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2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22, Kerrsed

If Suns get Chris Paul, who will be the 2nd leading scorer on the team?

Ayton
44
94%
Paul
3
6%
 
Total votes: 47

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3941 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:30 pm

matt131 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
matt131 wrote:Exactly. I mean, I love the current team we have. They were more fun to watch than any team we've had for a long time

But paul's contract is just as long as rubio's. If he can bring in free agents who, without him, would have been out of our price range, he will have added value. If he can whip Deandre into shape and get him to focus and be agrresive, he will have added value. If, at the end of his contract, he got us to two playoffs and other players notice we have a good, new culture and our young players are good, he will have added value.

I was initially against this trade and honestly still don't want to see Rubio or Oubre go. I love those guys. But even after 1 year, if it doesn't work, you have a 40 million dollar expiring contract that might actually he worth something to another team. The risk is high, but there are some contingency plans. The reward has a tremendously high ceiling, and it seems like that might over shadow the possible downside of the trade


What free agents? We don't have any money really. You mean Gallinari? He still isn't long for this league.

People keep mentioning expiring contracts. They are not worth that much anymore, except to a team looking to dump a long term $40 million contract. I don't understand why people view a huge expiring as easy to dump.

The great thing about an expiring contract if the player isn't worth it any more is that it expires the next year and is off your books...you certainly don't want to trade it and take on some salary dump from another team of a longer $40 million contract.

The only time you can probably get a good player back in the deal is if a team is deep into the tax for the future and needs to get out of it, but they would still need to send a ton of money back.



Free agents? Look at David Nash's IV point play newsletter. He does a great job of breaking down exactly what we could do with a Chris Paul trade and free agents. It seems to be more than you're thinking.

As for the expiring contract, I'm just saying, it could be, if used wisely and with the right team, deemed an asset, or at least not a terrible burden for us.

I guess my main point is that there are more outcomes than just "it will fail horribly" or "it will be a huge success" if we trade for Paul.


The second one with Bertans? Or is there a newer one? I didn't really think his Bertans for $12-13 million a year was an astute take.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3942 » by Kerrsed » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:35 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
The second one with Bertans? Or is there a newer one? I didn't really think his Bertans for $12-13 million a year was an astute take.


https://thefourpointplay.substack.com/p/vol-1-iss-14-what-about-chris-paul

Im a fan of #2, which also somehow comes out to be the cheapest of the 3.

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3943 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:36 pm

BobbieL wrote:
matt131 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20

Flex comes on at around the 38 min mark.

He sure sounds discouraged from the past day or so. Seems like maybe one side is taking longer than expected to find a way to make this happen. I imagine it's us not being able to find a good home for Rubio and Oubre. Hopefully they read Kerrsed's 4 team trade proposal soon haha


I will not be disappointed if the deal falls through... we still have Rubio; we would still have Oubre, still would have 10-12m of cap space with which to get free agents (if Saric is brought back).

Just hope Booker isn't ticked off, Oubre isn't ticked and Rubio ticked off if the deal falls through. AS I do think with the 10th pick and cap space, the Suns can improve the current roster nicely. I mean, for Chris Paul you are giving basically Rubio, Oubre, Jerome and a 6-76m player to get to 41m cash outlay (and yes I know with the cap you really only need 33). I was all for being conservative this offseason anyway. Bringing back Saric, Oubre, finding a two guard and leaving yourself open for 2021 offseason.


Clippers could offer Beverley, Zubac, Lou Williams and McGruder for Paul. I don't know if Paul would want to go back to the Clippers though. They'd still have Shamet, Kabengele, JaMychal Green and a couple of exceptions to use to partially fill out their roster.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3944 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:38 pm

Arguing nash vs Paul is like arguing what supermodel is hotter. Kind of pointless and just appreciate they both are hot. Both on the very short list of best PGs of all time.

While we're having some hot takes here's one frim me: I'd still take Ayton 2nd if they redid the 2018 draft today. I was and still am a Luka guy so this take isn't coming from an Ayton homer perspective. I loved JJJ but I don't think he'll ever rebound well enough to be a full time C so that drives his value below Ayton for me. MPJ showed some flashes but his back and **** for brains scare me. SGA is nice and all but frankly a little overrated presently. Lots would say Young but I never totally bought him and I still think he's fool's gold who will struggle to succeed in the playoffs.

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3945 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:39 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
The second one with Bertans? Or is there a newer one? I didn't really think his Bertans for $12-13 million a year was an astute take.


https://thefourpointplay.substack.com/p/vol-1-iss-14-what-about-chris-paul

Im a fan of #2, which also somehow comes out to be the cheapest of the 3.

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Yeah that's about what I figured when I figured Gallinari might come, and we keep the pick, so that would be a nice roster for a year or two if Paul and Gallinari stay healthy.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3946 » by Saberestar » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:54 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
The second one with Bertans? Or is there a newer one? I didn't really think his Bertans for $12-13 million a year was an astute take.


https://thefourpointplay.substack.com/p/vol-1-iss-14-what-about-chris-paul

Im a fan of #2, which also somehow comes out to be the cheapest of the 3.

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Oh my...

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3947 » by LukasBMW » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:03 pm

This just screams of classic Robert Sarver impatience. We got lucky with getting Nash to hold up for so long. That's is VERY rare and was probably due in large part to our incredible training staff (which Sarver ran out of town).

I'm not a Rubio fan, and I'm all for upgrading him, but I think we forget just how well Oubre played at times last year.

Additionally, making a move based only on our bubble play is so stupid. The bubble absolutely boosted stats for some players as playing in a empty gym instead in front of a huge crowd can really skew some stats. I love Bridges but let's see how he plays when things return to normal before we hand him 40mpg a game at the 3 position.

Finally, if we are giving away Oubre, #10, and Rubio, we better be getting back a PG that is under 32 so he fits with the timeline.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3948 » by Stark » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:04 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
Stark wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Paul is/was a complete player. Nash was never one.


Paul will be 35 next year. 35 year old Steve averaged 16.5/11 while shooting 54/42/93 in 81 games. Carried his team to WCF while being the greatest teammate i've ever seen. I hope Paul can be as good as him.


Well, instead of TALKING about comparing stats of two 35 year olds when one hasnt hit that age quite yet so you only provide stats from one side, why dont we just take stats from both of them at 34?

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I'd say offensively it was pretty close. Nash has the better percentages, but they are all awfully close except 3PT%. Nash with more assists (More turnovers as well). CP3 scoring more, rebounding more, collecting more steals. Defensively it isnt even close. 1.4 DBPM vs -2.1. Thats a HUGE difference and highlights Nash's complete lack of defense.


Discussion started with how Nash had chronic back issues that's why i underlined the 81 games+playoff performance and to me the main topic wasn't how Paul played last year with the Thunder. As a Suns fan what's important to me is his contribution to the team next season so that's why i was talking about 35 year old Nash. I don't like comparing players like we can exactly know the truth that nonsense is for NBA twitter and guys like Skip. You guys can say Nash was in a better spot with that Suns team, i can say he played for Terry Porter and without Amare half of that year in a slower pace. Nothing exactly proves our point. Different years, different teammates,different opponents. We can't time travel and put Nash on our roster or vice versa for Paul.

BTW I wasn't even saying Nash is better or anything like that Paul is definitely a way better defensive player and i can understand if someone prefers Paul over Nash as a player. If we get CP3 i hope he kicks ass whole year and become a success for the Suns but i'd prefer Nash at the same age for the next year if i had the chance that's all.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3949 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:05 pm

LukasBMW wrote:This just screams of classic Robert Sarver impatience. We got lucky with getting Nash to hold up for so long. That's is VERY rare and was probably due in large part to our incredible training staff (which Sarver ran out of town).

I'm not a Rubio fan, and I'm all for upgrading him, but I think we forget just how well Oubre played at times last year.

Additionally, making a move based only on our bubble play is so stupid. The bubble absolutely boosted stats for some players as playing in a empty gym instead in front of a huge crowd can really skew some stats. I love Bridges but let's see how he plays when things return to normal before we hand him 40mpg a game at the 3 position.

Finally, if we are giving away Oubre, #10, and Rubio, we better be getting back a PG that is under 32 so he fits with the timeline.
Ok who's this pg you can get with that package?

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3950 » by Kerrsed » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:10 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:This just screams of classic Robert Sarver impatience. We got lucky with getting Nash to hold up for so long. That's is VERY rare and was probably due in large part to our incredible training staff (which Sarver ran out of town).

I'm not a Rubio fan, and I'm all for upgrading him, but I think we forget just how well Oubre played at times last year.

Additionally, making a move based only on our bubble play is so stupid. The bubble absolutely boosted stats for some players as playing in a empty gym instead in front of a huge crowd can really skew some stats. I love Bridges but let's see how he plays when things return to normal before we hand him 40mpg a game at the 3 position.

Finally, if we are giving away Oubre, #10, and Rubio, we better be getting back a PG that is under 32 so he fits with the timeline.
Ok who's this pg you can get with that package?

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This guy, but i dont think it would be a good move at all and would rather just keep Rubio.

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3951 » by BobbieL » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:11 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
The second one with Bertans? Or is there a newer one? I didn't really think his Bertans for $12-13 million a year was an astute take.


https://thefourpointplay.substack.com/p/vol-1-iss-14-what-about-chris-paul

Im a fan of #2, which also somehow comes out to be the cheapest of the 3.

Image


Yeah that's about what I figured when I figured Gallinari might come, and we keep the pick, so that would be a nice roster for a year or two if Paul and Gallinari stay healthy.


I would take the second option today. I just hope the Suns keep the 10th pick. But if you could get Paul, Gallo and a combo of those role players
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3952 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:19 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:This just screams of classic Robert Sarver impatience. We got lucky with getting Nash to hold up for so long. That's is VERY rare and was probably due in large part to our incredible training staff (which Sarver ran out of town).

I'm not a Rubio fan, and I'm all for upgrading him, but I think we forget just how well Oubre played at times last year.

Additionally, making a move based only on our bubble play is so stupid. The bubble absolutely boosted stats for some players as playing in a empty gym instead in front of a huge crowd can really skew some stats. I love Bridges but let's see how he plays when things return to normal before we hand him 40mpg a game at the 3 position.

Finally, if we are giving away Oubre, #10, and Rubio, we better be getting back a PG that is under 32 so he fits with the timeline.
Ok who's this pg you can get with that package?

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This guy, but i dont think it would be a good move at all and would rather just keep Rubio.

Spoiler:
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They wouldn't trade him for that package. Now I'm very willing to trade him in our dynasty league though :)

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3953 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:49 pm

BobbieL wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
https://thefourpointplay.substack.com/p/vol-1-iss-14-what-about-chris-paul

Im a fan of #2, which also somehow comes out to be the cheapest of the 3.

Image


Yeah that's about what I figured when I figured Gallinari might come, and we keep the pick, so that would be a nice roster for a year or two if Paul and Gallinari stay healthy.


I would take the second option today. I just hope the Suns keep the 10th pick. But if you could get Paul, Gallo and a combo of those role players


Me too, but there is almost zero chance we'd get all those guys. Bellinelli for the minimum? I think I might like option 3 better anyway. Much better 1 and 5 backups along with Bane and Josh Hart.

I don't trust our team to be too good if Paul misses 15-20 games with Payne coming in. But Augustin I think would be a fine backup when need be..yes, a big dropoff from Paul, but not a guy who no team wanted and was cut by multiple teams thinking he wasn't an NBA caliber player.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3954 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:52 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Ok who's this pg you can get with that package?

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This guy, but i dont think it would be a good move at all and would rather just keep Rubio.

Spoiler:
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They wouldn't trade him for that package. Now I'm very willing to trade him in our dynasty league though :)

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Is that Kemba? Chris Paul is WAY better than Kemba and we'd be better than with Kemba the next year or two. Why wouldn't that deal be worth Kemba when it's worth Paul and Paul is so much better? Boston would be so much better with Paul too. They should absolutely trade Kemba for him so they'd be better for a year or two.

There was someone on the GB arguing that Rubio is a better fit in Boston than Kemba because you don't need a shoot first PG when Tatum is your main option and Brown is ready to be your second option...he made pretty good points...seems like it was a pretty good poster, though I don't remember for sure.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3955 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:02 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
This guy, but i dont think it would be a good move at all and would rather just keep Rubio.

Spoiler:
Image
They wouldn't trade him for that package. Now I'm very willing to trade him in our dynasty league though :)

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Is that Kemba? Chris Paul is WAY better than Kemba and we'd be better than with Kemba the next year or two. Why wouldn't that deal be worth Kemba when it's worth Paul and Paul is so much better? Boston would be so much better with Paul too. They should absolutely trade Kemba for him so they'd be better for a year or two.

There was someone on the GB arguing that Rubio is a better fit in Boston than Kemba because you don't need a shoot first PG when Tatum is your main option and Brown is ready to be your second option...he made pretty good points...seems like it was a pretty good poster, though I don't remember for sure.
I just doubt that's the type of deal boston would be looking for if they move Kemba. This deal wouldn't land Paul if OKC wasn't in rebuild mode. Context of situation matters.

I shouldn't say this and tank my kemba market but I'm a little concerned with that mysterious knee injury he had last year.

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3956 » by MathiasPW » Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:02 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
Well, instead of TALKING about comparing stats of two 35 year olds when one hasnt hit that age quite yet so you only provide stats from one side, why dont we just take stats from both of them at 34?

Image

I'd say offensively it was pretty close. Nash has the better percentages, but they are all awfully close except 3PT%. Nash with more assists (More turnovers as well). CP3 scoring more, rebounding more, collecting more steals. Defensively it isnt even close. 1.4 DBPM vs -2.1. Thats a HUGE difference and highlights Nash's complete lack of defense.


Paul is better. Nash was awesome in his peak for 5-6 years, but he also had the perfect situation with D'antoni's offense, before the league was prepared for it, had the perfect finisher in Amare, a phenomenal defensive wing in Marion, and surrounded by 3 pt shooters. Nash was better on offense but Paul is far far better on the other side, and still makes a huge impact on the offensive sid of the ball.


Exactly. I was waiting to be attacked for this post before i brought up Dantoni and the taylor-made offense he created strictly for Nash, but you beat me to it. CP3 had some ok players at best on that OKC team (Gallo being the top guy), and somehow he still averaged about 8 assists. He puts in a ton of work to get guys good open shots.
CP3 has a much longer career than just that OKC run, though. He's never gone too far with the Clippers or Pelicans, as well.
You can argue about team quality and harsher competition and whatever, but fact is he has never gone very far for a team-impact kind of player.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3957 » by Kerrsed » Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:11 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
This guy, but i dont think it would be a good move at all and would rather just keep Rubio.

Spoiler:
Image
They wouldn't trade him for that package. Now I'm very willing to trade him in our dynasty league though :)

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Is that Kemba? Chris Paul is WAY better than Kemba and we'd be better than with Kemba the next year or two. Why wouldn't that deal be worth Kemba when it's worth Paul and Paul is so much better? Boston would be so much better with Paul too. They should absolutely trade Kemba for him so they'd be better for a year or two.

There was someone on the GB arguing that Rubio is a better fit in Boston than Kemba because you don't need a shoot first PG when Tatum is your main option and Brown is ready to be your second option...he made pretty good points...seems like it was a pretty good poster, though I don't remember for sure.


Ive actually read a lot of people from Boston mentioning the idea of moving on from Kemba. His defense has been really bad, and just like you mentioned, they spoke about the need to get away from using a shoot first PG and going with a guy that will facilitate the team and make the other players better. Seen a handful of trades on the Trade Board where it was Celtics trading away Kemba and ending up with Rubio. Thats exactly why i posted him and said what i said.

Thats not even factoring in the mysterious knee injury that has kept me away from making an off for him in the Fantasy League.

Boston needs and is looking for that PG that they won titles with. Looking for that Rondo player, and Rubio is probably the closest thing to that in the current NBA.
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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3958 » by MathiasPW » Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:12 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Arguing nash vs Paul is like arguing what supermodel is hotter. Kind of pointless and just appreciate they both are hot


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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3959 » by MathiasPW » Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:13 pm

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Re: 2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes 

Post#3960 » by nevetsov » Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:16 pm

Paul, Payne, Lecque
Booker, Carter
Bridges
Johnson, Saric
Ayton

Paul good friends with any Wings or C's?

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