 40s' )? And draft Tyshon Alexander.
Then in free agency, We clear enough space by declining Kaminskys' team option. and renouncing Okobo, Diallo/ Saric. I say Saric because we now use that cap space to sign Gallo for around 63/3? Then we resign Baynes using our bird rights. And run out a lineup of:
1st- Rubio/ Booker/ Bridges/ Gallo/ Ayton.
2nd- Alexander/ Vassell/ Cam/ Reed/ Baynes. **( Both Cam and Reed are interchangeable at the 3/4) 3rd- Payne/ Carter/ Bridges/ Cam/ Reed.
*** With " Point Book" lineups looking like: - Book/ Cam/ Bridges/ Gallo/ Ayton. And a 2nd unit of : - Rubio/ Vassell/ Bridges/ Cam/ Baynes. 3rd unit of: Payne/ Carter/ Vassell/ Bridges/ Reed? 90% lockdown Defense! Adding Gallinari to Rubio/ Booker/ Cam and Ayton would give us a Top 5 offense. And then adding Vassell and Reed along with Carter would give us a great balance of elite switchable lockdown defense too. We'd be pretty strong on both ends of the floor. We'd also definitely be around a top 5-6 playoff team. And the big bonus would be that Gallo is again Booker's long time family friend. He played basketball with Books' father Melvin, and he's been his mentor since he was a young child! Of only 12 yrs old.( keeping Book happy)! Booker even considers him to be like a big brother to him!
Also, Gallo is also likely the best legitimate big name free agent that we could possibly add anyways.
I feel like adding anything more than the 10 and Oubre for the 2 is too much. The 2 isn't valuable enough to add more assets to get it. If the Warriors can find a better deal, then by all means. Especially knowing we likely will never use that TPE given who our owner is.
Normally I would agree with your position on this wholeheartedly. And IF we could get the deal done with only Oubre and the 10, That would be optimal! But for this premise in order to guarantee the deal gets done, I don't mind adding the ( 2023 Top 6 protectedfirst) Because the 2023 draft projects as being rather mediocre in comparison to the 21' and 22' draft. Also, The premise is in the value of securing the 2nd pick in order to intentionally flip it to New York. As they do highly covet Ball, But currently don't really have any truly enticing impact players on their roster to send to GS, That GS would want.
So for my part, I'd be willing to up the value slightly ( by adding the 2023 protected first) in order to be able to flip it for the 8th pick. Which would pretty much GUARANTEE that we'd be able to draft one of: Vassell / Toppin/ Hayes/ Haliburton ( in that order of preference ( for me personally)
AND ALSO the 27th pick which would most likely allow us to also take one of Desmond Bane/ Tyler Bey/ Paul Reed or even Xavier Tillman ( early) perhaps? Then on top of that, We'd also be getting the 2021 Dallas unprotected first ( I view as a premium piece personally). That we could package with either or 2021 or 2022 first, OR MAYBE BOTH!! For an Anthony Davis or a Giannis type of star player possibly? Adding these assets for me personally make it worth giving up the 2023 protected first, Again because I have bigger plans for the 2nd pick rather than just using it to take Melo or Whoever by itself. Lastly we can use this additional cap space from the TPE ( 17.2 million) to add a key piece towards a playoff run. Maybe a Gallinari? Maybe a Gordon Hayward? And then make the playoffs, And in 2021, Turn around and use either of those big name premium veteran players as the centerpiece of a trade deal, along with players and multiple picks for a Giannis or for a Anthony Davis or a Bradley Beal or a McCollum or an Embiid perhaps?
I just think it's too much. It would have to be a heavily protected 1st. Like, top 20 protected, otherwise becomes 2 future 2nds. I guess the Dallas 1st makes up for it. Probably a toss up to if it'd be worth it or not.
WeekapaugGroove wrote:I honestly feel bad for Minnesota. Play in the West which is a monster of a conference and get screwed with a bunch of travel when there are much closer opponents in the east. Then you have a city (which is actually a pretty nice city) that will never be all that appealing to NBA players because of the brutal winters so anytime you get someone really good you have at best a 50/50 shot they sign a 3rd contract hell that's probably being generous with the odds.
Don't think it's an indictment on the city (assuming the rumor is true). Chicago's weather is pretty brutal as well, and players seem receptive to live and play there. And like you said Minneapolis is a really nice city in its own right. Better than Phoenix or Milwaukee. Maybe even better than Boston or Washington.
As for KAT, I think it's a matter of lifestyle. He's dating Jordyn Woods, and I wouldn't be surprised that's the catalyst for the change. And/or he's at the age where he needs to think about where he wants to plant firm roots on a permanent basis. And a bigger city fits his life preference better than Minneapolis.
KAT was 100% committed publicly to the Timberwolves last year, and the organization have done everything it could to make him happy. His 180 on the commitment is a cause for concern for Suns, in hoping Booker would stay, IMO. Booker has the dream life that any baller aspire to have. If LA is looking for a star to acquire, I wouldn't be surprised if he jumps ship. If you think Minny has at best a 50/50 shot at keeping KAT, I think the Suns have about the same odds as keeping Book.
Kerrsed wrote: Im totally down to go after Gallo. Mentioned trading for him many many many times before (Probably from every team he has played for). His shooting has remained top notch and he has really worked on his defense in recent years (111 defensive rating compared to Bridges 110). He's also a very solid passing bigman as well.
The hard thing will be figuring a way to come up with the capspace to sign him. He just made $23M this season and had a great year, so i doubt he will be willing to take much of a discount to come play for us. If he is taking a discount to play anywhere, it will be for a high playoff locked contender.
We are sitting at $93M (With Baynes/Carter/Saric all off the books) and the estimated cap for the 2020-21 season is $115M. Also have to figure out what to do with Oubre. Either you trade him now and get the same $$ worth of players in return, find a team with the capspace and willing to do it for a very large TPA ($15M) that NEEDS a starting SF and views Oubre as "That Guy", or you re-ink him and worry about trading him later on (After this new season).
Teams needing help at the SF spot (According to a blog titled "The Biggest Need of Every NBA Team" on a gambling website ): Rockets, Knicks, Thunder, Blazers. I would also add the Hornets/Cav's/Pistons/Magic to that list as well.
To be honest, I don’t see a strong market for Galinari this summer. I wouldn’t be surprised if he could be signed for ~12m per.
There are three realistic ways to get Galinari. It comes down to these choices
Scenario = drop Baynes and Dario cap holds Galinari + Room MLE(~4m)+ 5m in cap space vs Dario + Baynes + Full MLE (~9m)
Or
Scenario = trade Oubre, drop Baynes cap hold Galinari + Room MLE (~4m) + Dario + 13m in cap space Vs Oubre + Baynes + Full MLE (~9m) + Dario
Or
Scenario = trade Oubre, drop Baynes and Dario cap holds Galinari + Room MLE (~4m) + 22m cap space Vs Oubre + Baynes + Dario + Full MLE (~9m)
Directionally I would rather see us build an athletic defensive team. We need to capitalize on Aytons switch ability on defense. My top FA targets would be guys like Grant, Wood, Holiday, FVV, Crowder over the offense only FA like Galinari, Bertans, Harris.
I'm with you that Galo isn't my number 1 choice for this off-season but I do think there's a realistic chance the suns do target and land him. His high BBIQ and shooting would fit their O at PF. Defense would be the issue but no doubt he's a talented guy so I'm wouldn't be mad if they sign him.
I also agree his market could be a little soft. Id guess he could be looking at a deal similar to what Rubio got last year.
I also agree moving Oubre is the easiest path. You'd first see if you could get an asset from a cap space team for him. I could see Detroit have some interest. Another path would be to simply send him to OKC in a Galo sign and trade. Id bet OKC would be cool with that because they could test drive Kelly and either keep him next summer or flip him at the deadline. Would be a nice little asset for a guy in Galo who I really doubt they have much interest in resigning before they rebuild.
Another path would be to simply send him to OKC in a Galo sign and trade
This is a really solid idea. To be honest, I actually thought about it alot, in this context:
Phoenix/ OKC
Phoenix trades Oubre/ Kaminsky/ 10th pick for Gallinari ( agreed upon sign n' trade) around 60/ 3 / 25th/ 53rd pick. 25- Tyler Bey? Desmond Bane? ( I love Banes' game, But would probably go with Tyler Bey here for his elite versatile lockdown defensive ability). Especially next to Gallo! 53- Tyshon Alexander? Or Luke Kennard? ( I still like his potential comparison to Kennard personally) http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=sam-merrill--luke-kennard
But I didn't think we could do it because of the draft being before free agency, And with Gallo being an unrestricted free agent??? I also wasn't sure if it was possible to acquire his bird rights with him being an unrestricted free agent too? ( Per CBA rules) Anyone have clarification on this? But If this was indeed possible, This would probably be the optimal path I'd prioritize. But if not, Then the 2 part trade with : Part 1- Trading Oubre/10 to GS for the TPE AND the 2nd pick. Part 2- Trading the 2nd pick to New York for the 8/25/ Dallas 2021 unprotected would be my primary option. Then using the ( 17.2 million) TPE to outright sign Gallinari, If people really think we can get him on the cheap due to the lockdown, shallow market, depreciated cap. I mean I do think Oubre is awesome, But IF we can turn Oubre /10/ 2023 ( Top 6) protected first into Gallinari/ 8th/ 27th picks/ and the Dallas 2021 unprotected first, I think that's pretty close to a maximum value return for Oubre ( a solid starter on an expiring contract, recently off an injury)??
WeekapaugGroove wrote:I honestly feel bad for Minnesota. Play in the West which is a monster of a conference and get screwed with a bunch of travel when there are much closer opponents in the east. Then you have a city (which is actually a pretty nice city) that will never be all that appealing to NBA players because of the brutal winters so anytime you get someone really good you have at best a 50/50 shot they sign a 3rd contract hell that's probably being generous with the odds.
Don't think it's an indictment on the city (assuming the rumor is true). Chicago's weather is pretty brutal as well, and players seem receptive to live and play there. And like you said Minneapolis is a really nice city in its own right. Better than Phoenix or Milwaukee. Maybe even better than Boston or Washington.
As for KAT, I think it's a matter of lifestyle. He's dating Jordyn Woods, and I wouldn't be surprised that's the catalyst for the change. And/or he's at the age where he needs to think about where he wants to plant firm roots on a permanent basis. And a bigger city fits his life preference better than Minneapolis.
KAT was 100% committed publicly to the Timberwolves last year, and the organization have done everything it could to make him happy. His 180 on the commitment is a cause for concern for Suns, in hoping Booker would stay, IMO. Booker has the dream life that any baller aspire to have. If LA is looking for a star to acquire, I wouldn't be surprised if he jumps ship. If you think Minny has at best a 50/50 shot at keeping KAT, I think the Suns have about the same odds as keeping Book.
I grew up about 2 hours from Minneapolis so know the area well. I think it's simply that basketball is a winter sport and it's a brutal place to live from Dec-Feb. Heck Chicago hasn't been that successful in getting high profile FAs either and that's a huge city and team with a legacy. At least Chicago has some good players who grew up near there where as MN isn't exactly a hot bed of prep basketball talent.
Now I don't think KAT gets moved anytime soon. He has 4 years left on his deal so very very limited leverage. A couple years from now when be has 1-2 years left that's a different story.
As far as leaving the reality is lots of star players leave after their second contract. It's their first chance of real FA freedom because of the RFA rules with that second contract. And guys leave for a variety of reasons it's always hard to predict whats actually important as we've seen guys leave good basketball situations and big markets. Booker is in the same boat and it's absolutely possible he leaves.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
WeekapaugGroove wrote:I honestly feel bad for Minnesota. Play in the West which is a monster of a conference and get screwed with a bunch of travel when there are much closer opponents in the east. Then you have a city (which is actually a pretty nice city) that will never be all that appealing to NBA players because of the brutal winters so anytime you get someone really good you have at best a 50/50 shot they sign a 3rd contract hell that's probably being generous with the odds.
Don't think it's an indictment on the city (assuming the rumor is true). Chicago's weather is pretty brutal as well, and players seem receptive to live and play there. And like you said Minneapolis is a really nice city in its own right. Better than Phoenix or Milwaukee. Maybe even better than Boston or Washington.
As for KAT, I think it's a matter of lifestyle. He's dating Jordyn Woods, and I wouldn't be surprised that's the catalyst for the change. And/or he's at the age where he needs to think about where he wants to plant firm roots on a permanent basis. And a bigger city fits his life preference better than Minneapolis.
KAT was 100% committed publicly to the Timberwolves last year, and the organization have done everything it could to make him happy. His 180 on the commitment is a cause for concern for Suns, in hoping Booker would stay, IMO. Booker has the dream life that any baller aspire to have. If LA is looking for a star to acquire, I wouldn't be surprised if he jumps ship. If you think Minny has at best a 50/50 shot at keeping KAT, I think the Suns have about the same odds as keeping Book.
Minnesota's not THAT nice. It's a pretty nice city, but the weather is awful...it's 10 degrees colder on avg in the winter than Chicago (though I know Chicago is windy) but that 10 degrees is the difference between ice ALL winter packing the ground in Minnesota (never going away until near April) and it melting away in Chicago...that ice is a pain....and it's not nearly the big city feel as Chicago that gives players that great lifestyle and scenes....and I don't know of too many FA's going to Chicago...who has gone there?
Minnesota is nice to live if you can handle the weather in the sense that it kind of has the small town feel with the bigger city stuff too, and downtown is pretty nice. But I much preferred living in Phoenix, Denver, San Diego and Austin.
The Lakers can't afford to sign Booker while LeBron AND AD are there. Not enough cap space. And they don't have the assets/picks to trade for him.
I wouldnt trade Ayton for KAT, because Suns need a defensive Big man to make the current team work... Suns have shooters and a closer in Booker, so they need a big man who would still contribute if he isnt getting much shots. KAT has become a 3pt shooter, AMAZING for a 7 footer... but he takes away from his wing players offensively. Just watch them play. Instead of drawing the defense inside to free up wings to shoot... Towns competes with his wing players in shots. Hence why even with magical numbers Wolves are horrible.
its no coincidence 76ers were much better when they had Embiid dominating inside while surrounded by shooters... Embiid becoming a wannabe SG has made them easy to beat.
Defensively at least Embiid is two tiers above Towns... Ayton is about 1.5 tiers above Towns and improving fast.
However, if Suns could pair Ayton and Towns... with Booker, that would great. Suns twin towers inside and out... and a closer in Booker.
Either way, I think Towns rumor is a "movement" to have Warriors make an offer for him... they are fascinated with Giannis or Towns to insert next to Curry and Klay and Green.
Saw a bad yet intriguing trade on the Trade Board. Here was the original that got shut down (ATL fans didnt like it, Warrior fans were good with it until the future pick swap was taken out):
GS trades #2 for Oubre, #10, 2021 pick swap with Atl (GS has right to switch Min pick with Atl).
Atl trades Huerter, #6, and possible 2021 pick for #2 and possibly Min 2021.
Pho trades Oubre and #10 for Huerter and #6.
Now i wouldnt do it as constructed. As i stated, GS fans were good with it and ATL fans wanted no part of it, so i just cut ATL out of it and made 1 small change.
Warriors get pretty much what was in the original trade with the exception being the future pick swap being the Suns and not the Wolves, Suns get a much better return on Oubre who had a career season last year (Original trade was weak for the Suns).
This gets us out of the Oubre situation (Who starts between him or Bridges; Do we re-sign?). We pick up Bridges former Villanova running partner in Paschall on a very cheap deal, who played pretty decent for GS last season. He isnt going to be a star in any shape or form, but is a smart teammate, a glue guy, pretty much a younger exact version of PJ Tucker. The rest of the deal will be covered by Iggy's TPE (Roughly $14M). It will also get us damn near whoever we want in the draft. Yeah its going to cost us a pick swap in the future, but we better not be a lotto team again next season, and just like GS this season, all it takes is an injury or two for them to fall down the standings and be lower than us, thus making the future pick trade null in void.
Spoiler:
Its #DUMPSTERFIRE SEASON! #TeamTRAINWRECK -KERRSED- The Mod, The Myth, The Legend
I like Paschall. He can play some small ball C and obviously PF and he is cheap for the next three years. He would be a good addition, that trade looks fair to me.
thamadkant wrote:I wouldnt trade Ayton for KAT, because Suns need a defensive Big man to make the current team work... Suns have shooters and a closer in Booker, so they need a big man who would still contribute if he isnt getting much shots. KAT has become a 3pt shooter, AMAZING for a 7 footer... but he takes away from his wing players offensively. Just watch them play. Instead of drawing the defense inside to free up wings to shoot... Towns competes with his wing players in shots. Hence why even with magical numbers Wolves are horrible.
its no coincidence 76ers were much better when they had Embiid dominating inside while surrounded by shooters... Embiid becoming a wannabe SG has made them easy to beat.
Defensively at least Embiid is two tiers above Towns... Ayton is about 1.5 tiers above Towns and improving fast.
However, if Suns could pair Ayton and Towns... with Booker, that would great. Suns twin towers inside and out... and a closer in Booker.
Either way, I think Towns rumor is a "movement" to have Warriors make an offer for him... they are fascinated with Giannis or Towns to insert next to Curry and Klay and Green.
Towns is not worse than Ayton on defense IMO. They are on the same tier, they can block some shots and move their feet decently on the perimeter against smaller players, but none of them are very good defensively FOR NOW.
Ayton can get there because he has shown some improvement in his second season, but he needs to be more consistent and be more active every single game. I would believe it when I see it, for now it's all about potential but not a sure thing yet.
So I would put Ayton slightly over Towns as a defender, but Towns is hands down the better offensive player. Yeah, Ayton can improve and be as good as Towns, but if you think about it that is a really long shot. It's not easy to be as great as Towns on offense, he has crazy 3p shot and is a great finisher around the rim too. He knows how to get to the FTL. And his post play is underrated. I think in the playoffs those post skills would be more useful than in the RS.
All in all I would trade Ayton + Oubre + pick for Towns in a second because that would put us in the playoffs for the next few years and who knows about our ceiling with Booker and Towns together with two-way players around them. But the Wolves wouldn't trade him, he is their only All Star and he is entering his prime. They would ask for much more IMO.
Kerrsed brought up a good point about the Wolves being for sale. There's zero chance a towns deal happens prior to that sale. It's just too big of a franchise decision and would be one made by the new owner not one with a foot out the door.
Now if there's a qualified buyer I think this sale could happen in the next month or so because having the #1 pick is another organizational level decision and the incoming owner will probably want some input on that.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
So you basically just trade a pick swap for Paschall? That could be #12-16 or so next year for a late 20s pick. Ultimately, I don't think the Warriors would do that as they need cheap players and Paschall was really good for them. Contributing players on rookie contracts are something they really need...if anything they lack depth, so I think they will want to really hold onto Paschall.
Also, Gallo is also likely the best legitimate big name free agent that we could possibly add anyways.
Im totally down to go after Gallo. Mentioned trading for him many many many times before (Probably from every team he has played for). His shooting has remained top notch and he has really worked on his defense in recent years (111 defensive rating compared to Bridges 110). He's also a very solid passing bigman as well.
The hard thing will be figuring a way to come up with the capspace to sign him. He just made $23M this season and had a great year, so i doubt he will be willing to take much of a discount to come play for us. If he is taking a discount to play anywhere, it will be for a high playoff locked contender.
We are sitting at $93M (With Baynes/Carter/Saric all off the books) and the estimated cap for the 2020-21 season is $115M. Also have to figure out what to do with Oubre. Either you trade him now and get the same $$ worth of players in return, find a team with the capspace and willing to do it for a very large TPA ($15M) that NEEDS a starting SF and views Oubre as "That Guy", or you re-ink him and worry about trading him later on (After this new season).
Teams needing help at the SF spot (According to a blog titled "The Biggest Need of Every NBA Team" on a gambling website ): Rockets, Knicks, Thunder, Blazers. I would also add the Hornets/Cav's/Pistons/Magic to that list as well.
To be honest, I don’t see a strong market for Galinari this summer. I wouldn’t be surprised if he could be signed for ~12m per.
There are three realistic ways to get Galinari. It comes down to these choices
Scenario = drop Baynes and Dario cap holds Galinari + Room MLE(~4m)+ 5m in cap space vs Dario + Baynes + Full MLE (~9m)
Or
Scenario = trade Oubre, drop Baynes cap hold Galinari + Room MLE (~4m) + Dario + 13m in cap space Vs Oubre + Baynes + Full MLE (~9m) + Dario
Or
Scenario = trade Oubre, drop Baynes and Dario cap holds Galinari + Room MLE (~4m) + 22m cap space Vs Oubre + Baynes + Dario + Full MLE (~9m)
Directionally I would rather see us build an athletic defensive team. We need to capitalize on Aytons switch ability on defense. My top FA targets would be guys like Grant, Wood, Holiday, FVV, Crowder over the offense only FA like Galinari, Bertans, Harris.
How about renouncing to Baynes and trading Frank for nothing?
Kerrsed wrote: Im totally down to go after Gallo. Mentioned trading for him many many many times before (Probably from every team he has played for). His shooting has remained top notch and he has really worked on his defense in recent years (111 defensive rating compared to Bridges 110). He's also a very solid passing bigman as well.
The hard thing will be figuring a way to come up with the capspace to sign him. He just made $23M this season and had a great year, so i doubt he will be willing to take much of a discount to come play for us. If he is taking a discount to play anywhere, it will be for a high playoff locked contender.
We are sitting at $93M (With Baynes/Carter/Saric all off the books) and the estimated cap for the 2020-21 season is $115M. Also have to figure out what to do with Oubre. Either you trade him now and get the same $$ worth of players in return, find a team with the capspace and willing to do it for a very large TPA ($15M) that NEEDS a starting SF and views Oubre as "That Guy", or you re-ink him and worry about trading him later on (After this new season).
Teams needing help at the SF spot (According to a blog titled "The Biggest Need of Every NBA Team" on a gambling website ): Rockets, Knicks, Thunder, Blazers. I would also add the Hornets/Cav's/Pistons/Magic to that list as well.
To be honest, I don’t see a strong market for Galinari this summer. I wouldn’t be surprised if he could be signed for ~12m per.
There are three realistic ways to get Galinari. It comes down to these choices
Scenario = drop Baynes and Dario cap holds Galinari + Room MLE(~4m)+ 5m in cap space vs Dario + Baynes + Full MLE (~9m)
Or
Scenario = trade Oubre, drop Baynes cap hold Galinari + Room MLE (~4m) + Dario + 13m in cap space Vs Oubre + Baynes + Full MLE (~9m) + Dario
Or
Scenario = trade Oubre, drop Baynes and Dario cap holds Galinari + Room MLE (~4m) + 22m cap space Vs Oubre + Baynes + Dario + Full MLE (~9m)
Directionally I would rather see us build an athletic defensive team. We need to capitalize on Aytons switch ability on defense. My top FA targets would be guys like Grant, Wood, Holiday, FVV, Crowder over the offense only FA like Galinari, Bertans, Harris.
How about renouncing to Baynes and trading Frank for nothing?
That would be option two. I am assuming we don’t pick up the option on Frank this year in all of these scenarios. I could see us bringing Frank back on a vet min contract though
Kerrsed wrote: Im totally down to go after Gallo. Mentioned trading for him many many many times before (Probably from every team he has played for). His shooting has remained top notch and he has really worked on his defense in recent years (111 defensive rating compared to Bridges 110). He's also a very solid passing bigman as well.
The hard thing will be figuring a way to come up with the capspace to sign him. He just made $23M this season and had a great year, so i doubt he will be willing to take much of a discount to come play for us. If he is taking a discount to play anywhere, it will be for a high playoff locked contender.
We are sitting at $93M (With Baynes/Carter/Saric all off the books) and the estimated cap for the 2020-21 season is $115M. Also have to figure out what to do with Oubre. Either you trade him now and get the same $$ worth of players in return, find a team with the capspace and willing to do it for a very large TPA ($15M) that NEEDS a starting SF and views Oubre as "That Guy", or you re-ink him and worry about trading him later on (After this new season).
Teams needing help at the SF spot (According to a blog titled "The Biggest Need of Every NBA Team" on a gambling website ): Rockets, Knicks, Thunder, Blazers. I would also add the Hornets/Cav's/Pistons/Magic to that list as well.
To be honest, I don’t see a strong market for Galinari this summer. I wouldn’t be surprised if he could be signed for ~12m per.
There are three realistic ways to get Galinari. It comes down to these choices
Scenario = drop Baynes and Dario cap holds Galinari + Room MLE(~4m)+ 5m in cap space vs Dario + Baynes + Full MLE (~9m)
Or
Scenario = trade Oubre, drop Baynes cap hold Galinari + Room MLE (~4m) + Dario + 13m in cap space Vs Oubre + Baynes + Full MLE (~9m) + Dario
Or
Scenario = trade Oubre, drop Baynes and Dario cap holds Galinari + Room MLE (~4m) + 22m cap space Vs Oubre + Baynes + Dario + Full MLE (~9m)
Directionally I would rather see us build an athletic defensive team. We need to capitalize on Aytons switch ability on defense. My top FA targets would be guys like Grant, Wood, Holiday, FVV, Crowder over the offense only FA like Galinari, Bertans, Harris.
How about renouncing to Baynes and trading Frank for nothing?
If that would get us there, Sure! But I believe Crives did a pretty brilliant job of outlining our best possible outcomes. So I'll have to reference them again. But I do Believe Gallo would give us a top 5 offense in the league. And depending upon the framework of the trade, And the (hopefully) lower amount we might be able to get him for, I'd look to put add a versatile, athletic, long switchable defender around him preferably.
Maybe IF we could do it without surrendering our 10th pick, Then I'd take Vassell, And have Vassell and Bridges flanking him on the perimeter, And Ayton in the post. Otherwise IF we can do a sign n' trade ( not sure how exactly though) have to do something like:
Phoenix/OKC OUBRE/ Diallo/ 10th pick for Gallinari ( bird rights?/ resigned and traded later )?/ 25th/53rd pick.
23- Tyler Bey. He's got Elite defensive awareness and is an elite switchable defender who can guard positions 1-4 ( some small ball 5) too. 53- Tyshon Alexander or Ashton Hagans. Both are elite defensive potential at the guard position. And could be a solid defensive compliment to Booker in the backcourt.
I don't know for sure IF we could actually trade for his bird rights with him being an unrestricted free agent. And then pay him slightly above his market value for this season. But if not, Then I'd try to do what Crives mentioned in trading Oubre to Detroit for Kennard + cap space. And then I'd renounce Baynes cap hold ? and then decline Kaminskys' team option. I'd use the additional cap space not intended for Gallinari to acquire a late first for Tyler Bey. And an early to mid 2nd for a cheap defensive backup center option. Any of Oturu/ Carey/ Stewart/ Azubuike/ Richards should do.
bwgood77 wrote: No, you can't sign Russell if you have Booker and Towns on maxes and are paying Bridges. Of course you keep Bridges over Cam. You also would have bird rights on Rubio so could keep him, but at some point once we go over the cap, Sarver will have a limit.
I am unsure if KAT has a killer instinct too, and while Ayton certainly doesn't, he's only played like 110 games, while Towns has been in the league 5 years, so I think there is a small chance Ayton gets there, even though it hasn't been in his nature. I don't know if some other players seemed to have much of a killer instinct early, like Jokic, for example, but I didn't watch him much his first couple of years.
I do agree we need to continue to make good picks in the draft and hopefully have rotation guys on rookie contracts, but you can't have too many highly paid guys unless they are super difference makers, so we need to be careful who we spend a lot of money on.
Thats a good deal. I wonder if Philly is gonna try and swing for him too and offer up Embiid. If we got KAT tho we have to keep Bridges. Between Booker and Kat we'd need someone who can play defense
I don't disagree with AtheJ or most who say on the surface, you have to trade for KAT...now I was talking trading Ayton for KAT, because you'd certainly have to...there isn't many other ways it works...you don't have enough otherwise, and you can't play two bigs like that together anyway...with a team like the Lakers, those guys other than Dwight/McGee can guard PFs fine and both hit 3s and pass well.
But trading Ayton for KAT does give me a little pause because of the lack of killer instinct that Butler noted while there...he didn't see those guys as winners, and a guy like Towns, if he is a true difference maker, should be able to make the Wolves competitive without a guy like Jimmy, if he's THAT good.
Ayton doesn't have it yet, but his development from year 1 to year 2, to me, having watched him in college and not expecting the jump at all in defense, was eye opening....then we saw the 3 ball in the bubble. Of course next he needs to improve handle, aggressiveness, taking to rim and help D, but I think he can get most of that. Monty seems to be a good teacher and Baynes is a GREAT influence if we can keep him....showed him how to talk and direct defense on the floor..his screaning vastly improved too. Booker's killer instinct will rub off some in his early years, as well as Bridges' defensive intensity. KAT is too far along to change too much on the defensive end. Now of course KAT is far better on offense and can really stretch the floor, but A LOT of people who watch him closely are not fans. He is not nearly at the level of Jokic and Embiid, and Gobert is more of a difference maker now with his defense. If Ayton gets that 3 ball to hit at a good upper 30s this year, which I think is a possibility, or at least mid 30s, I think it will really help open up the offense. I really hope he is watching Jokic, Dwight and AD in the playoffs.....PLEASE take interest in these games Ayton.
This all being said, Minnesota won't trade him any time soon. His contract goes through 2024, so the earliest they could think about it is probably summer of 2023, or at the very earliest, trade deadline of 22, and he'd have to likey turn down a supermax.
Rosas is an aggressive GM, and he worked around the clock to pair Russell with Towns...he won't give up easily, or soon.
Yeah. This whole KAT thing is just rosterbation imo. I don't see why MN would trade him, they have him locked up and won't have to trade him no matter how much he whines for another 3 years or so. But they just got 1 of his best friends in the league plus the #1 pick I don't see why he wouldn't give it a shot anyway. I'm sure he'd like to come here or to the Sixers but that team is built around him and he's got his boy there so this seems like just fan talk to me.
That being said IF this actually could happen I'd do it of course but like you I'd be hesitant to pull the trigger. Ayton is, imo already a much better and smarter defender than KAT and I feel he's also more athletic. They're both kinda passive so it's a wash there but Ayton at least is much younger and can still (hopefully) become tougher and more assertive with other bigs. KAT is an animal offensively and a sieve defensively. If Ayton can get some fire in him and play smarter I honestly think he can get there on level with KAT. Probably not 3 point shooting but with the rebounds while being a stronger force inside. I'd still do the trade just b/c with KAT and Booker you have 2 of the league premier scorers and all you would need to do is just surround those dudes with role players but I wouldn't offer anymore than Ayton, Oubre and the 10th pick. We would need to keep Bridges to balance out the lack of D.
WeekapaugGroove wrote:I honestly feel bad for Minnesota. Play in the West which is a monster of a conference and get screwed with a bunch of travel when there are much closer opponents in the east. Then you have a city (which is actually a pretty nice city) that will never be all that appealing to NBA players because of the brutal winters so anytime you get someone really good you have at best a 50/50 shot they sign a 3rd contract hell that's probably being generous with the odds.
Don't think it's an indictment on the city (assuming the rumor is true). Chicago's weather is pretty brutal as well, and players seem receptive to live and play there. And like you said Minneapolis is a really nice city in its own right. Better than Phoenix or Milwaukee. Maybe even better than Boston or Washington.
As for KAT, I think it's a matter of lifestyle. He's dating Jordyn Woods, and I wouldn't be surprised that's the catalyst for the change. And/or he's at the age where he needs to think about where he wants to plant firm roots on a permanent basis. And a bigger city fits his life preference better than Minneapolis.
KAT was 100% committed publicly to the Timberwolves last year, and the organization have done everything it could to make him happy. His 180 on the commitment is a cause for concern for Suns, in hoping Booker would stay, IMO. Booker has the dream life that any baller aspire to have. If LA is looking for a star to acquire, I wouldn't be surprised if he jumps ship. If you think Minny has at best a 50/50 shot at keeping KAT, I think the Suns have about the same odds as keeping Book.
Strongly disagree here. Just comparing the cities. PHX is very close to LA without having to deal with all of the drama that goes with living in LA while also having a thriving nightlife, great weather all year long, and being much closer to vacation spots that South of the border and in the Gulf. City wise its not close. If we didn't have $arver here being cheap and stupid we'd be 1 of the better destinations for NBA players.
Booker even considers him to be like a big brother to him! 
