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Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step

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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1181 » by garrick » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:23 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
garrick wrote:Someone mentioned on the GB awhile back that DA has a really low block rate but I see that he often isn't credited with blocks because he might get a finger or two on the ball and somehow that isn't counted as a block?

The most noticeable one was in SA where I felt he partially blocked at least three shots but at the end of the game he wasn't credited with blocks on any of them.

He's never been a good shot blocker and it's not because he's not credited with "half blocks"

Blocked shots are overrated anyway, it's showy but not always a good indicator of good defense.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1182 » by TheLoon » Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:02 pm

Only thing that really bugs me is that I think his hands really stink in fighting for contested rebounds or going up for contested shots...ball always seems to end up with the other team
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1183 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:45 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
MPT wrote:To be fair, Ayton has solid fundamentals when it comes to contesting shots. Its that Hibbert verticality :lol:

He could definitely risk it for the biscuit more often...but I mean, what don't we want him to do.

Yeah it's not a big deal he doesn't have the raw block numbers as long as he's playing solid D


Yeah, I don't care about blocks at all. He is 4th in contested shots, right behind Gobert, but ahead of Gobert on a per minute basis, and he also is versatile in that he is up there in contesting 2s AND 3s and the only other guy that does that is Mobley, which is interesting, because he is 1st in contesting shots and high on both. He is a stud. This is also playing with a bunch of bigs, though it might make it easier to contest more as a 7 footer who is the switch on perimeter guy while Allen stays on the inside. But still with that ability to switch, and as good as he is already, it won't be long before he is a top 5 C. Could pass Ayton quickly though he is probably more of a top option and maybe soon to be the #1 option, especially with Sexton out.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1184 » by sunsbg » Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:23 pm

Evan Mobley at his height and weight looks more like a PF to me, so more mobile than DA. Maybe KG for comparison ? DA definitely schooled him in first game vs Cavs, which is to be expected based on their experience.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1185 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:44 pm

sunsbg wrote:Evan Mobley at his height and weight looks more like a PF to me, so more mobile than DA. Maybe KG for comparison ? DA definitely schooled him in first game vs Cavs, which is to be expected based on their experience.

bou
Yeah, he may be more like what Jaren Jackson was supposed to be, but he was a lot more highly rated coming out. And he seems to do everything. But the perimeter defender and 3 pt shooting is there along with the shot blocking and 2.5 apg. He doesn't get as many rebounds as Ayton but he also starts with Allen and Markkanen. Though Ayton is a top 5 rebounder, so hard to be that high anyway.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1186 » by SunsRback4Good » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:40 am

We should've drafted Bagley he's causing havoc since his return last week.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1187 » by bigfoot » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:01 pm

SunsRback4Good wrote:We should've drafted Bagley he's causing havoc since his return last week.


We should give McGee the max since he is outperforming Ayton ... https://stathead.com/tiny/Ow9GP
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1188 » by bhawk » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:14 pm

bigfoot wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:We should've drafted Bagley he's causing havoc since his return last week.


We should give McGee the max since he is outperforming Ayton ... https://stathead.com/tiny/Ow9GP


Ayton has been overall pretty bad. Doesn't pass the eye test if you watch the games. McGee is outperforming because he is PLAYING with more effort, enery, heart. McGee is having fun out there. Ayton is trying not to screw up. Or maybe he is trying to not get hurt?

I'm sure his agent said to him... "you didn't get your deal, whatever you do this year, don't get hurt."

What is crazy is that we have won 16 straight with Ayton playing like ass. Maybe we don't pay him the max? He certainly isn't earing it this season. If we get a good trade for a higher IQ, physical, energy center, let's take it. Sadly, we aren't the only team noticing his poor play. Trade value is tanking.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1189 » by sunsbg » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:37 pm

Ayton will get paid based on his performance in the coming playoffs. There is a chance he's playing to not get hurt in the regular season indeed especially after already missing five games due to injury. 15.5/11.5 in RS is still good for a 3rd/4th option on a winning team and if he performs again as he did in last playoffs he'll get a max from some team, no doubt about it.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1190 » by bigfoot » Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:10 pm

28 centers average more than 25 minutes per game

Here's how DA stacks up ...

The bad ...
25 out of 28 in free throw attempts
21 out of 28 in assists
26 out of 28 in blocks
18 out of 28 in steals
23 out of 28 in free throw percentage
19 out of 28 in 3 point percentage
20 out of 28 in defensive rating
19 out of 28 in opponent points in the fast break
22 out of 28 in defensive win share

The average ...
12 out of 28 in turnovers
13 out of 28 in points
11 out of 28 in personal fouls
11 out 28 in opponent points in the paint
13 out of 29 in player impact estimate (PIE)

The good ...
6 out of 28 in field goal percentage
5 out of 28 in rebounds
4 out of 28 in offensive rating
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1191 » by Ryu » Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:01 pm

Couple of bad games and anti-Ayton brigade in full swing. OK, let`s trade our big time playoffs performer and future of our franchise for Montrezl Harrell.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1192 » by bwgood77 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:24 pm

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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1193 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:06 am

Ryu wrote:Couple of bad games and anti-Ayton brigade in full swing. OK, let`s trade our big time playoffs performer and future of our franchise for Montrezl Harrell.

:roll: :roll: :roll:
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1194 » by Slim Charless » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:14 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ryu wrote:Couple of bad games and anti-Ayton brigade in full swing. OK, let`s trade our big time playoffs performer and future of our franchise for Montrezl Harrell.

:roll: :roll: :roll:


In his defense, some of the DA bashers here probably WOULD say some ish like that, but they just haven't. Nothing will satisfy some posters when it comes to Ayton.....he's not Luka and that's all they see.....
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1195 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:19 am

Slim Charless wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Ryu wrote:Couple of bad games and anti-Ayton brigade in full swing. OK, let`s trade our big time playoffs performer and future of our franchise for Montrezl Harrell.

:roll: :roll: :roll:


In his defense, some of the DA bashers here probably WOULD say some ish like that, but they just haven't. Nothing will satisfy some posters when it comes to Ayton.....he's not Luka and that's all they see.....

For fairness, some staunch DA supporters HAVE put his name in the same sentence as guys like Shaq, the Admiral and Hakeem.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1196 » by Slim Charless » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:32 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote: :roll: :roll: :roll:


In his defense, some of the DA bashers here probably WOULD say some ish like that, but they just haven't. Nothing will satisfy some posters when it comes to Ayton.....he's not Luka and that's all they see.....

For fairness, some staunch DA supporters HAVE put his name in the same sentence as guys like Shaq, the Admiral and Hakeem.


I've never seen the Shaq comparisons. Their games are nothing a like. Hakeem would be awesome, but that's asking a lot. Now Robinson, OK that's fair. But that WAS his comparison coming out of UA. That's what guys like Bilas, and the guys who run Tankathon and NBADRAFT.net told us.....
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1197 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:43 am

Slim Charless wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
In his defense, some of the DA bashers here probably WOULD say some ish like that, but they just haven't. Nothing will satisfy some posters when it comes to Ayton.....he's not Luka and that's all they see.....

For fairness, some staunch DA supporters HAVE put his name in the same sentence as guys like Shaq, the Admiral and Hakeem.


I've never seen the Shaq comparisons. Their games are nothing a like. Hakeem would be awesome, but that's asking a lot. Now Robinson, OK that's fair. But that WAS his comparison coming out of UA. That's what guys like Bilas, and the guys who run Tankathon and NBADRAFT.net told us.....


That was based on his physical stature. No one has compared his game to those guys. Maybe a couple said Luka and him are in a way similar to Hakeem and MJ in that they may have been right for their teams. I don't know, maybe we make the finals with Luka last year but I doubt we have Paul and not sure who we'd have at C.

He's not a focal point given team construction unlike those other guys being the guy teams built around either.
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Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1198 » by Jdiddy701 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:25 am

Slim Charless wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Ryu wrote:Couple of bad games and anti-Ayton brigade in full swing. OK, let`s trade our big time playoffs performer and future of our franchise for Montrezl Harrell.

:roll: :roll: :roll:


In his defense, some of the DA bashers here probably WOULD say some ish like that, but they just haven't. Nothing will satisfy some posters when it comes to Ayton.....he's not Luka and that's all they see.....

People need to get over Luka. What bugs me is that it seems like it’s max or nothing for him and his agent. He’s not a max player, not even close. I would be thrilled with DA on a fair deal. Having him on a max contract is pretty scary and I think will set our team back (without CP3).


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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1199 » by Ryu » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:52 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ryu wrote:Couple of bad games and anti-Ayton brigade in full swing. OK, let`s trade our big time playoffs performer and future of our franchise for Montrezl Harrell.

:roll: :roll: :roll:


Well, it`s bhawk who said: If we get a good trade for a higher IQ, physical, energy center, let's take it.

I too hope DA and his agent get back to reality and sign a fair deal which, in current NBA climate, would be a little less than max. But we need Ayton for sure.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1200 » by bigfoot » Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:51 pm

Giving Ayton the five-year max definitely hamstrings this team when CP3's career winds down. Booker will always need another legitimate 3-way scoring threat on the court with him. That player deserves the max. At this point in his career, Ayton is not that player. I don't imagine Ayton can ever become that 3-way threat. He lacks 3-point shooting, lacks ball-handling, and his ability to assist teammates at a high level is pretty low. That's a big ask to expect he's going to become elite in those three areas. Right now, he's stuck being the third or fourth option on a championship-caliber team until CP3 calls it quits.

Honestly, Ayton's ceiling is closer to Gobert-lite than Robinson, Hakeem, or Shaq.

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