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The 2020 NBA Draft

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Are you happy with the Jalen Smith pick?

Yes, without a doubt
20
30%
Yes, but I would have preferred Haliburton or Vassell or maybe Bey or Lewis
29
43%
No, I would have preferred one of the above guys
12
18%
No, there were at least 10 guys I would have taken over him.
6
9%
 
Total votes: 67

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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#901 » by cberry78 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:10 pm

Djedefre wrote:As i figured... McD's tenure is serving as a universal excuse for Jones and his deficiencies as a GM. Ok, continue covering your eyes, it's fine by me. In 2 yrs this franchise will be in even worse spot than when McD left.

In 2 years LBJ will be retired and he and Wade will buy the Suns from Sarver.

Also, -1, quit your whining.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#902 » by suns12345 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:11 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:
suns12345 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
I'll give you 3: Cam, Smith, Jackson. Hell, probably Jerome.


what trades were on the table for those picks that we should have accepted instead of picking those guys?


Any. Trades are offered for every pick during a draft. Every one. I don't need a specific example to state with certainty that the option was available. Also, as Lowe has stated, there were teams laughing that they would have given up a pick for Jackson. Hell, I'd include Warren here. We gave up a pick to dump a player. It's been reported Indiana thought we were joking and told us we had to do it now because they didn't want us to talk to another team and get a valid offer for TJ, who right now looks like the 2nd best player Booker has ever played with locked into a cheap contract.

Everyone loves Oubre, who is half the player TJ is.


If what you claim is true, its disappointing... I don't know that I believe those stories to be true however. Media takes, as in politics and other areas, have been known to gloss over the absolute truth in favor of a good story or in lieu of having all the facts.

But seems like we only disagree on what the facts are as opposed to what you'd expect from a competent GM in a given situation, so I don't think we are fundamentally too far apart in what we think. :wink:
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#903 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:40 pm

suns12345 wrote:


Kid looks like a stud GoK. defense and shooting!

Whats his chances of being a contributor next season do you think?


Well, He's an elite " Point of attack " on ball defender. Average athlete, but a very tenacious defender with a good wingspan that has a knack for making defensive plays on the ball. He's a very good perimeter scorer, and hits at over 38% on his threes. He's also voted a solid foundation for a strong ISO game. I'd say if he gets mentored by Paul for a season or two, He's definitely got the potential to become a starting caliber guard. Maybe a mix of De'Anthony Melton ( Defense) and Terrence Davis ( Offense).

Overall, If he gets playing time? He'll absolutely become a KEY TWO WAY CONTRIBUTOR for us. And a strong consideration for our rotation once Paul is gone. :wink:


https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepaintedlines.com/potential-sixers-draft-target-ty-shon-alexander/%3famp

Comp: Josh Richardson?
Josh Richardson is a fine contributor and a player most teams would welcome under his current contract. But uncertainties around the salary cap  could turn Richardson into a pricey commodity. Enter Ty-Shon Alexander. 

Alexander is years away from becoming the player Richardson is today. But the attributes are quite similar. In Richardson, the Sixers have a hawkish combo guard who is suitable to play some small forward. And while Alexander is not as big, he is capable of filling J-Rich’s shoes on both sides of the court. In particularly defensively, where he often draws the opposition’s toughest matchup.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#904 » by darealjuice » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:45 pm

It'll be interesting to see how Jalen looks playing on the perimeter on both ends of the floor. He plays very upright on defense and doesn't have the best lateral movement, so I have some concerns with him guarding versatile power forwards and the pick and roll. He seems to have some ability to shoot 3s in motion, but his perimeter skills outside of that have a ways to go. I still see him as more of a center than power forward in the current NBA. We'll see though. I wanted Haliburton or Vassell more, but I understand believing in a big man with a legitimate outside stroke, good shot blocking, high energy/passion, and high character.

One thing worth keeping in mind is that we haven't seen most of these guys play since early March, and you never know what kind of improvements they've made in that time. Pre-draft workouts, interviews, and trying to find guys that love the game enough to have constantly worked hard to improve through the pandemic were probably more important than ever.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#905 » by theSUNalsoRISES » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:59 pm

Yeah man I don't hate the team Jones has assembled, but the way he has got there is questionable. Cam Johnson at 11 is fine in a vacuum, but he was projected late first round or even second round (Celtics enamoured with Herro and had the 14 pick plus others). This years draft was more volatile ,but Haliburton drops and a whole bunch of teams were rumoured to love him (Minnesota, GSW and Dallas) - it seems like a missed opportunity. Its annoying if the GM sees the draft completely different and valves different things to most front offices than why not take advantage of that.

Overall we seem to do dumb ****. The timing of the Booker extension (Might have been under McD)The timing of the Chris Paul trade and the CAP implications. The Josh Jackson trade. The Warren trade and the wrong Brooks saga. I'm not sure you can defend that record and the missed opportunities.

But I am going to care very little about how we got there, if that destination is a decent playoff round. So for now lets go Jalen. lets jones, lets go suns.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#906 » by Frank Lee » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:17 pm

I think I’m going to call him Ty-Raja. This kid will be one of the 15.

Jeez y’all wadded up some panties the past couple hrs. JSmith was the logical pick in this homogeneously talented draft. We have 3 bigs inked and two of them are Shank and Cheik... and even with Saric, no guarantees we get an upgrade in FAgency... Sure, maybe Giles or Nerlans... may be Wood... but this kid was a safe pick, the best big left, and is very likely to get 15-20 minutes, to keep if he can. But I do expect us to make a play at another FA PF. I’m buying high on this one and say we are talking to serge. I wonder if he and CP/Jones/Monty have any ties? You want to make splash Bobby? Start at the top.

Paul / Payne / Ty-Raja
Booker
Bridges / Nader
Johnson
Ayton / Smith

9 and counting
What ? Me Worry ?
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#907 » by bwgood77 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:26 pm

sunsbg wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
sunsbg wrote:Jones should have done something more creative and moved up to grab Hayes. Pistons fans are delighted with the pick. Or just taken one of the other PGs like Haliburton, Lewis. Let the rookie learn from Paul for two seasons. Also now the frontcourt is too young, spending most FA money on veteran PF makes more sense with Ayton and Cam as probable starters. In addition a quick look at next year's mock drafts shows it's loaded with PFs/Cs and lacks quality at the PG position.


This PG class kind of sucked. When LaMelo Ball, a worse version of his brother is the best PG in the draft, or at least the "consensus" best one, it's not a good draft for PGs.

I think this draft may have 1-2 guys who end up as long term starters. The rest will either bust or be energy type guards off the bench...or a 3rd guard like Haliburton.


I like Hayes, some consider him the best prospect in this draft, so wonder what it would have taken to move up and take him. After Cunningham next year's draft looks even less impressive on PGs. They better have a long-term plan as Paul is not getting younger.


This draft was known as a weak draft, so the PGs were all pretty blah. Sure, Hayes was up there, but in a lot of drafts he wouldn't have been. Especially guys like Lewis and below. I'm not a big fan of LaMelo either.

I don't know where we will pick next year, but Jalen Suggs is the #6 recruit in the country, the highest rated prospect ever committed to Gonzaga and then you have 4 ranked between 18-21 (Caleb Love, Jeremy Roach, Sharife Cooper and Daishen Nix). The first two are Duke and NC recruits the 3rd is Auburn and the 4th is not committed yet but has a bunch of offers from some of the top programs, then you have others a little lower like Devin Askew (Kentucky) and Khristian Lander (Indiana). Tehse are all 5 star recruits. http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2020

Jalen Smith was actually a 5 star recruit in 2018 and ranked #10 in his class, above guys like Darius Garland and Coby White. http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2018/order/true

Also next year you have Will Richardson from Oregon who shoots 40% from 3..will be a junior..projected in the top 10 in mocks and Joel Ayayi, who will be a sophomore at Gonzaga..a pretty good 3 pt shooter too.

Then maybe David Johnson from Louisville.

It should have depth, but it's considered a far better draft class than this one overall.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#908 » by suns12345 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:29 pm

theSUNalsoRISES wrote:Yeah man I don't hate the team Jones has assembled, but the way he has got there is questionable. Cam Johnson at 11 is fine in a vacuum, but he was projected late first round or even second round (Celtics enamoured with Herro and had the 14 pick plus others). This years draft was more volatile ,but Haliburton drops and a whole bunch of teams were rumoured to love him (Minnesota, GSW and Dallas) - it seems like a missed opportunity. Its annoying if the GM sees the draft completely different and valves different things to most front offices than why not take advantage of that.

Overall we seem to do dumb ****. The timing of the Booker extension (Might have been under McD)The timing of the Chris Paul trade and the CAP implications. The Josh Jackson trade. The Warren trade and the wrong Brooks saga. I'm not sure you can defend that record and the missed opportunities.

But I am going to care very little about how we got there, if that destination is a decent playoff round. So for now lets go Jalen. lets jones, lets go suns.


I dont agree with the dumb **** assessment entirely.

The Booker extension - you don't F around with your stars. There were rumors thats why Kawhi got pissed with the spurs, and I bet you see lots of teams take the same approach as we did with guys like Bam etc. who are due this year.

The CP3 trade isn't clear cut what was the best approach. I actually preferred what we did because it means we can keep Saric, Carter, and use our exceptions. Playing under the Cap means we're risking not getting anyone in our cap space and missing on Saric etc. as well. I think we made the right call personally, although you could argue either case.

Josh Jackson and Warren trades - yes, I agree with you they were bad, but mostly from the asset management point of view. Getting rid of JJ netted us Carter who has been good and moving on from JJ is objectively a good thing. Warren, giving up the pick was poor, plain and simple - but I didn't like Warren much personally so as a fan of the suns, i preferred the team without him.

Anyway, my point is that on here people talk about subjective situations/decisions where we may not know all the facts as if there is a clear cut right and wrong, and I don't think that is often the case.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#909 » by bwgood77 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:31 pm

theSUNalsoRISES wrote:Yeah man I don't hate the team Jones has assembled, but the way he has got there is questionable. Cam Johnson at 11 is fine in a vacuum, but he was projected late first round or even second round (Celtics enamoured with Herro and had the 14 pick plus others).


Then again, a lot of the guys taken above Cam don't look so good so far, including Hunter, Culver, White, Rui and Reddish. So if we had stayed at 6 and taken a consensus guy like Culver or White, we'd probably not be too happy watching guys taken later like Herro and others doing a lot better.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#910 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:32 pm

Frank Lee wrote:I think I’m going to call him Ty-Raja. This kid will be one of the 15.

Jeez y’all wadded up some panties the past couple hrs. JSmith was the logical pick in this homogeneously talented draft. We have 3 bigs inked and two of them are Shank and Cheik... and even with Saric, no guarantees we get an upgrade in FAgency... Sure, maybe Giles or Nerlans... may be Wood... but this kid was a safe pick, the best big left, and is very likely to get 15-20 minutes, to keep if he can. But I do expect us to make a play at another FA PF. I’m buying high on this one and say we are talking to serge. I wonder if he and CP/Jones/Monty have any ties? You want to make splash Bobby? Start at the top.

Paul / Payne / Ty-Raja
Booker
Bridges / Nader
Johnson
Ayton / Smith

9 and counting


Jamychal Green declined his option too. It looks like there's going to be quite a few decent backup 3/4 options out there that might actually fall into the Bi annual range in a depressed and shallow market?
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#911 » by thamadkant » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:33 pm

Djedefre wrote:As i figured... McD's tenure is serving as a universal excuse for Jones and his deficiencies as a GM. Ok, continue covering your eyes, it's fine by me. In 2 yrs this franchise will be in even worse spot than when McD left.



I used to be like you that I worry about Suns future..

Seriously unless you have financial ties to the Suns team and or your life is impacted by them... Just relax and just let it unfold.

There are people in the Suns management team paid six to seven figures a year to worry about the teams future.

Think about it but don't let it bother you.

It's all entertainment.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#912 » by theSUNalsoRISES » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:47 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
theSUNalsoRISES wrote:Yeah man I don't hate the team Jones has assembled, but the way he has got there is questionable. Cam Johnson at 11 is fine in a vacuum, but he was projected late first round or even second round (Celtics enamoured with Herro and had the 14 pick plus others).


Then again, a lot of the guys taken above Cam don't look so good so far, including Hunter, Culver, White, Rui and Reddish. So if we had stayed at 6 and taken a consensus guy like Culver or White, we'd probably not be too happy watching guys taken later like Herro and others doing a lot better.



I have no problem with valuing Cam Johnson. But there is value in trading back and getting Cam with other assets.TBH I think all the draft boards would be creaming themselves in the Spurs pick him. Again its not the endgame with Jones. It is the process of getting there. I have yet to hear anyone else valued Cam as high as we did in the range of 12-15.Its the same situation with the Tatum pick. Celtics wanted Tatum but saw value in trading down. They end up with the guy they wanted all along but also a future pick. We aren't picking the census guy so in that we have an opportunity that Jones refuses to take advantage of.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#913 » by Djedefre » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:49 pm

@thamadkant
It's too late for that...
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#914 » by bwgood77 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:50 pm

theSUNalsoRISES wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
theSUNalsoRISES wrote:Yeah man I don't hate the team Jones has assembled, but the way he has got there is questionable. Cam Johnson at 11 is fine in a vacuum, but he was projected late first round or even second round (Celtics enamoured with Herro and had the 14 pick plus others).


Then again, a lot of the guys taken above Cam don't look so good so far, including Hunter, Culver, White, Rui and Reddish. So if we had stayed at 6 and taken a consensus guy like Culver or White, we'd probably not be too happy watching guys taken later like Herro and others doing a lot better.



I have no problem with valuing Cam Johnson. But there is value in trading back and getting Cam with other assets.TBH I think all the draft boards would be creaming themselves in the Spurs pick him. Again its not the endgame with Jones. It is the process of getting there. I have yet to hear anyone else valued Cam as high as we did in the range of 12-15.Its the same situation with the Tatum pick. Celtics wanted Tatum but saw value in trading down. They end up with the guy they wanted all along but also a future pick. We aren't picking the census guy so in that we have an opportunity that Jones refuses to take advantage of.


I heard late teens, but it depends...I know Philly and NO liked him...you never know if someone else is going to trade up. Very few GMs (only awful ones) are looking at mocks thinking "OK, this guy isn't supposed to go until 17-20 according to Kevin O'Connor and Tankathon, so lets trade back."
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#915 » by jcsunsfan » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:10 am

bwgood77 wrote:
theSUNalsoRISES wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Then again, a lot of the guys taken above Cam don't look so good so far, including Hunter, Culver, White, Rui and Reddish. So if we had stayed at 6 and taken a consensus guy like Culver or White, we'd probably not be too happy watching guys taken later like Herro and others doing a lot better.



I have no problem with valuing Cam Johnson. But there is value in trading back and getting Cam with other assets.TBH I think all the draft boards would be creaming themselves in the Spurs pick him. Again its not the endgame with Jones. It is the process of getting there. I have yet to hear anyone else valued Cam as high as we did in the range of 12-15.Its the same situation with the Tatum pick. Celtics wanted Tatum but saw value in trading down. They end up with the guy they wanted all along but also a future pick. We aren't picking the census guy so in that we have an opportunity that Jones refuses to take advantage of.


I heard late teens, but it depends...I know Philly and NO liked him...you never know if someone else is going to trade up. Very few GMs (only awful ones) are looking at mocks thinking "OK, this guy isn't supposed to go until 17-20 according to Kevin O'Connor and Tankathon, so lets trade back."

This. Mocks are meaningless in the end. GM's don't use them (except for maybe Ryan McD). If you think you can trade back and get your guy based upon mocks, you are fool. Trust your own board and draft accordingly. Trading back is only for when you have MULTIPLE options you like and you know you can get one of the guys you want.

The Suns wanted this guy. They could not get a team to trade in the range that they were confident they could get him. This happened both last year and this year. Just trust your board and take your guy.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#916 » by bwgood77 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:23 am

jcsunsfan wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
theSUNalsoRISES wrote:

I have no problem with valuing Cam Johnson. But there is value in trading back and getting Cam with other assets.TBH I think all the draft boards would be creaming themselves in the Spurs pick him. Again its not the endgame with Jones. It is the process of getting there. I have yet to hear anyone else valued Cam as high as we did in the range of 12-15.Its the same situation with the Tatum pick. Celtics wanted Tatum but saw value in trading down. They end up with the guy they wanted all along but also a future pick. We aren't picking the census guy so in that we have an opportunity that Jones refuses to take advantage of.


I heard late teens, but it depends...I know Philly and NO liked him...you never know if someone else is going to trade up. Very few GMs (only awful ones) are looking at mocks thinking "OK, this guy isn't supposed to go until 17-20 according to Kevin O'Connor and Tankathon, so lets trade back."

This. Mocks are meaningless in the end. GM's don't use them (except for maybe Ryan McD). If you think you can trade back and get your guy based upon mocks, you are fool. Trust your own board and draft accordingly. Trading back is only for when you have MULTIPLE options you like and you know you can get one of the guys you want.

The Suns wanted this guy. They could not get a team to trade in the range that they were confident they could get him. This happened both last year and this year. Just trust your board and take your guy.


I remember watching on ESPN one time someone asking Mel Kiper (NFL mock draft guy) if he ever went back and graded drafts that happened a few years ago after he's seen how players turned out and he responded in his usual fast talking tone, apparently not really understanding the question "No, I grade them right after the draft."

I remember thinking "That's kind of pointless. Who knows which of these guys pan out, which ones are really good, etc."
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#917 » by sunskerr » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:28 am

I also agree with the sentiment that whilst I really like how Jones has improved the roster, it feels like he hasn't squeezed the orange on a lot these moves. But this front office is extremely tight-lipped so I think it's impossible to say for sure.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#918 » by bigfoot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:49 am

sunskerr wrote:I also agree with the sentiment that whilst I really like how Jones has improved the roster, it feels like he hasn't squeezed the orange on a lot these moves. But this front office is extremely tight-lipped so I think it's impossible to say for sure.


Honestly, there really wasn't much of an orange to squeeze. Who wants crappy assets from a losing team? Warren, the second-leading scorer without a history of a three point shot on a dumpster fire team who bashes his head on the floor at least five times per game? Jackson, a police-evading, practice puking, event dodging, headcase with the worst RPM in the league? Nothing in return for Tyson Chandler or Tyler Johnson when everyone wrongly thinks expiring contracts are worth draft picks. Teams with losing records rarely have much to squeeze. But look how much Presti can get when you have a winning team.
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#919 » by Young gun 6 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:08 am

See the news on Haliburton potentially telling teams not to pick him as he wanted Sacramento ?
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Re: The 2020 NBA Draft - New Poll 

Post#920 » by Kerrsed » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:55 am

Lots of hindsight issues being talked about. No one can predict the future, but everyone seems like geniuses after the fact.

Its funny to look at a bunch of old mocks for past drafts.

Why didnt we draft a Giannis or Gobert in 2013 instead of Len @ #5?? Well, Giannis was mocked to go in the 18-22 range most places, Bucks reached a bit at #15, can you imagine what the board would have been like if we took the guy at #5???

We wasted our 2016 picks on Bender and Chris when we could have had Sabonis or Siakam!! Yet Sabonis was mocked in the #14-#20 range and Indiana reached for him at #11. Out of all 5 of the 2016 mocks i just looked at, only 2 had Siakam as a 1st round pick, #25 & #29, the other 3 had him going in the 40's of the 2nd round. Raptors got him at #27 which would have been a major reach according to 3 of the mocks. If we nabbed either of them at #4 or #8 this board would have erupted and tried to burn down Talking Stick Resort Arena!!!

Cant believe we took Josh Jackson at #4! We could have easily taken Mitchell or Adebayo!! Now Mitchell was drafted in his mocked range (#11-#14), but that still would have seemed like a HUGE reach for us at #4. Adebayo was drafted one spot behind Mitchell at #14, but most mocks had him in the #25-#30 range...if they had him as a 1st round pick. Just like Siakam, more than a few major mocks had him as a 2nd round pick. And once again Suns fan would have rioted if we took him over Josh Jackson. Hell Fans would have done that anyway if we took Mitchell after being mocked at #11 (The highest he was mocked).

Cam Johnson was a reach for us in 2019 at #11 (He was projected to go in the #18-#25 range). People lost their sh*t, me included. Herro was mocked anywhere between #16-#24. Miami reach a lil bit at #13. Fans would have reacted the same way that they did for Cam, maybe even moreso that we went after another SG after already having Booker and Josh Jackson.

But in Hindsight everyone knows what we should have done, who we should have got, and get appalled that we reached for a guy mocked to go 3 to 10 spots later, yet expected us to not take guys mocked in our range in the past like Len or Bender or Chriss or Jackson and instead reach even further for guys mocked to go much much much later (Becuase in hindsight you now know what those players can do).

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