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Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step

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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1081 » by saintEscaton » Wed Jul 7, 2021 7:06 pm

DA is basically gunna end up being the Patrick Ewing to Jokic and Embiid who are in this case Hakeem and David Robinson. If he can becomeme a knockdown midrange shooter and stretch the floor enough to make corner threes he will be way better than KAT and a 20 points+/10+ rebounds 2-3 blocks per night guy on elite efficiency with All-NBA defense and perennial DPOY candidacy. That is my bold prediction. I was high on him in college even though I knew he wasn't a generational big but cooled down on him his first two years but this incredible playoff performance has me convinced that he is destined for stardom. He is something special but I would still have taken Doncic who is already Harden level to give us an amazing 1-2 wing punch with him and Booker and just get a veteran rim protector/floor runner center.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1082 » by sunsbg » Wed Jul 7, 2021 8:42 pm

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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1083 » by saintEscaton » Wed Jul 7, 2021 8:43 pm

Man, there are so many talented young centers around the league, it's a prime position with an overabundance/plethora of jewels including the likes of Bam. The pickings will only get better with each draft class infusing more bigs .
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1084 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Jul 7, 2021 9:49 pm

saintEscaton wrote:Man, there are so many talented young centers around the league, it's a prime position with an overabundance/plethora of jewels including the likes of Bam. The pickings will only get better with each draft class infusing more bigs .


First of all, Ayton>>>Bam.

Second, scoreboard's (hopefully! no jinx!) about to be 1 ring for DA against 0 for Embiid (bounced in 2nd), 0 for Jokic (swept by DA in 2nd), 0 for Gobert (exposed in 2nd).

Third, big men back in "the day" used to score more points, but on dramatically worse efficiency. The league is so different today that comparisons seem strained. All of Olajuwon, Robinson and Ewing had a go-to mid-range jumper that simply couldn't be shot in today's game - at least, not with the same volume.

A couple names that come to mind as comps to Ayton for me are Moses Malone and Bill Russell - two players I've never seen play, who dominated their eras with rebounding and defense. Bill Russell's such a different build and caliber of athlete that in several critical respects that comparison lacks substance - as does the Moses comparison, but for the opposite reason: the idea of Moses Malone chasing guards on the perimeter somehow seems wild to me.

Probably the best comparisons from a physical standpoint among players I've seen are Duncan, Ewing, Mutombo and Bill Walton. Importantly, Duncan could defend the perimeter as well as the paint, so in that sense, maybe he's the closest comp.

DA is just a kid about to get his first ring dominating the game with rebounding, defense and efficiency. There is no perfect comparison. His legacy will be his own. I ain't going ranking these guys all-time just yet, but if I have to, I'm looking at the scoreboard. If we win it this year with DA playing this way, I'll have DA currently ranked as the #1 center of his era. RINGZ BABY.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1085 » by saintEscaton » Wed Jul 7, 2021 10:05 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
saintEscaton wrote:Man, there are so many talented young centers around the league, it's a prime position with an overabundance/plethora of jewels including the likes of Bam. The pickings will only get better with each draft class infusing more bigs .


First of all, Ayton>>>Bam.

Second, scoreboard's (hopefully! no jinx!) about to be 1 ring for DA against 0 for Embiid (bounced in 2nd), 0 for Jokic (swept by DA in 2nd), 0 for Gobert (exposed in 2nd).

Third, big men back in "the day" used to score more points, but on dramatically worse efficiency. The league is so different today that comparisons seem strained. All of Olajuwon, Robinson and Ewing had a go-to mid-range jumper that simply couldn't be shot in today's game - at least, not with the same volume.

A couple names that come to mind as comps to Ayton for me are Moses Malone and Bill Russell - two players I've never seen play, who dominated their eras with rebounding and defense. Bill Russell's such a different build and caliber of athlete that in several critical respects that comparison lacks substance - as does the Moses comparison, but for the opposite reason: the idea of Moses Malone chasing guards on the perimeter somehow seems wild to me.

Probably the best comparisons from a physical standpoint among players I've seen are Duncan, Ewing, Mutombo and Bill Walton. Importantly, Duncan could defend the perimeter as well as the paint, so in that sense, maybe he's the closest comp.

DA is just a kid about to get his first ring dominating the game with rebounding, defense and efficiency. There is no perfect comparison. His legacy will be his own. I ain't going ranking these guys all-time just yet, but if I have to, I'm looking at the scoreboard. If we win it this year with DA playing this way, I'll have DA currently ranked as the #1 center of his era. RINGZ BABY.

DA is nowhere the tier of talent that Duncan was. We're talking about probably the greatest Power Forward turned center in league history. Just cauz Ayton managed to put a statistical accomplishment of a 15/15 slashline on a Finals Debut that got his name mentioned alongside the great one doesn't mean he is anywhere close to his level. That comparison is insulting and you a crazy homer who is blinded by delusion. I'm not taking Ayton over Jokic, Embiid, KAT and probably even Bam right now. He has to astronomically improve. Get outta here with that BS. Rings means nothing when he's not the focal point of an offense or the best player throughout an entire season he just happens to be our X-Factor and most consistent performer in the playoffs.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1086 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jul 7, 2021 10:58 pm

sunsbg wrote:
Read on Twitter


DA doesn't give a **** about individual accomplishments. The ultimate team guy.


I like Booker's reaction and then CP3 looks back at him like "What?"
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1087 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jul 8, 2021 3:24 am

saintEscaton wrote:DA is nowhere the tier of talent that Duncan was. We're talking about probably the greatest Power Forward turned center in league history. Just cauz Ayton managed to put a statistical accomplishment of a 15/15 slashline on a Finals Debut that got his name mentioned alongside the great one doesn't mean he is anywhere close to his level. That comparison is insulting and you a crazy homer who is blinded by delusion. I'm not taking Ayton over Jokic, Embiid, KAT and probably even Bam right now. He has to astronomically improve. Get outta here with that BS. Rings means nothing when he's not the focal point of an offense or the best player throughout an entire season he just happens to be our X-Factor and most consistent performer in the playoffs.


Yeah, I said a lot of words and none of them were Ayton is as good as Tim Duncan. I think he's way better than Bam, though, and I'm a Bam fan. The only guy on that list of centers Ayton doesn't best one-on-one is Embiid. Jokic is the MVP and I can't take that away from him, but Ayton defends him better than anyone in the whole damn league. Jokic is one of the league's most efficient scorers but he couldn't get anything to go against Ayton in our series. KAT had one great game against Ayton; in the other matchup this season, he couldn't get anything going. Embiid is the one opposing center I've seen Ayton struggle to defend.

None of this matters but the scoreboard. You plan to take that bag off your head at some point?

P.S. I acknowledge Duncan's greatness, but calling him the best PF-turned-C ever is weird, considering (1) I can't name other PFs-turned-C because it's not a thing, and (2) Duncan always was a center, IMO. The Spurs just played two of them. Call Hakeem Olajuwon a 4 and many would say he's the greatest 4 ever. Same with Russell. I have Duncan behind only Kareem and Shaq on my all-time centers list, though TBH I have no idea where to put Wilt. In terms of physical gifts the top tier guys I think are Kareem, Shaq, Wilt and Russell, arguably Robinson. I don't know how Wilt fits in the GOAT conversation. Scoreboard says 2 rings. (Russell's rings aren't worth the full weight IMO because there were only 8-9 teams throughout most of Russell's run. Them's slightly better odds.)
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1088 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jul 8, 2021 3:38 am

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
saintEscaton wrote:DA is nowhere the tier of talent that Duncan was. We're talking about probably the greatest Power Forward turned center in league history. Just cauz Ayton managed to put a statistical accomplishment of a 15/15 slashline on a Finals Debut that got his name mentioned alongside the great one doesn't mean he is anywhere close to his level. That comparison is insulting and you a crazy homer who is blinded by delusion. I'm not taking Ayton over Jokic, Embiid, KAT and probably even Bam right now. He has to astronomically improve. Get outta here with that BS. Rings means nothing when he's not the focal point of an offense or the best player throughout an entire season he just happens to be our X-Factor and most consistent performer in the playoffs.


Yeah, I said a lot of words and none of them were Ayton is as good as Tim Duncan. I think he's way better than Bam, though, and I'm a Bam fan. The only guy on that list of centers Ayton doesn't best one-on-one is Embiid. Jokic is the MVP and I can't take that away from him, but Ayton defends him better than anyone in the whole damn league. Jokic is one of the league's most efficient scorers but he couldn't get anything to go against Ayton in our series. KAT had one great game against Ayton; in the other matchup this season, he couldn't get anything going. Embiid is the one opposing center I've seen Ayton struggle to defend.

None of this matters but the scoreboard. You plan to take that bag off your head at some point?

P.S. I acknowledge Duncan's greatness, but calling him the best PF-turned-C ever is weird, considering (1) I can't name other PFs-turned-C because it's not a thing, and (2) Duncan always was a center, IMO. The Spurs just played two of them. Call Hakeem Olajuwon a 4 and many would say he's the greatest 4 ever. Same with Russell. I have Duncan behind only Kareem and Shaq on my all-time centers list, though TBH I have no idea where to put Wilt. In terms of physical gifts the top tier guys I think are Kareem, Shaq, Wilt and Russell, arguably Robinson. I don't know how Wilt fits in the GOAT conversation. Scoreboard says 2 rings. (Russell's rings aren't worth the full weight IMO because there were only 8-9 teams throughout most of Russell's run. Them's slightly better odds.)


It really depends on what you need out of a C. Jokic and to a lesser extent Bam are such great offensive initators that their value is beyond points and defense.

It's just really hard to compare all these guys apples to apples. Towns is best at one thing, Jokic at one, Gobert at one, Bam is on a lesser level because he can pass, but not like Jokic, but he can't hit 3s..he is a solid defender. Ayton is good at a lot of things. Probably the best perimeter defender but a great rebounder, screen setter (despite not setting hard screens..he is very effective and he used to stink at this), and great at contesting all sorts of shots without fouling...all over the court...almost the most versatile in the entire NBA at that given his size and agility.

A guy like Anthony Edwards would have a lot harder time playing with Ayton than Towns though...same with a lot of guys...guys that go to the rim a lot...even guys like Harden and Doncic might player better on offense with Towns even though Ayton provides a lot more on the other side...Ayton probably makes up for it..and not that those guys couldn't make it work with Ayton...they'd probably love to have a guy like that.

As for all time Cs list

Kareem is easily #1...so glad we lost that coin toss

2 is hard. I am probably not as high on Shaq as most...even though I have never feared playing against a player more. He couldn't hit free throws and was always out of shape. When he was in shape, he was great. In his early years from mid 90s through about 2002 he was great and he was really good for about 5 years after that.

Hard to really put him above Olajuwon and Robinson though. Olajuwon is probably better than Robinson...it's hard for me to remember those guys well.

I put Duncan on par with those. He seems most like Olajuwon though. Robinson was a bit more ferocious. Didn't Robinson score like 71 to take the scoring title from someone in the final game?

I didn't see Wilt and Russell at all. I generally think Russell might be a bit overrated if people have him like top 3 or 4 overall as a player...but I didn't watch those guys enough. I don't think many at that point in time, when those guys were playing, thought Russell was better than Wilt...they just thought he was on a lot better teams.

But then you have Bill Simmons Celts lover and Lord of the Ringzzzz almost solely determining how good a player is, and Russell vaults up.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1089 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jul 8, 2021 5:16 am

bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
saintEscaton wrote:DA is nowhere the tier of talent that Duncan was. We're talking about probably the greatest Power Forward turned center in league history. Just cauz Ayton managed to put a statistical accomplishment of a 15/15 slashline on a Finals Debut that got his name mentioned alongside the great one doesn't mean he is anywhere close to his level. That comparison is insulting and you a crazy homer who is blinded by delusion. I'm not taking Ayton over Jokic, Embiid, KAT and probably even Bam right now. He has to astronomically improve. Get outta here with that BS. Rings means nothing when he's not the focal point of an offense or the best player throughout an entire season he just happens to be our X-Factor and most consistent performer in the playoffs.


Yeah, I said a lot of words and none of them were Ayton is as good as Tim Duncan. I think he's way better than Bam, though, and I'm a Bam fan. The only guy on that list of centers Ayton doesn't best one-on-one is Embiid. Jokic is the MVP and I can't take that away from him, but Ayton defends him better than anyone in the whole damn league. Jokic is one of the league's most efficient scorers but he couldn't get anything to go against Ayton in our series. KAT had one great game against Ayton; in the other matchup this season, he couldn't get anything going. Embiid is the one opposing center I've seen Ayton struggle to defend.

None of this matters but the scoreboard. You plan to take that bag off your head at some point?

P.S. I acknowledge Duncan's greatness, but calling him the best PF-turned-C ever is weird, considering (1) I can't name other PFs-turned-C because it's not a thing, and (2) Duncan always was a center, IMO. The Spurs just played two of them. Call Hakeem Olajuwon a 4 and many would say he's the greatest 4 ever. Same with Russell. I have Duncan behind only Kareem and Shaq on my all-time centers list, though TBH I have no idea where to put Wilt. In terms of physical gifts the top tier guys I think are Kareem, Shaq, Wilt and Russell, arguably Robinson. I don't know how Wilt fits in the GOAT conversation. Scoreboard says 2 rings. (Russell's rings aren't worth the full weight IMO because there were only 8-9 teams throughout most of Russell's run. Them's slightly better odds.)


It really depends on what you need out of a C. Jokic and to a lesser extent Bam are such great offensive initators that their value is beyond points and defense.

It's just really hard to compare all these guys apples to apples. Towns is best at one thing, Jokic at one, Gobert at one, Bam is on a lesser level because he can pass, but not like Jokic, but he can't hit 3s..he is a solid defender. Ayton is good at a lot of things. Probably the best perimeter defender but a great rebounder, screen setter (despite not setting hard screens..he is very effective and he used to stink at this), and great at contesting all sorts of shots without fouling...all over the court...almost the most versatile in the entire NBA at that given his size and agility.

A guy like Anthony Edwards would have a lot harder time playing with Ayton than Towns though...same with a lot of guys...guys that go to the rim a lot...even guys like Harden and Doncic might player better on offense with Towns even though Ayton provides a lot more on the other side...Ayton probably makes up for it..and not that those guys couldn't make it work with Ayton...they'd probably love to have a guy like that.

As for all time Cs list

Kareem is easily #1...so glad we lost that coin toss

2 is hard. I am probably not as high on Shaq as most...even though I have never feared playing against a player more. He couldn't hit free throws and was always out of shape. When he was in shape, he was great. In his early years from mid 90s through about 2002 he was great and he was really good for about 5 years after that.

Hard to really put him above Olajuwon and Robinson though. Olajuwon is probably better than Robinson...it's hard for me to remember those guys well.

I put Duncan on par with those. He seems most like Olajuwon though. Robinson was a bit more ferocious. Didn't Robinson score like 71 to take the scoring title from someone in the final game?

I didn't see Wilt and Russell at all. I generally think Russell might be a bit overrated if people have him like top 3 or 4 overall as a player...but I didn't watch those guys enough. I don't think many at that point in time, when those guys were playing, thought Russell was better than Wilt...they just thought he was on a lot better teams.

But then you have Bill Simmons Celts lover and Lord of the Ringzzzz almost solely determining how good a player is, and Russell vaults up.


I can't imagine putting Robinson ahead of Shaq (who, IIRC, was the player he took that scoring title from). You said it. During his prime, dude was a cheat code. The most unstoppable player the league has ever seen. And while you're right that his free throws killed his TS%, he would foul players out right and left, and every team needed to play big just to have a prayer. People forget. Prime Shaq was unreal.

I have Duncan ahead of Olajuwon and Robinson primarily because of his sustained success. He was the best defensive player in the league in his final season, which is pretty crazy.

With Russell, I'm convinced by what little footage exists that he was one of the greatest athletes ever to play. The anecdotes about the number of blocks he and Wilt would have recorded if they'd kept the stats seem plausible to me when I see what those guys could do physically. I don't think any bigs playing today could match their physical talent. If Russell played today I think he'd play the 5, and I think he'd probably be the best in the league. I think he would have had to adjust to play the 4 in the 80s and 90s. I imagine he'd have resembled Rodman during that era (who would also have to play the 5 in today's game). But yeah, I heavily discount his 11 rings. As I said, 8 teams. Then 9 teams. 11 and 12 teams in the league during his last two championship seasons. It's just not the same.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1090 » by Slim Charless » Thu Jul 8, 2021 5:27 am

saintEscaton wrote:Man, there are so many talented young centers around the league, it's a prime position with an overabundance/plethora of jewels including the likes of Bam. The pickings will only get better with each draft class infusing more bigs .


"The likes of Bam"

How to say you're a casual without saying you're a casual.

Bam is a baller and right behind DA imo. He's a mini Giannis. There's many fans that should want to trade DA for whoever they're C is, but Miami isn't 1 of them
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1091 » by suns12345 » Thu Jul 8, 2021 5:43 am

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Yeah, I said a lot of words and none of them were Ayton is as good as Tim Duncan. I think he's way better than Bam, though, and I'm a Bam fan. The only guy on that list of centers Ayton doesn't best one-on-one is Embiid. Jokic is the MVP and I can't take that away from him, but Ayton defends him better than anyone in the whole damn league. Jokic is one of the league's most efficient scorers but he couldn't get anything to go against Ayton in our series. KAT had one great game against Ayton; in the other matchup this season, he couldn't get anything going. Embiid is the one opposing center I've seen Ayton struggle to defend.

None of this matters but the scoreboard. You plan to take that bag off your head at some point?

P.S. I acknowledge Duncan's greatness, but calling him the best PF-turned-C ever is weird, considering (1) I can't name other PFs-turned-C because it's not a thing, and (2) Duncan always was a center, IMO. The Spurs just played two of them. Call Hakeem Olajuwon a 4 and many would say he's the greatest 4 ever. Same with Russell. I have Duncan behind only Kareem and Shaq on my all-time centers list, though TBH I have no idea where to put Wilt. In terms of physical gifts the top tier guys I think are Kareem, Shaq, Wilt and Russell, arguably Robinson. I don't know how Wilt fits in the GOAT conversation. Scoreboard says 2 rings. (Russell's rings aren't worth the full weight IMO because there were only 8-9 teams throughout most of Russell's run. Them's slightly better odds.)


It really depends on what you need out of a C. Jokic and to a lesser extent Bam are such great offensive initators that their value is beyond points and defense.

It's just really hard to compare all these guys apples to apples. Towns is best at one thing, Jokic at one, Gobert at one, Bam is on a lesser level because he can pass, but not like Jokic, but he can't hit 3s..he is a solid defender. Ayton is good at a lot of things. Probably the best perimeter defender but a great rebounder, screen setter (despite not setting hard screens..he is very effective and he used to stink at this), and great at contesting all sorts of shots without fouling...all over the court...almost the most versatile in the entire NBA at that given his size and agility.

A guy like Anthony Edwards would have a lot harder time playing with Ayton than Towns though...same with a lot of guys...guys that go to the rim a lot...even guys like Harden and Doncic might player better on offense with Towns even though Ayton provides a lot more on the other side...Ayton probably makes up for it..and not that those guys couldn't make it work with Ayton...they'd probably love to have a guy like that.

As for all time Cs list

Kareem is easily #1...so glad we lost that coin toss

2 is hard. I am probably not as high on Shaq as most...even though I have never feared playing against a player more. He couldn't hit free throws and was always out of shape. When he was in shape, he was great. In his early years from mid 90s through about 2002 he was great and he was really good for about 5 years after that.

Hard to really put him above Olajuwon and Robinson though. Olajuwon is probably better than Robinson...it's hard for me to remember those guys well.

I put Duncan on par with those. He seems most like Olajuwon though. Robinson was a bit more ferocious. Didn't Robinson score like 71 to take the scoring title from someone in the final game?

I didn't see Wilt and Russell at all. I generally think Russell might be a bit overrated if people have him like top 3 or 4 overall as a player...but I didn't watch those guys enough. I don't think many at that point in time, when those guys were playing, thought Russell was better than Wilt...they just thought he was on a lot better teams.

But then you have Bill Simmons Celts lover and Lord of the Ringzzzz almost solely determining how good a player is, and Russell vaults up.


I can't imagine putting Robinson ahead of Shaq (who, IIRC, was the player he took that scoring title from). You said it. During his prime, dude was a cheat code. The most unstoppable player the league has ever seen. And while you're right that his free throws killed his TS%, he would foul players out right and left, and every team needed to play big just to have a prayer. People forget. Prime Shaq was unreal.

I have Duncan ahead of Olajuwon and Robinson primarily because of his sustained success. He was the best defensive player in the league in his final season, which is pretty crazy.

With Russell, I'm convinced by what little footage exists that he was one of the greatest athletes ever to play. The anecdotes about the number of blocks he and Wilt would have recorded if they'd kept the stats seem plausible to me when I see what those guys could do physically. I don't think any bigs playing today could match their physical talent. If Russell played today I think he'd play the 5, and I think he'd probably be the best in the league. I think he would have had to adjust to play the 4 in the 80s and 90s. I imagine he'd have resembled Rodman during that era (who would also have to play the 5 in today's game). But yeah, I heavily discount his 11 rings. As I said, 8 teams. Then 9 teams. 11 and 12 teams in the league during his last two championship seasons. It's just not the same.


I saw a video of a Bill Russell Final the other day, the game is so damn different it almost seems pointless to compare people from that era.

The skill level, the rules, the overall collection of talent, money in the game to allow people to play full time.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1092 » by thamadkant » Thu Jul 8, 2021 10:23 am

saintEscaton wrote:DA is basically gunna end up being the Patrick Ewing to Jokic and Embiid who are in this case Hakeem and David Robinson. If he can becomeme a knockdown midrange shooter and stretch the floor enough to make corner threes he will be way better than KAT and a 20 points+/10+ rebounds 2-3 blocks per night guy on elite efficiency with All-NBA defense and perennial DPOY candidacy. That is my bold prediction. I was high on him in college even though I knew he wasn't a generational big but cooled down on him his first two years but this incredible playoff performance has me convinced that he is destined for stardom. He is something special but I would still have taken Doncic who is already Harden level to give us an amazing 1-2 wing punch with him and Booker and just get a veteran rim protector/floor runner center.



Embiid does not play like Admiral, Embiid plays much closer to prime Cousins but with defense and more flopping. Jokic plays like a combination of Divac, Sabonis and Sam Perkins... no way near like Hakeem.

If anyone plays like Robinson and Hakeem, Ayton actually has elements from both players. The athletic rim dunks and baseline jump shots is similar to Robinson... the soft hook and half spin around the 5 feet radius is similar to Hakeem.

If you are comparing rankings, today vs Golden Era... maybe you have a point.

Ayton will struggle to get 2-3 blocks because that would mean he sticks down low and challenge inside shots or he chases blocks from the weakside... both he doesnt do a lot of and for good reasons... Ayton defends the perimeter as much as the paint, like KG did. And Ayton RARELY takes risks and try to block shots from high risk angle jumping with no regard where he lands... he's Duncan-like when guarding shots down low... basically, no lift or jumping but hands up. Occasionally if its just one player he needs to challenge and he knows where he will land safely he will jump higher than usual, but still far less than his max of 40 inch vertical.

Ayton is a ground base defender rather than a rim protector, ala like Duncan, KG, Marc Gasol and Horford.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1093 » by NapoleonII » Thu Jul 8, 2021 2:41 pm

sunsbg wrote:
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DA doesn't give a **** about individual accomplishments. The ultimate team guy.


Exactly the answer you want. It's what Tim Duncan would have said in a dry, somber tone.

There's more games to dominate. And get back here again Big Fella.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1094 » by ATTL » Thu Jul 8, 2021 4:42 pm

Anyone remember the 2000's-early 2010's center position? Brad Miller and magloire were all stars. It was shaq. Briefly yao, and dwight, that was pretty much it for centers.

Now you have jokic, embiid, towns, ayton, bam, gobert, vucevic, and upcoming like wiseman and Mobley. Not counting day to davis or Giannis since they dont seem to like playing center for some reason.

The position has, as kidd would say, turned around 360 degrees in about a decade. If Embiid stays healthy we may be in for a 1990's level of center competition.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1095 » by Saberestar » Thu Jul 8, 2021 6:31 pm

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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1096 » by NapoleonII » Thu Jul 8, 2021 11:18 pm

Ayton kinda represents the modern center. Everyone wants to talk about the death of big man vs the 3 point era, but look at what a 23 year old is doing. Putting up historic numbers in the finals.

Modern centers need some of his traits. Ayton has ALL of these:

-Absurd efficiency is needed to compete against vs the 3 point shot, and not needing the ball to find ways to affect the game
-Height, length, and athleticism combined with being a SHOT-ALTER rather than a blocker.
-Switchability and good defensive instincts
-The speed of a small forward or a power forward in order to recover onto shooters
-Rebound everything AND be able to get back on defense
-Lob-ability
-14 foot automatic jumper
-75% or better free throw shooter
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1097 » by saintEscaton » Thu Jul 8, 2021 11:23 pm

thamadkant wrote:
saintEscaton wrote:DA is basically gunna end up being the Patrick Ewing to Jokic and Embiid who are in this case Hakeem and David Robinson. If he can becomeme a knockdown midrange shooter and stretch the floor enough to make corner threes he will be way better than KAT and a 20 points+/10+ rebounds 2-3 blocks per night guy on elite efficiency with All-NBA defense and perennial DPOY candidacy. That is my bold prediction. I was high on him in college even though I knew he wasn't a generational big but cooled down on him his first two years but this incredible playoff performance has me convinced that he is destined for stardom. He is something special but I would still have taken Doncic who is already Harden level to give us an amazing 1-2 wing punch with him and Booker and just get a veteran rim protector/floor runner center.



Embiid does not play like Admiral, Embiid plays much closer to prime Cousins but with defense and more flopping. Jokic plays like a combination of Divac, Sabonis and Sam Perkins... no way near like Hakeem.

If anyone plays like Robinson and Hakeem, Ayton actually has elements from both players. The athletic rim dunks and baseline jump shots is similar to Robinson... the soft hook and half spin around the 5 feet radius is similar to Hakeem.

If you are comparing rankings, today vs Golden Era... maybe you have a point.

Ayton will struggle to get 2-3 blocks because that would mean he sticks down low and challenge inside shots or he chases blocks from the weakside... both he doesnt do a lot of and for good reasons... Ayton defends the perimeter as much as the paint, like KG did. And Ayton RARELY takes risks and try to block shots from high risk angle jumping with no regard where he lands... he's Duncan-like when guarding shots down low... basically, no lift or jumping but hands up. Occasionally if its just one player he needs to challenge and he knows where he will land safely he will jump higher than usual, but still far less than his max of 40 inch vertical.

Ayton is a ground base defender rather than a rim protector, ala like Duncan, KG, Marc Gasol and Horford.


Some good analysis from you. Yes I was talking about all time rankings in greatness and overall talent not stylistically or skillset
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1098 » by saintEscaton » Thu Jul 8, 2021 11:25 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
saintEscaton wrote:Man, there are so many talented young centers around the league, it's a prime position with an overabundance/plethora of jewels including the likes of Bam. The pickings will only get better with each draft class infusing more bigs .


"The likes of Bam"

How to say you're a casual without saying you're a casual.

Bam is a baller and right behind DA imo. He's a mini Giannis. There's many fans that should want to trade DA for whoever they're C is, but Miami isn't 1 of them

I'm not a casual, nice try. I rank Bam higher than DA, this playoff performance doesn't drastically change things for me, he has to replicate this and carry out this level of success throughout a regular season too
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1099 » by Slim Charless » Thu Jul 8, 2021 11:32 pm

saintEscaton wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
saintEscaton wrote:Man, there are so many talented young centers around the league, it's a prime position with an overabundance/plethora of jewels including the likes of Bam. The pickings will only get better with each draft class infusing more bigs .


"The likes of Bam"

How to say you're a casual without saying you're a casual.

Bam is a baller and right behind DA imo. He's a mini Giannis. There's many fans that should want to trade DA for whoever they're C is, but Miami isn't 1 of them

I'm not a casual, nice try. I rank Bam higher than DA, this playoff performance doesn't drastically change things for me, he has to replicate this and carry out this level of success throughout a regular season too


Completely disagree. They're even defensively and Bam is slightly better offensively while being MUCH better with the ball in his hands (making plays). Now, DA might get there soon but he's not there just yet.

I have Ayton 4th behind Joker, Biid and Bam.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 3, the next step 

Post#1100 » by saintEscaton » Thu Jul 8, 2021 11:43 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
saintEscaton wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
"The likes of Bam"

How to say you're a casual without saying you're a casual.

Bam is a baller and right behind DA imo. He's a mini Giannis. There's many fans that should want to trade DA for whoever they're C is, but Miami isn't 1 of them

I'm not a casual, nice try. I rank Bam higher than DA, this playoff performance doesn't drastically change things for me, he has to replicate this and carry out this level of success throughout a regular season too


Completely disagree. They're even defensively and Bam is slightly better offensively while being MUCH better with the ball in his hands (making plays). Now, DA might get there soon but he's not there just yet.

I have Ayton 4th behind Joker, Biid and Bam.

In the regular season I would still easily take three time DPOY/best rim protector in the league Gobert( even though he's a ragdoll who gets abused by elite offensive centers and exposed in the playoffs) and the most supremely offensively talented big in the league in KAT despite his defensive woes. But Ayton if he develops into a reliable second option as a scorer and expands his range as a shooter can overtake them both if he can also manage to make an All-NBA defensive team
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