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2020-2021 Dynasty League

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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#121 » by bwgood77 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:43 pm

bigfoot wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
MathiasPW wrote:Trading is done as long as you stay under the cap. No need to overcomplicate it with exceptions or 125% salaries matching like in the real NBA.

The point about not having supermax players is a good one I hadn't thought about. A simple possible solution is that you have the RIGHT to give such contracts, but not the obligation, meaning you could have more cap than others already after the 1st season.

I'd just keep the initial contracts standardized in value/term to avoid exploiting the system, like saying AD is not a supermax therefore I'll only pay him 20 over 4 years. You decide the numbers of years you want to keep that player, and pay the matching salary.


You could do 2 at each level like you said, or one supermax, 3 max, 4 medium.

The only problem with these levels are, the better rosters are going to have better players at each price level, so trades would still be tough.

Overall I'm not sure it works.

I have tried to think of things like proposing the 7 plus 1st round draft pick or 8, and I think this helps the bad teams build for the future with high draft picks.

We could go further with that, giving teams with 7 keepers 2 picks before any team with 8 get picks, then those teams get 2 picks on the back end of the draft.

OR we could do the a three tier system where you can keep 6, and your 2 first round picks, 7 and your second rounder, or 8 and lose both or something like that.


Similar to my suggestion of two drafts ... a rookie and a separate free agent. It means the worst teams get 2 picks before the best teams. So 7 keepers, a 2 round rookie draft, and a 3 round free-agent draft. The worst team would get a shot at the best rookie, and in the second draft, the best available free agent (non-keeper). We could hold a lottery for the rookie draft and straight-up worst record for the free-agent draft.


I don't like two drafts. I don't think most people do. Many bad teams might now want to draft any free agents...or maybe only 1. I think I drafted 3 rookies last year and one FA.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#122 » by MrMiyagi » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:54 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
You could do 2 at each level like you said, or one supermax, 3 max, 4 medium.

The only problem with these levels are, the better rosters are going to have better players at each price level, so trades would still be tough.

Overall I'm not sure it works.

I have tried to think of things like proposing the 7 plus 1st round draft pick or 8, and I think this helps the bad teams build for the future with high draft picks.

We could go further with that, giving teams with 7 keepers 2 picks before any team with 8 get picks, then those teams get 2 picks on the back end of the draft.

OR we could do the a three tier system where you can keep 6, and your 2 first round picks, 7 and your second rounder, or 8 and lose both or something like that.


Similar to my suggestion of two drafts ... a rookie and a separate free agent. It means the worst teams get 2 picks before the best teams. So 7 keepers, a 2 round rookie draft, and a 3 round free-agent draft. The worst team would get a shot at the best rookie, and in the second draft, the best available free agent (non-keeper). We could hold a lottery for the rookie draft and straight-up worst record for the free-agent draft.


I don't like two drafts. I don't think most people do. Many bad teams might now want to draft any free agents...or maybe only 1. I think I drafted 3 rookies last year and one FA.

Yeah, I was the opposite. I don't think I drafted a single rookie.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#123 » by MathiasPW » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:04 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
MathiasPW wrote:Trading is done as long as you stay under the cap. No need to overcomplicate it with exceptions or 125% salaries matching like in the real NBA.

The point about not having supermax players is a good one I hadn't thought about. A simple possible solution is that you have the RIGHT to give such contracts, but not the obligation, meaning you could have more cap than others already after the 1st season.

I'd just keep the initial contracts standardized in value/term to avoid exploiting the system, like saying AD is not a supermax therefore I'll only pay him 20 over 4 years. You decide the numbers of years you want to keep that player, and pay the matching salary.


You could do 2 at each level like you said, or one supermax, 3 max, 4 medium.

The only problem with these levels are, the better rosters are going to have better players at each price level, so trades would still be tough.

Overall I'm not sure it works.

I have tried to think of things like proposing the 7 plus 1st round draft pick or 8, and I think this helps the bad teams build for the future with high draft picks.

We could go further with that, giving teams with 7 keepers 2 picks before any team with 8 get picks, then those teams get 2 picks on the back end of the draft.

OR we could do the a three tier system where you can keep 6, and your 2 first round picks, 7 and your second rounder, or 8 and lose both or something like that.


I think the easier solution here is to allow people to play around with their own players (keepers) and cap under pre-defined standardized contracts (i.e. 4/160, 3/90, 2/40, 1/10), and then enter F.A. with whatever is left. (Or maybe limit the amount of longer contracts).

That would give the benefit to managers who value their players correctly, rather than forcing everyone to fit their existing player pool to one specific mold (which would create the value distortion you mentioned).

It would also mean we would have different cap spaces from day 1 and different level of players entering F.A every year, which increases the odds of lower teams making good deals.

About the 2 drafts, if you want to call the F.A a "draft", then yes, we'd be stuck with that, but they are also very far apart (under non-corona circumstances).
My proposal increases the value of rookies by making them relatively very cheap, which also helps underachieving teams to add a lot of "bang for the buck" rather than having to wait years for his numbers to reach an average player level of production.

I guess we'd also have to define a minimum wage for F.As picked during the season.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#124 » by Desertfox » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:04 pm

I feel this would just complicate things and be another source of stagnation. Not being able to trade due to being capped out, not finding a deal with matching salaries. Just seems like more hassle.
A simple solution would be no cap during season (for trades) but then the cap would be used to decide your keepers. So you could trade scraps for big names during one season to go for the title, but come offseason you would end up having to cut them. Also no need to match salaries.

Price and length of contract would be tied together, so the longer you want to keep a player the higher the contract would be (initially). Afterwards it would be a matter of bid amounts and rookie contract lengths.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#125 » by bigfoot » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:03 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:I think it would be good to see who feels like they have no path upwards.


I agree this is probably the first question we want to answer. We certainly have made some positive changes to help lower-tier teams:

Last year - Eliminated the snake draft
This year - Added the 7 keeper/1st rounder or 8 keeper/no 1st rounder option

Those two right there are very useful for allowing bottom tier teams to improve their team. They have been small incremental changes to help with balance and maybe enough.

I think eventually we want to migrate to a cap system because the league would be much more interesting than just monitoring the waiver wire and available player list on a daily/hourly basis.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#126 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:10 pm

I'm a no vote and don't love overcomplicating things. But if it gets voted in that's cool and I wouldn't bitch.

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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#127 » by bwgood77 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:12 pm

I think I am mostly against a cap system.

However, there may be some sort of dynasty auction or player value listing somewhere we could use.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#128 » by MrMiyagi » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:39 pm

bigfoot wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:I think it would be good to see who feels like they have no path upwards.


I agree this is probably the first question we want to answer. We certainly have made some positive changes to help lower-tier teams:

Last year - Eliminated the snake draft
This year - Added the 7 keeper/1st rounder or 8 keeper/no 1st rounder option

Those two right there are very useful for allowing bottom tier teams to improve their team. They have been small incremental changes to help with balance and maybe enough.

I think eventually we want to migrate to a cap system because the league would be much more interesting than just monitoring the waiver wire and available player list on a daily/hourly basis.
Definitely. Like I feel I have a few paths to improve. I've got a few guys I like in this draft that I think will help my squad, I've some solid vets (KD, Hayward, Bledsoe) I could pawn off for younger assets, and I've got a few interesting young guys to package for a vet (Fultz, Kennard, Carter Jr, Brown Jr, my 1st rounder).
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#129 » by MathiasPW » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:07 pm

I like the overall discussion and suggestions. I'll do an official vote next week before we officially start drafting so that, if it gets approved (not very likely atm) we have its implementstion for NEXT (21/22) season.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#130 » by Desertfox » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:25 pm

I see two major issues with the current system.

1) Top (50ish) players will never hit the market, some sort of time limit would be nice, so they eventually become free agents.

2) Rookies, unless they are great immediately, are near impossible to keep. You can't really draft and stash. A way to keep them would be great. Perhaps rookies drafted by a team don't count towards the keeper limit.

Of course a cap/money system would deal with both of those issues, but I would be interested in hearing other options.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#131 » by wheezy » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:00 am

The only kind of cap system I'd potentially say yes to is one where keepers wouldn't count against the cap, like what bigfoot was saying. Not sure how it is a dynasty league if we're going to make a system that means keepers eventually become free agents.... Isn't that why we also have 2 standard roto leagues?
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#132 » by bigfoot » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:02 am

Desertfox wrote:I see two major issues with the current system.

1) Top (50ish) players will never hit the market, some sort of time limit would be nice, so they eventually become free agents.

2) Rookies, unless they are great immediately, are near impossible to keep. You can't really draft and stash. A way to keep them would be great. Perhaps rookies drafted by a team don't count towards the keeper limit.

Of course a cap/money system would deal with both of those issues, but I would be interested in hearing other options.


I really like the stash rookie suggestion. Mo Bamba is a perfect example ... not keeper worthy but could blossom into a quality big by his fourth season. Stuck behind a better big right now.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#133 » by sunskerr » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:48 pm

I think a lot of serious and/or competitive leagues have been moving towards auctions/cap systems, even in regular yearly leagues, because of the extra level of involvement it takes and the skill involved in getting good value per dollar. Also, as someone whos of the opinion that 8 cat (roto and h2h) is sort of, well, not that hard (absurd emphasis on the draft since a players BBM ranking is their literal value and you don't have to worry about fit) I think the additional emphasis on managing player "contracts" will be a great addition on top of the roto format.

There's 100% a good way out there to assign $ value to players and a total cap for teams that will not destroy everyone's currently amassed talent.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#134 » by KD354MVPBOI » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:46 am

Is there gonna be ROTO fantasy this season?

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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#135 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:09 pm

KD354MVPBOI wrote:Is there gonna be ROTO fantasy this season?

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I'm sure there will be. You can start a separate thread about Premier League check in, and maybe someone else can do G league check in. Not sure about relegation this year. Would probably do if there were 2 or 3 clear bottom guys in premier and 2 or 3 clear top guys in G league.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#136 » by Golanator » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:45 pm

I’m hype.

The only one of my keepers to hit FA was Ibaka and he landed in a great spot in LA. Basically expect him to play Harrell’s role + some considering he can play the 4 too. Love it
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#137 » by MathiasPW » Yesterday 4:44 pm

Erm, can some mod or thread creator make a poll so we officially vote on the transition to a capped league?

Potential rules, arguments in favor and arguments against have been posted and discussed, we should just formalize this before we start the draft next week.
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