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Game 70: Phoenix Suns @ Miami Heat l Sat, Aug 8th l 4:30pm l FSNAZ

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Re: Game 70: Phoenix Suns @ Miami Heat l Sat, Aug 8th l 4:30pm l FSNAZ 

Post#301 » by AtheJ415 » Sun Aug 9, 2020 9:15 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
spanishninja wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
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I was so impressed with that, even though I already knew he was a defensive bulldog. He didnt even get emotional and pick up a dumb foul trying to make up for the blocked shot
This is my favorite clip about Carter that sums him up. He's limited from a skill and size perspective but he will work and play his ass off.

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I've actually seen this presser before. That's why I was saying last week that Carter is the type of guy we could keep at the very end of the bench who would still improve despite not getting PTO. Real question is can he develop into a really good shooter and can his defensive savvy allow him to guard 2s consistently. If so, his value becomes a lot higher. With how Payne is playing right now, I'm not sure who I'd pick between the 2. Tough call.
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Re: Game 70: Phoenix Suns @ Miami Heat l Sat, Aug 8th l 4:30pm l FSNAZ 

Post#302 » by Revived » Sun Aug 9, 2020 11:25 am

This was our ugliest win of the bubble. Really proud that the team managed to get this win in a close game like this (and the few others in the bubble) because we’ve lost EIGHT times this season when the game was close (final score within 3). I really hope we can build on this.

Booker was ridiculous. You can say this about his game against the Clippers too but it remained true tonight. I didn’t see it but I think maybe Miami’s bench (Butler?) was talking trash to him early on because he was crazy locked in both offensively and defensively. Offensively he was one of the few who wasn’t scared of the big bad monster Bam in the paint and had some super nice crossovers on Herro to finish at the rim. Defensively, he really put in ton of effort. He was the only Suns player who had the game clock awareness at the end of the 1st half and ran to double Robinson knowing an extra pass would lead to time expiration. There was a possession in the 4th qtr when Bam was abusing Ayton and Booker literally looked at Ayton and tapped his own chest and said he will guard the 6’9 Bam himself. He actually got a clean strip but of course was called for a BS foul. I loved seeing this from him. He had a nice steal on that play when Bridges put back the offensive putback as well. One thing I want to add is that I’ve been watching basketball for a long time and I’ve never seen a player get more screwed by no calls on his 3pt attempts than Book. He was fouled extremely hard on his last 3pt attempt of the 3rd qtr and it was a play that he could’ve easily got injured. Igoudala gave him no space to land and cut him off entirely. But of **** course, no call. Seriously, watch this play. Look at where Igoudala lands at the end with legs between Booker’s body almost stepping on him. The funny thing is that the Heat play by play guy says immediately after this “Great defense by Igoudala” lmao but for whatever reason, I can’t get the sound on streamable to work.

https://streamable.com/3p0hia

This was Ayton’s worst defensive game of his career. Even worse than what we saw in his rookie season. I kid you not when I say Miami used Ayton in the action probably 70% of the time to score on backdoor cuts, no help defense, straight up, and any and all other ways. Probably ¾ of Herro’s points came on pick and rolls when Ayton didn’t switch or switched when he shouldn’t have. Literally the layup line for Miami because he was watching the rim waiting for the rebound in case they miss the point blank layup. The few times that he did switch, it was a half ass switch where he was caught in no man’s land basically not guarding the guy he switchd onto while not providing backdoor protection for the player that took on Bam or Olynyk (Ayton’s matchups). That play where Bam posted him down and slammed it on him with ease was just nasty. Bam looked like the #1 overall pick and Ayton did not tonight. Eric Spoelstra must think Ayton is worse than Kanter defensively for him to game plan like this. And that's scary.

Offensively he was a train wreck also. Blocked by the 6’6 DJJ who blocked him without jumping. He tried posting up Olynyk once and put up an awful Kobe fadeaway shot against Kelly freaking Olynyk. He also missed an easy offensive rebound (ball bounced right to his hands) putback against Crowder in the 4th QTR which would’ve been a huge key bucket. There was a play in which Saric gave him a decent bounce pass while he was in the post but he didn’t seal his defender and it got stolen by Olynyk. He also got rejected by the rim in the 3rd quarter because he went for the layup instead of the dunk when nobody was near him.

Before people say “oh whatever he still had 18 pts and 12 rebounds”, ask yourself how many of those Ayton actually created himself. Every basket except for one was assisted. He is literally doing what DeAndre Jordan did during Lob City Clippers and just finishing layups (instead of dunks) that Rubio, Booker etc set him up with. If the Suns had Clint Capela, I think Capela could score as much considering how many opportunities the big man gets in this offense because of all the attention that Booker draws and Rubio’s penetration attracts. It’s easy dump off passes at the rim. I will agree that Ayton is a big time upgrade on Alex Len who would drop and fumble away these easy passes.

Clint Capela averaged almost 17 pts and 13 rebounds doing nothing but finishing CP3 and Harden’s passes for layups and getting some offensive putbacks in the '18 season. This is basically Ayton’s entire offense right now if the defender guards that midrange jumper of his which is what Bam did tonight. He was literally lost offensively because of this. So Capela's offense with Kanter's defense & FT shooting is where Ayton is at right now.

I don't expect Ayton to be great on offense and great on defense. But at least be consistent and very good at one of them while being average at the other. That's exactly what Bam Adebayo is who is barely a yr older than Ayton and already elite defensively while being very good offensively. And Bam was drafted with the last pick in the lottery while Ayton was the first...

I liked Carter a lot in the 2018 pre draft and I still like him a lot now. He is the PG version of PJ Tucker. Rubio creates so many looks and reminds me of Nash so much with how he thinks two steps ahead of the defense. Saric again was the most underrated player of the night imo. He’s gone from a player I really disliked watching (along with Frank) to being someone that I appreciate because of his effort and basketball IQ. He uses great craftiness to draw fouls on mismatches and makes high iq passes. Defensively he just lacks athleticism and it’s impossible for him and Frank to play mins together because of this. I really think Monty needs to consider Diallo over Frank at this point if Baynes isn’t gonna play because Frank is that bad. This was also Bridges worst defensive game of the bubble. He overplayed his man constantly and was beat on backdoor cuts like 4-5 times at least. Really weird game for him because he’s the last guy I expect to make repetitive defensive mistakes. He needs to remember that there is no rim protector for the Suns so he can’t play press D so much. Cam was terrific offensively and had a great finish over Bam in the paint that I wish Ayton would learn from. Defensively, I think my eyes deceive me because I feel like Cam is in good position many times but gets called for fouls when his matchup drives on him.

Overall, again Monty Williams deserves a ton of credit for helping these guys maintain composure even when Miami made runs and Suns couldn’t hit anything for some stretches. And lastly, may the lord bless Devin Booker. He is a man on a ****ing mission right now.
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Re: Game 70: Phoenix Suns @ Miami Heat l Sat, Aug 8th l 4:30pm l FSNAZ 

Post#303 » by Saberestar » Sun Aug 9, 2020 12:05 pm

Revived wrote:This was our ugliest win of the bubble. Really proud that the team managed to get this win in a close game like this (and the few others in the bubble) because we’ve lost EIGHT times this season when the game was close (final score within 3). I really hope we can build on this.

Booker was ridiculous. You can say this about his game against the Clippers too but it remained true tonight. I didn’t see it but I think maybe Miami’s bench (Butler?) was talking trash to him early on because he was crazy locked in both offensively and defensively. Offensively he was one of the few who wasn’t scared of the big bad monster Bam in the paint and had some super nice crossovers on Herro to finish at the rim. Defensively, he really put in ton of effort. He was the only Suns player who had the game clock awareness at the end of the 1st half and ran to double Robinson knowing an extra pass would lead to time expiration. There was a possession in the 4th qtr when Bam was abusing Ayton and Booker literally looked at Ayton and tapped his own chest and said he will guard the 6’9 Bam himself. He actually got a clean strip but of course was called for a BS foul. I loved seeing this from him. He had a nice steal on that play when Bridges put back the offensive putback as well. One thing I want to add is that I’ve been watching basketball for a long time and I’ve never seen a player get more screwed by no calls on his 3pt attempts than Book. He was fouled extremely hard on his last 3pt attempt of the 3rd qtr and it was a play that he could’ve easily got injured. Igoudala gave him no space to land and cut him off entirely. But of **** course, no call. Seriously, watch this play. Look at where Igoudala lands at the end with legs between Booker’s body almost stepping on him. The funny thing is that the Heat play by play guy says immediately after this “Great defense by Igoudala” lmao but for whatever reason, I can’t get the sound on streamable to work.

https://streamable.com/3p0hia

This was Ayton’s worst defensive game of his career. Even worse than what we saw in his rookie season. I kid you not when I say Miami used Ayton in the action probably 70% of the time to score on backdoor cuts, no help defense, straight up, and any and all other ways. Probably ¾ of Herro’s points came on pick and rolls when Ayton didn’t switch or switched when he shouldn’t have. Literally the layup line for Miami because he was watching the rim waiting for the rebound in case they miss the point blank layup. The few times that he did switch, it was a half ass switch where he was caught in no man’s land basically not guarding the guy he switchd onto while not providing backdoor protection for the player that took on Bam or Olynyk (Ayton’s matchups). That play where Bam posted him down and slammed it on him with ease was just nasty. Bam looked like the #1 overall pick and Ayton did not tonight. Eric Spoelstra must think Ayton is worse than Kanter defensively for him to game plan like this. And that's scary.

Offensively he was a train wreck also. Blocked by the 6’6 DJJ who blocked him without jumping. He tried posting up Olynyk once and put up an awful Kobe fadeaway shot against Kelly freaking Olynyk. He also missed an easy offensive rebound (ball bounced right to his hands) putback against Crowder in the 4th QTR which would’ve been a huge key bucket. There was a play in which Saric gave him a decent bounce pass while he was in the post but he didn’t seal his defender and it got stolen by Olynyk. He also got rejected by the rim in the 3rd quarter because he went for the layup instead of the dunk when nobody was near him.

Before people say “oh whatever he still had 18 pts and 12 rebounds”, ask yourself how many of those Ayton actually created himself. Every basket except for one was assisted. He is literally doing what DeAndre Jordan did during Lob City Clippers and just finishing layups (instead of dunks) that Rubio, Booker etc set him up with. If the Suns had Clint Capela, I think Capela could score as much considering how many opportunities the big man gets in this offense because of all the attention that Booker draws and Rubio’s penetration attracts. It’s easy dump off passes at the rim. I will agree that Ayton is a big time upgrade on Alex Len who would drop and fumble away these easy passes.

Clint Capela averaged almost 17 pts and 13 rebounds doing nothing but finishing CP3 and Harden’s passes for layups and getting some offensive putbacks in the '18 season. This is basically Ayton’s entire offense right now if the defender guards that midrange jumper of his which is what Bam did tonight. He was literally lost offensively because of this. So Capela's offense with Kanter's defense & FT shooting is where Ayton is at right now.

I don't expect Ayton to be great on offense and great on defense. But at least be consistent and very good at one of them while being average at the other. That's exactly what Bam Adebayo is who is barely a yr older than Ayton and already elite defensively while being very good offensively. And Bam was drafted with the last pick in the lottery while Ayton was the first...

I liked Carter a lot in the 2018 pre draft and I still like him a lot now. He is the PG version of PJ Tucker. Rubio creates so many looks and reminds me of Nash so much with how he thinks two steps ahead of the defense. Saric again was the most underrated player of the night imo. He’s gone from a player I really disliked watching (along with Frank) to being someone that I appreciate because of his effort and basketball IQ. He uses great craftiness to draw fouls on mismatches and makes high iq passes. Defensively he just lacks athleticism and it’s impossible for him and Frank to play mins together because of this. I really think Monty needs to consider Diallo over Frank at this point if Baynes isn’t gonna play because Frank is that bad. This was also Bridges worst defensive game of the bubble. He overplayed his man constantly and was beat on backdoor cuts like 4-5 times at least. Really weird game for him because he’s the last guy I expect to make repetitive defensive mistakes. He needs to remember that there is no rim protector for the Suns so he can’t play press D so much. Cam was terrific offensively and had a great finish over Bam in the paint that I wish Ayton would learn from. Defensively, I think my eyes deceive me because I feel like Cam is in good position many times but gets called for fouls when his matchup drives on him.

Overall, again Monty Williams deserves a ton of credit for helping these guys maintain composure even when Miami made runs and Suns couldn’t hit anything for some stretches. And lastly, may the lord bless Devin Booker. He is a man on a ****ing mission right now.

Amazing post. You nailed it.
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Re: Game 70: Phoenix Suns @ Miami Heat l Sat, Aug 8th l 4:30pm l FSNAZ 

Post#304 » by bhawk » Sun Aug 9, 2020 12:52 pm

Revived wrote:This was our ugliest win of the bubble. Really proud that the team managed to get this win in a close game like this (and the few others in the bubble) because we’ve lost EIGHT times this season when the game was close (final score within 3). I really hope we can build on this.

Booker was ridiculous. You can say this about his game against the Clippers too but it remained true tonight. I didn’t see it but I think maybe Miami’s bench (Butler?) was talking trash to him early on because he was crazy locked in both offensively and defensively. Offensively he was one of the few who wasn’t scared of the big bad monster Bam in the paint and had some super nice crossovers on Herro to finish at the rim. Defensively, he really put in ton of effort. He was the only Suns player who had the game clock awareness at the end of the 1st half and ran to double Robinson knowing an extra pass would lead to time expiration. There was a possession in the 4th qtr when Bam was abusing Ayton and Booker literally looked at Ayton and tapped his own chest and said he will guard the 6’9 Bam himself. He actually got a clean strip but of course was called for a BS foul. I loved seeing this from him. He had a nice steal on that play when Bridges put back the offensive putback as well. One thing I want to add is that I’ve been watching basketball for a long time and I’ve never seen a player get more screwed by no calls on his 3pt attempts than Book. He was fouled extremely hard on his last 3pt attempt of the 3rd qtr and it was a play that he could’ve easily got injured. Igoudala gave him no space to land and cut him off entirely. But of **** course, no call. Seriously, watch this play. Look at where Igoudala lands at the end with legs between Booker’s body almost stepping on him. The funny thing is that the Heat play by play guy says immediately after this “Great defense by Igoudala” lmao but for whatever reason, I can’t get the sound on streamable to work.

https://streamable.com/3p0hia

This was Ayton’s worst defensive game of his career. Even worse than what we saw in his rookie season. I kid you not when I say Miami used Ayton in the action probably 70% of the time to score on backdoor cuts, no help defense, straight up, and any and all other ways. Probably ¾ of Herro’s points came on pick and rolls when Ayton didn’t switch or switched when he shouldn’t have. Literally the layup line for Miami because he was watching the rim waiting for the rebound in case they miss the point blank layup. The few times that he did switch, it was a half ass switch where he was caught in no man’s land basically not guarding the guy he switchd onto while not providing backdoor protection for the player that took on Bam or Olynyk (Ayton’s matchups). That play where Bam posted him down and slammed it on him with ease was just nasty. Bam looked like the #1 overall pick and Ayton did not tonight. Eric Spoelstra must think Ayton is worse than Kanter defensively for him to game plan like this. And that's scary.

Offensively he was a train wreck also. Blocked by the 6’6 DJJ who blocked him without jumping. He tried posting up Olynyk once and put up an awful Kobe fadeaway shot against Kelly freaking Olynyk. He also missed an easy offensive rebound (ball bounced right to his hands) putback against Crowder in the 4th QTR which would’ve been a huge key bucket. There was a play in which Saric gave him a decent bounce pass while he was in the post but he didn’t seal his defender and it got stolen by Olynyk. He also got rejected by the rim in the 3rd quarter because he went for the layup instead of the dunk when nobody was near him.

Before people say “oh whatever he still had 18 pts and 12 rebounds”, ask yourself how many of those Ayton actually created himself. Every basket except for one was assisted. He is literally doing what DeAndre Jordan did during Lob City Clippers and just finishing layups (instead of dunks) that Rubio, Booker etc set him up with. If the Suns had Clint Capela, I think Capela could score as much considering how many opportunities the big man gets in this offense because of all the attention that Booker draws and Rubio’s penetration attracts. It’s easy dump off passes at the rim. I will agree that Ayton is a big time upgrade on Alex Len who would drop and fumble away these easy passes.

Clint Capela averaged almost 17 pts and 13 rebounds doing nothing but finishing CP3 and Harden’s passes for layups and getting some offensive putbacks in the '18 season. This is basically Ayton’s entire offense right now if the defender guards that midrange jumper of his which is what Bam did tonight. He was literally lost offensively because of this. So Capela's offense with Kanter's defense & FT shooting is where Ayton is at right now.

I don't expect Ayton to be great on offense and great on defense. But at least be consistent and very good at one of them while being average at the other. That's exactly what Bam Adebayo is who is barely a yr older than Ayton and already elite defensively while being very good offensively. And Bam was drafted with the last pick in the lottery while Ayton was the first...

I liked Carter a lot in the 2018 pre draft and I still like him a lot now. He is the PG version of PJ Tucker. Rubio creates so many looks and reminds me of Nash so much with how he thinks two steps ahead of the defense. Saric again was the most underrated player of the night imo. He’s gone from a player I really disliked watching (along with Frank) to being someone that I appreciate because of his effort and basketball IQ. He uses great craftiness to draw fouls on mismatches and makes high iq passes. Defensively he just lacks athleticism and it’s impossible for him and Frank to play mins together because of this. I really think Monty needs to consider Diallo over Frank at this point if Baynes isn’t gonna play because Frank is that bad. This was also Bridges worst defensive game of the bubble. He overplayed his man constantly and was beat on backdoor cuts like 4-5 times at least. Really weird game for him because he’s the last guy I expect to make repetitive defensive mistakes. He needs to remember that there is no rim protector for the Suns so he can’t play press D so much. Cam was terrific offensively and had a great finish over Bam in the paint that I wish Ayton would learn from. Defensively, I think my eyes deceive me because I feel like Cam is in good position many times but gets called for fouls when his matchup drives on him.

Overall, again Monty Williams deserves a ton of credit for helping these guys maintain composure even when Miami made runs and Suns couldn’t hit anything for some stretches. And lastly, may the lord bless Devin Booker. He is a man on a ****ing mission right now.


It is posts like this that keep me lurking on the Suns board. Thank you and great insight.

I know we won last night and I'm super happy... but man it was ugly from an Ayton perspective. I can't remember a more passive player... there is no heart... no fire... no passion. He plays like he doesn't even like basketball. The dude is seriously skating by on being 7.0 ft and athletic. It's been 2 years and I'm still waiting for him to play like a #1 draft pick... still waiting for him to dominate anyone... instead of being dominated by lesser talent who play with more aggressiveness and passion - see Bam, see Thomas Bryant. Put Bam's aggressiveness in Ayton and you would have a true #1 draft pick.

You ever work with the guy that who half-asses it all the time, and doesn't take anything seriously? You know... the guy who secretly hates his job, dreams of being a DJ and is just there for paycheck? The guy that got hired because he grew up with the bosses son or, worse, is married to an exec's daughter. Well that guy is Ayton and he was hired because he is 7ft and athletic.

The question for me... Will Ayton grow up? He is super young and there is absolutely hope. But it has been 2 years and he still insists on lay-ups. He is still getting owned and pushed around by lesser talent.

If it is this frustrating from a fan perspective... think about how Book feels. Book is playing like an Alpha... he has that Jordanesque and Kobe fire and competitiveness. Book has got to be PISSED with this clown. Imagine how Monte feels having to tell Ayton to be more aggressive after every game! Just wow.

This is my first post of the summer... sorry to be so hard on Ayton. I still like the potential and hope he can someday play like the Suns first #1 draft pick.

A few other hot takes... just SHUT UP to Draymond Green. I hope Book can stay focused and hope he stays loyal to the Suns.

Oubre. So much potential... but kind of another head case. He has all the tools offensively, and could be a Bridges-like defender if he applied himself. But he screams selfish. He is all about the show... about looks and perceptions. After watching him early this season, I question what he cares more about... winning, or looking good? His current "I gotta get my head right and mojo back" before he plays is a little childish. Just man-up and get your ass out on to the court. Another case of a talented Suns player who may not care that much about winning.

Bridges - Just awesome. He is so fun to watch and the offense will come.

Cam - I was on the Brandon Clarke train, but Cam is quickly making me forget. Keep it up son. He could be a really good, long term piece of a winning Suns team. It seems like he has his head on straight.

Go Suns - 8-0 or bust!
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Re: Game 70: Phoenix Suns @ Miami Heat l Sat, Aug 8th l 4:30pm l FSNAZ 

Post#305 » by irish22022 » Sun Aug 9, 2020 1:08 pm

This is going to sound alarmist, but this is the point we need KO to come back. We're at a stage now that it seems like we need one truly unlikely player to have a career game to win (champagne or Carter or Saric or...) But when that fountain stops we're in trouble. We need to infuse this team with energy and KO would keep this thing riding.


Miami is a really good team, and we won't play another game in the bubble against a more physical, hard working team. But we've seen Carter have a great game and then disappear. These guys are great spark plugs but they aren't too be relied on.

Hope it keeps rolling and hope KO comes back.

Also, cam Payne autocorrected into champagne earlier in my post and I expect full credit for that nickname.
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Re: Game 70: Phoenix Suns @ Miami Heat l Sat, Aug 8th l 4:30pm l FSNAZ 

Post#306 » by Jdiddy701 » Sun Aug 9, 2020 4:48 pm

Yeah, I agree. I think this is perfect timing for Kelly Oubre to come back. Playing him 10-15 mins a game will not kill what we have going. I think he could be a huge boost off the bench. An even more intensity Kelly Oubre off the bench is scary when you pair him with how Payne and Carter have been on defense.

We can all agree to bring Baynes back for Frank, too. Would be huge against OKC.


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Re: Game 70: Phoenix Suns @ Miami Heat l Sat, Aug 8th l 4:30pm l FSNAZ 

Post#307 » by sunsbg » Sun Aug 9, 2020 5:53 pm

Clarke is better than Booker. Ayton plays like Capela. Empty stats in a win.

I can't believe the BS I read sometimes on this board.
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Re: Game 70: Phoenix Suns @ Miami Heat l Sat, Aug 8th l 4:30pm l FSNAZ 

Post#308 » by SunsRback4Good » Sun Aug 9, 2020 6:05 pm

sunsbg wrote:Clarke is better than Booker. Ayton plays like Capela. Empty stats in a win.

I can't believe the BS I read sometimes on this board.


Well, Clark Kent can fly can Booker though?
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Re: Game 70: Phoenix Suns @ Miami Heat l Sat, Aug 8th l 4:30pm l FSNAZ 

Post#309 » by lilfishi22 » Sun Aug 9, 2020 11:58 pm

One thing I've noticed this season and perhaps more so during the bubble games is Booker's athleticism. It seems like he's aiming to go for dunks a lot more often. I don't know if he's been working one extra explosive workouts but he looks somehow more athletic than before.

On the flipside, it certainly feels like Ayton's been hiding his athleticism a lot more. The first couple of bubble games he looked like he was a bit more versatile, doing a bit more with the ball offensively but the last few games, he's either been tipping the ball in or just doing his turn around jump shot to score. It's frustrating for sure. This is the time when Ayton needs to really step up because Booker has stepped up, he's put this team on his back and now needs Ayton to be that guy next to him. I just don't feel like Ayton has carried his weight. If we are to succeed (whatever that means) it will not just be because of Booker and random good games from Cam/Carter/Payne, it's because Ayton is impacting the game consistently alongside Book
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