ImageImageImage

Who is the second most important piece of our core?

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22, Kerrsed

Second most important player in our young core

Ayton
45
61%
Bridges
29
39%
 
Total votes: 74

LesGrossman
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,950
And1: 3,117
Joined: Mar 24, 2014
   

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#81 » by LesGrossman » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:26 pm

Its so absolutely absurd and at the same time typical for our day and age to compare Oubre and Bridges and look at their shooting statistics. The main issue with Oubre will hardly be found in any statistic; he is a head case who cant control what he does, while Mikal is a team first / defense first guy everyone loves to have on their roster. Oubre breaks plays up in crunch time to be "the guy" and Bridges doesnt. Therse absolultey nothing wrong with Oubres shot, handle, athletics or otherwise physical aspects no matter how long you seek.
sunsbg
Starter
Posts: 2,096
And1: 1,318
Joined: Feb 29, 2016

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#82 » by sunsbg » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:21 pm

LesGrossman wrote:Its so absolutely absurd and at the same time typical for our day and age to compare Oubre and Bridges and look at their shooting statistics. The main issue with Oubre will hardly be found in any statistic; he is a head case who cant control what he does, while Mikal is a team first / defense first guy everyone loves to have on their roster. Oubre breaks plays up in crunch time to be "the guy" and Bridges doesnt. Therse absolultey nothing wrong with Oubres shot, handle, athletics or otherwise physical aspects no matter how long you seek.


Off-topic, why you hate Lebron so much (based on your sig and posts on GB) ? You seem to like Luka, who also tries very hard to be "the guy" all the time. Just curious, how do you compare those two ?
LesGrossman
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,950
And1: 3,117
Joined: Mar 24, 2014
   

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#83 » by LesGrossman » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:41 pm

sunsbg wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:Its so absolutely absurd and at the same time typical for our day and age to compare Oubre and Bridges and look at their shooting statistics. The main issue with Oubre will hardly be found in any statistic; he is a head case who cant control what he does, while Mikal is a team first / defense first guy everyone loves to have on their roster. Oubre breaks plays up in crunch time to be "the guy" and Bridges doesnt. Therse absolultey nothing wrong with Oubres shot, handle, athletics or otherwise physical aspects no matter how long you seek.


Off-topic, why you hate Lebron so much (based on your sig and posts on GB) ? You seem to like Luka, who also tries very hard to be "the guy" all the time. Just curious, how do you compare those two ?

I was a big lebron fan until he pulled off "the decision". I dont mind guys trying to lead their team, Booker tries to do it, Mitchell tries, thats not the issue. Some aspects i really really dislike
- acting entitled like he literally owns the league and gets to play by his own rules, and the league acts accordingly, he literally talked about "those players below me" in a bubble zoom meeting
- calling yourself the G.O.A.T., "the chosen one" and so on, and then give up and join multiple all stars to play in the weak east...didnt even have the balls to take part in a single dunk contest but shows off at every opportunity
- disrespecting the game and playing for the cameras, the show and the numbers
- brainwash for the last 15+ years by league, media and fans as if all he does is perfect, when he gets everything he wants and still is 3-6.

Most of this Luka cant be accused of, or Booker.
sunsbg
Starter
Posts: 2,096
And1: 1,318
Joined: Feb 29, 2016

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#84 » by sunsbg » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:44 am

LesGrossman wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:Its so absolutely absurd and at the same time typical for our day and age to compare Oubre and Bridges and look at their shooting statistics. The main issue with Oubre will hardly be found in any statistic; he is a head case who cant control what he does, while Mikal is a team first / defense first guy everyone loves to have on their roster. Oubre breaks plays up in crunch time to be "the guy" and Bridges doesnt. Therse absolultey nothing wrong with Oubres shot, handle, athletics or otherwise physical aspects no matter how long you seek.


Off-topic, why you hate Lebron so much (based on your sig and posts on GB) ? You seem to like Luka, who also tries very hard to be "the guy" all the time. Just curious, how do you compare those two ?

I was a big lebron fan until he pulled off "the decision". I dont mind guys trying to lead their team, Booker tries to do it, Mitchell tries, thats not the issue. Some aspects i really really dislike
- acting entitled like he literally owns the league and gets to play by his own rules, and the league acts accordingly, he literally talked about "those players below me" in a bubble zoom meeting
- calling yourself the G.O.A.T., "the chosen one" and so on, and then give up and join multiple all stars to play in the weak east...didnt even have the balls to take part in a single dunk contest but shows off at every opportunity
- disrespecting the game and playing for the cameras, the show and the numbers
- brainwash for the last 15+ years by league, media and fans as if all he does is perfect, when he gets everything he wants and still is 3-6.

Most of this Luka cant be accused of, or Booker.


I see, so mostly off-court issues with Lebron. You often criticized Booker for not playing team ball, so was curious if you have the same standards for the other stars in the league.
LesGrossman
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,950
And1: 3,117
Joined: Mar 24, 2014
   

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#85 » by LesGrossman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:27 am

sunsbg wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
Off-topic, why you hate Lebron so much (based on your sig and posts on GB) ? You seem to like Luka, who also tries very hard to be "the guy" all the time. Just curious, how do you compare those two ?

I was a big lebron fan until he pulled off "the decision". I dont mind guys trying to lead their team, Booker tries to do it, Mitchell tries, thats not the issue. Some aspects i really really dislike
- acting entitled like he literally owns the league and gets to play by his own rules, and the league acts accordingly, he literally talked about "those players below me" in a bubble zoom meeting
- calling yourself the G.O.A.T., "the chosen one" and so on, and then give up and join multiple all stars to play in the weak east...didnt even have the balls to take part in a single dunk contest but shows off at every opportunity
- disrespecting the game and playing for the cameras, the show and the numbers
- brainwash for the last 15+ years by league, media and fans as if all he does is perfect, when he gets everything he wants and still is 3-6.

Most of this Luka cant be accused of, or Booker.


I see, so mostly off-court issues with Lebron. You often criticized Booker for not playing team ball, so was curious if you have the same standards for the other stars in the league.

I'm generally not a fan of an offense that is completely built around one guy. Not a pleasure to watch. That being said it can work if that guy has the skillset, but i dont see Booker in that role. He does not have the skills that Luka has, or Harden. He has other, comparably valuable skills that have to be put in the best position to succeed by someone else, whereas those other guys fare best when handling the ball themselves. Dunno what that has to do with LeBron though, because he has not half of those scoring abilities of either of those guys.
RunDogGun
RealGM
Posts: 13,256
And1: 2,483
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Location: Beyond the Sun
       

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#86 » by RunDogGun » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:54 pm

Qwigglez wrote:^Precisely. I don't see Bridges being disgruntled because he hasn't been given an opportunity to showcase his offensive talents. I think he has been given the opportunity and he's doing what he does best. Though I do hope he continues to be more aggressive like he did in the bubble where he averaged almost 10 shots a game, shooting 48% FG, 40% 3PT, and averaging 13 points a game. I don't expect Oubre to hinder Bridges development at all.

From what I watched, they seemed to feed off of each other, and the team as a whole benefitted from their presence on the floor. What I liked about watching the lineup of Rubio, Booker, Bridges, Oubre/Cam, Ayton, there was more emphasis on team ball. Everyone relied on each other, and team chemistry made that squad play well. Starting with those guys set a tone early, and the rest of the team has/had the opportunity to match that tone. If we had a full season of that lineup, we would have made the playoffs.

So I guess I don't really care who is our #1, #2...etc, just as long as they all hustle and play as a team. I really felt that Oubre gave the team heart and drive, and Bridges was the glue to hold it all together. I liked how Cam stepped in, but overall the pairing of Bridges and Oubre was the key to success. I am still concerned that Ayton is too passive at times, and lacks a killer mindset. Hopefully that changes as he matures.
Midnight_Suns
Pro Prospect
Posts: 960
And1: 952
Joined: Jan 11, 2015
Location: PDX
 

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#87 » by Midnight_Suns » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:53 pm

I believe someone has already mentioned it in this thread, but one need not look further than the lineups of teams who have done well this post-season to realize that an either/or conversation about Bridges/Cam/Oubre is ridiculous. This is a wing player's league and having three such players who can shoot, guard the 1-4 positions, and move off ball is a beautiful position to be in. All three of these dudes are 24 or younger and still have room to improve their game. Yes, Kelly has severe tunnel vision but there is no reason to believe that he cannot improve that facet of his game. Bridges is obviously the most valuable of the three for our future but I pray that our front office finds a way to keep them all long term. Kelly's effect on the culture of this team is arguably the most important thing that has happened over the last year.
RunDogGun
RealGM
Posts: 13,256
And1: 2,483
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Location: Beyond the Sun
       

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#88 » by RunDogGun » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:49 pm

Midnight_Suns wrote:I believe someone has already mentioned it in this thread, but one need not look further than the lineups of teams who have done well this post-season to realize that an either/or conversation about Bridges/Cam/Oubre is ridiculous. This is a wing player's league and having three such players who can shoot, guard the 1-4 positions, and move off ball is a beautiful position to be in. All three of these dudes are 24 or younger and still have room to improve their game. Yes, Kelly has severe tunnel vision but there is no reason to believe that he cannot improve that facet of his game. Bridges is obviously the most valuable of the three for our future but I pray that our front office finds a way to keep them all long term. Kelly's effect on the culture of this team is arguably the most important thing that has happened over the last year.


I agree. It was awesome that Cam stepped up. I feel a lot of that came from working with Bridges.
User avatar
bigfoot
Suns Forum Anti-Tank Commander
Posts: 8,405
And1: 4,926
Joined: Sep 16, 2010
 

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#89 » by bigfoot » Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:19 am

Bump
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 72,379
And1: 41,693
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#90 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:22 am

I voted Bridges back then...he could end up being most important, however, I also mentioned that for us to become a contender where Ayton ends up might be more important, because I believe Bridges will be one of the better players in the NBA regardless. Maybe one of the best two way players in his prime...top defender in league with close to or more than 20 points on good efficiency because he takes smart shots. He is our highest IQ player of our main core (not counting Paul), and rarely turns it over or takes bad shots.

But we need Ayton to become a top 5 C to be a 2nd round playoff team.
Mulhollanddrive
General Manager
Posts: 8,980
And1: 5,905
Joined: Jan 19, 2013

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#91 » by Mulhollanddrive » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:13 pm

Ayton because he can turn us into a contender if he becomes a multiple All-Star.

However if that doesn't look like happening then Bridges as an important 3rd/4th glue guy.
User avatar
sunskerr
Head Coach
Posts: 7,096
And1: 3,241
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
 

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#92 » by sunskerr » Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:57 am

I'll be straight up honest I wanted to sign Wood and trade Ayton for another piece.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 24,718
And1: 12,794
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#93 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:34 am

The question I answered is who needs to become the second most important player (Ayton) but if the question is who is becoming the second most important player then it's undoubtedly Bridges
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
Revived
RealGM
Posts: 27,945
And1: 13,251
Joined: Feb 17, 2011

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#94 » by Revived » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:13 am

lilfishi22 wrote:The question I answered is who needs to become the second most important player (Ayton) but if the question is who is becoming the second most important player then it's undoubtedly Bridges

Yeah this one is a no brainer. If the poll was to be reset and everyone who voted the first time voted again, I’d like to see how the results would turn out.

If we still had Baynes or another solid fill in starter as C then Cam (Johnson) may be come up on Ayton in this poll as well. But because our current only option would be to start Kaminsky or Jones if Ayton was unavailable, Ayton still has a firm hold on the #3 spot.
Saberestar
RealGM
Posts: 14,227
And1: 9,660
Joined: May 21, 2010

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#95 » by Saberestar » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:16 am

lilfishi22 wrote:The question I answered is who needs to become the second most important player (Ayton) but if the question is who is becoming the second most important player then it's undoubtedly Bridges

I would say that our second most important player is CP3 and then Bridges.

After them I would put Ayton.
Bogyo
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,986
And1: 1,087
Joined: Jul 29, 2013

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#96 » by Bogyo » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:47 pm

Depends on the exact question and the narrative.
CP is our 2nd best player as of now. Even if he had a bad game in our 3 games so far. He will not be 2nd in the future. Age, contract.
Bridges is a close 3rd this season for sure. If he keeps this up, or even develops a bit he can be 2nd. IF!
Ayton should be 2nd easily. But we've seen him enough. If I were a betting man, I'd bet he will never be that. So we have to find it (trade Ayton for it), or develop Bridges that way.
Mulhollanddrive
General Manager
Posts: 8,980
And1: 5,905
Joined: Jan 19, 2013

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#97 » by Mulhollanddrive » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:35 pm

If everyone has a good season except Ayton we top out in the 2nd round.

The reason why Ayton is next behind Booker is that he is the only player that can elevate us to compete with the Lakers.
cberry78
Pro Prospect
Posts: 844
And1: 863
Joined: Apr 21, 2015
 

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#98 » by cberry78 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:11 pm

cberry78 wrote:Booker is definitely the #1 on this team. The best player and the most important.

Ayton is the second best player on the team, followed by Oubre or Bridges (depending on your outlook).

The second most important player on this team is a competent NBA PG. We've seen what Rubio has meant to this team all year and we just watched what Payne meant to the second unit during the bubble games. Without an NBA PG this team is staring 20-ish wins a year right in the face.

I still think this (from before the bubble). Swap out CamJ for Oubre, obviously, but Booker is easily #1 and DA is the more talented of that next group (w/ CamJ and Bridges), he just needs to put it all together consistently.

What we saw last year with Rubio has been improved upon by CP3 so far this year. The leadership that CP3 brings to this team is leagues beyond what RR did last year, and his understanding of the game is something that Suns fans haven't seen since Nash was here. Having a competent NBA PG as a starter is huge, and adding to that a competent backup PG in CamP has been invaluable to the team and the players' growth.

I said this in the game thread where we lost: "This team will be scary if we can figure out how to play on offense." And we saw what happened in game 3 in the second half when we started actually playing together.
WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 16,691
And1: 11,825
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#99 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:57 pm

cberry78 wrote:
cberry78 wrote:Booker is definitely the #1 on this team. The best player and the most important.

Ayton is the second best player on the team, followed by Oubre or Bridges (depending on your outlook).

The second most important player on this team is a competent NBA PG. We've seen what Rubio has meant to this team all year and we just watched what Payne meant to the second unit during the bubble games. Without an NBA PG this team is staring 20-ish wins a year right in the face.

I still think this (from before the bubble). Swap out CamJ for Oubre, obviously, but Booker is easily #1 and DA is the more talented of that next group (w/ CamJ and Bridges), he just needs to put it all together consistently.

What we saw last year with Rubio has been improved upon by CP3 so far this year. The leadership that CP3 brings to this team is leagues beyond what RR did last year, and his understanding of the game is something that Suns fans haven't seen since Nash was here. Having a competent NBA PG as a starter is huge, and adding to that a competent backup PG in CamP has been invaluable to the team and the players' growth.

I said this in the game thread where we lost: "This team will be scary if we can figure out how to play on offense." And we saw what happened in game 3 in the second half when we started actually playing together.
Good post. The line about Ayton being the most talented of the group after Booker did get me thinking and hot take but if Bridges keeps this up he might actually be the more 'talented' player. I used '' because talented is very subjective. My case would be Bridges is better at defense than any one thing that Ayton can do. Last year at this time Bridges was basically a 0 on offense but since the start of the bubble his offense has taken a leap and if THIS is the player hes to be going forward he might find himself on an all nba team at some point.

The other side of this is are we really sure Ayton is a really 'talented' offensive player? Like what offensive skill is he actually elite at? I guess touch for a 7 footer is probably the closest trait. I think he's pretty good at a lot of things, his post game is alright, I think he'll be an ok 3pt shooter for a big, in theory he should be a good roll man but I'm not sure he is. There's a real chance Ayton is just good at a ton of different things (defense included) but ultimately not really elite. Now that's still a very good productive profile and he'll have a long career and be a guy you want.

It would be ironic if out of that draft Ayton is actually the high end role player and Bridges is the star.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
Saberestar
RealGM
Posts: 14,227
And1: 9,660
Joined: May 21, 2010

Re: Who is the second most important piece of our core? 

Post#100 » by Saberestar » Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:56 pm

It is interesting that after 25 games both Bridges and Ayton average exactly 14.0 ppg and 1.0 bpg.

Bridges is playing 33 mpg and Ayton 32 mpg.
Both have been healthy and they have started at every game so far.

Mikal primary adds triples (.387 % on 5 attempts) and nice perimeter defense.

OTOH Ayton adds rebounding (12.3 rpg) and nice interior defense.

All in all both are making their case as a THIRD most important player of our core, after Book and CP3.

Return to Phoenix Suns