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Who is the second most important piece of our core?

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Second most important player in our young core

Ayton
45
61%
Bridges
29
39%
 
Total votes: 74

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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#101 » by sunsbg » Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:31 pm

Equal value. Give them the same 20M+ non-max contract.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#102 » by JohnWall2 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:38 pm

It's close, really close. I see both as indispensable core players moving forward and currently the 3rd/4th best players on the roster behind the 2 all star level guards.

I'm going to go with Ayton as I think his skill set is a touch more valuable to this roster as currently constructed. I also think he still has more untapped potential and as a big man probably has more room for growth, especially being a couple of years younger.

Super tight choice though and want both here for long term.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#103 » by bwgood77 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:37 pm

Saberestar wrote:It is interesting that after 25 games both Bridges and Ayton average exactly 14.0 ppg and 1.0 bpg.

Bridges is playing 33 mpg and Ayton 32 mpg.
Both have been healthy and they have started at every game so far.

Mikal primary adds triples (.387 % on 5 attempts) and nice perimeter defense.

OTOH Ayton adds rebounding (12.3 rpg) and nice interior defense.

All in all both are making their case as a THIRD most important player of our core, after Book and CP3.


Mikal the better defender by quite a bit and more complete player, though Ayton keeps improving in various areas and has solid perimeter defense for a big.

Mikal has actually been more off on offense lately though...or at least inconsistent...of course you could say the same about Ayton though Ayton's is usually due to a lack of shots and he is still usually efficient with them, and Mikal usually just has a bad shot night on a greater number of shots.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#104 » by Saberestar » Fri Mar 5, 2021 9:44 am

Going into the All Star break these are their numbers after 35 games:

Ayton:
14.5 points, 11.4 boards, 1.7 assists, 1.1 blocks with .624 TS% in 31 mpg.

Bridges:
13.7 points, 5.1 boards, 2.2 assists, 0.9 blocks with .658 TS% IN 32 mpg.

Nice to see both healthy all season long and playing less minutes lately because a few blowout victories.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#105 » by Calvin Klein » Fri Mar 5, 2021 1:01 pm

Eddie Johnson speaking what we all say about Ayton (super passive, afraid of contact, etc) on the Lowe Post so we're not that crazy after all. I don't know if he'll ever change that about him but it would make all the difference in the world.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#106 » by TouchPassDario » Fri Mar 5, 2021 2:17 pm

bwgood77 wrote:In a twitter poll this was asked and Rubio won in a landslide....though that was talking about strictly this season I believe.

This is a tough question and I have always kind of hated terms like "#1 option" and having to pick the most important.

I think Ayton and Bridges are both very important. I would say if I had to pick one to keep and one to trade I'd definitely keep Bridges thinking Ayton would have more trade value, but honestly I'm not absolutely sure he would. I think Mikal has very very high upside. I'm talking like premier defenders/finishers/3 pt shooters in the league and he's a very good passer with a sky high bbiq.

Bridges is our best finisher at the rim at about 75%. Booker and Ayton are around 72%, Johnson 71%, Saric 67%. Oubre 59%, and Rubio 53%.

I think he will likely be a 40% 3 pt shooter or very close to it this year too. When he started out with that hitch, he shot like 21-22% through November. After that, he shot about 39% the rest of the season once he fixed his shot. He also shot 43.5% from 3 his last year in college.

Then of course his defense.

Ayton's development though, is probably of most key importance to the team's trajectory. If he can make big strides, that will move us further. He is also very important, and according to a pod I listened to today, we are already 4 points better per 100 possessions when he is on the floor, best of the team so that means he's pretty important. Though some of that probably had to do with how bad we were when Ayton and Baynes were out and we were starting Kaminsky at C.


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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#107 » by TouchPassDario » Fri Mar 5, 2021 2:24 pm

Revived wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
phx#7 wrote:
This is pretty much exactly how I feel. I think Ayton is actually the most important piece of the team because of what you said. The way he develops and how close he gets to reaching his potential is directly related to whether or not the team can become a legit contender or just a competitive playoff team.

Booker is the best player
Ayton is the most important
Mikal is my favorite


I'm not sure I agree with Ayton making a difference to the long-term team ceiling. The last two champs, Toronto and Golden State rely on wing players to get it done. The growth of Bridges, Cam Johnson, or the addition of another legit wing scorer who can create their own offense is what I think will happen eventually. Obviously, Ayton could have a huge offensive epiphany next season but if it never happens I'm less worried that his ceiling defines the Suns ceiling. So long as we can get to the playoffs with him we can attract a star free agent or trade for one to raise the team ceiling.

This. I don’t think people understand that big lofers are becoming obsolete in the NBA.

Joel Embiid just got send by a Boston Celtics team which has Daniel Theis and Enes Kanter as its best big men. The man that everyone refers to as the best center in the NBA, Nikola Jokic, is about to be send home in the first round. Jusuf Nurkic, another top 10 center, has been getting wrecked in the playoffs. Steven Adams looks clueless out there against a rotation which features 6’5 PJ Tucker as the best big man.

Rudy Gobert has been the only traditional C that’s having a good playoff run and even that is coming to an end next round because the Mavs or Clippers will take advantage of him with their wing players.

In terms of bigs, this league is now about guys like Siakam, Davis and Porzingis aka excellent rim protector with the ability to switch onto wings periodically and hit 3s. His teammate, and a personal favorite of mine Maxi Kleber does this as well (not as good a rim protector but still).

Brandon Clarke is about to be the next Porzingis. We need bigs of this caliber and Ayton’s not gonna be it.


Laughed hard.

Really, the three best players in the NBA now are Jokic, Embiid, and Giannis. AD is right there, too. Durant is 6’ 10” and probably needs to be guarded by an elite athletic big given his length. An elite defensive big has not been this important since the 90s.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#108 » by Funky Tut » Fri Mar 5, 2021 2:25 pm

Ayton, because he was a number 1 pick. He is starting to find his groove, just wait 2-3 more years, the same thing I said about Book, just wait a couple more years after their first few seasons. Big men take time, and DeAndre is already proving he can be an elite-level big man in the NBA in time.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#109 » by TouchPassDario » Fri Mar 5, 2021 2:31 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
I'm not sure I agree with Ayton making a difference to the long-term team ceiling. The last two champs, Toronto and Golden State rely on wing players to get it done. The growth of Bridges, Cam Johnson, or the addition of another legit wing scorer who can create their own offense is what I think will happen eventually. Obviously, Ayton could have a huge offensive epiphany next season but if it never happens I'm less worried that his ceiling defines the Suns ceiling. So long as we can get to the playoffs with him we can attract a star free agent or trade for one to raise the team ceiling.

This. I don’t think people understand that big lofers are becoming obsolete in the NBA.

Joel Embiid just got send by a Boston Celtics team which has Daniel Theis and Enes Kanter as its best big men. The man that everyone refers to as the best center in the NBA, Nikola Jokic, is about to be send home in the first round. Jusuf Nurkic, another top 10 center, has been getting wrecked in the playoffs. Steven Adams looks clueless out there against a rotation which features 6’5 PJ Tucker as the best big man.

Rudy Gobert has been the only traditional C that’s having a good playoff run and even that is coming to an end next round because the Mavs or Clippers will take advantage of him with their wing players.

In terms of bigs, this league is now about guys like Siakam, Davis and Porzingis aka excellent rim protector with the ability to switch onto wings periodically and hit 3s. His teammate, and a personal favorite of mine Maxi Kleber does this as well (not as good a rim protector but still).

Brandon Clarke is about to be the next Porzingis. We need bigs of this caliber and Ayton’s not gonna be it.


Joel Embiid is playing with Shake Milton as his PG. We all know how much not having a PG matters. And Ben Simmons is among the best. It's weird everyone talking about Philly blowing up their team or trading Simmons when they got knocked out because he was INJURED. Last year they were a crazy Kawhi shot from knocking out the eventual champs in 7.

Embiid is their best player. They messed up with their roster a bit but that doesn't mean it's Embiid's fault. If Simmons was playing that series would have been a lot better.

If Boston was missing Tatum and Philly had Simmons and Philly swept, I don't know if people would be saying Boston should blow it up.

Jokic is playing one of the other best centers in the NBA who is on fire, Gobert...the best defensive anchor....who has been really efficient.

Now, Gobert has been deemed useless in the playoffs before against a small ball team like Houston, so we will see. I think Ayton would not be deemed as useless in such a scenario because he can switch.

This whole question about most important is tough, because if Ayton has a really good game, and everyone else just plays normal, we have A LOT better chance of winning. But Bridges and is defense and high IQ is there every night, and if we didn't have that to count on, I don't know where we'd be either since our defense wouldn't be terribly strong otherwise.

Bridges has our best on/off. Before he started with Oubre, we didn't look that good, while Oubre was starting with Saric...and then when Bridges was starting with Cam, the killer lineup continued. Ayton had always been in this lineup.


StephCurryOnSkates.gif too. Basketball is all about match-ups. Sometimes Ayton can’t guard Harden or LaMelo as we saw, and we may have to adjust. But NOBODY on our team has a consistent chance against Embiid, Joker, AD, Giannis, KD except DA. Maybe a Saric in spots on the slower ones, and Mikal in spots against the lankier ones. Jae occasionally. DA is enormously valuable for what he can do that others can’t. There are some things he struggles with (at times) that others don’t. But he at least gets you in the door of guarding elite length and size.

Rudy reminds me of Ayton a bit, so thought I’d throw this out there for some more context:

Read on Twitter


I suspect there’s a very similar reel for DA. But everyone focuses solely on Harden cooking him late.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#110 » by TouchPassDario » Fri Mar 5, 2021 2:43 pm

darmani wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
darmani wrote:LOL

These pull-up shooting numbers literally show that Oubre is efficient when he's creating his own shot and he doesn't take these shots as often as Oubre's detractors claim he does.

Oubre's 45.8 FG% on drives (similar to players like Tatum 46.6% or Siakam 44.2%) is significantly higher than Mikal's 39.6% despite the fact that he drives to the basket twice as often.

Oubre had only 20 turnovers on 336 drives, Mikal had 19 turnovers on 211 drives. Oubre last season had 1 turnover on drives per 95 minutes of playing time but from reading your posts you would think it happened on every other possession.

It's completely ridiculous to mention "Oubre's wide open fast break dunks people feed him" when Mikal made maybe 10 unassisted baskets at the rim whole season.


I don't care what you are trying to literally show about pull ups. I never mentioned pull ups. If you are saying he doesn't do that a lot, then whoever was claiming he was good at creating his own shot I guess was wrong.

And by the way, an eFG% of 51.9% is below the league avg of 52.9%.

That drive % isn't impressive, though. I do see that he drives a lot. He's just not good at it. He ranks 11th in drive FG% on the team. Now Booker's good at it, at 51.4%, so you can see he does it a lot. No one else on our team other than Oubre does it much, as you have to be crafty to be efficient at a fairly high %, like Booker.

I am not sure what you are trying to argue. I'm not arguing that Bridges is good at creating his own shot. I'm just saying that Oubre may "create his own shot" or try to, as people claim, but he's not efficient.

Players and thus the whole team are going to be far more efficient if they play within the team concept and system and work off each other, assist each other, etc.

I know you are trying to cherry pick different categories to favorably compare Oubre's FG% to Bridges.

The point is, Bridges overall is FAR FAR more efficient. Just look at the total, not some cherry picked #s trying to make someone look good.

Bridges TS% 62%, Oubre's TS% 56%, League avg 56.5%

Or if you want to go by eFG%, Bridges 58.3%, Oubre 51.7%, League avg 52.9%

Oubre is a positive presence, good energy guy, good locker room presence, likable guy our best lineups included him, though Cam replacing him in that lineup in the bubble was solid too...not quite AS impressive via pt differential, but still very impressive despite Ayton's subpar play.

He may score a lot of points, but does so at below avg league efficiency. So if everyone on our team scored at his rate, Now, being slightly below avg in efficiency on a bad team might look good, but if we want to be an above average or good team, we need to be more efficient.

My God, you are dense. Do you understand what pull-up shooting is? It IS creating your own shot. 52.9% is league average eFG% on all shots. On pull-ups it's much, MUCH lower. In eFG% on pull ups Oubre ranks 10th in the league out of 149 players with more than 100 pull up FGAs.

Oubre scores 0.92 PPP (same as Booker) as a pick and roll ball handler in 153 possessions. That puts him in the 68th percentile in the NBA and above players like Warren, Ingram, Hield, LaVine, Dinwiddie, Russell, Fox, Murray, Morant, Butler, VanVleet, Jrue and Rubio. Mikal Bridges is at 0.83 PPP in a pathetic 30 possessions.

And give me a break about Mikal's TS% and eFG%. Dude takes 6 shots per game and made 43 unassisted baskets whole year...


This is a lot of words and numbers to say Oubre isn’t a guy you want to be your offensive engine, or your #2 option. The more relevant information for a tertiary offensive option is (1) ast/tov rate; (2) spot up shooting ability (3) ability to attack close outs and finish/make plays. I don’t want a mediocre pull-up shooter taking shots even if he is better than a less than mediocre pull-up shooter. They’re both bad shots taken by bad offenses. Role matching skill sets is massive for team success.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#111 » by TouchPassDario » Fri Mar 5, 2021 2:46 pm

darmani wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
darmani wrote:Oubre scores 0.92 PPP (same as Booker) as a pick and roll ball handler in 153 possessions. That puts him in the 68th percentile in the NBA and above players like Warren, Ingram, Hield, LaVine, Dinwiddie, Russell, Fox, Murray, Morant, Butler, VanVleet, Jrue and Rubio. Mikal Bridges is at 0.83 PPP in a pathetic 30 possessions.

And give me a break about Mikal's TS% and eFG%. Dude takes 6 shots per game and made 43 unassisted baskets whole year...


I'll ignore the cheap personal attack this time, and repeating with the cherry picking. I never mentioned playing the pick and roll so not sure where that argumentn is coming from...and these constantly moving goal posts.

I simply mentioned that trying to create your own shot is less efficient than playing within the offense....and that the eFG% he has doing that is less than league avg efficiency, yes, of ALL shots, so it's not a good idea. If someone is a lot better than league avg efficiency at pulling up, fine, I guess it's worth doing, but there are only a handful of players that are.

Oh the merciful mod. Thank you for your forgiveness.

Who's moving the goal posts? Scoring on pull up jump shots IS creating your own shot. Scoring as a pick and roll ball handler IS creating your own shot. Oubre IS efficient at crating his own shot. EOT.

What exactly does it mean "playing within the offense"? A team full of players with Mikal's offensive skill set would struggle to score 70 points, no matter how high his eFG% on 6 FGA per game is. You can't build a team just with role players who rely on others to create their offense. Your argument that a player with MIkal's shot profile is more valuable on offense than someone like Oubre is dumb as ****. Offensive self-creation is the most important skill in basketball and Oubre is above average at it.


Nah. He’s mediocre at it. Above-average is just another way of glossing mediocre. No NBA offense is ever sniffing the top10 with Oubre creating offense. Now, Paul and Booker shouldering that load? Yup.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#112 » by TouchPassDario » Fri Mar 5, 2021 2:56 pm

Qwigglez wrote:I don't think advanced stats tell the entire story. Bridges again has the easiest spoon-fed shots in the world. He has Rubio, Booker, and Ayton who can feed him. Even watching any of Bridges highlights most of his shots are wide open. Watch Oubre's highlights and you'll see him make jumpers with a defender all over him, he'll make a higher degree of difficult shots. This will be especially important come playoff time. A good example to me is looking at Kris Middleton who has a similar game style to Mikal Bridges. Both players have 62% TS, yet in the playoffs this year KM had under a 51% TS. I see it as Middleton can't maintain the same level of efficiency because the opposing teams make it more challenging for system players like Middleton to get in a groove. I could see Bridges having a similar issue.

I'm really not trying to knock Bridges either, but I think there is a reason he only takes 6.6 shots per game. He's a passive player and he plays to what he knows he's good at. I'm glad to have both Oubre and Bridges on the team, and we can even have this argument. A lot better than arguing about Josh Jackson and Dragan Bender and who's the more important piece.


This is interesting. I have thoughts.

1. Positional awareness and role recognition and execution are major components of getting open; it’s not just great player drives and draws help. We know Mikal understands space, how to deploy it to his benefit, so that when a creator moves and secondary actions germinate, he is able to “fill” and suddenly he’s open. Bucket.

2. As to Oubre’s tough shot-making ability. That’s a bug, not a feature, if your TS% on those shots is still mediocre in the context of a well-run offense with elite creation and well spaced role players. I also think “watch Oubre’s highlights” and you’ll see him make tough shots is just begging for an eye test bias reassessment. NBA.com/stats has numbers for players guarded closely or not, at various degrees. I trust large samples. I strongly suspect Oubre is not an outlier tough shot maker b/c his TS% is mediocre on non-dunk shots.

3. Khris Middleton is much more of an isolation scorer than a spot-up shooter. He has the ball a ton. More like Oubre than Bridges. Also, fun with sample sizes. He had a 72% TS in 2018 playoffs.

4. I think the reasons Mikal took 6.6 shots per year last year were more indicative of his intelligence and awareness than an indication of his inability. He knew the ball should be in Rubio’s hands. Book should shoot. Ayton and Oubre were designated secondary options. He didn’t force shots. That’s a skill. Moving without the ball has a multiplier effect on an offense. He did it. Don’t always get the ball, but you may open a lane for someone to score or make a play.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#113 » by TouchPassDario » Fri Mar 5, 2021 2:58 pm

Midnight_Suns wrote:I believe someone has already mentioned it in this thread, but one need not look further than the lineups of teams who have done well this post-season to realize that an either/or conversation about Bridges/Cam/Oubre is ridiculous. This is a wing player's league and having three such players who can shoot, guard the 1-4 positions, and move off ball is a beautiful position to be in. All three of these dudes are 24 or younger and still have room to improve their game. Yes, Kelly has severe tunnel vision but there is no reason to believe that he cannot improve that facet of his game. Bridges is obviously the most valuable of the three for our future but I pray that our front office finds a way to keep them all long term. Kelly's effect on the culture of this team is arguably the most important thing that has happened over the last year.


Oubre can’t really guard anyone. He’s also awful off-ball.

Cam has really improved defensively.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#114 » by Revived » Fri Mar 5, 2021 4:49 pm

TouchPassDario wrote:
Revived wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
I'm not sure I agree with Ayton making a difference to the long-term team ceiling. The last two champs, Toronto and Golden State rely on wing players to get it done. The growth of Bridges, Cam Johnson, or the addition of another legit wing scorer who can create their own offense is what I think will happen eventually. Obviously, Ayton could have a huge offensive epiphany next season but if it never happens I'm less worried that his ceiling defines the Suns ceiling. So long as we can get to the playoffs with him we can attract a star free agent or trade for one to raise the team ceiling.

This. I don’t think people understand that big lofers are becoming obsolete in the NBA.

Joel Embiid just got send by a Boston Celtics team which has Daniel Theis and Enes Kanter as its best big men. The man that everyone refers to as the best center in the NBA, Nikola Jokic, is about to be send home in the first round. Jusuf Nurkic, another top 10 center, has been getting wrecked in the playoffs. Steven Adams looks clueless out there against a rotation which features 6’5 PJ Tucker as the best big man.

Rudy Gobert has been the only traditional C that’s having a good playoff run and even that is coming to an end next round because the Mavs or Clippers will take advantage of him with their wing players.

In terms of bigs, this league is now about guys like Siakam, Davis and Porzingis aka excellent rim protector with the ability to switch onto wings periodically and hit 3s. His teammate, and a personal favorite of mine Maxi Kleber does this as well (not as good a rim protector but still).

Brandon Clarke is about to be the next Porzingis. We need bigs of this caliber and Ayton’s not gonna be it.


Laughed hard.

Really, the three best players in the NBA now are Jokic, Embiid, and Giannis. AD is right there, too. Durant is 6’ 10” and probably needs to be guarded by an elite athletic big given his length. An elite defensive big has not been this important since the 90s.

Man, it must have taken you quite some time to find this 7 month old post. You really are a troll and I should’ve already followed the advice of others who already blocked you.

It’s a sign of a good team to have trolls back though. Nobody cares enough to troll when we’re a bad team. But we had plenty during the SSOL era, and I’m sure we’ll get plenty more. :thumbsup:
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#115 » by TouchPassDario » Fri Mar 5, 2021 5:15 pm

What are you talking about?

1. The thread was recently bumped, so I read it for context.
2. You were laughably wrong about Jokic going out early, and about the importance of the big man in the modern NBA.
3. I posted content analyzing that point

Don’t conflate you being butthurt with “trolling”. Be better.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#116 » by TouchPassDario » Fri Mar 5, 2021 5:16 pm

Some of the fans here are hyper sensitive snowflakes that bristle at the slightest challenge.

Glad the Suns players are more resilient!
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#117 » by bwgood77 » Fri Mar 5, 2021 6:28 pm

TouchPassDario wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:In a twitter poll this was asked and Rubio won in a landslide....though that was talking about strictly this season I believe.

This is a tough question and I have always kind of hated terms like "#1 option" and having to pick the most important.

I think Ayton and Bridges are both very important. I would say if I had to pick one to keep and one to trade I'd definitely keep Bridges thinking Ayton would have more trade value, but honestly I'm not absolutely sure he would. I think Mikal has very very high upside. I'm talking like premier defenders/finishers/3 pt shooters in the league and he's a very good passer with a sky high bbiq.

Bridges is our best finisher at the rim at about 75%. Booker and Ayton are around 72%, Johnson 71%, Saric 67%. Oubre 59%, and Rubio 53%.

I think he will likely be a 40% 3 pt shooter or very close to it this year too. When he started out with that hitch, he shot like 21-22% through November. After that, he shot about 39% the rest of the season once he fixed his shot. He also shot 43.5% from 3 his last year in college.

Then of course his defense.

Ayton's development though, is probably of most key importance to the team's trajectory. If he can make big strides, that will move us further. He is also very important, and according to a pod I listened to today, we are already 4 points better per 100 possessions when he is on the floor, best of the team so that means he's pretty important. Though some of that probably had to do with how bad we were when Ayton and Baynes were out and we were starting Kaminsky at C.


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Well if you are going to respond to a post from months ago, of course it relate to months ago. I hate when old quotes are quoted to prove something later, though I am not sure I understand intent. Culture was mostly good...we heard rumblings about Oubre later but he seemed like a good piece for the team during the season, just at odds with the FO, likely due to how much he should get paid. That being said, glad we didn't keep him if he would have had a similar start to the season as he did in GS (though at the time I was saying I would consider not trading for CP3 if a future potential unprotected pick was involved IF we could also flip Oubre for Gordon) but was fine with the CP3 trade too.

Obviously I'm glad we did the trade and had no idea we would also sign Crowder and get Nader to do a lot of what Oubre did anyway at a fraction of the price...production per dollar no doubt favors Nader far more heavily.
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#118 » by bwgood77 » Fri Mar 5, 2021 6:42 pm

Calvin Klein wrote:Eddie Johnson speaking what we all say about Ayton (super passive, afraid of contact, etc) on the Lowe Post so we're not that crazy after all. I don't know if he'll ever change that about him but it would make all the difference in the world.


Yeah, (your offensive comment addressed at bottom of post), but I liked he said a lot of what I have said...when mentioned slight regression on defense (Lowe), EJ mentioned a lot of people in his ear...he didn't elaborate on why that would make someone regress, but I have mentioned why I think this happens is because Ayton tries to absorb all this info and works hard, and he sometimes thinks too much on D..over thinks things....and has a little of that paralysis by analysis.

Last year he became more instinctual on D after working on it in the offseason and suspension watching Baynes play....but this year absorbing a ton of info from Paul and thinking things...I think it begins to become more instinctual after the break and gets better and better.

Another thing EJ said about his offense is that he's not worried about it because he thinks it will come, and he doesn't need to score too much now because we have plenty of scorers. I've said this at all..so much discussion here on his offense and what he needs to improve, but a lot of the stuff mentioned is what I've seen before so he has it.

Though EJ did say people want the dominating hard dunks, but he is more of a finesse player (I think used an effective example) and also said he does need to finish and agreed he needed to get to the line more, but he has gotten to the line about 4x a game in his last 5 games, so has been improving there, and is 16-19, over 80%.
TouchPassDario
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Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#119 » by TouchPassDario » Fri Mar 5, 2021 8:07 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
TouchPassDario wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:In a twitter poll this was asked and Rubio won in a landslide....though that was talking about strictly this season I believe.

This is a tough question and I have always kind of hated terms like "#1 option" and having to pick the most important.

I think Ayton and Bridges are both very important. I would say if I had to pick one to keep and one to trade I'd definitely keep Bridges thinking Ayton would have more trade value, but honestly I'm not absolutely sure he would. I think Mikal has very very high upside. I'm talking like premier defenders/finishers/3 pt shooters in the league and he's a very good passer with a sky high bbiq.

Bridges is our best finisher at the rim at about 75%. Booker and Ayton are around 72%, Johnson 71%, Saric 67%. Oubre 59%, and Rubio 53%.

I think he will likely be a 40% 3 pt shooter or very close to it this year too. When he started out with that hitch, he shot like 21-22% through November. After that, he shot about 39% the rest of the season once he fixed his shot. He also shot 43.5% from 3 his last year in college.

Then of course his defense.

Ayton's development though, is probably of most key importance to the team's trajectory. If he can make big strides, that will move us further. He is also very important, and according to a pod I listened to today, we are already 4 points better per 100 possessions when he is on the floor, best of the team so that means he's pretty important. Though some of that probably had to do with how bad we were when Ayton and Baynes were out and we were starting Kaminsky at C.


6.5 months ago.
Never let anyone tell you that environment and culture don’t matter.


Well if you are going to respond to a post from months ago, of course it relate to months ago. I hate when old quotes are quoted to prove something later, though I am not sure I understand intent. Culture was mostly good...we heard rumblings about Oubre later but he seemed like a good piece for the team during the season, just at odds with the FO, likely due to how much he should get paid. That being said, glad we didn't keep him if he would have had a similar start to the season as he did in GS (though at the time I was saying I would consider not trading for CP3 if a future potential unprotected pick was involved IF we could also flip Oubre for Gordon) but was fine with the CP3 trade too.

Obviously I'm glad we did the trade and had no idea we would also sign Crowder and get Nader to do a lot of what Oubre did anyway at a fraction of the price...production per dollar no doubt favors Nader far more heavily.


My intent was simply to show how much Rubio’s performance was impacted by playing here as opposed to in a lethargic environment like Minnesota. I would have voted the same way back then regarding Ricky.

I really believe the Suns are building a program that can survive Paul’s departure in a year or two.
TouchPassDario
Pro Prospect
Posts: 821
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Joined: Feb 14, 2021

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#120 » by TouchPassDario » Fri Mar 5, 2021 8:09 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Calvin Klein wrote:Eddie Johnson speaking what we all say about Ayton (super passive, afraid of contact, etc) on the Lowe Post so we're not that crazy after all. I don't know if he'll ever change that about him but it would make all the difference in the world.


Yeah, (your offensive comment addressed at bottom of post), but I liked he said a lot of what I have said...when mentioned slight regression on defense (Lowe), EJ mentioned a lot of people in his ear...he didn't elaborate on why that would make someone regress, but I have mentioned why I think this happens is because Ayton tries to absorb all this info and works hard, and he sometimes thinks too much on D..over thinks things....and has a little of that paralysis by analysis.

Last year he became more instinctual on D after working on it in the offseason and suspension watching Baynes play....but this year absorbing a ton of info from Paul and thinking things...I think it begins to become more instinctual after the break and gets better and better.

Another thing EJ said about his offense is that he's not worried about it because he thinks it will come, and he doesn't need to score too much now because we have plenty of scorers. I've said this at all..so much discussion here on his offense and what he needs to improve, but a lot of the stuff mentioned is what I've seen before so he has it.

Though EJ did say people want the dominating hard dunks, but he is more of a finesse player (I think used an effective example) and also said he does need to finish and agreed he needed to get to the line more, but he has gotten to the line about 4x a game in his last 5 games, so has been improving there, and is 16-19, over 80%.


Good observation. He has been seeking contact more noticeably lately. Not saying that’s always a good thing, but it should bear fruit in his FTr if he keeps it up.

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