Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Los Angeles Clippers

[bwgood77]

Still behind KJ and Amare for me.
Young KJ was the best player on WCF teams while getting 20/10.

Yeah, I was wondering who he had him behind after first sentence. I would say Marion too and many would say Walter Davis and maybe Alvan Adams.

Those guys all went to championships except Amare, Nash and Marion who were in the WCF 2 or 3 times. Marion leads the Suns in WS I think.

Booker might be best pure scorer, depending on thoughts on Amare, Nash and Davis. Nash was probably better shooter. Amare needed to be set up, so not him..don't remember Davis much. KJ could score from anywhere inside the arc though.

Now for best player we've had in first 5 years in career, I only put him behind KJ..but KJ started to go downhill after the next few years. But KJ was a 20-22pts/10-12ast guy shooting 50% from the field and 90% from the line his first 2nd -5th years and led us to knock out the defending champion Lakers in 5 in the Western Conf Semi finals in his 3rd year.....and get to the WCF to lose to the Lakers in his 2nd year....this after winning like 28 games the year before. You can't compare that at all to scoring a lot of points while winning mid 20 games every year.

Booker can maybe get close to those guys if he leads us to WCF or finals and pass them if we can win a championship or if he is MVP and we get to WCF a couple times. Still long way to go though.

I think if you sub Booker for KJ on that early 90's team, Booker would be even better. His supporting cast would be much better than what he's had now, and he'd still be playing SG with Hornacek as the PG (which is what he was before the trade for KJ)....the two of them in the backcourt, with that kind of shooting, would be deadly.

No chance in my opinion. That team went from 28 to 55 wins after trading their best player for KJ and he gets to the WCF finals two years in a row in his first two full years starting (years 2 and 3)..he knocked out the defending champion Lakers in 5.

He was the key to that team. Did you REALLY watch KJ a lot during that time...it was crazy. I still don't think anything has matched it, other than maybe Nash and the 04-05 team, but that was a very experienced savvy Nash, in a very new innovative offense, and he had a better supporting cast....as good as Chambers, young Majerle and the rest were, they were not Joe Johnson that year (who shot like 48% from 3 and then we let him go), Marion and Amare.

Booker doesn't or didn't have nearly the impact KJ did, even in year 5 compared to year 2 or 3 for KJ. His numbers might look better on offense, but KJ could easily get 15-20 assists or score 40 based on what was needed.

I really wish we could watch HD KJ games...I think even the 88-92 teams were more fun to watch than the 93-96 teams...they won the same # of games the previous 4 years without Barkley as the 4 with him, and it was KJ's 2nd-5th years.

If anyone put up KJ's 2nd year #s these days it would be crazy. Doncic probably is close, and can hit the 3 better, but is not as good of a defender or has as many assists, but of course most consider Doncic a top 10 player already...that's about the only guy in the last 10 years who put up those types of #s in his second year. Ja is good, but he won't do that.

I think this is recency bias...Booker is our best player in a long time...no denying that, but those teams that instantly went to the WCF...KJ who took mostly decent role players there and dominated Magic, who most consider a top 5 player of all time, still basically in his prime, and the team was stacked, a defending champ..is crazy.

[cberry78]

Yeah, I was wondering who he had him behind after first sentence. I would say Marion too and many would say Walter Davis and maybe Alvan Adams.

Those guys all went to championships except Amare, Nash and Marion who were in the WCF 2 or 3 times. Marion leads the Suns in WS I think.

Booker might be best pure scorer, depending on thoughts on Amare, Nash and Davis. Nash was probably better shooter. Amare needed to be set up, so not him..don't remember Davis much. KJ could score from anywhere inside the arc though.

Now for best player we've had in first 5 years in career, I only put him behind KJ..but KJ started to go downhill after the next few years. But KJ was a 20-22pts/10-12ast guy shooting 50% from the field and 90% from the line his first 2nd -5th years and led us to knock out the defending champion Lakers in 5 in the Western Conf Semi finals in his 3rd year.....and get to the WCF to lose to the Lakers in his 2nd year....this after winning like 28 games the year before. You can't compare that at all to scoring a lot of points while winning mid 20 games every year.

Booker can maybe get close to those guys if he leads us to WCF or finals and pass them if we can win a championship or if he is MVP and we get to WCF a couple times. Still long way to go though.

I think if you sub Booker for KJ on that early 90's team, Booker would be even better. His supporting cast would be much better than what he's had now, and he'd still be playing SG with Hornacek as the PG (which is what he was before the trade for KJ)....the two of them in the backcourt, with that kind of shooting, would be deadly.

No chance in my opinion. That team went from 28 to 55 wins after trading their best player for KJ and he gets to the WCF finals two years in a row in his first two full years starting (years 2 and 3)..he knocked out the defending champion Lakers in 5.

He was the key to that team. Did you REALLY watch KJ a lot during that time...it was crazy. I still don't think anything has matched it, other than maybe Nash and the 04-05 team, but that was a very experienced savvy Nash, in a very new innovative offense, and he had a better supporting cast....as good as Chambers, young Majerle and the rest were, they were not Joe Johnson that year (who shot like 48% from 3 and then we let him go), Marion and Amare.

Booker doesn't or didn't have nearly the impact KJ did, even in year 5 compared to year 2 or 3 for KJ. His numbers might look better on offense, but KJ could easily get 15-20 assists or score 40 based on what was needed.

I really wish we could watch HD KJ games...I think even the 88-92 teams were more fun to watch than the 93-96 teams...they won the same # of games the previous 4 years without Barkley as the 4 with him, and it was KJ's 2nd-5th years.

If anyone put up KJ's 2nd year #s these days it would be crazy. Doncic probably is close, and can hit the 3 better, but is not as good of a defender or has as many assists, but of course most consider Doncic a top 10 player already...that's about the only guy in the last 10 years who put up those types of #s in his second year. Ja is good, but he won't do that.

I think this is recency bias...Booker is our best player in a long time...no denying that, but those teams that instantly went to the WCF...KJ who took mostly decent role players there and dominated Magic, who most consider a top 5 player of all time, still basically in his prime, and the team was stacked, a defending champ..is crazy.

I'm just gonna say agree to disagree here, and KJ is one of my all-time favorite players.

I grew up watching those terrible Suns teams of the late '80s, and I think it was the combination of a second-year KJ and the signing of Chambers that led to the 55 win improvement. This is why I said that KJ's supporting cast was MUCH better than anything Booker has had....Chambers, EJ, Horny, Majerle, Corbin, Gattison, even West (how many of those are in the ring of honor?), were probably better than anyone that Booker has played with (prior to this season - and rookie DA - how many of those even have a chance at the ring of honor?)

It's also worth noting that KJ played 4 years of college ball as the starting PG, and that has a huge effect on how much impact most players have on their NBA teams.

[bwgood77]

I think if you sub Booker for KJ on that early 90's team, Booker would be even better. His supporting cast would be much better than what he's had now, and he'd still be playing SG with Hornacek as the PG (which is what he was before the trade for KJ)....the two of them in the backcourt, with that kind of shooting, would be deadly.

No chance in my opinion. That team went from 28 to 55 wins after trading their best player for KJ and he gets to the WCF finals two years in a row in his first two full years starting (years 2 and 3)..he knocked out the defending champion Lakers in 5.

He was the key to that team. Did you REALLY watch KJ a lot during that time...it was crazy. I still don't think anything has matched it, other than maybe Nash and the 04-05 team, but that was a very experienced savvy Nash, in a very new innovative offense, and he had a better supporting cast....as good as Chambers, young Majerle and the rest were, they were not Joe Johnson that year (who shot like 48% from 3 and then we let him go), Marion and Amare.

Booker doesn't or didn't have nearly the impact KJ did, even in year 5 compared to year 2 or 3 for KJ. His numbers might look better on offense, but KJ could easily get 15-20 assists or score 40 based on what was needed.

I really wish we could watch HD KJ games...I think even the 88-92 teams were more fun to watch than the 93-96 teams...they won the same # of games the previous 4 years without Barkley as the 4 with him, and it was KJ's 2nd-5th years.

If anyone put up KJ's 2nd year #s these days it would be crazy. Doncic probably is close, and can hit the 3 better, but is not as good of a defender or has as many assists, but of course most consider Doncic a top 10 player already...that's about the only guy in the last 10 years who put up those types of #s in his second year. Ja is good, but he won't do that.

I think this is recency bias...Booker is our best player in a long time...no denying that, but those teams that instantly went to the WCF...KJ who took mostly decent role players there and dominated Magic, who most consider a top 5 player of all time, still basically in his prime, and the team was stacked, a defending champ..is crazy.

I'm just gonna say agree to disagree here, and KJ is one of my all-time favorite players.

I grew up watching those terrible Suns teams of the late '80s, and I think it was the combination of a second-year KJ and the signing of Chambers that led to the 55 win improvement. This is why I said that KJ's supporting cast was MUCH better than anything Booker has had....Chambers, EJ, Horny, Majerle, Corbin, Gattison, even West (how many of those are in the ring of honor?), were probably better than anyone that Booker has played with (prior to this season - and rookie DA - how many of those even have a chance at the ring of honor?)

It's also worth noting that KJ played 4 years of college ball as the starting PG, and that has a huge effect on how much impact most players have on their NBA teams.

That was obviously a better supporting cast...much better than what Booker has ever had..this year might be somewhat close, but the difference between a 30 win team and a 55 win team that makes the WCF and beats the defending champs is massive, even with better players. KJ was the catalyst. Bill Walton said he had surpassed Magic in that series we beat them in 5...this is the defending champs who swept us in KJ's 2nd year in the WCF...Magic is a top 5 or at worst top 10 player ever, and he was still in his prime...then Worthy, Scott, and a stacked team...I would bet they were VERY heavily favored and we beat them in 5.

Booker really isn't close, even if you compare Book's year 5 vs KJ's year 2 or 3. Do you view Book as a bigger impact player than Nash? KJ and Nash made EVERYONE better because the defense would cave, especially with KJ, because he had such a quick first step and could pull up after running full speed and nail a shot from the FT line....then if they caved too much, he was the best at no look passes, and this is early in his career.

I am really really surprised if you watched them both that you think Booker is already better than KJ was in his prime, which was early. Booker may get there, but no way for me yet. And the NBA is FAR FAR easier to score than it was back then due to defensive rules.

[cberry78]

No chance in my opinion. That team went from 28 to 55 wins after trading their best player for KJ and he gets to the WCF finals two years in a row in his first two full years starting (years 2 and 3)..he knocked out the defending champion Lakers in 5.

He was the key to that team. Did you REALLY watch KJ a lot during that time...it was crazy. I still don't think anything has matched it, other than maybe Nash and the 04-05 team, but that was a very experienced savvy Nash, in a very new innovative offense, and he had a better supporting cast....as good as Chambers, young Majerle and the rest were, they were not Joe Johnson that year (who shot like 48% from 3 and then we let him go), Marion and Amare.

Booker doesn't or didn't have nearly the impact KJ did, even in year 5 compared to year 2 or 3 for KJ. His numbers might look better on offense, but KJ could easily get 15-20 assists or score 40 based on what was needed.

I really wish we could watch HD KJ games...I think even the 88-92 teams were more fun to watch than the 93-96 teams...they won the same # of games the previous 4 years without Barkley as the 4 with him, and it was KJ's 2nd-5th years.

If anyone put up KJ's 2nd year #s these days it would be crazy. Doncic probably is close, and can hit the 3 better, but is not as good of a defender or has as many assists, but of course most consider Doncic a top 10 player already...that's about the only guy in the last 10 years who put up those types of #s in his second year. Ja is good, but he won't do that.

I think this is recency bias...Booker is our best player in a long time...no denying that, but those teams that instantly went to the WCF...KJ who took mostly decent role players there and dominated Magic, who most consider a top 5 player of all time, still basically in his prime, and the team was stacked, a defending champ..is crazy.

I'm just gonna say agree to disagree here, and KJ is one of my all-time favorite players.

I grew up watching those terrible Suns teams of the late '80s, and I think it was the combination of a second-year KJ and the signing of Chambers that led to the 55 win improvement. This is why I said that KJ's supporting cast was MUCH better than anything Booker has had....Chambers, EJ, Horny, Majerle, Corbin, Gattison, even West (how many of those are in the ring of honor?), were probably better than anyone that Booker has played with (prior to this season - and rookie DA - how many of those even have a chance at the ring of honor?)

It's also worth noting that KJ played 4 years of college ball as the starting PG, and that has a huge effect on how much impact most players have on their NBA teams.

That was obviously a better supporting cast...much better than what Booker has ever had..this year might be somewhat close, but the difference between a 30 win team and a 55 win team that makes the WCF and beats the defending champs is massive, even with better players. KJ was the catalyst. Bill Walton said he had surpassed Magic in that series we beat them in 5...this is the defending champs who swept us in KJ's 2nd year in the WCF...Magic is a top 5 or at worst top 10 player ever, and he was still in his prime...then Worthy, Scott, and a stacked team...I would bet they were VERY heavily favored and we beat them in 5.

Booker really isn't close, even if you compare Book's year 5 vs KJ's year 2 or 3. Do you view Book as a bigger impact player than Nash? KJ and Nash made EVERYONE better because the defense would cave, especially with KJ, because he had such a quick first step and could pull up after running full speed and nail a shot from the FT line....then if they caved too much, he was the best at no look passes, and this is early in his career.

I am really really surprised if you watched them both that you think Booker is already better than KJ was in his prime, which was early. Booker may get there, but no way for me yet. And the NBA is FAR FAR easier to score than it was back then due to defensive rules.

Actually I never said that Booker was better than KJ, what I said in my original post was that if you replace Booker with KJ on that team, Booker would have been better. Hornacek was a more than serviceable PG before KJ got there, and he (Hornacek) was a better PG than anyone that Booker has played with prior to this year. With the kind of supporting cast that was on that '88 Suns team, I think that Booker would have put up better numbers (not assists, obviously) than KJ.

[bwgood77]

I'm just gonna say agree to disagree here, and KJ is one of my all-time favorite players.

I grew up watching those terrible Suns teams of the late '80s, and I think it was the combination of a second-year KJ and the signing of Chambers that led to the 55 win improvement. This is why I said that KJ's supporting cast was MUCH better than anything Booker has had....Chambers, EJ, Horny, Majerle, Corbin, Gattison, even West (how many of those are in the ring of honor?), were probably better than anyone that Booker has played with (prior to this season - and rookie DA - how many of those even have a chance at the ring of honor?)

It's also worth noting that KJ played 4 years of college ball as the starting PG, and that has a huge effect on how much impact most players have on their NBA teams.

That was obviously a better supporting cast...much better than what Booker has ever had..this year might be somewhat close, but the difference between a 30 win team and a 55 win team that makes the WCF and beats the defending champs is massive, even with better players. KJ was the catalyst. Bill Walton said he had surpassed Magic in that series we beat them in 5...this is the defending champs who swept us in KJ's 2nd year in the WCF...Magic is a top 5 or at worst top 10 player ever, and he was still in his prime...then Worthy, Scott, and a stacked team...I would bet they were VERY heavily favored and we beat them in 5.

Booker really isn't close, even if you compare Book's year 5 vs KJ's year 2 or 3. Do you view Book as a bigger impact player than Nash? KJ and Nash made EVERYONE better because the defense would cave, especially with KJ, because he had such a quick first step and could pull up after running full speed and nail a shot from the FT line....then if they caved too much, he was the best at no look passes, and this is early in his career.

I am really really surprised if you watched them both that you think Booker is already better than KJ was in his prime, which was early. Booker may get there, but no way for me yet. And the NBA is FAR FAR easier to score than it was back then due to defensive rules.

Actually I never said that Booker was better than KJ, what I said in my original post was that if you replace Booker with KJ on that team, Booker would have been better. Hornacek was a more than serviceable PG before KJ got there, and he (Hornacek) was a better PG than anyone that Booker has played with prior to this year. With the kind of supporting cast that was on that '88 Suns team, I think that Booker would have put up better numbers (not assists, obviously) than KJ.

I guess it depends on how you define numbers...he may have scored more, and maybe, slightly as a higher percentage, but he wouldn't have the assists he does now I don't think. Hornacek is underrated, and they often both had high assist #s. I just think when it comes to impact and taking the team far, there wouldn't be much of a comparison.

[sasquatchBob]

That shot deserved two things:

Mike Breen (granted not a three ball): BANG!!!

Mark Jackson: Mamma there goes that Man - Devin Booker!!

I would add a 3rd and say Kevin Harlan: GOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!

What about the Clippers‘ legendary long time announcer Ralph Lawler, one of the most likable guys in the game, with his iconic „Oh me, oh my!“...really sad when he retired last season after 40 (!) years in the job, at the age of 80.

Is that the "Bingo!" guy?

[LesGrossman]

I would add a 3rd and say Kevin Harlan: GOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!

What about the Clippers‘ legendary long time announcer Ralph Lawler, one of the most likable guys in the game, with his iconic „Oh me, oh my!“...really sad when he retired last season after 40 (!) years in the job, at the age of 80.

Is that the "Bingo!" guy?

Yes, and he did it regardless of who scored, not only for his „home“ team.

[bwgood77]

I would add a 3rd and say Kevin Harlan: GOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!

What about the Clippers‘ legendary long time announcer Ralph Lawler, one of the most likable guys in the game, with his iconic „Oh me, oh my!“...really sad when he retired last season after 40 (!) years in the job, at the age of 80.

Is that the "Bingo!" guy?

That made me think of this..

Watch on YouTube

[LesGrossman]

What about the Clippers‘ legendary long time announcer Ralph Lawler, one of the most likable guys in the game, with his iconic „Oh me, oh my!“...really sad when he retired last season after 40 (!) years in the job, at the age of 80.

Is that the "Bingo!" guy?

That made me think of this..

Watch on YouTube

He's also the guy who invented "First to 100 wins - its the law!"

[Dual]

I'm just gonna say agree to disagree here, and KJ is one of my all-time favorite players.

I grew up watching those terrible Suns teams of the late '80s, and I think it was the combination of a second-year KJ and the signing of Chambers that led to the 55 win improvement. This is why I said that KJ's supporting cast was MUCH better than anything Booker has had....Chambers, EJ, Horny, Majerle, Corbin, Gattison, even West (how many of those are in the ring of honor?), were probably better than anyone that Booker has played with (prior to this season - and rookie DA - how many of those even have a chance at the ring of honor?)

It's also worth noting that KJ played 4 years of college ball as the starting PG, and that has a huge effect on how much impact most players have on their NBA teams.

That was obviously a better supporting cast...much better than what Booker has ever had..this year might be somewhat close, but the difference between a 30 win team and a 55 win team that makes the WCF and beats the defending champs is massive, even with better players. KJ was the catalyst. Bill Walton said he had surpassed Magic in that series we beat them in 5...this is the defending champs who swept us in KJ's 2nd year in the WCF...Magic is a top 5 or at worst top 10 player ever, and he was still in his prime...then Worthy, Scott, and a stacked team...I would bet they were VERY heavily favored and we beat them in 5.

Booker really isn't close, even if you compare Book's year 5 vs KJ's year 2 or 3. Do you view Book as a bigger impact player than Nash? KJ and Nash made EVERYONE better because the defense would cave, especially with KJ, because he had such a quick first step and could pull up after running full speed and nail a shot from the FT line....then if they caved too much, he was the best at no look passes, and this is early in his career.

I am really really surprised if you watched them both that you think Booker is already better than KJ was in his prime, which was early. Booker may get there, but no way for me yet. And the NBA is FAR FAR easier to score than it was back then due to defensive rules.

Actually I never said that Booker was better than KJ, what I said in my original post was that if you replace Booker with KJ on that team, Booker would have been better. Hornacek was a more than serviceable PG before KJ got there, and he (Hornacek) was a better PG than anyone that Booker has played with prior to this year. With the kind of supporting cast that was on that '88 Suns team, I think that Booker would have put up better numbers (not assists, obviously) than KJ.

Totally off topic but that reminds me that when I was a teenager I had a poster of KJ at my room. I was always practicing his running mid-range jumper. We are pretty old hahaha.