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TBH I hope he gets traded. You guys are ridiculous and wanting him to avg 25 ppg. He has improved a lot on the defensive end, and if you know anything about basketball, they are not even using him on offense.

Please trade him, going to love seeing CP3 get old, and Booker throw up inflated ppg like we always have

We don't want him to average 25ppg. (Although 20+ ppg was the expectation now that he'll play with Poing God and he will be a lob target. Lol, that turned out nice.) We want him to play like somebody who has been on a basketball court in his life. Yes, this would make him score more - and make our team much more balanced, which is sorely needed.

CP3 will get old no matter what. I have a bad feeling that he already did a little bit - hence his down shooting numbers, overall underperformance, even compared to his performance last year. This has nothing to do with DA.

Bogyo wrote:We don't want him to average 25ppg. (Although 20+ ppg was the expectation now that he'll play with Poing God and he will be a lob target. Lol, that turned out nice.) We want him to play like somebody who has been on a basketball court in his life. Yes, this would make him score more - and make our team much more balanced, which is sorely needed.

CP3 will get old no matter what. I have a bad feeling that he already did a little bit - hence his down shooting numbers, overall underperformance, even compared to his performance last year. This has nothing to do with DA.

This has a lot to do with AD. He is playing good defense and rebounding. Getting used to being involved on hardly any offense with the way the team is running. He is adjusting.

Also you guys cry even when we are a playoff team. pathetic ! Enjoy winning! Quit being crybabies, it is really annoying

Wilber85 wrote:

Bogyo wrote:We don't want him to average 25ppg. (Although 20+ ppg was the expectation now that he'll play with Poing God and he will be a lob target. Lol, that turned out nice.) We want him to play like somebody who has been on a basketball court in his life. Yes, this would make him score more - and make our team much more balanced, which is sorely needed.

CP3 will get old no matter what. I have a bad feeling that he already did a little bit - hence his down shooting numbers, overall underperformance, even compared to his performance last year. This has nothing to do with DA.

This has a lot to do with AD. He is playing good defense and rebounding. Getting used to being involved on hardly any offense with the way the team is running. He is adjusting.

Also you guys cry even when we are a playoff team. pathetic ! Enjoy winning! Quit being crybabies, it is really annoying

Like having the 2nd most post touches in the NBA? Yeah, I see your point.

Bogyo wrote:

Wilber85 wrote:

Bogyo wrote:We don't want him to average 25ppg. (Although 20+ ppg was the expectation now that he'll play with Poing God and he will be a lob target. Lol, that turned out nice.) We want him to play like somebody who has been on a basketball court in his life. Yes, this would make him score more - and make our team much more balanced, which is sorely needed.

CP3 will get old no matter what. I have a bad feeling that he already did a little bit - hence his down shooting numbers, overall underperformance, even compared to his performance last year. This has nothing to do with DA.

This has a lot to do with AD. He is playing good defense and rebounding. Getting used to being involved on hardly any offense with the way the team is running. He is adjusting.

Also you guys cry even when we are a playoff team. pathetic ! Enjoy winning! Quit being crybabies, it is really annoying

Like having the 2nd most post touches in the NBA? Yeah, I see your point.

Yeah, I don't understand this dude's attacking peoples basketball knowledge here. Ayton might not be having tons of plays run for him but he IS involved on the offense. The problem is his feel for game on that end. It's pretty horrendous. If he wasn't so physically gifted he'd be almost useless on offense. He has all the physical tools to be a consistent 20 and 12 kind of guy but he is never consistent. He'll have a 25 and 12 game and then follow it up with an 8 and 6 dud. It doesn't take a basketball genius to see the problem in this for a 3rd year player, especially since his offensive consistency actually seems to be getting worse, rather than better. There's been no improvement in his post game, no improvement in his handle, no improvement in his screen setting, no improvement in his fumbling of passes. It's hard to find anything he has improved on offense. And while it's great that he has become a good defender, his offensive regression is still extremely concerning.

Wilber85 wrote:

Bogyo wrote:We don't want him to average 25ppg. (Although 20+ ppg was the expectation now that he'll play with Poing God and he will be a lob target. Lol, that turned out nice.) We want him to play like somebody who has been on a basketball court in his life. Yes, this would make him score more - and make our team much more balanced, which is sorely needed.

CP3 will get old no matter what. I have a bad feeling that he already did a little bit - hence his down shooting numbers, overall underperformance, even compared to his performance last year. This has nothing to do with DA.

Also you guys cry even when we are a playoff team. pathetic ! Enjoy winning! Quit being crybabies, it is really annoying

As an independent point, we started with the same record last year and then couldnt even sneak into the playoffs wih an 8-0 bubble. Im as hopeful as anyone but lets not act like playoffs are a foregone conclusion.

I do love how Deandre and Ayton are so easily mutable into other words.

I thought his career trajectory would be a staircase but it's looking more like a stepstool.

Revived wrote:

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You know it’s bad when freaking Gambo has to comment on it lmao. There’s many of us who strongly believe that Gambo has no credibility (he of course made up BS stories about Doncic predraft to make sure Suns take Ayton) so wonder if anyone’s stance changes after seeing Gambo’s position.

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For anyone on twitter, sreekar is a must follow. Guy is one of the funniest on there and tweets heavily about Suns and everything else.

I saw this war last night and almost commented. Then Flex from Jersey quoted David Kevin and bashed him, defending Gambo and David Kevin had already blocked Flex and said he won't respond. But yeah, I saw the war.

I also don't remember any or at least many defending Brandon Knight...at least not for long.

This probably isn't helping Ayton's confidence either...

Entirely unproductive. I never understood these sports fans

lilfishi22 wrote:Entirely unproductive. I never understood these sports fans

They aren't sports fans, they're weak-minded individuals that just need someone to pick on with impunity. These are the same kind of people who hate on celebrities for being rich. They're disgusting.

I was looking at his game logs from last year after all these posts blaming him for not being further enough along by now, because it just doesn't add all up.

He had so many 20-25 pt games with 12-21 rebounds last year, especially if you look at his logs from like Jan 16th through the end of Feb. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2020

I've gone back to watch his points, and highlights from a few.

Talking about him not getting lobs this year when open, or calling for the ball...look at how our offense looked to be running so much better, great lobs thrown to him, him dunking it like 5x here and just getting good looks and passes, and I think when he gets those looks it always sometimes energizes him even more with other things (though that goes for most players except maybe like Bridges and Carter)..

I really have barely seen any good lobs or passes to him this year where he is really in scoring position moving toward the basket. Yeah, we saw that low poor pass to him the other night from Paul, but if he just lobbed it up a little above the basket, Ayton will finish it like he does here.

bwgood77 wrote:I was looking at his game logs from last year after all these posts blaming him for not being further enough along by now, because it just doesn't add all up.

He had so many 20-25 pt games with 12-21 rebounds last year, especially if you look at his logs from like Jan 16th through the end of Feb. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2020

I've gone back to watch his points, and highlights from a few.

Talking about him not getting lobs this year when open, or calling for the ball...look at how our offense looked to be running so much better, great lobs thrown to him, him dunking it like 5x here and just getting good looks and passes, and I think when he gets those looks it always sometimes energizes him even more with other things (though that goes for most players except maybe like Bridges and Carter)..

I really have barely seen any good lobs or passes to him this year where he is really in scoring position moving toward the basket. Yeah, we saw that low poor pass to him the other night from Paul, but if he just lobbed it up a little above the basket, Ayton will finish it like he does here.

Watch on YouTube

Look ... Ayton should be farther along and it is completely his fault. His 25 game suspension set him back last year and that's all on him. Then he comes back to the bubble and is out of shape and regresses. Then he's out of shape at the beginning of this season. He plays passively and looks lost. He gets winded often. This is our third year of Ayton and it's the same old story. Doesn't really matter who the point guard is because his screens and rolls are pathetic. This crap isn't changing anytime soon. Sure he's better than Josh Jackson, Marquese Chriss, Dragan Bender, and Alex Len. But he's nothing special. I've got way more enthusiasm regarding Bridges and Johnson as long-term Suns who have a chance to be special.

bigfoot wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:I was looking at his game logs from last year after all these posts blaming him for not being further enough along by now, because it just doesn't add all up.

He had so many 20-25 pt games with 12-21 rebounds last year, especially if you look at his logs from like Jan 16th through the end of Feb. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2020

I've gone back to watch his points, and highlights from a few.

Talking about him not getting lobs this year when open, or calling for the ball...look at how our offense looked to be running so much better, great lobs thrown to him, him dunking it like 5x here and just getting good looks and passes, and I think when he gets those looks it always sometimes energizes him even more with other things (though that goes for most players except maybe like Bridges and Carter)..

I really have barely seen any good lobs or passes to him this year where he is really in scoring position moving toward the basket. Yeah, we saw that low poor pass to him the other night from Paul, but if he just lobbed it up a little above the basket, Ayton will finish it like he does here.

Watch on YouTube

Look ... Ayton should be farther along and it is completely his fault. His 25 game suspension set him back last year and that's all on him. Then he comes back to the bubble and is out of shape and regresses. Then he's out of shape at the beginning of this season. He plays passively and looks lost. He gets winded often. This is our third year of Ayton and it's the same old story. Doesn't really matter who the point guard is because his screens and rolls are pathetic. This crap isn't changing anytime soon. Sure he's better than Josh Jackson, Marquese Chriss, Dragan Bender, and Alex Len. But he's nothing special. I've got way more enthusiasm regarding Bridges and Johnson as long-term Suns who have a chance to be special.

Why not address the post and watch the video? He was on fire last year like 80-90 games in his career. The entire starting lineup is still adjusting to a new PG and he's just not getting very good looks overall. He hasn't played well in a few of the games, or at the level he was for the last month and a half or two before COVID kicked in, but a 9 month hiatus with 8 games halfway through and a new PG to work with, people are just jumping the gun with these ridiculous knee jerk takes.

Sure he has things to work on like every player (especially young ones) do, but he's further along than any other C his age, and the ones people bring up as being better than what he has show in the early 10 games are guys like Towns and Embiid...who are all teamers..not really any others as I've shown.

People just quickly forget what our C position looked like for a long time, particularly when we were extremely awful, and then there are some that still obviously are crying about not drafting Luka, who many of us wanted, but is in the distant past and it's time to move on.

I'm not stating in my posts anything that isn't true, whether it being him being further along in his second year than just about any other 2nd year C, scoring more, rebounding more, having vastly improved on defense, not getting nearly as many lobs, particularly good ones, etc.

He's never going to be David Robinson, but he's still a guy that has made strides, and despite what some state here, his teammates and coaches say always has open ears, is a sponge for information and works very hard on getting better. He is overthinking things this year with the changes, and it's evident, though he's still doing the natural things overall this season, like rebounding, being at 3rd in the league after the last game, despite it being a poor rebounding game.

bwgood77 wrote:This probably isn't helping Ayton's confidence either...

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Unfortunately this is part of being a celebrity in today’s “cancel culture” society but the people who do things like this usually live miserable lives. It’s from their own insecurity that they have to personally attack a guy about a basketball game. Ayton’s still gonna be richer and has already made more money than all those people will in their lifetimes.

Doubt any of them are true Suns fans either cause what we want for the team to be successful is for Ayton to play well consistently and attacking him on social media doesn’t accomplish that goal.

All fanbases have idiots like this though. Sixers fans used to do this to Bynum and Lakers fans to Steve Nash and some Kings fans do it now to Bagley as well. Oh well but like I said this says more about those people who go attack him on his twitter than it says about Ayton.

bwgood77 wrote:I was looking at his game logs from last year after all these posts blaming him for not being further enough along by now, because it just doesn't add all up.

He had so many 20-25 pt games with 12-21 rebounds last year, especially if you look at his logs from like Jan 16th through the end of Feb. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2020

I've gone back to watch his points, and highlights from a few.

Talking about him not getting lobs this year when open, or calling for the ball...look at how our offense looked to be running so much better, great lobs thrown to him, him dunking it like 5x here and just getting good looks and passes, and I think when he gets those looks it always sometimes energizes him even more with other things (though that goes for most players except maybe like Bridges and Carter)..

I really have barely seen any good lobs or passes to him this year where he is really in scoring position moving toward the basket. Yeah, we saw that low poor pass to him the other night from Paul, but if he just lobbed it up a little above the basket, Ayton will finish it like he does here.

Watch on YouTube

I remember Ayton putting a stretch of good games during this time. It’s the best he’s played in his young career. I wouldn’t really look into what Rubio was doing different than CP3 though. CP3 has tried to look for Ayton multiple times, Ayton’s confidence is clearly not there. Honestly, every player has looked for Ayton, I feel like a lot are worried he will fumble the pass or end up passing back anyways.

It’s all on Ayton to look like that player in that video. In that game, he’s going against one of the worst teams in the league last year and up against smaller bigs. He does those same moves this season - jab step at the free throw line, fadeaway when he’s on the side of the rim, use his size vs smaller players, the dunks is what is needed from him that he’s not doing this season. There’s a handful of games where he looks really good.. unfortunately there’s a lot more games where he looks terrible. Not sure if he will ever be a consistent player and I feel that way because I don’t think he cares to. That’s the problem.


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bwgood77 wrote:

bigfoot wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:I was looking at his game logs from last year after all these posts blaming him for not being further enough along by now, because it just doesn't add all up.

He had so many 20-25 pt games with 12-21 rebounds last year, especially if you look at his logs from like Jan 16th through the end of Feb. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2020

I've gone back to watch his points, and highlights from a few.

Talking about him not getting lobs this year when open, or calling for the ball...look at how our offense looked to be running so much better, great lobs thrown to him, him dunking it like 5x here and just getting good looks and passes, and I think when he gets those looks it always sometimes energizes him even more with other things (though that goes for most players except maybe like Bridges and Carter)..

I really have barely seen any good lobs or passes to him this year where he is really in scoring position moving toward the basket. Yeah, we saw that low poor pass to him the other night from Paul, but if he just lobbed it up a little above the basket, Ayton will finish it like he does here.

Watch on YouTube

Look ... Ayton should be farther along and it is completely his fault. His 25 game suspension set him back last year and that's all on him. Then he comes back to the bubble and is out of shape and regresses. Then he's out of shape at the beginning of this season. He plays passively and looks lost. He gets winded often. This is our third year of Ayton and it's the same old story. Doesn't really matter who the point guard is because his screens and rolls are pathetic. This crap isn't changing anytime soon. Sure he's better than Josh Jackson, Marquese Chriss, Dragan Bender, and Alex Len. But he's nothing special. I've got way more enthusiasm regarding Bridges and Johnson as long-term Suns who have a chance to be special.

Why not address the post and watch the video? He was on fire last year like 80-90 games in his career. The entire starting lineup is still adjusting to a new PG and he's just not getting very good looks overall. He hasn't played well in a few of the games, or at the level he was for the last month and a half or two before COVID kicked in, but a 9 month hiatus with 8 games halfway through and a new PG to work with, people are just jumping the gun with these ridiculous knee jerk takes.

Sure he has things to work on like every player (especially young ones) do, but he's further along than any other C his age, and the ones people bring up as being better than what he has show in the early 10 games are guys like Towns and Embiid...who are all teamers..not really any others as I've shown.

People just quickly forget what our C position looked like for a long time, particularly when we were extremely awful, and then there are some that still obviously are crying about not drafting Luka, who many of us wanted, but is in the distant past and it's time to move on.

I'm not stating in my posts anything that isn't true, whether it being him being further along in his second year than just about any other 2nd year C, scoring more, rebounding more, having vastly improved on defense, not getting nearly as many lobs, particularly good ones, etc.

He's never going to be David Robinson, but he's still a guy that has made strides, and despite what some state here, his teammates and coaches say always has open ears, is a sponge for information and works very hard on getting better. He is overthinking things this year with the changes, and it's evident, though he's still doing the natural things overall this season, like rebounding, being at 3rd in the league after the last game, despite it being a poor rebounding game.

Im still an Ayton fan, and I think he is, and has been productive... my one frustration is how he seems to not behave like any normal basketball player on offense. just seems to make unusual decisions. so frustrating, just think like any half decent player and then let you skills and natural talent make you an all star. its bizarre.

Jdiddy701 wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:I was looking at his game logs from last year after all these posts blaming him for not being further enough along by now, because it just doesn't add all up.

He had so many 20-25 pt games with 12-21 rebounds last year, especially if you look at his logs from like Jan 16th through the end of Feb. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2020

I've gone back to watch his points, and highlights from a few.

Talking about him not getting lobs this year when open, or calling for the ball...look at how our offense looked to be running so much better, great lobs thrown to him, him dunking it like 5x here and just getting good looks and passes, and I think when he gets those looks it always sometimes energizes him even more with other things (though that goes for most players except maybe like Bridges and Carter)..

I really have barely seen any good lobs or passes to him this year where he is really in scoring position moving toward the basket. Yeah, we saw that low poor pass to him the other night from Paul, but if he just lobbed it up a little above the basket, Ayton will finish it like he does here.

Watch on YouTube

I remember Ayton putting a stretch of good games during this time. It’s the best he’s played in his young career. I wouldn’t really look into what Rubio was doing different than CP3 though. CP3 has tried to look for Ayton multiple times, Ayton’s confidence is clearly not there. Honestly, every player has looked for Ayton, I feel like a lot are worried he will fumble the pass or end up passing back anyways.

It’s all on Ayton to look like that player in that video. In that game, he’s going against one of the worst teams in the league last year and up against smaller bigs. He does those same moves this season - jab step at the free throw line, fadeaway when he’s on the side of the rim, use his size vs smaller players, the dunks is what is needed from him that he’s not doing this season. There’s a handful of games where he looks really good.. unfortunately there’s a lot more games where he looks terrible. Not sure if he will ever be a consistent player and I feel that way because I don’t think he cares to. That’s the problem.


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That's one of about 15-20 videos that are similar from games last season where he put up 20-25 points and 12-20 boards.

I agree the confidence isn't there on offense, but I think it's because he overthinks things. This is EXACTLY what I saw on defense at AZ...he would kind of freeze, and I would watch closely trying to figure out what it was, because I knew he had the ability to do things I'd seen him do before. I think he has a lot of new voices in his head telling him what to do and it makes him a little more robotic sometimes or he just doesn't flow as much with the offense.

I know I defend him a lot but I was never really a huge fan coming into the draft...but I've watched him extensively. As weird as it may sound, I don't think it's him being lazy or not into it...I truly think he is overthinking things.

Have you ever heard the phrase "Paralysis by analysis"? I think some things are instinctual and other things are not. I never thought watching him in college that his help defense would become instinctual, but I have seen it a lot now, even though he still has lapses.

But I have for sure seen him be instinctual on all sorts of shots, spin moves, fadeaways, hook shots, rebounding put backs, lob dunks, etc.

I've even seen him dribble and drive from the free throw line and put it in a couple times this year. I think he's just adjusting.

The funny thing is I liked him less coming out of college because I wasn't sure he had certain things in him....I wasn't sure how hard he worked or if things could become instinctual, but I have seen him work hard and things I never expected to, become instinctual.

It's not that I don't see his weaknesses, and they are a little concerning, but not in a way to me to where I am not almost certainly sure he will fix the vast majority of them.

I think it does suck though that his year 2 and 3 had COVID derail both seasons (who knows how bad it will impact this season).

suns12345 wrote:Im still an Ayton fan, and I think he is, and has been productive... my one frustration is how he seems to not behave like any normal basketball player on offense. just seems to make unusual decisions. so frustrating, just think like any half decent player and then let you skills and natural talent make you an all star. its bizarre.

In my last post, between yours and this one, I kind of detailed some of my thinking of why it seems unusual and frustrating because I remember watching certain things in college and his first season mainly in other areas...that I think applies to some of what people are frustrated with him on offense this season.

Though of course you will always have those who will use some poor plays as reinforcement of what they choose to believe and not look at the whole body of work, like those stretches or certain videos from last year.

It seems there are few who change their opinions on a player once they take hold.

Now I am not a huge Ayton guy, however, I do think the criticism has been a little crazy over the top for 10 games into a season with a new PG and not much of a preseason or training camp, all after, for the most part, 9 months in quarantine.

People may have forgotten that I was not high at all his first year because I was seeing a lot of the same stuff I had questions on in college, and not a whole lot of improvement. But last year there was considerable improvement all over the place that I was kind of taken aback. These 10 games, while frustrating at times, don't come close to erasing all of what I've seen and know he can do. There are of course things he still has never done well, like get to the line, that hopefully he improves on, but like I've said, offense has never really been my biggest concern with him, as I've seen him play effectively on offense a lot over the past few years...a lot more than on the defensive side, which took the big uptick last year.