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2020-2021 Dynasty League

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22, Kerrsed

Should the dynasty league migrate to a cap based system (dynasty managers only please)?

Yes
6
40%
No
9
60%
 
Total votes: 15

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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#81 » by Golanator » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:51 pm

I’m down for cap but want to see the full details on how that would work. Makes it more fun.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#82 » by Desertfox » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:34 pm

I like chaos so put me down as a yes to both. Lets make things exciting!
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#83 » by ZER0 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:01 pm

No to both
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#84 » by MrMiyagi » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:30 pm

I'm not sure what adding either of these does to improve the enjoyment of the league. Mark me as a no, unless someone wants to try and persuade me.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#85 » by TASTIC » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:34 pm

No to both...

I think you can only introduce the cap if it's a fresh league startup
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#86 » by sunskerr » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:30 am

We can easily implement the cap system without a fresh start. But talented teams will simply have to suck it up and take a hit. Right now it seems like talented teams don’t want to do that lol. Can’t blame them but Id rather the owners just be honest instead of inventing other reasons.

But imo the league needs to become more strategic and introducing a cap will help that. 8 cat is always just a stack fest.

Also it seems like we do well year to year with keeping the same owners and having little turnover, but imo a bidding/cap system might help us keep any struggling owners who are thinking of abandoning their team.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#87 » by Qwigglez » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:16 am

sunskerr wrote:We can easily implement the cap system without a fresh start. But talented teams will simply have to suck it up and take a hit. Right now it seems like talented teams don’t want to do that lol. Can’t blame them but Id rather the owners just be honest instead of inventing other reasons.

But imo the league needs to become more strategic and introducing a cap will help that. 8 cat is always just a stack fest.

Also it seems like we do well year to year with keeping the same owners and having little turnover, but imo a bidding/cap system might help us keep any struggling owners who are thinking of abandoning their team.


Yeah because why? Why do I need to be punished for drafting smart years ago and keeping the guys I did. I messed up plenty too, like drafting Isaacs as a rookie and then dropping him because he was trash that year. There is plenty of ways to improve your team but implementing a cap just seems like a way to help the bottom tier teams improve significantly while the top teams just give up talent.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#88 » by sunskerr » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:21 am

It's not about you or how well you're doing. It's about adding an additional layer of complexity to a fairly active and competitive dynasty league.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#89 » by MathiasPW » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:18 pm

Thoughts on the cap league.

Main arguments for "no" are 1) unwillingness to lose good players drafted in the past and 2) disbelief in how to migrate from one model to another.

These are my arguments on both:

1) I know our current teams are results from past decisions, groomed over the years, and therefore we feel attached to them. But the opportunity cost of sitting on your current roster with limited chances at mobility is that, while the good decisions keep paying off "forever", bad decisions also do, which ultimately will make those who made them grow weary and quit. Noone likes to suck forever when there is not a clear path to winning. You can argue that draft and FA are relevant paths to improvement, but drafting potential may take YEARS to pay off, and not everybody is able to moneyball their team like TASTIC did last season. You can rotate your 5th to 13th players all you want, it´s still your main 4 which carry your team. Nevertheless, it´s an absolutely legit argument that the bigger cost falls on those who drafted well in the past.

2) I proposed a system where you still carry your best players for 3 to 4 seasons (which is how many we´ve actually played so far! That´s a lot of time in game-years!), but gradually release your players into the FA pool. In practical terms, it´s as if we would reduce the number of keepers every year until we reached zero, but replace the draft with an auction system.

This is where the idea was originally posted, with more arguments on why to adapt it and how it´d work:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1896417&start=20#p82287633
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#90 » by bigfoot » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:10 pm

Qwigglez wrote:
sunskerr wrote:We can easily implement the cap system without a fresh start. But talented teams will simply have to suck it up and take a hit. Right now it seems like talented teams don’t want to do that lol. Can’t blame them but Id rather the owners just be honest instead of inventing other reasons.

But imo the league needs to become more strategic and introducing a cap will help that. 8 cat is always just a stack fest.

Also it seems like we do well year to year with keeping the same owners and having little turnover, but imo a bidding/cap system might help us keep any struggling owners who are thinking of abandoning their team.


Yeah because why? Why do I need to be punished for drafting smart years ago and keeping the guys I did. I messed up plenty too, like drafting Isaacs as a rookie and then dropping him because he was trash that year. There is plenty of ways to improve your team but implementing a cap just seems like a way to help the bottom tier teams improve significantly while the top teams just give up talent.


1) Why do I need to punished for inheriting a team and not having the same choices you had years ago?

2) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but being stuck in a tiered lottery because you are afraid of managers tanking? I've moved down twice in the draft in the last three years. The first time, if I didn't get bumped, I could have had Trae Young.

3) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but rarely having the first option on waiver wires? The worst team should always have the first option at waivers.

4) Why do I need to be punished with some of the most ridiculous, offending trade offers for Curry and Covington and then get called out for not making enough moves.

Yeah, this league will lose managers because it so skewed to keeping the top teams at the top.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#91 » by MrMiyagi » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:16 pm

Maybe the answer was 6 keepers the whole time?

I really don't care for managing anything beyond how well I am doing in each category, which is why I don't want a cap.

I'm also not sure what the appeal of have separate drafts for rookies and free agents is.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#92 » by bwgood77 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:43 pm

MathiasPW wrote:Thoughts on the cap league.

Main arguments for "no" are 1) unwillingness to lose good players drafted in the past and 2) disbelief in how to migrate from one model to another.

These are my arguments on both:

1) I know our current teams are results from past decisions, groomed over the years, and therefore we feel attached to them. But the opportunity cost of sitting on your current roster with limited chances at mobility is that, while the good decisions keep paying off "forever", bad decisions also do, which ultimately will make those who made them grow weary and quit. Noone likes to suck forever when there is not a clear path to winning. You can argue that draft and FA are relevant paths to improvement, but drafting potential may take YEARS to pay off, and not everybody is able to moneyball their team like TASTIC did last season. You can rotate your 5th to 13th players all you want, it´s still your main 4 which carry your team. Nevertheless, it´s an absolutely legit argument that the bigger cost falls on those who drafted well in the past.

2) I proposed a system where you still carry your best players for 3 to 4 seasons (which is how many we´ve actually played so far! That´s a lot of time in game-years!), but gradually release your players into the FA pool. In practical terms, it´s as if we would reduce the number of keepers every year until we reached zero, but replace the draft with an auction system.

This is where the idea was originally posted, with more arguments on why to adapt it and how it´d work:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1896417&start=20#p82287633


I don't think it's a bad idea, and I could go either way, but I don't know how it would impact teams who have already made trades with long term plans in mind...and developed long term plans.

It seems the top teams would still keep their top 4 players and could drop their older guys.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#93 » by bwgood77 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:45 pm

bigfoot wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
sunskerr wrote:We can easily implement the cap system without a fresh start. But talented teams will simply have to suck it up and take a hit. Right now it seems like talented teams don’t want to do that lol. Can’t blame them but Id rather the owners just be honest instead of inventing other reasons.

But imo the league needs to become more strategic and introducing a cap will help that. 8 cat is always just a stack fest.

Also it seems like we do well year to year with keeping the same owners and having little turnover, but imo a bidding/cap system might help us keep any struggling owners who are thinking of abandoning their team.


Yeah because why? Why do I need to be punished for drafting smart years ago and keeping the guys I did. I messed up plenty too, like drafting Isaacs as a rookie and then dropping him because he was trash that year. There is plenty of ways to improve your team but implementing a cap just seems like a way to help the bottom tier teams improve significantly while the top teams just give up talent.


1) Why do I need to punished for inheriting a team and not having the same choices you had years ago?

2) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but being stuck in a tiered lottery because you are afraid of managers tanking? I've moved down twice in the draft in the last three years. The first time, if I didn't get bumped, I could have had Trae Young.

3) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but rarely having the first option on waiver wires? The worst team should always have the first option at waivers.

4) Why do I need to be punished with some of the most ridiculous, offending trade offers for Curry and Covington and then get called out for not making enough moves.

Yeah, this league will lose managers because it so skewed to keeping the top teams at the top.


So are you saying you want a salary cap?
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#94 » by bigfoot » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:45 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:Maybe the answer was 6 keepers the whole time?

I really don't care for managing anything beyond how well I am doing in each category, which is why I don't want a cap.

I'm also not sure what the appeal of have separate drafts for rookies and free agents is.



I can understand not wanting to manage a cap. I could see how six keepers would solve some issues too, but ...

This could be fairly simple change. Hold a rookie-only draft, two rounds. Don't put free agents (non-keepers) in the draft.

Have a free agency where you bid for available free agents based on your cap space. Nobody would ever lose their keepers because of cap space but they might not have cap space to get decent free agents.

Also, the waiver wire should work based on cap space too. That would stop managers with top teams from picking up injured star players because they have the #1 waiver position and then stashing them until next season.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#95 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:50 pm

The idea of bidding for FAs sounds fun but how would that work logistically? You'd almost need everyone online at the same time for a few hours and do it like an auction.

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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#96 » by bigfoot » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:01 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
Yeah because why? Why do I need to be punished for drafting smart years ago and keeping the guys I did. I messed up plenty too, like drafting Isaacs as a rookie and then dropping him because he was trash that year. There is plenty of ways to improve your team but implementing a cap just seems like a way to help the bottom tier teams improve significantly while the top teams just give up talent.


1) Why do I need to punished for inheriting a team and not having the same choices you had years ago?

2) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but being stuck in a tiered lottery because you are afraid of managers tanking? I've moved down twice in the draft in the last three years. The first time, if I didn't get bumped, I could have had Trae Young.

3) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but rarely having the first option on waiver wires? The worst team should always have the first option at waivers.

4) Why do I need to be punished with some of the most ridiculous, offending trade offers for Curry and Covington and then get called out for not making enough moves.

Yeah, this league will lose managers because it so skewed to keeping the top teams at the top.


So are you saying you want a salary cap?


No I'm saying we need to figure out some type of system that helps the struggling teams improve a small amount so that they are not completely screwed for 5-6 years and the manager just throws up their hands and quits. As we all know, the draft is a crap shoot. I could have gotten Trey Young but end up with Mo Bamba in a very good 2018 draft. This year the class is so weak even the #2 pick may not pan out.

Imagine holding a rookie-only draft ... two rounds. Selection based our current non-snake 4-tier system.

Now imagine a free agency period at the beginning of each season. The worst team gets a set amount of dollars and the next team slightly less, and so on so that the first place team has maybe half the amount as the last-place team. Now you can go spend dollars in bids on free agents (non-keepers) and/or save dollars for waiver wire acquisitions later in the season.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#97 » by Desertfox » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:02 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:The idea of bidding for FAs sounds fun but how would that work logistically? You'd almost need everyone online at the same time for a few hours and do it like an auction.

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Could be some sort of silent bid. You get a week to put in your bid on Free Agents. Biggest bid at the end of the week wins that particular player.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#98 » by wheezy » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:05 pm

bigfoot wrote:1) Why do I need to punished for inheriting a team and not having the same choices you had years ago?

2) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but being stuck in a tiered lottery because you are afraid of managers tanking? I've moved down twice in the draft in the last three years. The first time, if I didn't get bumped, I could have had Trae Young.

3) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but rarely having the first option on waiver wires? The worst team should always have the first option at waivers.

4) Why do I need to be punished with some of the most ridiculous, offending trade offers for Curry and Covington and then get called out for not making enough moves.

Yeah, this league will lose managers because it so skewed to keeping the top teams at the top.

1. everyone here chose to sign up for the league.... and as someone else who signed up late, we specifically knew which teams we were taking over when we got into this.

2. RNG is RNG.

3. This doesn't seem weird to me. The wire is a cycle. If you use it, then you go back. But that shouldn't be the sole thing that is making or breaking your team. I think I was near the bottom of the wire most of last season. Also, Tastic makes a ton of moves without necessarily relying on the waiver wire and just paying attention to guys that may break out.

4. My experience on the leagues here is that since we don't know each other ridiculous trade offers are proposed on the regular. Some people are considerably worse offenders than others.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#99 » by bwgood77 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:09 pm

bigfoot wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
1) Why do I need to punished for inheriting a team and not having the same choices you had years ago?

2) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but being stuck in a tiered lottery because you are afraid of managers tanking? I've moved down twice in the draft in the last three years. The first time, if I didn't get bumped, I could have had Trae Young.

3) Why do I need to be punished for having the worst record but rarely having the first option on waiver wires? The worst team should always have the first option at waivers.

4) Why do I need to be punished with some of the most ridiculous, offending trade offers for Curry and Covington and then get called out for not making enough moves.

Yeah, this league will lose managers because it so skewed to keeping the top teams at the top.


So are you saying you want a salary cap?


No I'm saying we need to figure out some type of system that helps the struggling teams improve a small amount so that they are not completely screwed for 5-6 years and the manager just throws up their hands and quits. As we all know, the draft is a crap shoot. I could have gotten Trey Young but end up with Mo Bamba in a very good 2018 draft. This year the class is so weak even the #2 pick may not pan out.

Imagine holding a rookie-only draft ... two rounds. Selection based our current non-snake 4-tier system.

Now imagine a free agency period at the beginning of each season. The worst team gets a set amount of dollars and the next team slightly less, and so on so that the first place team has maybe half the amount as the last-place team. Now you can go spend dollars in bids on free agents (non-keepers) and/or save dollars for waiver wire acquisitions later in the season.


Well last summer you could have participated in a draft with 2 other new owners with better teams who did one but you elected not to. You had that chance...I know you declined because TASTIC was complaining but others went ahead with it...and you could have too if you wanted to improve your team a bit.
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Re: 2020-2021 Dynasty League 

Post#100 » by wheezy » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:09 pm

bigfoot wrote:Have a free agency where you bid for available free agents based on your cap space. Nobody would ever lose their keepers because of cap space but they might not have cap space to get decent free agents.

I think I could probably be talked into this. Like if the keepers work kind of like franchise tag players.

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