Deandre Ayton news and discussion

[bwgood77]

As critical as I am of Ayton, Vucevic does NOT improve us. Ayton's a big part of our record, so let's not assume we'll improve just by getting someone who's better on offense.

I'd make the trade for KAT - who's transcendent offensively, but not for Vuc who's hitting a career vest 57% TS. That's of no value to us, especially given how much you'd lose on D. Vucevic will be absolutely hunted by smaller guards in the playoffs.

Look, at this point, the best we can do for our roster is add Aldridge in a buyout. I don't think it makes any sense to make a major change to our roster at this stage of the season. If there is a big trade to be made, it needs to done in the offseason once we know how these guys fare in the playoffs.

If we think that there is a small window for contention this year, then it stands to reason that that small window will be open next year as well. I do not se CP3 falling off a cliff suddenly, unless he gets hurt (touch wood).

I'd make a trade for KAT, but not at the expense of 2 or 3 more firsts and enough salary to match, like Ayton, Crowder and Cam or something...KAT makes almost $30 million. Overall does it make us better, with maybe CP3, Book, Bridges, Saric and Towns? Or maybe Nader or Craig starting? I don't think so too much. Our depth would suffer too much as well as our future with draft picks.

[bwgood77]

If we consider Ayton a rol player in his second year (149 games in the league) we can be happy with him. He just need to be more regular but experience gives that.
Of course we have to pay him as a rol player when he renews the contract.

He may be a role player but his gravity helps a lot, ability to switch, efficiency, rebounding and contesting shots. I think he can and will be more than a role player if he's considered that, but that's in large part due to Book and Paul being our top 2 offensive options who would prefer shots than getting him involved throughout the whole game. Bigs typically improve a lot in years 3 through 5 and although it's technically his 3rd year, he still has played under 150 games without a proper offseason or conditioning for a bit due to the pandemic, so I imagine we see a lot of improvement the next 3 years where he probably begins to hit his prime on the tail end.

[RedIndian]

As critical as I am of Ayton, Vucevic does NOT improve us. Ayton's a big part of our record, so let's not assume we'll improve just by getting someone who's better on offense.

I'd make the trade for KAT - who's transcendent offensively, but not for Vuc who's hitting a career vest 57% TS. That's of no value to us, especially given how much you'd lose on D. Vucevic will be absolutely hunted by smaller guards in the playoffs.

Look, at this point, the best we can do for our roster is add Aldridge in a buyout. I don't think it makes any sense to make a major change to our roster at this stage of the season. If there is a big trade to be made, it needs to done in the offseason once we know how these guys fare in the playoffs.

If we think that there is a small window for contention this year, then it stands to reason that that small window will be open next year as well. I do not se CP3 falling off a cliff suddenly, unless he gets hurt (touch wood).

I'd make a trade for KAT, but not at the expense of 2 or 3 more firsts and enough salary to match, like Ayton, Crowder and Cam or something...KAT makes almost $30 million. Overall does it make us better, with maybe CP3, Book, Bridges, Saric and Towns? Or maybe Nader or Craig starting? I don't think so too much. Our depth would suffer too much as well as our future with draft picks.

The trade for KAT, which would presumably include Ayton, Cam, Smith, Carter, and one of Crowder / Saric can frankly only be made in the offseason, because we'd need to make a lot of moves to fill out the roster. There's very little chance KAT gets traded at this point in the season.

[Saberestar]

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[Ryu]

I must say Bogyo, Revived, Frank and rest of the Ayton haters here are nothing like Ayton haters from phx-suns.net. There is some fella over there who wants to trade DA for... Tristan Thompson. Some other guy wants to start Dario Saric at C full time. SMH.

[m1chal]

My perception of DA has changed over the season. Right now I consider him the 2nd most important player on the team because of his defense and rebounding. Without DA we would be a below average defensive team hovering around 8th in the West. It would have to be a very generous offer for me to consider trading him at this point. Although it makes me cringe when I see some of his mistakes and lack of fire but if it is true that bigs take longer to develop, then there is hope in 2-3 years DA will turn into Dominayton

[Wilber85]

The issue is these suns fans expect him as an All-Pro Center averaging 26/12 lol. We do not need that! He has a role, and he fills it.

His defense has improved so much since his rookie year, he can score if he wants to, but we have scorers!

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

My perception of DA has changed over the season. Right now I consider him the 2nd most important player on the team because of his defense and rebounding. Without DA we would be a below average defensive team hovering around 8th in the West. It would have to be a very generous offer for me to consider trading him at this point. Although it makes me cringe when I see some of his mistakes and lack of fire but if it is true that bigs take longer to develop, then there is hope in 2-3 years DA will turn into Dominayton

I think if Ayton played in the 90s he might average close to 30 PPG. Dude's touch within 8 feet of the basket is remarkable.

One thing that bothers me about the way we've handled Ayton is that we don't keep going to him if he makes a mistake or misses a shot. Often it's one miss, he's out of the offense. Players seem to get frustrated when he fails to catch a pass, but no one seems to get frustrated when Booker goes on a turnover-spree.

Really, it's their personalities. Booker is fearless, insistent, fiery. Ayton is almost sheepish.

I get stoked when I see Ayton pumped and energetic. That game against MEM where JV went off against everyone but DA... there were a few plays in a row where JV ran into Ayton and just bounced off him. Dude is strong. Then there was that dunk against the Lakers last night where he got up like he rarely does - head at the rim. The inconsistency is kinda nuts. I just wish there was a way to flip that switch to the on position all the time. I dare say might be favorites to win it all if THAT Deandre were guaranteed to show up every night.

.... Of course, you just know the refs would take him out of at least a couple games - or a whole series, if their handlers felt like it. F this league.

[bwgood77]

As critical as I am of Ayton, Vucevic does NOT improve us. Ayton's a big part of our record, so let's not assume we'll improve just by getting someone who's better on offense.

I'd make the trade for KAT - who's transcendent offensively, but not for Vuc who's hitting a career vest 57% TS. That's of no value to us, especially given how much you'd lose on D. Vucevic will be absolutely hunted by smaller guards in the playoffs.

Look, at this point, the best we can do for our roster is add Aldridge in a buyout. I don't think it makes any sense to make a major change to our roster at this stage of the season. If there is a big trade to be made, it needs to done in the offseason once we know how these guys fare in the playoffs.

If we think that there is a small window for contention this year, then it stands to reason that that small window will be open next year as well. I do not se CP3 falling off a cliff suddenly, unless he gets hurt (touch wood).

I'd make a trade for KAT, but not at the expense of 2 or 3 more firsts and enough salary to match, like Ayton, Crowder and Cam or something...KAT makes almost $30 million. Overall does it make us better, with maybe CP3, Book, Bridges, Saric and Towns? Or maybe Nader or Craig starting? I don't think so too much. Our depth would suffer too much as well as our future with draft picks.

The trade for KAT, which would presumably include Ayton, Cam, Smith, Carter, and one of Crowder / Saric can frankly only be made in the offseason, because we'd need to make a lot of moves to fill out the roster. There's very little chance KAT gets traded at this point in the season.

I don't think KAT will get traded period. I think they have suffered from him and DLo playing only 5 games together since that trade (though I think he is overrated) and KAT missing tons of games the last two years. They gave up way too much to get DLo to pair with KAT and now have Edwards who is coming on..they will not trade KAT, at least until there are maybe 2 years or less remaining on his contract.

[lilfishi22]

The issue is these suns fans expect him as an All-Pro Center averaging 26/12 lol. We do not need that! He has a role, and he fills it.

His defense has improved so much since his rookie year, he can score if he wants to, but we have scorers!

That's the issue. Ayton fans play this strawman where you think his detractors expected 26/12 or bust when we all know he's not that guy and probably likely never be. The expectations of him, especially among his "haters" are probably lower than most Suns fans. The expectation isn't 26/12, it's simply that he plays hard, stays focused and engage and show aggressiveness every game. If he does that game in and game out, we're a top 5 team in offense and defense and a LEGIT title contender. His production is quite frankly secondary to the effort and focus which is completely in Ayton's control. It's not like he's been asked to be a face up nightmare when he doesn't have the ability right now. He's just being asked to play hard and stay focused. It's not all-pro, it's not 26/12 and it's not even #1 draft pick expectations.

[bwgood77]

The issue is these suns fans expect him as an All-Pro Center averaging 26/12 lol. We do not need that! He has a role, and he fills it.

His defense has improved so much since his rookie year, he can score if he wants to, but we have scorers!

That's the issue. Ayton fans play this strawman where you think his detractors expected 26/12 or bust when we all know he's not that guy and probably likely never be. The expectations of him, especially among his "haters" are probably lower than most Suns fans. The expectation isn't 26/12, it's simply that he plays hard, stays focused and engage and show aggressiveness every game. If he does that game in and game out, we're a top 5 team in offense and defense and a LEGIT title contender. His production is quite frankly secondary to the effort and focus which is completely in Ayton's control. It's not like he's been asked to be a face up nightmare when he doesn't have the ability right now. He's just being asked to play hard and stay focused. It's not all-pro, it's not 26/12 and it's not even #1 draft pick expectations.

The playing hard thing is somewhat of a fallacy, despite it being a bandwagon mentality. He overthinks things. He is a big running all around the floor and you are not among league leaders in hustle stats like screen assists, contested shots from long and short range, guarding bigs, wings and guards, being among the league leaders in contested rebounds, offensive boards, etc.

He overthinks and freezes at times and other times gets winded, so there are things he needs to become more instinctual at and improve his conditioning (though he still runs around more than most guys his size). And he needs to improve on things like boxing out, continue to add offensive moves (and for those who have been watching, he has), keep the ball up (though people need to make sure to pass it higher and in good position),etc.

There are lazier people on the defensive end for sure. Now he could be more aggressive on offense, but he usually still passes out on double teams to an open shooter which is a smart play and he has been passing less out of single teams and backing guys down for a hook shot or something like that.

[lilfishi22]

The issue is these suns fans expect him as an All-Pro Center averaging 26/12 lol. We do not need that! He has a role, and he fills it.

His defense has improved so much since his rookie year, he can score if he wants to, but we have scorers!

That's the issue. Ayton fans play this strawman where you think his detractors expected 26/12 or bust when we all know he's not that guy and probably likely never be. The expectations of him, especially among his "haters" are probably lower than most Suns fans. The expectation isn't 26/12, it's simply that he plays hard, stays focused and engage and show aggressiveness every game. If he does that game in and game out, we're a top 5 team in offense and defense and a LEGIT title contender. His production is quite frankly secondary to the effort and focus which is completely in Ayton's control. It's not like he's been asked to be a face up nightmare when he doesn't have the ability right now. He's just being asked to play hard and stay focused. It's not all-pro, it's not 26/12 and it's not even #1 draft pick expectations.

The playing hard thing is somewhat of a fallacy, despite it being a bandwagon mentality. He overthinks things. He is a big running all around the floor and you are not among league leaders in hustle stats like screen assists, contested shots from long and short range, guarding bigs, wings and guards, being among the league leaders in contested rebounds, offensive boards, etc.

He overthinks and freezes at times and other times gets winded, so there are things he needs to become more instinctual at and improve his conditioning (though he still runs around more than most guys his size). And he needs to improve on things like boxing out, continue to add offensive moves (and for those who have been watching, he has), keep the ball up (though people need to make sure to pass it higher and in good position),etc.

There are lazier people on the defensive end for sure. Now he could be more aggressive on offense, but he usually still passes out on double teams to an open shooter which is a smart play and he has been passing less out of single teams and backing guys down for a hook shot or something like that.

There's an entire book of excuses for the guy.

Can't we just call the results like it is and say that for whatever reason (maybe you think you know, maybe you don't), he's been incredibly inconsistent and that's the only consistent thing thus far in his career. That's what it is. Call it effort, call it overthinking, call it youth, call it picked up basketball late, call it we haven't been using him right, call it a lack of focus, call it conditioning, call it endurance, call it short training camp, call it long lay off after pissing hot, call it rookie season, call it disrespectful CP3 (lol), call it Booker won't pass to him, call it whatever; the inconsistent plays speak for itself.

I'm not an advocate for trading him as I want to see what kind of player we get in the playoffs but I think we have to be honest with ourselves and accept that he's been wildly inconsistent in effort, focus and results and that could really impact us in the playoffs. And I have to say this every time but my criticism of Ayton doesn't mean other players are saintly, zero issue players, they've all got issues of their own. For the most part, the other players have all found ways to contribute and play with effort and focus night in and night out and that's the absolute minimum for what we ask of our players. Ayton fails that effort and focus baseline far more often than any other player on this team and that's a real concern if we are to be a great playoff team for years to come.

I don't think I'm being particularly unfair in my criticism of him. I certainly don't have the time, energy or desire to make things up to make Ayton look bad. I want the guy to be good and I want him to carry forward the good games he has but when he isn't good and when he's having his semi-regular off nights, do we just ignore that and pretend that it's not a consistent theme with him?

[bwgood77]

That's the issue. Ayton fans play this strawman where you think his detractors expected 26/12 or bust when we all know he's not that guy and probably likely never be. The expectations of him, especially among his "haters" are probably lower than most Suns fans. The expectation isn't 26/12, it's simply that he plays hard, stays focused and engage and show aggressiveness every game. If he does that game in and game out, we're a top 5 team in offense and defense and a LEGIT title contender. His production is quite frankly secondary to the effort and focus which is completely in Ayton's control. It's not like he's been asked to be a face up nightmare when he doesn't have the ability right now. He's just being asked to play hard and stay focused. It's not all-pro, it's not 26/12 and it's not even #1 draft pick expectations.

The playing hard thing is somewhat of a fallacy, despite it being a bandwagon mentality. He overthinks things. He is a big running all around the floor and you are not among league leaders in hustle stats like screen assists, contested shots from long and short range, guarding bigs, wings and guards, being among the league leaders in contested rebounds, offensive boards, etc.

He overthinks and freezes at times and other times gets winded, so there are things he needs to become more instinctual at and improve his conditioning (though he still runs around more than most guys his size). And he needs to improve on things like boxing out, continue to add offensive moves (and for those who have been watching, he has), keep the ball up (though people need to make sure to pass it higher and in good position),etc.

There are lazier people on the defensive end for sure. Now he could be more aggressive on offense, but he usually still passes out on double teams to an open shooter which is a smart play and he has been passing less out of single teams and backing guys down for a hook shot or something like that.

There's an entire book of excuses for the guy.

Can't we just call the results like it is and say that for whatever reason (maybe you think you know, maybe you don't), he's been incredibly inconsistent and that's the only consistent thing thus far in his career. That's what it is. Call it effort, call it overthinking, call it youth, call it picked up basketball late, call it we haven't been using him right, call it a lack of focus, call it conditioning, call it endurance, call it short training camp, call it long lay off after pissing hot, call it rookie season, call it disrespectful CP3 (lol), call it Booker won't pass to him, call it whatever; the inconsistent plays speak for itself.

I'm not an advocate for trading him as I want to see what kind of player we get in the playoffs but I think we have to be honest with ourselves and accept that he's been wildly inconsistent in effort, focus and results and that could really impact us in the playoffs. And I have to say this every time but my criticism of Ayton doesn't mean other players are saintly, zero issue players, they've all got issues of their own. For the most part, the other players have all found ways to contribute and play with effort and focus night in and night out and that's the absolute minimum for what we ask of our players. Ayton fails that effort and focus baseline far more often than any other player on this team and that's a real concern if we are to be a great playoff team for years to come.

I don't think I'm being particularly unfair in my criticism of him. I certainly don't have the time, energy or desire to make things up to make Ayton look bad. I want the guy to be good and I want him to carry forward the good games he has but when he isn't good and when he's having his semi-regular off nights, do we just ignore that and pretend that it's not a consistent theme with him?

It's more just joining the negativity bandwagon and failing to see how many different ways he contributes even if the box score doesn't look great at the end of the day. Just like people complained about Bridges last year.

You are right he is inconsistent as is everyone and I expect him to have struggles more often being by far the youngest rotation player on the team.

You can call it excuses, but if I don't see it the same way you do it's not an excuse, it's the subjective reality. He has looked great in some games and not as good in either but we could say that about everyone on the team. The whole team plays sloppy in some games...or at least half of them or the majority. The only ones that seems consistently completely giving max consistent effort is Bridges and Cam (despite his shooting woes0...then Paul and Payne usually...even though they have off games.

[Bogyo]

I must say Bogyo, Revived, Frank and rest of the Ayton haters here are nothing like Ayton haters from phx-suns.net. There is some fella over there who wants to trade DA for... Tristan Thompson. Some other guy wants to start Dario Saric at C full time. SMH.

See - THAT is hating. What we are saying here is the (sad) reality. Even though we read the whole "Holy book of basketball excuses - extended version 3.0 by DA's friends and family" about 3-4 times on every page here. Truth is - he just ain't it.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I must say Bogyo, Revived, Frank and rest of the Ayton haters here are nothing like Ayton haters from phx-suns.net. There is some fella over there who wants to trade DA for... Tristan Thompson. Some other guy wants to start Dario Saric at C full time. SMH.

See - THAT is hating. What we are saying here is the (sad) reality. Even though we read the whole "Holy book of basketball excuses - extended version 3.0 by DA's friends and family" about 3-4 times on every page here. Truth is - he just ain't it.

Yeah but then I read proposals to trade DA for Nikola Vucevic and I'm like, You mean that guy DA completely shut down last time we played? If DA "ain't it", then Vuc ain't ****. I don't even know what fans want from DA anymore. If they want to find out what it's like to have Jarrett Allen or Vuc instead of DA, we could just stop switching the 5 on D. You won't see any plays with Harden blowing by Capella because you'll never see Capella guarding the Beard.

Wack.

[Djedefre]

That's the issue. Ayton fans play this strawman where you think his detractors expected 26/12 or bust when we all know he's not that guy and probably likely never be. The expectations of him, especially among his "haters" are probably lower than most Suns fans. The expectation isn't 26/12, it's simply that he plays hard, stays focused and engage and show aggressiveness every game. If he does that game in and game out, we're a top 5 team in offense and defense and a LEGIT title contender. His production is quite frankly secondary to the effort and focus which is completely in Ayton's control. It's not like he's been asked to be a face up nightmare when he doesn't have the ability right now. He's just being asked to play hard and stay focused. It's not all-pro, it's not 26/12 and it's not even #1 draft pick expectations.

The playing hard thing is somewhat of a fallacy, despite it being a bandwagon mentality. He overthinks things. He is a big running all around the floor and you are not among league leaders in hustle stats like screen assists, contested shots from long and short range, guarding bigs, wings and guards, being among the league leaders in contested rebounds, offensive boards, etc.

He overthinks and freezes at times and other times gets winded, so there are things he needs to become more instinctual at and improve his conditioning (though he still runs around more than most guys his size). And he needs to improve on things like boxing out, continue to add offensive moves (and for those who have been watching, he has), keep the ball up (though people need to make sure to pass it higher and in good position),etc.

There are lazier people on the defensive end for sure. Now he could be more aggressive on offense, but he usually still passes out on double teams to an open shooter which is a smart play and he has been passing less out of single teams and backing guys down for a hook shot or something like that.

There's an entire book of excuses for the guy.

Can't we just call the results like it is and say that for whatever reason (maybe you think you know, maybe you don't), he's been incredibly inconsistent and that's the only consistent thing thus far in his career. That's what it is. Call it effort, call it overthinking, call it youth, call it picked up basketball late, call it we haven't been using him right, call it a lack of focus, call it conditioning, call it endurance, call it short training camp, call it long lay off after pissing hot, call it rookie season, call it disrespectful CP3 (lol), call it Booker won't pass to him, call it whatever; the inconsistent plays speak for itself.

I'm not an advocate for trading him as I want to see what kind of player we get in the playoffs but I think we have to be honest with ourselves and accept that he's been wildly inconsistent in effort, focus and results and that could really impact us in the playoffs. And I have to say this every time but my criticism of Ayton doesn't mean other players are saintly, zero issue players, they've all got issues of their own. For the most part, the other players have all found ways to contribute and play with effort and focus night in and night out and that's the absolute minimum for what we ask of our players. Ayton fails that effort and focus baseline far more often than any other player on this team and that's a real concern if we are to be a great playoff team for years to come.

I don't think I'm being particularly unfair in my criticism of him. I certainly don't have the time, energy or desire to make things up to make Ayton look bad. I want the guy to be good and I want him to carry forward the good games he has but when he isn't good and when he's having his semi-regular off nights, do we just ignore that and pretend that it's not a consistent theme with him?

I can not and1 this enough. Kudos.

[Revived]

The issue is these suns fans expect him as an All-Pro Center averaging 26/12 lol. We do not need that! He has a role, and he fills it.

His defense has improved so much since his rookie year, he can score if he wants to, but we have scorers!

That's the issue. Ayton fans play this strawman where you think his detractors expected 26/12 or bust when we all know he's not that guy and probably likely never be. The expectations of him, especially among his "haters" are probably lower than most Suns fans. The expectation isn't 26/12, it's simply that he plays hard, stays focused and engage and show aggressiveness every game. If he does that game in and game out, we're a top 5 team in offense and defense and a LEGIT title contender. His production is quite frankly secondary to the effort and focus which is completely in Ayton's control. It's not like he's been asked to be a face up nightmare when he doesn't have the ability right now. He's just being asked to play hard and stay focused. It's not all-pro, it's not 26/12 and it's not even #1 draft pick expectations.

QFT. And I’ll add that me, you and other posters here probably don’t know behind the scenes stuff much and we’re not at every game watching what’s going on between timeouts and such. However, the Suns own commentators and analysts like Eddie Johnson and Tom Chambers say the same exact things that are said here. And those guys, before covid, were basically around the team every day. I’ll actually say that EJ is probably more critical of Ayton than any poster I’ve seen on realgm. He’s been saying it for 3 years now and he’s grown more critical every year. Tom Chambers and even AZ radio hosts always talk about Ayton’s non existent motor as well.

Even Monty Williams has called out Ayton’s effort in the presser. And if you ever notice other Suns players talk about Ayton, it’s always something like “DA has so much potential, he can be really great one day” or “If DA just stays consistent then he can be so good”. It’s funny to me because rarely do they actually talk about how good he already is. It’s somewhat unfair to him because he’s the best and only rim protector on the team but the Suns players don’t even say that when talking about Ayton. It’s always about his potential. We also see that during their time in Phoenix, Rubio and CP3 have both spend more time yelling at Ayton than they’ve yelled at all other players combined.

I think all of what I said above is way more more insulting than what any fan can say on any message board or social media. And speaking of fans on message boards, just about every opppsing team we play has their fans ripping Ayton. I’ve posted a few of them before but not kidding when I say basically every game will have an opposing fan talk about Ayton being soft or not good or something. After we played Portland last time and Kanter outplayed Ayton, their fans were talking about how Ayton is only basically a slightly more athletic version of Kanter. I don’t agree with that at all only because of the strides DA has made defensively. This was a post by a Minnesota fan after our recent 2 games against them

I never want to see Ayton as the centerpiece for Towns trades again.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2064879&start=80#p89675484

The gulf in value between the two is truly massive.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2064879&start=80#p89675511

And I’ve said it before but I don’t think trading him for the sake of trading him is a good idea either. The C you get back in a trade for Ayton can’t be worse defensively than him because of how much we would suffer in rim protection. That’s why I don’t like the idea of Vucevic even though he’s skilled offensively. I like Capela a lot more and he has team friendly contract at $16-18M/yr for the production he provides.

[Bogyo]

That's the issue. Ayton fans play this strawman where you think his detractors expected 26/12 or bust when we all know he's not that guy and probably likely never be. The expectations of him, especially among his "haters" are probably lower than most Suns fans. The expectation isn't 26/12, it's simply that he plays hard, stays focused and engage and show aggressiveness every game. If he does that game in and game out, we're a top 5 team in offense and defense and a LEGIT title contender. His production is quite frankly secondary to the effort and focus which is completely in Ayton's control. It's not like he's been asked to be a face up nightmare when he doesn't have the ability right now. He's just being asked to play hard and stay focused. It's not all-pro, it's not 26/12 and it's not even #1 draft pick expectations.

The playing hard thing is somewhat of a fallacy, despite it being a bandwagon mentality. He overthinks things. He is a big running all around the floor and you are not among league leaders in hustle stats like screen assists, contested shots from long and short range, guarding bigs, wings and guards, being among the league leaders in contested rebounds, offensive boards, etc.

He overthinks and freezes at times and other times gets winded, so there are things he needs to become more instinctual at and improve his conditioning (though he still runs around more than most guys his size). And he needs to improve on things like boxing out, continue to add offensive moves (and for those who have been watching, he has), keep the ball up (though people need to make sure to pass it higher and in good position),etc.

There are lazier people on the defensive end for sure. Now he could be more aggressive on offense, but he usually still passes out on double teams to an open shooter which is a smart play and he has been passing less out of single teams and backing guys down for a hook shot or something like that.

There's an entire book of excuses for the guy.

Can't we just call the results like it is and say that for whatever reason (maybe you think you know, maybe you don't), he's been incredibly inconsistent and that's the only consistent thing thus far in his career. That's what it is. Call it effort, call it overthinking, call it youth, call it picked up basketball late, call it we haven't been using him right, call it a lack of focus, call it conditioning, call it endurance, call it short training camp, call it long lay off after pissing hot, call it rookie season, call it disrespectful CP3 (lol), call it Booker won't pass to him, call it whatever; the inconsistent plays speak for itself.

I'm not an advocate for trading him as I want to see what kind of player we get in the playoffs but I think we have to be honest with ourselves and accept that he's been wildly inconsistent in effort, focus and results and that could really impact us in the playoffs. And I have to say this every time but my criticism of Ayton doesn't mean other players are saintly, zero issue players, they've all got issues of their own. For the most part, the other players have all found ways to contribute and play with effort and focus night in and night out and that's the absolute minimum for what we ask of our players. Ayton fails that effort and focus baseline far more often than any other player on this team and that's a real concern if we are to be a great playoff team for years to come.

I don't think I'm being particularly unfair in my criticism of him. I certainly don't have the time, energy or desire to make things up to make Ayton look bad. I want the guy to be good and I want him to carry forward the good games he has but when he isn't good and when he's having his semi-regular off nights, do we just ignore that and pretend that it's not a consistent theme with him?

Nothing to add, or to argue with. I'll just probably bump this post from time to time, so the "Ayton-fluffers" (hey, if we are the "haters" you guys can have a name too) can see what the real problem is. But it's not like they will ever see him differently, there will be always another new excuse. Hey, his 2nd uncles bff's girl's dog's cat had a terrible depression lately, no wonder he is not playing well! Anyways, I'll just quote this Fishy post from time to time and be done with it. Thanks Fish, and the and1 as usual.

[sunsbg]

Nothing to add, or to argue with. I'll just probably bump this post from time to time, so the "Ayton-fluffers" (hey, if we are the "haters" you guys can have a name too) can see what the real problem is. But it's not like they will ever see him differently, there will be always another new excuse. Hey, his 2nd uncles bff's girl's dog's cat had a terrible depression lately, no wonder he is not playing well! :D Anyways, I'll just quote this Fishy post from time to time and be done with it. Thanks Fish, and the and1 as usual.

How old are you ? The most annoying part about some of Ayton haters (mentioned it already a few times) is lack of maturity you usually complain about in regards to Ayton and you are probably 2-3 times older than him. "Ayton-fluffers" have already accepted he's not Luka, but still valuable for the team. Time for you to do the same.

[Bogyo]

Nothing to add, or to argue with. I'll just probably bump this post from time to time, so the "Ayton-fluffers" (hey, if we are the "haters" you guys can have a name too) can see what the real problem is. But it's not like they will ever see him differently, there will be always another new excuse. Hey, his 2nd uncles bff's girl's dog's cat had a terrible depression lately, no wonder he is not playing well! :D Anyways, I'll just quote this Fishy post from time to time and be done with it. Thanks Fish, and the and1 as usual.

How old are you ? The most annoying part about some of Ayton haters (mentioned it already a few times) is lack of maturity you usually complain about in regards to Ayton and you are probably 2-3 times older than him. "Ayton-fluffers" have already accepted he's not Luka, but still valuable for the team. Time for you to do the same.

Wow, a real mature message board complaint, asking about the other posters age. Son, let me tell you that is not a very mature reaction.

If our legit complaints get the excuses like: "cp3 not respecting him" and such, we old geezers might turn to a bit of humour you know, kiddo? That's what adults might do.

And if you'll be old enough you might excercise comprehensive reading too, that way you'll really understand others posts, and will not think - for example - that we are complaining becouse he is not Luka, which wasn't the subject in the last year or so.

Now if you promise me that you won't make such childish posts in the future I might get you something nice for your sweet 16 in a couple of years.