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What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season

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What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season

Starting PG
3
5%
Starting SG
0
No votes
Starting SF
0
No votes
Starting PF
11
17%
Starting C
3
5%
Backup PG
11
17%
Backup SG
15
23%
Backup SF
1
2%
Backup PF
10
16%
Backup C
10
16%
 
Total votes: 64

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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#21 » by Blonde » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:18 am

My priorities would be:

(1) a third guard in the rotation. Someone who can reliably score buckets and can run an offensive set at times. I’m not sold that Payne/Carter can fill that roll for an entire season let alone a playoff push. They were great for 8 games but I’d feel a ton better if they were the 4th and 5th guards in the rotation.

(2) depth at the 4/5. Ideally a floor spacer.

(3) our PG of the future. It might be a tad early to plan for the post Rubio days but I’d like someone who can be groomed for a year or two. I can confidently say that player is not on this roster yet. I’d cut Jerome and Leque now if they weren’t guaranteed money.
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#22 » by sunskerr » Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:34 am

I would try to acquire a 2nd star in free agency either this year or next.
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#23 » by MathiasPW » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:11 pm

This team is (finally) ready to compete. In all positions, except one, where we still have a "lot of potential, but underwhelming production" situation.

I'm looking at you, Ayton.
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#24 » by Bogyo » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:34 pm

Question for y'all who vote backup SG: don't you guys think that Mikal/Cam/Carter can fill those 10-13 minutes when Book is not playing? Depending on matchups, and who is in better form. It also means a couple more minutes for out 3 (wings outside of Book), who are really deserving a starting spot (stargint minutes anyways).

I still feel that we do not have anybody athletic and agressive to guard 4s and 5s when DeAndre is out/sitting/half-assing the game.
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#25 » by nevetsov » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:39 pm

Why do some think Cam Johnson can play SG? He has literally never played SG for us. He's a SF/PF.
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#26 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:37 pm

sunskerr wrote:I would try to acquire a 2nd star in free agency either this year or next.
This is probably the biggest question Jones has to answer in the next year or two... Is Ayton really the 2 on a good team. The moves last summer were made with the idea Ayton and Booker were to be built around we'll see if that strategy continues.

Now I don't see any realistic FA this fall being the answer and there's a chance no one that fits this bill is available in a trade but if they were to come open it might take Ayton to get them.

Personally I don't know, Aytons defensive develop is very encouraging but he has a ways to go there and on his offensive game too but he's very young and the best version of him would be a good 2 for Booker.

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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#27 » by BobbieL » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:32 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
sunskerr wrote:I would try to acquire a 2nd star in free agency either this year or next.
This is probably the biggest question Jones has to answer in the next year or two... Is Ayton really the 2 on a good team. The moves last summer were made with the idea Ayton and Booker were to be built around we'll see if that strategy continues.

Now I don't see any realistic FA this fall being the answer and there's a chance no one that fits this bill is available in a trade but if they were to come open it might take Ayton to get them.

Personally I don't know, Aytons defensive develop is very encouraging but he has a ways to go there and on his offensive game too but he's very young and the best version of him would be a good 2 for Booker.

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The Ayton question is why I think this year is a year to early to really go all in during free agency. Meaning signing players to contracts that will not allow the team to be a participant in FA next summer. I think the Suns can make some moves this offseason - one year deals - while keeping cap flexibility.

As we do need to see how Ayton, Bridges, Cam, Saric (guessing he will be back), Booker - improve. Also, if Phoenix has another year where they are trending up - makes them more of a player in Free Agency. Not an also ran.
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#28 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:57 pm

BobbieL wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
sunskerr wrote:I would try to acquire a 2nd star in free agency either this year or next.
This is probably the biggest question Jones has to answer in the next year or two... Is Ayton really the 2 on a good team. The moves last summer were made with the idea Ayton and Booker were to be built around we'll see if that strategy continues.

Now I don't see any realistic FA this fall being the answer and there's a chance no one that fits this bill is available in a trade but if they were to come open it might take Ayton to get them.

Personally I don't know, Aytons defensive develop is very encouraging but he has a ways to go there and on his offensive game too but he's very young and the best version of him would be a good 2 for Booker.

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The Ayton question is why I think this year is a year to early to really go all in during free agency. Meaning signing players to contracts that will not allow the team to be a participant in FA next summer. I think the Suns can make some moves this offseason - one year deals - while keeping cap flexibility.

As we do need to see how Ayton, Bridges, Cam, Saric (guessing he will be back), Booker - improve. Also, if Phoenix has another year where they are trending up - makes them more of a player in Free Agency. Not an also ran.
I agree. And looking at this FA class only AD is really the guy who slots in as a best player on a good team slot, he's not going anywhere. Brandon Ingram is probably the next closest thing but is a RFA and I'm not sure if he's really a better bet than Ayton to fill that 'star' spot.

You do need to be oportunistic with this kind of thing, if someone suddenly comes available that's when the hard discussions need to happen.

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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#29 » by Desertfox » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:42 pm

Just an idea but what about trading Oubre for some solid backups? Could the Mavs use him? I'm thinking Oubre for Kleber + Curry, you get a solid 4-5 and 1-2 backup.
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#30 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:30 pm

Desertfox wrote:Just an idea but what about trading Oubre for some solid backups? Could the Mavs use him? I'm thinking Oubre for Kleber + Curry, you get a solid 4-5 and 1-2 backup.


Dallas is an intriguing and potentially viable consideration for a potential Oubre trade. However, Trades of Oubre to Dallas have been proposed, But the issue is in that the majority of Dallas fans Value Kleber too highly due to contract value and overall fit. You're not going to get both Kleber AND Curry for Oubre. In the trade discussions, They have Oubres' current trade value at maybe Wright and the 31st pick or Oubre for the 18th and 31st picks, or maybe Oubre for Kleber straight up trade. :-?

That's been the consensus highest value return for Oubre they'd consider. And personally, I'd consider the Wright and the 31st, Or Oubre for the 18/31. And then I'd draft:

10- Vassell or Okoro. Lockdown perimeter defensive 2/3.
18- Jalen Smith or Paul Reed. Versatile, Switchable lockdown defenders and floor spacing 4/5s'.
31- Draft Precious Achiuwa or Daniel Oturu. (Baynes insurance). Then I'd look to use the added cap space to sign Gallinari (** Booker's long time family friend). :wink: And having Booker/ Cam/ Gallo/ Ayton would give us a top 5 offense in the league next season! And Vassell/ Reed/ Oturu or Smith/ Okoro/ Achiuwa would give us an elite lockdown defense as well. We'd absolutely overwhelm other teams with our offense! And stifle and suffocate opposing teams with our defense. :nod:

Lastly, I do really like Klebers' skillset, But we could honestly just purchase a 2nd round pick for Killian Tillie and get the exact same skillset, But with better shooting for a fraction of the price contractually. The same applies to Seth Curry, In that we could add a mid first for an almost identical prospect in Tyrell Terry. Or in the mid to late 2nd round with Sam Merrill or Skylar Mays perhaps. Allowing us to maintain cap flexibility for free agency to add either Gallinari or a Milsapp? :dontknow:
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#31 » by cberry78 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:58 pm

nevetsov wrote:Why do some think Cam Johnson can play SG? He has literally never played SG for us. He's a SF/PF.
Because he's a 6'8" Booker, and he may very well be the best shooter on this team....kinda sorta what you want from your Shooting Guard.

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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#32 » by BobbieL » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:19 pm

All things equal - would like a scoring two guard off the bench. Now, Jones needs to get talent but again, I think a player that can fill it up at times - would be nice. Maybe thats why I think Oubre off the bench - as he has those kinds of games.
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#33 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:17 pm

BobbieL wrote:All things equal - would like a scoring two guard off the bench. Now, Jones needs to get talent but again, I think a player that can fill it up at times - would be nice. Maybe thats why I think Oubre off the bench - as he has those kinds of games.
Oubre off the bench could work well but need need need to have either Rubio or another good PG on the floor with him. He's the type that needs to be set up and his on/off splits with Rubio this year were pretty drastic.

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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#34 » by BobbieL » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:48 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
BobbieL wrote:All things equal - would like a scoring two guard off the bench. Now, Jones needs to get talent but again, I think a player that can fill it up at times - would be nice. Maybe thats why I think Oubre off the bench - as he has those kinds of games.
Oubre off the bench could work well but need need need to have either Rubio or another good PG on the floor with him. He's the type that needs to be set up and his on/off splits with Rubio this year were pretty drastic.

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I still think even if Oubre is your 6th man - a two guard that can shoot decent to back up Booker is needed.
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#35 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:01 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
BobbieL wrote:All things equal - would like a scoring two guard off the bench. Now, Jones needs to get talent but again, I think a player that can fill it up at times - would be nice. Maybe thats why I think Oubre off the bench - as he has those kinds of games.
Oubre off the bench could work well but need need need to have either Rubio or another good PG on the floor with him. He's the type that needs to be set up and his on/off splits with Rubio this year were pretty drastic.

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THe problem is that a lot of us has been arguing for Oubre to come off the bench since early in the season (in favor of Bridges starting) because of his energy and microwave scoring ability. But Monty just seems to be reluctant to do that. Maybe next season he'll have a different starting line up based on the success of the bubble but I do see Oubre coming back into the starting line up.

But I do agree that Oubre off the bench would solve a lot of issues in terms of consistent scoring off the bench.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#36 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:08 pm

Bogyo wrote:Question for y'all who vote backup SG: don't you guys think that Mikal/Cam/Carter can fill those 10-13 minutes when Book is not playing? Depending on matchups, and who is in better form. It also means a couple more minutes for out 3 (wings outside of Book), who are really deserving a starting spot (stargint minutes anyways).

I still feel that we do not have anybody athletic and agressive to guard 4s and 5s when DeAndre is out/sitting/half-assing the game.

I don't think they are the offensive creator we want in that back up 2 spot. These guys are all secondary scorers in the sense that they aren't really guys you give the ball to and expect to see them create scoring opportunities for you consistently. They score within the flow of the offense. In isolated scenarios, these guys can get a shot off but that's generally because they take guys by surprise rather than taking guys off the dribble or something.

What we need is a guy who can create their own offense confidently, whenever we need it.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#37 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:54 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
Bogyo wrote:Question for y'all who vote backup SG: don't you guys think that Mikal/Cam/Carter can fill those 10-13 minutes when Book is not playing? Depending on matchups, and who is in better form. It also means a couple more minutes for out 3 (wings outside of Book), who are really deserving a starting spot (stargint minutes anyways).

I still feel that we do not have anybody athletic and agressive to guard 4s and 5s when DeAndre is out/sitting/half-assing the game.

I don't think they are the offensive creator we want in that back up 2 spot. These guys are all secondary scorers in the sense that they aren't really guys you give the ball to and expect to see them create scoring opportunities for you consistently. They score within the flow of the offense. In isolated scenarios, these guys can get a shot off but that's generally because they take guys by surprise rather than taking guys off the dribble or something.

What we need is a guy who can create their own offense confidently, whenever we need it.
I was someone who didn't think oubre should move to the bench because him and Bridges starting together was working really well. After seeing Cam in that role I've changed my tune because the threat of Cam shooting helps spacing for that lineup. Now if they go back to Oubre over Cam for next year I wouldn't be too upset and I think that lineup will be good.

I get why people like him off the bench but as I was saying earlier you kind of need a good facilitator with him. While I know Kelly would probably enjoy if he was the focal point and you give him the ball and let him work I don't think that's the best use of him because he's likely to go yolo mode and try to do too much and that's the worst kind of Kelly Oubre. Now if Payne is real that could help because he can at least get out in transition a place where Kelly is good, no other backup PG this year was good at that (or really anything tbh)

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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#38 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:19 am

[
Spoiler:
quote="lilfishi22"]
Bogyo wrote:Question for y'all who vote backup SG: don't you guys think that Mikal/Cam/Carter can fill those 10-13 minutes when Book is not playing? Depending on matchups, and who is in better form. It also means a couple more minutes for out 3 (wings outside of Book), who are really deserving a starting spot (stargint minutes anyways).

I still feel that we do not have anybody athletic and agressive to guard 4s and 5s when DeAndre is out/sitting/half-assing the game.

I don't think they are the offensive creator we want in that back up 2 spot. These guys are all secondary scorers in the sense that they aren't really guys you give the ball to and expect to see them create scoring opportunities for you consistently. They score within the flow of the offense. In isolated scenarios, these guys can get a shot off but that's generally because they take guys by surprise rather than taking guys off the dribble or something.

What we need is a guy who can create their own offense confidently, whenever we need it.[/quote]


What we need is a guy who can create their own offense confidently, whenever we need it


You mean like a GRANT RILLER? :eyebrows: Widely considered the best scorer, and most elite ISO scorer in the draft.
Or perhaps a "Luke Kennard" type player ???
SAM MERRILL??? :wink: Basically a clone of Kennard, Minus the injury ( knee tendonitis issues). And even outside of those two, in the late 2nd round, You have very solid near elite ISO scoring options in : Skylar Mays, *Elijah Hughes* ( mini Oubre) Breein Tyree, Mason Jones, and even Jalen Harris of Nevada. The majority of those microwave ISO scorers have multiple 30 point games are really good shooters, And excel at making difficult shots and creative ways to score.

Seriously though, Outside of the draft, The best bargain options in free agency that we should strongly consider for microwave scoring off the bench might be any of Bryn Forbes, Alec Burks, maybe even look at Jordan Mcrae. Ideally IF we could get to potent scorers in free agency at a discount in Burks and Mcrae, or maybe Bryn Forbes and Justin Holiday? ( He's been shooting over 42% this last season) and is a pretty good defender too. We could always choose to revisit trading the 10th pick for Luke Kennard. Although I honestly would rather trade the 10th pick and maybe Jerome or Okobo to Philly for Richardson/ Broekhoff ( budget version of kennard/ Joe Harris) and the 21st and 36th picks. ** IF we missed out on Vassell or Okoro at 10, I'd absolutely consider this particular trade.
And if they don't really want to part with Richardson, That's fine! I'll gladly accept Thybulle in his place. Then I'd use the picks for further depth.
21- Achiuwa or Reed.
36- Daniel Oturu or Vernon Carey? We've now addressed our backcourt shooting defensive needs ( Richardson/ Thybulle) and our offensive shooting needs ( Broekhoff). And also our frontcourt defense; Rim protection/ rebounding and versatile switchable defense with length and athleticism ( Achiuwa or Reed). And insurance for Baynes leaving in either Oturu or Carey.
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#39 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:00 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Bogyo wrote:Question for y'all who vote backup SG: don't you guys think that Mikal/Cam/Carter can fill those 10-13 minutes when Book is not playing? Depending on matchups, and who is in better form. It also means a couple more minutes for out 3 (wings outside of Book), who are really deserving a starting spot (stargint minutes anyways).

I still feel that we do not have anybody athletic and agressive to guard 4s and 5s when DeAndre is out/sitting/half-assing the game.

I don't think they are the offensive creator we want in that back up 2 spot. These guys are all secondary scorers in the sense that they aren't really guys you give the ball to and expect to see them create scoring opportunities for you consistently. They score within the flow of the offense. In isolated scenarios, these guys can get a shot off but that's generally because they take guys by surprise rather than taking guys off the dribble or something.

What we need is a guy who can create their own offense confidently, whenever we need it.
I was someone who didn't think oubre should move to the bench because him and Bridges starting together was working really well. After seeing Cam in that role I've changed my tune because the threat of Cam shooting helps spacing for that lineup. Now if they go back to Oubre over Cam for next year I wouldn't be too upset and I think that lineup will be good.

I get why people like him off the bench but as I was saying earlier you kind of need a good facilitator with him. While I know Kelly would probably enjoy if he was the focal point and you give him the ball and let him work I don't think that's the best use of him because he's likely to go yolo mode and try to do too much and that's the worst kind of Kelly Oubre. Now if Payne is real that could help because he can at least get out in transition a place where Kelly is good, no other backup PG this year was good at that (or really anything tbh)

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I think in any case, I want Oubre off the bench because of what he provides, with or without a guy to keep from going too YOLO. Essentially, whether we bring in a legit back 2 or not, I think Oubre still works better off the bench than in the starting lineup where our focus should be on Booker and getting Ayton/Cam/Bridges going offensively.

Rotation-wise, there's enough ball handling between Rubio, Booker, Payne/Carter to limit Oubre's YOLO type of scoring if we don't add anyone but if we do, even better.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: What position(s) are the most important to address this off-season 

Post#40 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:06 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:[
Spoiler:
quote="lilfishi22"][quote="Bogyo"]Question for y'all who vote backup SG: don't you guys think that Mikal/Cam/Carter can fill those 10-13 minutes when Book is not playing? Depending on matchups, and who is in better form. It also means a couple more minutes for out 3 (wings outside of Book), who are really deserving a starting spot (stargint minutes anyways).

I still feel that we do not have anybody athletic and agressive to guard 4s and 5s when DeAndre is out/sitting/half-assing the game.[/quote]
I don't think they are the offensive creator we want in that back up 2 spot. These guys are all secondary scorers in the sense that they aren't really guys you give the ball to and expect to see them create scoring opportunities for you consistently. They score within the flow of the offense. In isolated scenarios, these guys can get a shot off but that's generally because they take guys by surprise rather than taking guys off the dribble or something.

What we need is a guy who can create their own offense confidently, whenever we need it.[/quote]


[quote]What we need is a guy who can create their own offense confidently, whenever we need it[/quote]

You mean like a GRANT RILLER? :eyebrows: Widely considered the best scorer, and most elite ISO scorer in the draft.
Or perhaps a "Luke Kennard" type player ???
SAM MERRILL??? :wink: Basically a clone of Kennard, Minus the injury ( knee tendonitis issues). And even outside of those two, in the late 2nd round, You have very solid near elite ISO scoring options in : Skylar Mays, *Elijah Hughes* ( mini Oubre) Breein Tyree, Mason Jones, and even Jalen Harris of Nevada. The majority of those microwave ISO scorers have multiple 30 point games are really good shooters, And excel at making difficult shots and creative ways to score.

Seriously though, Outside of the draft, The best bargain options in free agency that we should strongly consider for microwave scoring off the bench might be any of Bryn Forbes, Alec Burks, maybe even look at Jordan Mcrae. Ideally IF we could get to potent scorers in free agency at a discount in Burks and Mcrae, or maybe Bryn Forbes and Justin Holiday? ( He's been shooting over 42% this last season) and is a pretty good defender too. We could always choose to revisit trading the 10th pick for Luke Kennard. Although I honestly would rather trade the 10th pick and maybe Jerome or Okobo to Philly for Richardson/ Broekhoff ( budget version of kennard/ Joe Harris) and the 21st and 36th picks. ** IF we missed out on Vassell or Okoro at 10, I'd absolutely consider this particular trade.
And if they don't really want to part with Richardson, That's fine! I'll gladly accept Thybulle in his place. Then I'd use the picks for further depth.
21- Achiuwa or Reed.
36- Daniel Oturu or Vernon Carey? We've now addressed our backcourt shooting defensive needs ( Richardson/ Thybulle) and our offensive shooting needs ( Broekhoff). And also our frontcourt defense; Rim protection/ rebounding and versatile switchable defense with length and athleticism ( Achiuwa or Reed). And insurance for Baynes leaving in either Oturu or Carey.[/quote]

I honestly haven't even given any thought to the draft. I'm usually a bit late getting into the draft but with so much uncertainty this year, I haven't at all turned my mind to it yet. But my general thought on using the draft to find reliable contributors is, don't. Maybe when I turn my mind to it (likely after the draft lotto) I might agree with you on the guys you've listed but I'd rather look for a known quantity if we're looking for someone to play an important role (bench scoring guard)
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though

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