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2020 NBA Playoff discussion

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22, Kerrsed

Who will win the Conference Finals?

Celtics and Lakers
1
9%
Celtics and Nuggets
0
No votes
Heat and Lakers
4
36%
Heat and Nuggets
6
55%
 
Total votes: 11

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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#221 » by suns12345 » Tue Sep 1, 2020 11:54 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
The main point is who cares what all these online so called "draft experts" mocked. These GMs get paid a lot of money for a reason. A guy like Danny Ainge knew what he was doing. JJ not going to that workout didn't matter. He obviously was locked in on Tatum.

I could go through a big list of GMs that are great at drafting, and they don't necessarily draft as mocks would expect (and if they don't, that doesn't mean the made bad picks)....we've made bad picks..who cares what online mocks created by one guy sitting at home predicted? How about the scouts and GMs making bank?
This 100%. GMs are paid to get more right than wrong.

When they fail the development vs just not a good player is basically the basketball version of nature vs nurture debate. Like that the answer is both matter. Now I'd argue part of the GMs job is to hire the right coaches to make sure guys develop.

I'm not sure Bender would have panned out anywhere especially early in his career because he simply wasn't physically ready to play NBA basketball.

Chriss maybe pans out in the perfect setting he at least has NBA body and athleticism. But Houston and Cleveland gave up on him pretty quickly too.

I know some will disagree but I simply don't think Jackson was very good. Like he does so little well offensively I think he busts no matter the situation. And he's a **** head.

Len is who is he is and frankly isn't a bad player. Heck if they would have just let him start and never signed Chandler he would have been an average C.

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Yes, they should do proper scouting, pay no (or little) attention to mocks and big boards, or even the guy Booker or Jackson or whatever other player on the team want to draft.


I think this is all easier said than done. if you go against the mocks (like an ainge etc.) you can bet you'll get criticised for it. Which is fine if the guy pans out in the end or if you are a well established GM.

But I think it can be very difficult for new GMs to truly go with their gut. I'm not saying that doesn't mean they're a bad GM, i'm just saying you can see how it happens.

Maybe it is a good sign James Jones bucked the trend with Cam and so far it has paid off. Maybe it was a fluke, who knows.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#222 » by SunsLyf3 » Tue Sep 1, 2020 11:55 pm

Marcus Smart needs to be a sun.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#223 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Sep 2, 2020 12:22 am

GoodBehavior wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
The main point is who cares what all these online so called "draft experts" mocked. These GMs get paid a lot of money for a reason. A guy like Danny Ainge knew what he was doing. JJ not going to that workout didn't matter. He obviously was locked in on Tatum.

I could go through a big list of GMs that are great at drafting, and they don't necessarily draft as mocks would expect (and if they don't, that doesn't mean the made bad picks)....we've made bad picks..who cares what online mocks created by one guy sitting at home predicted? How about the scouts and GMs making bank?
This 100%. GMs are paid to get more right than wrong.

When they fail the development vs just not a good player is basically the basketball version of nature vs nurture debate. Like that the answer is both matter. Now I'd argue part of the GMs job is to hire the right coaches to make sure guys develop.

I'm not sure Bender would have panned out anywhere especially early in his career because he simply wasn't physically ready to play NBA basketball.

Chriss maybe pans out in the perfect setting he at least has NBA body and athleticism. But Houston and Cleveland gave up on him pretty quickly too.

I know some will disagree but I simply don't think Jackson was very good. Like he does so little well offensively I think he busts no matter the situation. And he's a **** head.

Len is who is he is and frankly isn't a bad player. Heck if they would have just let him start and never signed Chandler he would have been an average C.

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Those guys' careers were already derailed before leaving the Suns, nothing is going to change that. FWIW, those guys have looked considerably better with other teams compared to their playing days with the Suns.

In this modern nba game, if you haven't develop a serviceable jumpshot by year 3 or so, the future is pretty bleak unless you have ungodly athletic ability. Those guys you mentioned are unplayable because they can't make buckets when left open. The Suns are terrible at developing player's shooting abilities. TJ Warren's sudden 3 point development came from working with his uncle (not with the Suns), when it looked increasingly clear that he's not part of the core and was likely gone from the team.

Suns' track record in this development has been awful prior to Monty Williams' arrival. Mikal Bridges was awful last year, and developed a weird hitch, despite stellar college stats. Quese had a promising jumpshot pre-draft. People felt good that Bender and Lens would be good shooter. JJ had a questionable jumpshot form. But I don't think his prospect (as a shooter) was any worse than a Marcus Smart or Jaylen Brown. If JJ could shoot, I think we're talking about very different player. You can say the same thing about Lens, Quese, and Bender.

Some teams does it well and the Suns have not. I hope it changes with Monty. So far, the results are encouraging.
It's a matter of opinion because it's not like you can replay a guys early career in a different situation. I fully acknowledge the suns haven't been the most stable developmental environment. But I also feel in general that's kind of a cop out we see with any lotto pick who fails with a bad franchise. The fact is some lotto picks bust no matter the situation.

I would argue the truly special players succeed regardless of situation. I think situation matters a lot more with role players.

I'd also say Devin Booker actually benefited quite a bit by being Phoenix. On a good team there's no way he's given the opportunity to handle the ball as much early in his career and play through the turnovers and bad shots. He'd have been made a spot up shooter early in his career on a good team. Now he's likely have better defensive habits but he was always going to be an offense first type guy.

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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#224 » by darealjuice » Wed Sep 2, 2020 2:56 am

Wow what a series
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#225 » by suns12345 » Wed Sep 2, 2020 2:56 am

Damn, i wanted the Jazz to win that one
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#226 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Sep 2, 2020 2:59 am

That score just messed me all up. I was doing stuff with my kids and just got them to bed so checked the score and 80-78 so just assumed it was the end 3rd quarter. Turned it on for the final 18 seconds and was confused why the announcers were getting so worked up for the end of the Q. Didn't realize until after Conley missed the shot it was the game.

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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#227 » by bwgood77 » Wed Sep 2, 2020 5:37 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:That score just messed me all up. I was doing stuff with my kids and just got them to bed so checked the score and 80-78 so just assumed it was the end 3rd quarter. Turned it on for the final 18 seconds and was confused why the announcers were getting so worked up for the end of the Q. Didn't realize until after Conley missed the shot it was the game.

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Someone on the Nuggets was dumb enough after the turnover, lead and 10 seconds left, to try a lay up. Utah could have won because of that dumb mistake.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#228 » by sunskerr » Wed Sep 2, 2020 7:46 am

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:That score just messed me all up. I was doing stuff with my kids and just got them to bed so checked the score and 80-78 so just assumed it was the end 3rd quarter. Turned it on for the final 18 seconds and was confused why the announcers were getting so worked up for the end of the Q. Didn't realize until after Conley missed the shot it was the game.

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Someone on the Nuggets was dumb enough after the turnover, lead and 10 seconds left, to try a lay up. Utah could have won because of that dumb mistake.


Wasnt really the fault of the layup attempter. That more the fault of 1)Murray forcing the fast break instead of pulling the ball back out and 2)the jazz for not trying to foul. The nuggets player attempting the layup is only at fault for missing an easy layup. Once he is in that position, caused by Murray's poor decision making, then arguably the best decision is to take a wide open layup.

I just watched the replay of the ending and Mike Conley cuts across at an attempt to disrupt the shot but that's still an easy layup for any NBA player.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#229 » by bwgood77 » Wed Sep 2, 2020 1:28 pm

sunskerr wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:That score just messed me all up. I was doing stuff with my kids and just got them to bed so checked the score and 80-78 so just assumed it was the end 3rd quarter. Turned it on for the final 18 seconds and was confused why the announcers were getting so worked up for the end of the Q. Didn't realize until after Conley missed the shot it was the game.

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Someone on the Nuggets was dumb enough after the turnover, lead and 10 seconds left, to try a lay up. Utah could have won because of that dumb mistake.


Wasnt really the fault of the layup attempter. That more the fault of 1)Murray forcing the fast break instead of pulling the ball back out and 2)the jazz for not trying to foul. The nuggets player attempting the layup is only at fault for missing an easy layup. Once he is in that position, caused by Murray's poor decision making, then arguably the best decision is to take a wide open layup.

I just watched the replay of the ending and Mike Conley cuts across at an attempt to disrupt the shot but that's still an easy layup for any NBA player.


True, the whole fastbreak was a dumb idea. I hope it's a good lesson for our team if they watched (knowing Utah could have won entire series). I've seen us screw up end of quarters at least, though Booker has vastly improved in this respect. Awareness of clock/situation is of vast importance. I think Rubio, Cam and Mikal have that awareness for sure. Probably Dario as well.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#230 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Sep 2, 2020 2:48 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
sunskerr wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Someone on the Nuggets was dumb enough after the turnover, lead and 10 seconds left, to try a lay up. Utah could have won because of that dumb mistake.


Wasnt really the fault of the layup attempter. That more the fault of 1)Murray forcing the fast break instead of pulling the ball back out and 2)the jazz for not trying to foul. The nuggets player attempting the layup is only at fault for missing an easy layup. Once he is in that position, caused by Murray's poor decision making, then arguably the best decision is to take a wide open layup.

I just watched the replay of the ending and Mike Conley cuts across at an attempt to disrupt the shot but that's still an easy layup for any NBA player.


True, the whole fastbreak was a dumb idea. I hope it's a good lesson for our team if they watched (knowing Utah could have won entire series). I've seen us screw up end of quarters at least, though Booker has vastly improved in this respect. Awareness of clock/situation is of vast importance. I think Rubio, Cam and Mikal have that awareness for sure. Probably Dario as well.
That was part of the 18 seconds I watched but thought it was the 3rd quarter when it was happening in real time. Lol

Looking back I actually don't hate taking that layup but dude should have dunked it. That puts them up 4 and pretty much ends the game where as if you pull it out you could miss a FT.

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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#231 » by bwgood77 » Wed Sep 2, 2020 2:51 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
sunskerr wrote:
Wasnt really the fault of the layup attempter. That more the fault of 1)Murray forcing the fast break instead of pulling the ball back out and 2)the jazz for not trying to foul. The nuggets player attempting the layup is only at fault for missing an easy layup. Once he is in that position, caused by Murray's poor decision making, then arguably the best decision is to take a wide open layup.

I just watched the replay of the ending and Mike Conley cuts across at an attempt to disrupt the shot but that's still an easy layup for any NBA player.


True, the whole fastbreak was a dumb idea. I hope it's a good lesson for our team if they watched (knowing Utah could have won entire series). I've seen us screw up end of quarters at least, though Booker has vastly improved in this respect. Awareness of clock/situation is of vast importance. I think Rubio, Cam and Mikal have that awareness for sure. Probably Dario as well.
That was part of the 18 seconds I watched but thought it was the 3rd quarter when it was happening in real time. Lol

Looking back I actually don't hate taking that layup but dude should have dunked it. That puts them up 4 and pretty much ends the game where as if you pull it out you could miss a FT.

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Good point, but I think they could have run out the clock...it was a surprising steal and not a situation they could set the defense and get prepared to foul. Then there is the missed dunk possibility that we all know about....I can't recall if he was in a good situation/had the angle to dunk either....seemed like a very fast break with 3 guys on it.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#232 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Sep 2, 2020 2:59 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
True, the whole fastbreak was a dumb idea. I hope it's a good lesson for our team if they watched (knowing Utah could have won entire series). I've seen us screw up end of quarters at least, though Booker has vastly improved in this respect. Awareness of clock/situation is of vast importance. I think Rubio, Cam and Mikal have that awareness for sure. Probably Dario as well.
That was part of the 18 seconds I watched but thought it was the 3rd quarter when it was happening in real time. Lol

Looking back I actually don't hate taking that layup but dude should have dunked it. That puts them up 4 and pretty much ends the game where as if you pull it out you could miss a FT.

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Good point, but I think they could have run out the clock...it was a surprising steal and not a situation they could set the defense and get prepared to foul. Then there is the missed dunk possibility that we all know about....I can't recall if he was in a good situation/had the angle to dunk either....seemed like a very fast break with 3 guys on it.
He had a good angle and that really wasn't contested he just blew the layup. Pulling it out would have been fine I'm just not as down on the decision.

Honestly the worse awareness was Utah not fouling right as that fast break started.

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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#233 » by bwgood77 » Wed Sep 2, 2020 3:15 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:That was part of the 18 seconds I watched but thought it was the 3rd quarter when it was happening in real time. Lol

Looking back I actually don't hate taking that layup but dude should have dunked it. That puts them up 4 and pretty much ends the game where as if you pull it out you could miss a FT.

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Good point, but I think they could have run out the clock...it was a surprising steal and not a situation they could set the defense and get prepared to foul. Then there is the missed dunk possibility that we all know about....I can't recall if he was in a good situation/had the angle to dunk either....seemed like a very fast break with 3 guys on it.
He had a good angle and that really wasn't contested he just blew the layup. Pulling it out would have been fine I'm just not as down on the decision.

Honestly the worse awareness was Utah not fouling right as that fast break started.

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Jokic wasn't too happy they ran a fastbreak for a layup once they got the ball, according to his post game interview. Murray, being the 92% FT shooter in the playoffs....I would have held the ball..the fast break actually made time kind of go by slower than had they just avoided defenders. But of course a dunk would have sealed it.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#234 » by Crives » Thu Sep 3, 2020 3:16 am

Who else was thinking “I wonder if Dragic” will come back after watching this Bucks/Heat series
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#235 » by suns12345 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 3:43 am

This reffing is comical. The clock should be set at 2.5 seconds when Dort first touched it from out of bounds... These refs on the replay review are clueless

edit: there we go. only took them 10 years
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#236 » by suns12345 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 3:50 am

OMG this is tragic
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#237 » by King4Day » Thu Sep 3, 2020 3:53 am

Another great game 7
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#238 » by King4Day » Thu Sep 3, 2020 3:53 am

Houston is going to get shelled by LAL. Davis is going to destroy them
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#239 » by suns12345 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 3:53 am

Last comment... why the F didnt adams just walk to the ring on that last inbound. Trashy game wow.
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Re: 2020 NBA Playoff discussion 

Post#240 » by King4Day » Thu Sep 3, 2020 3:56 am

suns12345 wrote:Last comment... why the F didnt adams just walk to the ring on that last inbound. Trashy game wow.


I think he was worried about the 5 second violation.
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