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If Payne keeps this up, I'm guessing he gets a deal like Melton got. 4 years 36mil ish.

jcsunsfan wrote:Would it not be fantastic if Cam Payne becomes our own VanVleet type story. The difference is that he could be ready to take over when CP3 hangs em up. Or they just switch roles where Cam starts and Paul comes off the bench. Not predicting, just thinking. Not sure Cam can get to that level, probably not. However, he is the third best pg we have had on this team in many years.

He is better than everyone except Rubio and Paul.

Yes, of course it would be great. I don't think he is better than Dragic was for us...3rd team all NBA leading us to 48 wins with not so great players. Bledsoe also was probably more impressive as a backup for the Clips than what Payne has done (and it's only 4 games). Bledsoe was mostly solid for us too and I can't in good faith put Payne ahead of him...at least not yet...not my favorite player but he was a mid level starting PG in the league.

However, VanVleet starts in his 2nd/3rd season. I would really be interested if Paul is out to see Cam Payne start and see how he does. If he can play as well as he has against starters (and I know there are some plays against some starters, like guarding Zion, which were impressive), but just going against the big time starters like LeBron, Kawhi, etc, would be interesting to see.

What are the options to resign Cam Payne?

I think we only have his early bird rights.

Crives wrote:What are the options to resign Cam Payne?

I think we only have his early bird rights.

We'll have the MLE too

lilfishi22 wrote:

Crives wrote:What are the options to resign Cam Payne?

I think we only have his early bird rights.

We'll have the MLE too

I am worried MLE won’t be enough

Crives wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:

Crives wrote:What are the options to resign Cam Payne?

I think we only have his early bird rights.

We'll have the MLE too

I am worried MLE won’t be enough

How much do you think someone will want to pay him? That's about the highest a backup PG gets..the best ones. I don't think anyone is going to want him as a starter.

I'll be surprised if he makes the MLE.

Crives wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:

Crives wrote:What are the options to resign Cam Payne?

I think we only have his early bird rights.

We'll have the MLE too

I am worried MLE won’t be enough

He will not get THAT much.

Jae Crowder is an starter who has shown his value on winning teams multiple times and he is getting the full MLE.

I am the first one that thinks that Cam Payne is gonna get a solid long term contract next season, but to get over the MLE he would need to play amazing basketball all season long. I can't see it.

bwgood77 wrote:

Crives wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:We'll have the MLE too

I am worried MLE won’t be enough

How much do you think someone will want to pay him? That's about the highest a backup PG gets..the best ones. I don't think anyone is going to want him as a starter.

I'll be surprised if he makes the MLE.

I mean, if Cam ends the season 40%+ from three with solid defense, and continues to be efficient driving to the rim... I would get worried about a team coming in with an offer in 12m per year range. Especially because other teams would know we could not match.

Crives wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:

Crives wrote:
I am worried MLE won’t be enough

How much do you think someone will want to pay him? That's about the highest a backup PG gets..the best ones. I don't think anyone is going to want him as a starter.

I'll be surprised if he makes the MLE.

I mean, if Cam ends the season 40%+ from three with solid defense, and continues to be efficient driving to the rim... I would get worried about a team coming in with an offer in 12m per year range. Especially because other teams would know we could not match.

You'd have to find a team willing for him to start or a team willing to make him the highest paid backup in the NBA. The only teams that can afford that are young teams with a bunch of guys on rookie contracts including a rookie PG...Melton (ATL) and Tyus Jones (MEM) are probably the highest. Melton isn't even used as a PG anymore though, but more of a defensive specialist to play next to Trae Young at times since he's one of the worst defensive guards...it was an overpayment though..he's only played in one game. Think kind of an Andre Roberson player. They will probably try to work on his 3 though and if he hits that he would be a solid 3D player.

Tyus Jones backs up Morant and has one of the best ast/to ratios in the league the last few years...a far more proven track record, however, Payne, in his 6 games so far measures favorably to Tyus last year per 36 #s. Tyus is a solid shooter, but Cam has been better. I will be surprised if long term, Cam shoots THIS good from 3, but he is keeping it up. Part of it is likely due to no real scouting report on him.

He does have a similar ast/to ratio as Tyus though. Tyus was over 5/1 last year and Payne is a tad over 4.1. Defense is probably similar. Payne has a better rating, and Jones is better with steals, etc.

Still very limited sample size of good play....a lot bigger sample size of very subpar play, but there isn't a big reason not to trust the vast improvement as it continues outside of maybe teams not putting much focus on him yet and having the limited scouting report.

Both those guys make slightly below the MLE. Augustin is probably the most experienced proven backup and he makes close to the MLE too...but the Bucks were also pretty desperate to put quality vets around Giannis to keep him.

The positive things are: Payne doesn't have a long term proven track record. It's like playing a rookie who was almost out of the league who came back and played solid in limited minutes a lot of money. Secondly, I think he LOVES the team, that Monty gave him a chance, and all that, and for a guy like him, $5 million will be a ton of money after not being guaranteed much at all.

I think something like 3/21 would be fair, with maybe a team option in the 3rd year. If he continues a high level of play, particularly if he ever gets starting minutes, possibly more.

But I am still hard pressed to say he's worth even that much after a 6 game sample size....and maybe I would count 2-3 more from the bubble...the rest are closer to preseason type games or less...but still counts some given the solid play.

bwgood77 wrote:

Crives wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:
How much do you think someone will want to pay him? That's about the highest a backup PG gets..the best ones. I don't think anyone is going to want him as a starter.

I'll be surprised if he makes the MLE.

I mean, if Cam ends the season 40%+ from three with solid defense, and continues to be efficient driving to the rim... I would get worried about a team coming in with an offer in 12m per year range. Especially because other teams would know we could not match.

You'd have to find a team willing for him to start or a team willing to make him the highest paid backup in the NBA. The only teams that can afford that are young teams with a bunch of guys on rookie contracts including a rookie PG...Melton (ATL) and Tyus Jones (MEM) are probably the highest. Melton isn't even used as a PG anymore though, but more of a defensive specialist to play next to Trae Young at times since he's one of the worst defensive guards...it was an overpayment though..he's only played in one game. Think kind of an Andre Roberson player. They will probably try to work on his 3 though and if he hits that he would be a solid 3D player.

Tyus Jones backs up Morant and has one of the best ast/to ratios in the league the last few years...a far more proven track record, however, Payne, in his 6 games so far measures favorably to Tyus last year per 36 #s. Tyus is a solid shooter, but Cam has been better. I will be surprised if long term, Cam shoots THIS good from 3, but he is keeping it up. Part of it is likely due to no real scouting report on him.

He does have a similar ast/to ratio as Tyus though. Tyus was over 5/1 last year and Payne is a tad over 4.1. Defense is probably similar. Payne has a better rating, and Jones is better with steals, etc.

Still very limited sample size of good play....a lot bigger sample size of very subpar play, but there isn't a big reason not to trust the vast improvement as it continues outside of maybe teams not putting much focus on him yet and having the limited scouting report.

Both those guys make slightly below the MLE. Augustin is probably the most experienced proven backup and he makes close to the MLE too...but the Bucks were also pretty desperate to put quality vets around Giannis to keep him.

The positive things are: Payne doesn't have a long term proven track record. It's like playing a rookie who was almost out of the league who came back and played solid in limited minutes a lot of money. Secondly, I think he LOVES the team, that Monty gave him a chance, and all that, and for a guy like him, $5 million will be a ton of money after not being guaranteed much at all.

I think something like 3/21 would be fair, with maybe a team option in the 3rd year. If he continues a high level of play, particularly if he ever gets starting minutes, possibly more.

But I am still hard pressed to say he's worth even that much after a 6 game sample size....and maybe I would count 2-3 more from the bubble...the rest are closer to preseason type games or less...but still counts some given the solid play.

Monte Morris is commonly referred to as the best backup PG in the league, and he got 3/27... So i'd be surprised to see anyone offer Payne anything more than that. You never know I suppose, but even though Payne has been great and valuable, he still has a lot to prove over a whole season. Good luck to him.

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This kid’s been my favorite player this season as I like to root for the underdog player. Even when his shot’s not falling, he’s doing so many of the little things.

He’s actually only 25 yrs old so if continues this trajectory continues then who is to say he can’t take over for CP3 as the starting PG in the future.

Revived wrote:This kid’s been my favorite player this season as I like to root for the underdog player. Even when his shot’s not falling, he’s doing so many of the little things.

He’s actually only 25 yrs old so if continues this trajectory continues then who is to say he can’t take over for CP3 as the starting PG in the future.

26, but that's fine...guys like Lowry and Dragic didn't really step it up until really quality legit starting PGs until the age of 27.

bwgood77 wrote:

Revived wrote:This kid’s been my favorite player this season as I like to root for the underdog player. Even when his shot’s not falling, he’s doing so many of the little things.

He’s actually only 25 yrs old so if continues this trajectory continues then who is to say he can’t take over for CP3 as the starting PG in the future.

26, but that's fine...guys like Lowry and Dragic didn't really step it up until really quality legit starting PGs until the age of 27.

Oh wow yeah, you’re right. He was selected a pick after Booker in his draft but he had a longer college tenure.

Revived wrote:This kid’s been my favorite player this season as I like to root for the underdog player. Even when his shot’s not falling, he’s doing so many of the little things.

He’s actually only 25 yrs old so if continues this trajectory continues then who is to say he can’t take over for CP3 as the starting PG in the future.

Bridges was that guy for me the first couple of seasons but now he's reached a new level as a player it's hard to call him an underdog player. But to your point, Cam has been a huge part of our team. His fit with the starters and with the bench has been seamless and that's what given us so much continuity and effectiveness between the two units. Staggering Booker and CP3 certainly helps too but Cam has been one of the core reasons we've been so good.

What's impressive to me is we're past the point where it's just a dude on a hot shooting streak, he's legitimately running the offense like a vet PG. I have no idea what he adjusted while out of the league but it worked.

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Nice little return to form there. He'd been struggling for a while.

How much does one view him as worth in FA now? Personally, after seeing Jevon Carter's regression this year, I'd be hesitant to do more than 3 year/18 million for Payne.

He's a good, scrappy change of pace bench PG, but anything more than 6 million a year would be an overpay given that he only plays 16-18 mins a game.

The major piece to add in next year's draft or free agency (through the BAE perhaps) is an upgrade on the Moore / Galloway / Carter positions. Now all those guys have their virtues, but none have consistently shown what we need from that combo guard spot. If we added a Clarkson or Dinwiddie type player in that position, I really think that'd elevate us into contenders.

The draft has an interesting bunch of players in that mould we could target with our pick - Jared Butler, David Duke, Miles McBridge, Davion Mitchell, Chris Duarte, Josh Alexander.

RedIndian wrote:Nice little return to form there. He'd been struggling for a while.

How much does one view him as worth in FA now? Personally, after seeing Jevon Carter's regression this year, I'd be hesitant to do more than 3 year/18 million for Payne.

He's a good, scrappy change of pace bench PG, but anything more than 6 million a year would be an overpay given that he only plays 16-18 mins a game.

The major piece to add in next year's draft or free agency (through the BAE perhaps) is an upgrade on the Moore / Galloway / Carter positions. Now all those guys have their virtues, but none have consistently shown what we need from that combo guard spot. If we added a Clarkson or Dinwiddie type player in that position, I really think that'd elevate us into contenders.

The draft has an interesting bunch of players in that mould we could target with our pick - Jared Butler, David Duke, Miles McBridge, Davion Mitchell, Chris Duarte, Josh Alexander.

I wouldn't pay him that much.

I think that $12M/3 years would be enough to keep him.

Payne has a really strong motor. Guys like him and Nader play at like 100% every minute their on the court and it’s a big reason why the bench has had the success it has.

I think practicing with CP3 has made him a lot better in working the pick & roll as well. He had a dime yesterday that was very CP3/Nash esque on a pick and roll which faked the entire Warriors defense out on.

I think a reason he struggled a bit and was out of rotation for sometime was largely due to that ankle/foot injury (that caused him to miss a few games) was still bothering him. He said as much in the post game yesterday as well.