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Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step

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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1201 » by bhawk » Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:28 pm

Ryu wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Ryu wrote:Couple of bad games and anti-Ayton brigade in full swing. OK, let`s trade our big time playoffs performer and future of our franchise for Montrezl Harrell.

:roll: :roll: :roll:


Well, it`s bhawk who said: If we get a good trade for a higher IQ, physical, energy center, let's take it.

I too hope DA and his agent get back to reality and sign a fair deal which, in current NBA climate, would be a little less than max. But we need Ayton for sure.


I'll own up to the over-react. Just sucks he isn't playing to his potential. It is year 4. I think we would all be happy paying Ayton a max or max-like contract, if he was playing like a MAX player. He just isn't right now. It has caused me and potentially others to question if we need an Ayton at all. I don't think Harrell is the right guy (too short), but who else is out there that improves our team?

Good news is that if he keeps playing poorly, we get him at a discount in the off-season.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1202 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:50 pm

He's not a max worthy player. I don't know what we could get for him in trade, but probably not Towns so it will come down to willingness to match RFA offers or give some sort of similar deal that would be close.

If we just lose him, I think our team would feel it quite a bit and would be hard to advance in the playoffs even if we kept the great JaVale McGee.

I think Ayton is a good passer. He always finds open guys quickly. He just isn't terribly high usage and we have two playmakers so it's not his role. Most solid bigs who have developed a 3 didn't do so until a number of years into the league. It's probably not easy to develop from scratch.

And even if he doesn't score, his gravity helps others get open.

But people focus on raw stats too much when his primary value is his switchability on defense (which Gobert cannot do) and allowed FG% improvement each year, near league leading in contesting shots, etc.

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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1203 » by Biff » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:08 pm

Wish the Cavs would swap Mobley for him straight up but they'd just laugh and hang up.

Ayton still has zero idea how to dribble or draw a foul. People want him more involved in the offense but how? He can't post up, he can't dribble, he is entirely reliant upon other guys to get the ball in the hoop efficiently. If Ayton could even remotely come close to maximizing his insane talents, we would without any doubt win a championship but I sadly think he will always be a guy that does 70-80% of what he is capable of. And that is why he doesn't deserve the max despite having the potential of being a max guy. I just don't see him ever fulfilling his potential.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1204 » by sunsbg » Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:13 pm

At what price DA haters would be happy with him ? What players would you be happy to trade him for ? How to involve him more in the offense ? He was pretty good from midrange even in his rookie year, at least was showing potential from this range. He was 5/7 from 3 in the bubble for a stretch of games and has taken less than five threes this season probably. With CP3 he became a lob finisher, which is ok since the team doesn't need much else from him on offense in addition to opening space for others with screens and gravity. With Rubio on a worse team he certainly progresses to a 20-22ppg scorer by now.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1205 » by bwgood77 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:30 pm

sunsbg wrote:At what price DA haters would be happy with him ? What players would you be happy to trade him for ? How to involve him more in the offense ? He was pretty good from midrange even in his rookie year, at least was showing potential from this range. He was 5/7 from 3 in the bubble for a stretch of games and has taken less than five threes this season probably. With CP3 he became a lob finisher, which is ok since the team doesn't need much else from him on offense in addition to opening space for others with screens and gravity. With Rubio on a worse team he certainly progresses to a 20-22ppg scorer by now.


He's great at some things, near the top of the league in some and one of the best at rare things like switchability on defense but people want him to be great at different things, many want him more like a traditional big. There will always be plenty of people unhappy with him because they try to compare him to the best guys in history or the very best guys in the league for whatever reason. Not even those guys at the same point in their career.

But we will always have the Ayton whiners regardless of his play so just something to get used to. He does have disappointing games here and then but so do all our guys. Bridges is probably the most consistent...maybe Paul. Book has been good the last week shooting given his poor efficiency this season...still really bad from 2 for whatever reason (well, not really bad, but back to his first 3 year range before he took his big jump to really increase his efficiency). The good thing is he has gotten way better with his 3 ball, and is slightly better with turnovers and defense.

But everyone has their struggles in areas. Book has been struggling with turnovers, defense, 3 ball for 6 years. You could have always said you wish he could reach his potential...well, I probably did, because he didn't give the 70/80 effort talked about with Ayton but like 20% on defense, etc. He is moving in that direction of getting closer to his potential, getting better in the areas he needed improvement. Hopefully the elite midrange game comes back, but as he's shown, it takes time to improve in your areas of weakness.

Ayton will improve in some of the areas people complain about even though he is already elite in others as Book was. Same goes for Bridges.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1206 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Dec 1, 2021 6:10 am

Blue Wire (@bluewirepods) Tweeted:
The Suns are on FIRE

Phoenix extends their win streak to a franchise record 17-games https://t.co/UDQ6Fg2nX8
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Another great pic of Ayton for a potentially awesome avatar! Where's Kerrsed when we need him??
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1207 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Dec 1, 2021 6:41 am

Gerald Bourguet (@GeraldBourguet) Tweeted:
"Those midrange shots or whatever that I hit, I don't make those without him." - Chris Paul and Deandre Ayton's seals opening things up
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Aytons' value to this team goes beyond his yet unrealized full scoring potential!! :nod:
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1208 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Dec 1, 2021 8:37 am

This is the Ayton I want game in and game out. Playing like it matters
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1209 » by Saberestar » Wed Dec 1, 2021 9:33 am

lilfishi22 wrote:This is the Ayton I want game in and game out. Playing like it matters

That Ayton would be a Top 10 player in the league. 24 points, 11 boards, 2 assists and 2 blocks per game with very good defense....All NBA Team.

He can't play as great as tonight on every single game, but he is great enough to deserve a max contract. Max contracts are not just for 15 players in the league, it's for about the best 50 players in the league and no doubt that Ayton is already one of them.

And he keeps improving, so there's no risk at all. There are only 3-4 Cs better than him today and he is probably the most rounded of all of them.

In this last game he scored five right hooks in the paint. He has mastered that move. Do you imagine Gobert or Capela scoring ten points like that in a game?

Only with hooks, putbacks, lobs, and some mid range shot here or there he will score around 20 points per game on good efficiency for the next eight to ten years.

And he is gonna be always one of the top rebounders in the league.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1210 » by RedIndian » Wed Dec 1, 2021 11:36 am

Saberestar wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:This is the Ayton I want game in and game out. Playing like it matters

That Ayton would be a Top 10 player in the league. 24 points, 11 boards, 2 assists and 2 blocks per game with very good defense....All NBA Team.

He can't play as great as tonight on every single game, but he is great enough to deserve a max contract. Max contracts are not just for 15 players in the league, it's for about the best 50 players in the league and no doubt that Ayton is already one of them.

And he keeps improving, so there's no risk at all. There are only 3-4 Cs better than him today and he is probably the most rounded of all of them.

In this last game he scored five right hooks in the paint. He has mastered that move. Do you imagine Gobert or Capela scoring ten points like that in a game?

Only with hooks, putbacks, lobs, and some mid range shot here or there he will score around 20 points per game on good efficiency for the next eight to ten years.

And he is gonna be always one of the top rebounders in the league.

That short hook is becoming really reliable. Frankly, the only thing that he really needs to work on is his ability to put the ball on the floor from the high post on those short rolls. He's shown flashes of that this year already, though I really wish we actually start forcing him to do that. Once he nails that, look out. He'll go from getting 12 shots a game, to getting 15-16 shots a game, and averaging 18-20 ppg very quickly. That move also completely takes away the ability of the opposition to try and trap Paul.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1211 » by bigfoot » Wed Dec 1, 2021 2:59 pm

Saberestar wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:This is the Ayton I want game in and game out. Playing like it matters

That Ayton would be a Top 10 player in the league. 24 points, 11 boards, 2 assists and 2 blocks per game with very good defense....All NBA Team.

He can't play as great as tonight on every single game, but he is great enough to deserve a max contract. Max contracts are not just for 15 players in the league, it's for about the best 50 players in the league and no doubt that Ayton is already one of them.

And he keeps improving, so there's no risk at all. There are only 3-4 Cs better than him today and he is probably the most rounded of all of them.

In this last game he scored five right hooks in the paint. He has mastered that move. Do you imagine Gobert or Capela scoring ten points like that in a game?

Only with hooks, putbacks, lobs, and some mid range shot here or there he will score around 20 points per game on good efficiency for the next eight to ten years.

And he is gonna be always one of the top rebounders in the league.


It's not even the points. It's about sustained effort all game long and from game-to-game. Very happy that was showcased against the Warriors. Now it needs to be there all the time. He just needs to play with 100% effort like Bridges and he will be an all-star.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1212 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Dec 1, 2021 4:30 pm

Duane Rankin (@DuaneRankin) Tweeted:
"Do our work early. He caught the ball deep a lot. Two feet in the paint. You got a big guy like that, 7 feet, catching the ball with two feet in the paint, it's tough to stop." Draymond Green on Deandre Ayton, who scored 24 points with 8 in the 4th of #Suns win over #Warriors. https://t.co/Fu8Xy4eZsj
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1213 » by sunsbg » Wed Dec 1, 2021 4:45 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:This is the Ayton I want game in and game out. Playing like it matters


It's like he plays better when his teammates need him (e.g. playoffs, games vs 1st team in the league) and are looking for him more often.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1214 » by bhawk » Wed Dec 1, 2021 4:48 pm

bigfoot wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:This is the Ayton I want game in and game out. Playing like it matters

That Ayton would be a Top 10 player in the league. 24 points, 11 boards, 2 assists and 2 blocks per game with very good defense....All NBA Team.

He can't play as great as tonight on every single game, but he is great enough to deserve a max contract. Max contracts are not just for 15 players in the league, it's for about the best 50 players in the league and no doubt that Ayton is already one of them.

And he keeps improving, so there's no risk at all. There are only 3-4 Cs better than him today and he is probably the most rounded of all of them.

In this last game he scored five right hooks in the paint. He has mastered that move. Do you imagine Gobert or Capela scoring ten points like that in a game?

Only with hooks, putbacks, lobs, and some mid range shot here or there he will score around 20 points per game on good efficiency for the next eight to ten years.

And he is gonna be always one of the top rebounders in the league.


It's not even the points. It's about sustained effort all game long and from game-to-game. Very happy that was showcased against the Warriors. Now it needs to be there all the time. He just needs to play with 100% effort like Bridges and he will be an all-star.


Great game from Ayton and a huge improvement from our east coast road trip! To be clear, I am not an Ayton hater. I point out his struggles because I want him to play like the ink on his back. We ALL want him to play like this every night.. and it would earn him a MAX contract if he did. Let's hope he sustains this effort EVERY NIGHT with Booker out.

Great posts from Saberestar, Redindian and Bigfoot.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1215 » by bwgood77 » Wed Dec 1, 2021 7:37 pm

Saberestar wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:This is the Ayton I want game in and game out. Playing like it matters

That Ayton would be a Top 10 player in the league. 24 points, 11 boards, 2 assists and 2 blocks per game with very good defense....All NBA Team.

He can't play as great as tonight on every single game, but he is great enough to deserve a max contract. Max contracts are not just for 15 players in the league, it's for about the best 50 players in the league and no doubt that Ayton is already one of them.

And he keeps improving, so there's no risk at all. There are only 3-4 Cs better than him today and he is probably the most rounded of all of them.

In this last game he scored five right hooks in the paint. He has mastered that move. Do you imagine Gobert or Capela scoring ten points like that in a game?

Only with hooks, putbacks, lobs, and some mid range shot here or there he will score around 20 points per game on good efficiency for the next eight to ten years.

And he is gonna be always one of the top rebounders in the league.


You hear the announcers keep saying when he is establishing position down there and hitting hooks, etc, that he is posting up yet it seems like you only read here how he can't post up. No, Gobert and Capela don't do that. Maybe someone like KP, but he is not as reliable in there as he used to be.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1216 » by bwgood77 » Wed Dec 1, 2021 7:43 pm

bhawk wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
Saberestar wrote:That Ayton would be a Top 10 player in the league. 24 points, 11 boards, 2 assists and 2 blocks per game with very good defense....All NBA Team.

He can't play as great as tonight on every single game, but he is great enough to deserve a max contract. Max contracts are not just for 15 players in the league, it's for about the best 50 players in the league and no doubt that Ayton is already one of them.

And he keeps improving, so there's no risk at all. There are only 3-4 Cs better than him today and he is probably the most rounded of all of them.

In this last game he scored five right hooks in the paint. He has mastered that move. Do you imagine Gobert or Capela scoring ten points like that in a game?

Only with hooks, putbacks, lobs, and some mid range shot here or there he will score around 20 points per game on good efficiency for the next eight to ten years.

And he is gonna be always one of the top rebounders in the league.


It's not even the points. It's about sustained effort all game long and from game-to-game. Very happy that was showcased against the Warriors. Now it needs to be there all the time. He just needs to play with 100% effort like Bridges and he will be an all-star.


Great game from Ayton and a huge improvement from our east coast road trip! To be clear, I am not an Ayton hater. I point out his struggles because I want him to play like the ink on his back. We ALL want him to play like this every night.. and it would earn him a MAX contract if he did. Let's hope he sustains this effort EVERY NIGHT with Booker out.

Great posts from Saberestar, Redindian and Bigfoot.


Yeah, I agree it's great to see that effort. I've mentioned before but it really seems to come more when he is more involved in the offense early. I know it shouldn't matter, and sometimes it doesn't, but I think that happens with some players if they are not as involved in the offense. At least after awhile...just not touching the ball for many minutes straight I think sometimes can impact the effort without players actively thinking it.

Hopefully if they don't involve him he can keep the activeness up all game, but I really just hope they keep him involved on offense given he can typically get them easy buckets anyway...and it usually has that additional impact on keeping him more vested all around.
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1217 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Dec 1, 2021 9:42 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:This is the Ayton I want game in and game out. Playing like it matters

That Ayton would be a Top 10 player in the league. 24 points, 11 boards, 2 assists and 2 blocks per game with very good defense....All NBA Team.

He can't play as great as tonight on every single game, but he is great enough to deserve a max contract. Max contracts are not just for 15 players in the league, it's for about the best 50 players in the league and no doubt that Ayton is already one of them.

And he keeps improving, so there's no risk at all. There are only 3-4 Cs better than him today and he is probably the most rounded of all of them.

In this last game he scored five right hooks in the paint. He has mastered that move. Do you imagine Gobert or Capela scoring ten points like that in a game?

Only with hooks, putbacks, lobs, and some mid range shot here or there he will score around 20 points per game on good efficiency for the next eight to ten years.

And he is gonna be always one of the top rebounders in the league.


You hear the announcers keep saying when he is establishing position down there and hitting hooks, etc, that he is posting up yet it seems like you only read here how he can't post up. No, Gobert and Capela don't do that. Maybe someone like KP, but he is not as reliable in there as he used to be.

Look how deep he was establishing his position in the post. He was fighting for position early and deep, he was calling for the ball and he made quick, decisive reads. Vast majority of the time he's floating between the post and coming up to set a screen. This isn't not the regular Ayton we're used to seeing and until he does it consistently, he's not a post up threat.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1218 » by Saberestar » Wed Dec 8, 2021 7:41 pm

“I’m not really worried about things like that and having all the stuff mixed in my head,” Ayton told The Undefeated recently.

“I’m just putting my head down and working. Me? I’m from the Islands. We work for what we want. It is well-deserving with how I am playing right now. I’m going to bust my tail and get something I deserve.”

“I want All-Star and defensive player of the year,” Ayton said. “I really want that. I want to be on that talk of first-team defense.”


https://theundefeated.com/features/suns-deandre-ayton-im-just-putting-my-head-down-and-working/
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1219 » by bwgood77 » Wed Dec 8, 2021 8:55 pm

Saberestar wrote:
“I’m not really worried about things like that and having all the stuff mixed in my head,” Ayton told The Undefeated recently.

“I’m just putting my head down and working. Me? I’m from the Islands. We work for what we want. It is well-deserving with how I am playing right now. I’m going to bust my tail and get something I deserve.”

“I want All-Star and defensive player of the year,” Ayton said. “I really want that. I want to be on that talk of first-team defense.”


https://theundefeated.com/features/suns-deandre-ayton-im-just-putting-my-head-down-and-working/


A lot of good stuff in there. Great attitude.

During the 2020-21 campaign, Ayton averaged 14.4 points, 10.5 rebounds and 1.2 blocks a game in his third NBA season, and his 66% field goal percentage in the postseason was the highest in NBA history, according to ESPN Stats & Information.


Ayton averaged 14.7 points, 12.0 rebounds, 1.5 blocks and 1.5 steals against the Bucks in the Finals. Ayton held Bucks star Giannis Antetokounmpo to 53% shooting as the primary defender in the Finals, while Antetokounmpo shot 70% against the rest of the Suns. Ayton also shot at least 50% in 17 straight playoff games, trailing only Shaquille O’Neal (2006) for the longest postseason streak in league history.

“We always talk about how slow bigs are able to produce. How many guys his age have been able to do that?” Williams said.


“It didn’t work out (contract) and I got it out of my mind right away,” Ayton, 23, said. “What I can do to make it rub in everyone’s faces is to bust my ass, work hard and win games. At the end of the day, it’s all about winning. If you want to get something and earn something in this league, you have to be a winner. Do something that leads to winning. Me putting my head down and working is just closing out all of that noise. I’m not really worried about all of that.

“You had the time to do the negotiations. You had a deadline and it didn’t work out. Boom, Bada, Bing. You still got to work. You still got to play in between the lines. Still got to make sure this dude don’t dunk on me, score on me or do something to win the game. Still got to do that. And that’s just my competitive spirit.”

Ayton, who is averaging 16.3 points and 11.1 rebounds per game this season, plays like a throwback center, from his game to his sideburns to his competitive spirit. The 2019 NBA All-Rookie first-team selection can score in the post, knock down the midrange jumper and block shots.

worry about myself. And the type of dude I am, I want to be the best young two-way player in the league where I’m controlling the game even if I ain’t scoring the ball.

“When I’m on the court, I’m impacting the game with just me on the floor. Being everywhere. Creating shots. Rolling. Blocking shots. Just being in the paint, loud, communicating. That’s my type of basketball.

“I’m always learning because I know I played my ass off. I did what I can. I did what the team told me to do. Reflecting, there is so much area to grow. If I can do that and this, who is going to stop me? All I’ve been working on is getting more to the [free throw] line and being more of a threat. I already established myself as a big man in this league doing what a big man has to do. Protect the paint. …

Williams noticed the positive effect success and winning had on Ayton, as he arrived to training camp in “great shape.”

“Until you’ve been in the playoffs, you always have doubts on whether you can do it on that stage,” Williams said. “And him playing the way that he did allowed him to understand, ‘Yes, you can and you also can do better.’ When you play that well in the playoffs, you build confidence and it also makes you want to work harder. And that is what he did in the offseason.”

“All of it is from experience from the Finals and playing hard,” Ayton said. “We play superhard. We don’t know how to stop playing hard. Ever since I went to the Finals, I don’t know how to stop competing more than 100%. We have to stay at this high level of camaraderie and I have to make sure we win the game.”
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Re: Deandre Ayton year 4, the next step 

Post#1220 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Dec 8, 2021 11:02 pm

Saberestar wrote:
“I’m not really worried about things like that and having all the stuff mixed in my head,” Ayton told The Undefeated recently.

“I’m just putting my head down and working. Me? I’m from the Islands. We work for what we want. It is well-deserving with how I am playing right now. I’m going to bust my tail and get something I deserve.”

“I want All-Star and defensive player of the year,” Ayton said. “I really want that. I want to be on that talk of first-team defense.”


https://theundefeated.com/features/suns-deandre-ayton-im-just-putting-my-head-down-and-working/

Might be the first time I've heard Ayton talk about his specific goals (all-star/DPOY/1st team All-D). That's big time. Maybe I've missed it in the past but I don't recall him ever having ever talked about any specific goal other than sort of the vague, get better, focus on D etc so for him to come out and put that out there is encouraging.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though

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