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2020-2021 Dynasty League

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Should the dynasty league migrate to a cap based system (dynasty managers only please)?

Yes
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No
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Total votes: 15

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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#101 » by MathiasPW » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:10 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:The idea of bidding for FAs sounds fun but how would that work logistically? You'd almost need everyone online at the same time for a few hours and do it like an auction.

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This is easily manageable. Just like in the NBA, F.A. starts in July while the season only starts in October. For every bid made, we´d establish some deadline for others to bid against (could be silent, could be open, could be a number of ways) and at the end of that period that player gets hired.

For example, Qwiggles offers 4 Years/120 to CP3, then we´d hold a week to see if anyone outbids him. If no one does, from that moment on CP3 counts against his cap for that (yearly) amount.

Silent auctions might be a bit harder as we´d need someone managing the bids, but that someone will also be a manager in the league. Maybe there are online tools for that, though.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#102 » by Qwigglez » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:32 pm

bigfoot wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
sunskerr wrote:We can easily implement the cap system without a fresh start. But talented teams will simply have to suck it up and take a hit. Right now it seems like talented teams don’t want to do that lol. Can’t blame them but Id rather the owners just be honest instead of inventing other reasons.

But imo the league needs to become more strategic and introducing a cap will help that. 8 cat is always just a stack fest.

Also it seems like we do well year to year with keeping the same owners and having little turnover, but imo a bidding/cap system might help us keep any struggling owners who are thinking of abandoning their team.


Yeah because why? Why do I need to be punished for drafting smart years ago and keeping the guys I did. I messed up plenty too, like drafting Isaacs as a rookie and then dropping him because he was trash that year. There is plenty of ways to improve your team but implementing a cap just seems like a way to help the bottom tier teams improve significantly while the top teams just give up talent.


1) Why do I need to punished for inheriting a team and not having the same choices you had years ago?

2) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but being stuck in a tiered lottery because you are afraid of managers tanking? I've moved down twice in the draft in the last three years. The first time, if I didn't get bumped, I could have had Trae Young.

3) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but rarely having the first option on waiver wires? The worst team should always have the first option at waivers.

4) Why do I need to be punished with some of the most ridiculous, offending trade offers for Curry and Covington and then get called out for not making enough moves.

Yeah, this league will lose managers because it so skewed to keeping the top teams at the top.


It's not my fault you joined the league late and didn't get the same choices I did. I didn't even make the tiered lottery system, I thought it should go worst gets 1st but people felt some owners may choose to tank late in the season, and it's a fair argument. If you have Curry obviously your team was going to be bad last year.
If you guys want to change how many keepers we get, that's fine. I really only want to keep the three guys I drafted when we started in Giannis, Booker, and Lavine, and then the guy I traded for in Drummond. The rest of my team is kind of garbage. But still, it's the team I got and for someone like Tastic & Mathias who has an incredibly well balanced roster, it's unfair that they have to give that up when they put a lot of work into their team. I think the system we have now is fairly balanced.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#103 » by bigfoot » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:26 pm

Qwigglez wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
Yeah because why? Why do I need to be punished for drafting smart years ago and keeping the guys I did. I messed up plenty too, like drafting Isaacs as a rookie and then dropping him because he was trash that year. There is plenty of ways to improve your team but implementing a cap just seems like a way to help the bottom tier teams improve significantly while the top teams just give up talent.


1) Why do I need to punished for inheriting a team and not having the same choices you had years ago?

2) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but being stuck in a tiered lottery because you are afraid of managers tanking? I've moved down twice in the draft in the last three years. The first time, if I didn't get bumped, I could have had Trae Young.

3) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but rarely having the first option on waiver wires? The worst team should always have the first option at waivers.

4) Why do I need to be punished with some of the most ridiculous, offending trade offers for Curry and Covington and then get called out for not making enough moves.

Yeah, this league will lose managers because it so skewed to keeping the top teams at the top.


It's not my fault you joined the league late and didn't get the same choices I did. I didn't even make the tiered lottery system, I thought it should go worst gets 1st but people felt some owners may choose to tank late in the season, and it's a fair argument. If you have Curry obviously your team was going to be bad last year.
If you guys want to change how many keepers we get, that's fine. I really only want to keep the three guys I drafted when we started in Giannis, Booker, and Lavine, and then the guy I traded for in Drummond. The rest of my team is kind of garbage. But still, it's the team I got and for someone like Tastic & Mathias who has an incredibly well balanced roster, it's unfair that they have to give that up when they put a lot of work into their team. I think the system we have now is fairly balanced.


I guess the real question is how many people think the league is fairly balanced? Maybe that is the question we should ask of the managers. It may very well be now with the 7 keeper + 1st round pick versus 8 keeper + no 1st round pick draft. I'm still skeptical. I don't imagine we will ever see much trade movement of big-name players in their prime. You'll likely have Giannis and Booker for another 10 years.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#104 » by MathiasPW » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:36 pm

I´d rather keep the discussion focused on "what changes would improve the league and how" than on personal accounts of events in the past. We can´t change what was, only what will be.

Removing personal biases, the diagnosis is that the league does not promote enough chances from lower teams to climb to the top, even though recent changes may have fixed that, partially (to what point, we´ll still see). A proposed second solution - a cap system - does take a heavier toll on the teams that are currently stacked on talent but adds another layer of complexity (fun to some, less so to others) to the game.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#105 » by Golanator » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:37 pm

I think the league is fair. I took over a pretty good team, made some bad trades, some good trades, and here we are. But I like my keepers and I feel like the league is pretty even.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#106 » by MrMiyagi » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:39 pm

Golanator wrote:I think the league is fair. I took over a pretty good team, made some some trades, some good trades, and here we are. But I like my keepers and I feel like the league is pretty even.

Yeah, I don't feel like there are any particularly dumpster-fire teams. Injuries have definitely taken their toll (KD and Hayward's injuries have been brutal for me), but I don't feel like any of the bottom tier teams are trapped. But I also might not be looking hard enough at the top-tier teams.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#107 » by bigfoot » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:46 pm

MathiasPW wrote:I´d rather keep the discussion focused on "what changes would improve the league and how" than on personal accounts of events in the past. We can´t change what was, only what will be.

Removing personal biases, the diagnosis is that the league does not promote enough chances from lower teams to climb to the top, even though recent changes may have fixed that, partially (to what point, we´ll still see). A proposed second solution - a cap system - does take a heavier toll on the teams that are currently stacked on talent but adds another layer of complexity (fun to some, less so to others) to the game.


I can understand a cap system is more work for managers and the commish which is worrisome too. I do worry about the 7+1 or 8-0 keeper system in that trades for 1st round picks might get goofed up or we won't see 1st round picks traded anymore. Not sure if any first-rounders were moved last season.

An alternative for next year might be 7-keepers and a two-round rookie draft and a three-round free agent (non-keeper) draft. Would probably be easier to manage than a cap system too. Just spitballing ideas.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#108 » by bwgood77 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:37 pm

bigfoot wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
1) Why do I need to punished for inheriting a team and not having the same choices you had years ago?

2) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but being stuck in a tiered lottery because you are afraid of managers tanking? I've moved down twice in the draft in the last three years. The first time, if I didn't get bumped, I could have had Trae Young.

3) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but rarely having the first option on waiver wires? The worst team should always have the first option at waivers.

4) Why do I need to be punished with some of the most ridiculous, offending trade offers for Curry and Covington and then get called out for not making enough moves.

Yeah, this league will lose managers because it so skewed to keeping the top teams at the top.


It's not my fault you joined the league late and didn't get the same choices I did. I didn't even make the tiered lottery system, I thought it should go worst gets 1st but people felt some owners may choose to tank late in the season, and it's a fair argument. If you have Curry obviously your team was going to be bad last year.
If you guys want to change how many keepers we get, that's fine. I really only want to keep the three guys I drafted when we started in Giannis, Booker, and Lavine, and then the guy I traded for in Drummond. The rest of my team is kind of garbage. But still, it's the team I got and for someone like Tastic & Mathias who has an incredibly well balanced roster, it's unfair that they have to give that up when they put a lot of work into their team. I think the system we have now is fairly balanced.


I guess the real question is how many people think the league is fairly balanced? Maybe that is the question we should ask of the managers. It may very well be now with the 7 keeper + 1st round pick versus 8 keeper + no 1st round pick draft. I'm still skeptical. I don't imagine we will ever see much trade movement of big-name players in their prime. You'll likely have Giannis and Booker for another 10 years.


It's not balanced, but I think I had a good team at the beginning, but I just dealt with a ton of injuries and Westbrook declined greatly. Otto Porter went from one of the best 3 pt shooters in the NBA to out for the entire season. So I made some moves to go younger and get picks...my picks haven't panned out though. First year I had 10th, and then last year I can't remember but it wasn't great...I think I got Culver and Reddish and they both were pretty disappointing. The draft really is a crapshoot. I cannot believe Culver's free throw %...and Cam can't shoot for ****.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#109 » by Desertfox » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:42 pm

Just an idea on how to implement a cap system halfway thru, set it so its tied to the keeper system. Have everyone arrange their keepers in order of preference. #1 is worth X amount #2 is worth a smaller amount and so on. Rookies are worth a different amount. And set the cap limit so that anyone can keep their original top 6 keepers + a rookie going forward.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#110 » by ZER0 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:20 pm

Its not really a Dynasty league if you only keep 4-6 players... at that point its just a deep keeper league. The people complaining about lack of trades is dumb, its just like in the NBA now, you rarely see blockbuster trades - we have seen some standard notable trades thus far. Who could forget the Boogie for Tobias Harris trade? Seemed "fair" at the time right?

I think the system is fine as is. I had a hard time deciding who my 8th keeper was this year and if I wanted to keep someone over drafting someone. Bigger trades will happen as more talent is drafted. Its also too late to implement a cap system, that is something you have to do before you draft.

BTW, I am taking reasonable offers for KP right now if anyone is interested. PF/C position on my team is kinda stacked and I need help at SG/SF.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#111 » by MathiasPW » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:41 am

Desertfox wrote:Just an idea on how to implement a cap system halfway thru, set it so its tied to the keeper system. Have everyone arrange their keepers in order of preference. #1 is worth X amount #2 is worth a smaller amount and so on. Rookies are worth a different amount. And set the cap limit so that anyone can keep their original top 6 keepers + a rookie going forward.
That is LITERALLY the system I proposed

Here, I'll post it again:


1) increase parity by not allowing those who amassed a bunch of talent perpetually sit on it.

2) Increase player movement, so everyone has a shot at massive jumps on performance from one season to another.

3) increase trade activity by adding another variable to your players value (his cost)

4) increase value of rookies by having them have lower cost and longer time under control (relatively speaking).

So this leads me to the following transition plan (starts 2 offseasons from now).

A) We define a cap (example: 150 MM)

B) Each manager chooses 8 keepers. 2 will be supermax players (4 Years/30M per), 2 max players (3 Years, 20M per), 2 medium players (2 Years, 10M per), 2 Fillers (1 Year/5M per). That's 130MM, and you have 20MM left to fill your other 5 positions at an average of 4M per position.

C) We run the draft only for rookies (that will make a certain someone happy). Rookies have a salary scale where 1st year is really cheap (2M) and it grows by 1M over his 4 year contract, so in his last year he is paid like a minimum keeper.

D) We run the FA by auction. You bid on a player by offering salary and length of time. If within 24hs noone outbids you, he's yours. Contracts can't be longer than X years, salary can't be higher than the Y max. We have bird rights for preference (previous owner wins if bids are equal), otherwise untie criteria can be available cap space or final position in last year.

We'll have a super class of FA in 4 years, but by then drafts and trades and shorter new contracts will have mixed things up enough to keep it all entertaining.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#112 » by sunskerr » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:29 am

Yeah I feel like at least all of us advocating for a FA/bidding system are all for a system where everyone gets to keep their core players.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#113 » by Desertfox » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:33 am

I love the idea, it allows for quantity vs quality, and more two for one trades, while allowing people to potentially keep more keepers if they so wish. I had a bunch of young players that I would have loved to keep, since my team is built for the future. It would lead to more variety and strategy and I know for myself, I'd be more willing to trade Paul George if I knew I could keep the players I got back.

Otherwise, there isn't much difference between Dynasty and general Fantasy.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#114 » by MrMiyagi » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:49 am

So how would trading work? Is salary matching necessary?
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#115 » by bwgood77 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:24 am

What is you don't have two guy worth the super max, or the max? Seems like you'd suddenly be at a big disadvantage.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#116 » by MathiasPW » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:04 pm

Trading is done as long as you stay under the cap. No need to overcomplicate it with exceptions or 125% salaries matching like in the real NBA.

The point about not having supermax players is a good one I hadn't thought about. A simple possible solution is that you have the RIGHT to give such contracts, but not the obligation, meaning you could have more cap than others already after the 1st season.

I'd just keep the initial contracts standardized in value/term to avoid exploiting the system, like saying AD is not a supermax therefore I'll only pay him 20 over 4 years. You decide the numbers of years you want to keep that player, and pay the matching salary.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#117 » by MrMiyagi » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:48 pm

I feel this would just complicate things and be another source of stagnation. Not being able to trade due to being capped out, not finding a deal with matching salaries. Just seems like more hassle.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#118 » by bwgood77 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:54 pm

MathiasPW wrote:Trading is done as long as you stay under the cap. No need to overcomplicate it with exceptions or 125% salaries matching like in the real NBA.

The point about not having supermax players is a good one I hadn't thought about. A simple possible solution is that you have the RIGHT to give such contracts, but not the obligation, meaning you could have more cap than others already after the 1st season.

I'd just keep the initial contracts standardized in value/term to avoid exploiting the system, like saying AD is not a supermax therefore I'll only pay him 20 over 4 years. You decide the numbers of years you want to keep that player, and pay the matching salary.


You could do 2 at each level like you said, or one supermax, 3 max, 4 medium.

The only problem with these levels are, the better rosters are going to have better players at each price level, so trades would still be tough.

Overall I'm not sure it works.

I have tried to think of things like proposing the 7 plus 1st round draft pick or 8, and I think this helps the bad teams build for the future with high draft picks.

We could go further with that, giving teams with 7 keepers 2 picks before any team with 8 get picks, then those teams get 2 picks on the back end of the draft.

OR we could do the a three tier system where you can keep 6, and your 2 first round picks, 7 and your second rounder, or 8 and lose both or something like that.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#119 » by MrMiyagi » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:10 pm

I think it would be good to see who feels like they have no path upwards.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#120 » by bigfoot » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:16 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
MathiasPW wrote:Trading is done as long as you stay under the cap. No need to overcomplicate it with exceptions or 125% salaries matching like in the real NBA.

The point about not having supermax players is a good one I hadn't thought about. A simple possible solution is that you have the RIGHT to give such contracts, but not the obligation, meaning you could have more cap than others already after the 1st season.

I'd just keep the initial contracts standardized in value/term to avoid exploiting the system, like saying AD is not a supermax therefore I'll only pay him 20 over 4 years. You decide the numbers of years you want to keep that player, and pay the matching salary.


You could do 2 at each level like you said, or one supermax, 3 max, 4 medium.

The only problem with these levels are, the better rosters are going to have better players at each price level, so trades would still be tough.

Overall I'm not sure it works.

I have tried to think of things like proposing the 7 plus 1st round draft pick or 8, and I think this helps the bad teams build for the future with high draft picks.

We could go further with that, giving teams with 7 keepers 2 picks before any team with 8 get picks, then those teams get 2 picks on the back end of the draft.

OR we could do the a three tier system where you can keep 6, and your 2 first round picks, 7 and your second rounder, or 8 and lose both or something like that.


Similar to my suggestion of two drafts ... a rookie and a separate free agent. It means the worst teams get 2 picks before the best teams. So 7 keepers, a 2 round rookie draft, and a 3 round free-agent draft. The worst team would get a shot at the best rookie, and in the second draft, the best available free agent (non-keeper). We could hold a lottery for the rookie draft and straight-up worst record for the free-agent draft.

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