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Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN

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Top three stars of the game

Bridges
40
24%
CP3
21
13%
Crowder
10
6%
Booker
42
25%
Galloway
10
6%
Ayton
13
8%
Cam
28
17%
Carter
4
2%
 
Total votes: 168

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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#601 » by Bogyo » Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:07 pm

Flying Colors wrote:
SlovenianDragon wrote:
Bogyo wrote:Quick thoughts:
Team needs to gel a bit. And not play against Doncic.
Also, I'm sorry but I need to get a "toldyaso" in - the bench will win us quite a few games this year. Especially when Saric is back. Payne and Saric will take care of playmaking, Cam and Galloway the scoring, Carter and Payne the D. Good stuff.


I remember during the Nash era there were so many times our bench would out play and out score the starters and it felt so good to watch. Feels like we have that bench again that can hold their own.

For sure, especially that ‘10 team. Dragic, Dudley, Sweet Lou, Barbosa and Channing/Rolo. That was a magical year


I think that by the end of the year (when they got familiar with each other, rotations, Smith with NBA experience) this seasons bench could be even better than that. That is no joke. :o
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#602 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:33 pm

On the Dallas side they really need Porzingis back because eye test wise the suns really looked like the more talented team. Luka is great so they won't be bad but I'm not sure I'd just pencil them in as a top 6 team in the stacked west.

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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#603 » by SlovenianDragon » Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:44 pm

Homer hot take....

Mikal > Doncic
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#604 » by darmani » Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:44 pm

CP3 had 16 potential assists last night.
Ayton contested 8 3-pointers against the Mavs (he finished 2nd in the NBA last year at 5.1 contested 3-point FGA per game).
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#605 » by Saberestar » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:10 pm

Shoutout to Galloway who scored 11 points (4/5 shooting) in less than 9 minutes.

He is gonna help a lot during the season.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#606 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:17 pm

Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:Our transition D was terrible. Ayton's driving was way better. Got a couple fouls off the dribble.

Payne I think is clearly our backup PG. He just has a lot more talent than Carter. The game has slowed down for him and him becoming a legit scorer has opened things up quite a bit.

Johnson needs to start. I'm not saying it just on this game. He's been a top 5 player on this team since the bubble, and the main reason we took off imo was Oubre being out and Cam taking his spot. No offense to Crowder, but Cam's shooting at his size with even passable defense has more value than Jae does. Also, with Cam in a corner and Ayton with Book or Paul on the PnR, it especially works with Bridges's cutting ability. That group fits very well together. Cam is big enough to play the 4. They need to make this move sooner than later imo.

Galloway was great. I think Moore still will play on this team.

I'd like to see this 11 man rotation. Depending on resting situations and opponent, the guy left out could differ:

Paul / Payne / Carter
Booker / Galloway / Payne
Bridges / Crowder / Moore
Johnson / Saric / Smith / Crowder
Ayton / Saric / Smith


I think it's fairly clear we can afford to get rid of Jones or Kaminsky and take another wing. Smith is good enough to be our temporary backup center and 3rd string once Saric gets back. No reason for Jones to stay here. I'd really look at Frank Jackson for the last roster spot and Zhaire Smith for a 2 way. Zhaire was such a monster defender in college and an infectious disease derailed his career so far. It's well worth a 2 way spot to see what happens there imo.


I'd get rid of Jones as soon as someone is available and then Kaminsky maybe if someone else does.

I agree that Johnson should start...though the scoring off the bench is nice too.

Crowder is a better matchup for opposing starting PFs and we have enough offensive power on the starting lineup.

Bridges has improved a lot on offense, so we have already four guys that can score efficiently on the starting lineup. Crowder do not care about points and does not need plays run for him and he is great defensively.

Cam Johnson is perfect for the role that he already has, he will get touches and I love the fit next to Saric.


I don't really care anyway, and the Power Twin Cam duo + Galloway off the bench is a nice spark, so we are fine. You are right in that Crowder is probably a better fit with Booker because you probably want as many role playing shooters around him as possible since the offense doesn't always flow as well when he slows things down.

Then add Saric to that bench and it's even better.

Ultimately I have never been a "This guy NEEDS to start" guy as long as the guys get their minutes...and he does play with the starters a lot anyway.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#607 » by Revived » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:18 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:On the Dallas side they really need Porzingis back because eye test wise the suns really looked like the more talented team. Luka is great so they won't be bad but I'm not sure I'd just pencil them in as a top 6 team in the stacked west.

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They lack athleticism without Porzingis especially around the rim. We had like 7 or 8 blocks as a team and they had 0.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#608 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:26 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:
denial wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
So he shot a tad better from the field, however Bridges took 7 of his 11 shots from 3 and Booker took 9 of his 15 from 2.

But look at everything else. Turnovers - Booker 8, Bridges 0
Rebounds - Bridges 7, Booker 5
Blocks - Bridges 2, Booker 0
3 pt shooting - Bridges 4-7, Booker 2-6
Free throws - Bridges 4-4, Booker 4-6

So overall, with TS%, Bridges was more efficient

Bridges was also responsible for a lot of Doncic not shooting well.

Booker did have 3 assists though (but the 8 turnovers don't look that too impressive)...a couple of steals though as well, which, I guess you could say, kind of cancels 2 of his 8 turnovers, but even a net 6 is bad.


I love Bridges. I was specifically rebutting the notion that Book "forced" things tonight. And I used a comparison to everyone's (well deserved) glowing reviews of Bridges' game as a reference point.
I am definitely not saying Book outplayed Bridges or was more efficient than him.

I feel like Booker played exactly as he should, but got screwed over hard by the refs. He had 1 trip to the line 11 seconds into the game and then didn't get another trip until 1:44 left in the 4th quarter... That's super suspicious.


I don't like tons of fouls being called either way, but there were some dumb fouls called on Booker. I do like quicker play though, and do wish Booker would make quicker decisions unless it's the end of the quarter or we REALLY need a bucket, but I'd always rather him pass for a wide open shot over taking a contested one under any circumstance...that goes for any player unless they can get to the rim and make it or draw a foul. Typically Book ends up with a solid 2 pt FG% though despite taking some tough contested shots, so overall over the course of a season it works.

Personally I have always hate too much iso ball though whether it be Harden, Doncic or Booker....hated watching Kobe play too. You always see Jordan iso highlights but he usually made quick decisins. I also hated when Barkley slowed things down so much and took KJ's run-n-gun Suns out of the rhythm, but he never dribbled around the court..he just slowed down and backed down the defender and then turned around and shot or passed out for an assist, which is a decent play and not too much iso. I just prefer the nice crisp offense like the Suns from 89-92, the SSOL Suns, the Warriors a few years back, etc.

I know I can be hard on Book but I just feel he could be a lot more fun to watch, but I know a ton of people love iso and the Kobe, Harden, Doncic, Booker style of iso play and baiting fouls, challenging defenders one on one and hopefully hitting that contested shot.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#609 » by Revived » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:37 pm

I like Cam coming off the bench because our bench needs that scoring (along with Galloway/Payne). Crowder is good as a starter cause he needs playmakers like CP3 to be effective, I don’t think he would be very good playing with Payne.

Just an off shooting night for Crowder. Had some decent looks, just didn’t fall.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#610 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:37 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I'd get rid of Jones as soon as someone is available and then Kaminsky maybe if someone else does.

I agree that Johnson should start...though the scoring off the bench is nice too.


I liked Crowder as the starter even though his shooting was off ... everything else he did was great. I just think we need bench firepower so having Cam be a scorer there is fine. He will get plenty of minutes backing up both Bridges and Crowder. Plus he has a good rapport with Saric.


I can get behind a Zhaire Smith acquisition. Its really too bad $arver sold the g league team. He'd be a great add and have him spend some time there. Still, pick him up either way.


Put him on a 2 way...don't play him since we have Galloway and Moore, can't hurt but not a great sign he was cut so fast.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#611 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:40 pm

NTB wrote:
Read on Twitter


I would love to hear someone ask more tough questions though like is Booker required or at least preferred to run the .5 offense after crossing half court and/or getting the ball in the offense?

I think part of it might be improved court vision to cut down the turnovers, though a lot of those come after getting into bad situations.

Our beat writers are all younger though so a lot of softballs questions.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#612 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:48 pm

Revived wrote:I think considering the circumstances for the whole game, we have to pleased with how it played out and of course getting the win.

Ayton was really good defensively but just had some terrible calls against him. Luka is just so crafty that when he drives, the player has to basically move away from him and still try to contest somehow. He’s way too good at drawing fouls and the league needs to change this crap because nobody will play defense at this point.

Offensively Ayton had some good post buckets but he also had some really dumb fade aways when he was matched with smaller players. I have no idea who taught him that he should go AWAY from the rim but whoever that is has no business coaching basketball.

CP3 did ok. I think he’s gonna learn that he needs to be more aggressive looking to score. There were times when the Mavs knew he wasn’t gonna try to get a bucket so they essentially just played passing lanes when he had the ball. I think better chemistry will help and it’s gonna come with time. Great bucket at the end there.

Booker was really good in the 1st QTR and sort of first half. Then in the 2nd half he wanted to make it a Booker vs Luka show and dominate the ball a little too much. Hopefully he remembers how bad this team was when we had too much Point Book in the past. He’s also learning to play with CP3 so it’s gonna get better imo.

Rookie Smith was better than Jones imo. We really need someone like Dwayne Dedmond though even as an emergency big after Saric gets back.

Cam and Bridges were the biggest reason we won the game imo. Both showed they can do more than just 3 & D. Especially Bridges, I really liked watching him try to do more off the ball. Hope it continues same with Cam.


I agree with all that. With CP3 and Book playing bad overall, despite the shots at the end, Paul's 2nd quarter and Book's 1st quarter. Crowder hitting nothing until very late in the game, and Ayton's foul calls, on offense oddly enough, getting that win was huge.

Bridges will be a very important player. His overall efficiency, quick release 3 with his old college %s back, Cam with the quick trigger, and better backup PG in Cam (cross my fingers it continues, even if the 3 doesn't all and he has the occasional bad pass like the one that was WAY too high and went out of bounds), and of course Galloway never missing and being a quick trigger too.

Also Saric being out hurt and even Kaminsky is good in short spurts against backups....the problem last year is when Ayton, Baynes and even Saric was out, he had to start a number of games and that should not happen.

Two years ago he had a near 59% TS % hitting 36% from 3 and over 55% from 2 (dropped to 53% last year from 2 and also from 2) and the year before that, he shot 38% from 3.

If he can just get back to 37% from 3 and 55% from 2 he'd be a nice player over Jones. When he plays with confidence he looks good. He looked good early last year...better than Saric when Saric struggled. People were not particularly high on Saric and much preferred Baynes back until the bubble....at least the majority.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#613 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:49 pm

SlovenianDragon wrote:
nevetsov wrote:
Kyler Murray wrote:love me some Johnson


:lol:


Randy Johnson is the best name ever.

A sexually aroused or excited man's penis.


I'd have to go with Magic Johnson.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#614 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:53 pm

Saberestar wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
Mr Puddles wrote:
I was just pointing out how silly it is to look at one game and draw such a sweeping conclusion like "CP3's leadership really shining right now... Much better than Rubio's leadership... Yep...".

Obviously, Rubio was very valuable for us this past season.

If you want to criticize the Paul acquisition based on his only game as a Sun this far, that's fine, don't be surprised when other people point out that Rubio didn't have the best of evenings either.

I've always said CP3 is going to have to prove he's better than Rubio was. When he does, I will acknowledge it. He has not yet.

Continuity is a big boon that we tossed out the window. We need demonstrable improvement to make throwing it out worth it.

What about the last 9 seasons? Both have been in the league for a LONG time, this is gonna be Rubio's 10th season in the league and year after year CP3 has been way better than him.

I would understand to say that if James Jones would have traded Rubio for a rookie PG like Halliburton or LaMelo...but to say that trading him for Paul?? JJ and Monty know what they are doing.

Paul did not play well this game but even on an off shooting night you can see his positive impact on the court. He was huge in the last three minutes of the game, clutch on both sides.

Carlisle put Finney Smith on CP3 since the start of the game, he is their best defender next to Richardson and that was helpful for the rest of our starters (Bridges). Rubio would never get THAT attention and a top defender on him. You need to consider things like that when comparing them.


Yeah, once CP3 gets back to last year form, watch out. It's nice we have 2 days in between games this time, since that will be rare, and maybe Saric comes back for one of them, though that's probably more unlikely than likely. I'd play Smith as primary backup 5 though for now until Saric is back.

There were people on the GB saying CP3 looked washed, and that would be very bad...at any time the next two seasons, but if so, we can hopefully go back to Rubio unless we find a legit starter. I hope Payne keeps progressing but I don't see him as a starter ever really..but who knows.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#615 » by Revived » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:55 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:I think considering the circumstances for the whole game, we have to pleased with how it played out and of course getting the win.

Ayton was really good defensively but just had some terrible calls against him. Luka is just so crafty that when he drives, the player has to basically move away from him and still try to contest somehow. He’s way too good at drawing fouls and the league needs to change this crap because nobody will play defense at this point.

Offensively Ayton had some good post buckets but he also had some really dumb fade aways when he was matched with smaller players. I have no idea who taught him that he should go AWAY from the rim but whoever that is has no business coaching basketball.

CP3 did ok. I think he’s gonna learn that he needs to be more aggressive looking to score. There were times when the Mavs knew he wasn’t gonna try to get a bucket so they essentially just played passing lanes when he had the ball. I think better chemistry will help and it’s gonna come with time. Great bucket at the end there.

Booker was really good in the 1st QTR and sort of first half. Then in the 2nd half he wanted to make it a Booker vs Luka show and dominate the ball a little too much. Hopefully he remembers how bad this team was when we had too much Point Book in the past. He’s also learning to play with CP3 so it’s gonna get better imo.

Rookie Smith was better than Jones imo. We really need someone like Dwayne Dedmond though even as an emergency big after Saric gets back.

Cam and Bridges were the biggest reason we won the game imo. Both showed they can do more than just 3 & D. Especially Bridges, I really liked watching him try to do more off the ball. Hope it continues same with Cam.


I agree with all that. With CP3 and Book playing bad overall, despite the shots at the end, Paul's 2nd quarter and Book's 1st quarter. Crowder hitting nothing until very late in the game, and Ayton's foul calls, on offense oddly enough, getting that win was huge.

Bridges will be a very important player. His overall efficiency, quick release 3 with his old college %s back, Cam with the quick trigger, and better backup PG in Cam (cross my fingers it continues, even if the 3 doesn't all and he has the occasional bad pass like the one that was WAY too high and went out of bounds), and of course Galloway never missing and being a quick trigger too.

Also Saric being out hurt and even Kaminsky is good in short spurts against backups....the problem last year is when Ayton, Baynes and even Saric was out, he had to start a number of games and that should not happen.

Two years ago he had a near 59% TS % hitting 36% from 3 and over 55% from 2 (dropped to 53% last year from 2 and also from 2) and the year before that, he shot 38% from 3.

If he can just get back to 37% from 3 and 55% from 2 he'd be a nice player over Jones. When he plays with confidence he looks good. He looked good early last year...better than Saric when Saric struggled. People were not particularly high on Saric and much preferred Baynes back until the bubble....at least the majority.

I still like Baynes more. Yesterday when Ayton got in foul trouble, I thought to myself “man last season was nice because even when Ayton went out, we still had a very competent C in the game that provides defense/rebounds/3s” in Baynes. I certainly hope Smith can develop into that.

Kaminsky had a good start with us last season. IIRC, his first like 3-5 games he was doing very well then dropped off. I hope he can provide that again whenever he gets on the team.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#616 » by wheezy » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:01 pm

darmani wrote:CP3 had 16 potential assists last night.
Ayton contested 8 3-pointers against the Mavs (he finished 2nd in the NBA last year at 5.1 contested 3-point FGA per game).

How many of those were makes last night? Seemed like the couple times I saw him get switched on defense he'd back off so they wouldn't drive around him and he wouldn't close out until they had already gotten a good look at the hoop.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#617 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:06 pm

Revived wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:I think considering the circumstances for the whole game, we have to pleased with how it played out and of course getting the win.

Ayton was really good defensively but just had some terrible calls against him. Luka is just so crafty that when he drives, the player has to basically move away from him and still try to contest somehow. He’s way too good at drawing fouls and the league needs to change this crap because nobody will play defense at this point.

Offensively Ayton had some good post buckets but he also had some really dumb fade aways when he was matched with smaller players. I have no idea who taught him that he should go AWAY from the rim but whoever that is has no business coaching basketball.

CP3 did ok. I think he’s gonna learn that he needs to be more aggressive looking to score. There were times when the Mavs knew he wasn’t gonna try to get a bucket so they essentially just played passing lanes when he had the ball. I think better chemistry will help and it’s gonna come with time. Great bucket at the end there.

Booker was really good in the 1st QTR and sort of first half. Then in the 2nd half he wanted to make it a Booker vs Luka show and dominate the ball a little too much. Hopefully he remembers how bad this team was when we had too much Point Book in the past. He’s also learning to play with CP3 so it’s gonna get better imo.

Rookie Smith was better than Jones imo. We really need someone like Dwayne Dedmond though even as an emergency big after Saric gets back.

Cam and Bridges were the biggest reason we won the game imo. Both showed they can do more than just 3 & D. Especially Bridges, I really liked watching him try to do more off the ball. Hope it continues same with Cam.


I agree with all that. With CP3 and Book playing bad overall, despite the shots at the end, Paul's 2nd quarter and Book's 1st quarter. Crowder hitting nothing until very late in the game, and Ayton's foul calls, on offense oddly enough, getting that win was huge.

Bridges will be a very important player. His overall efficiency, quick release 3 with his old college %s back, Cam with the quick trigger, and better backup PG in Cam (cross my fingers it continues, even if the 3 doesn't all and he has the occasional bad pass like the one that was WAY too high and went out of bounds), and of course Galloway never missing and being a quick trigger too.

Also Saric being out hurt and even Kaminsky is good in short spurts against backups....the problem last year is when Ayton, Baynes and even Saric was out, he had to start a number of games and that should not happen.

Two years ago he had a near 59% TS % hitting 36% from 3 and over 55% from 2 (dropped to 53% last year from 2 and also from 2) and the year before that, he shot 38% from 3.

If he can just get back to 37% from 3 and 55% from 2 he'd be a nice player over Jones. When he plays with confidence he looks good. He looked good early last year...better than Saric when Saric struggled. People were not particularly high on Saric and much preferred Baynes back until the bubble....at least the majority.

I still like Baynes more. Yesterday when Ayton got in foul trouble, I thought to myself “man last season was nice because even when Ayton went out, we still had a very competent C in the game that provides defense/rebounds/3s” in Baynes. I certainly hope Smith can develop into that.

Kaminsky had a good start with us last season. IIRC, his first like 3-5 games he was doing very well then dropped off. I hope he can provide that again whenever he gets on the team.


I mistyped a couple things there...not sure why I said "except CP3 2nd quarter" and mean to say it should have said Frank dropped also from 3 in the second part..dropped to 33% from 3) and a far worse TS% than the year before, but still think he could be a solid backup 5 if we need him, but with Smith, we may not even need him.

As far as Baynes, yeah, I wanted to keep him too, but moreso I wanted to sign Holmes to a multi year contract after 2 years ago..he was cheap and effective...could have gotten him for like 2/10.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#618 » by alamin330 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:53 pm

Jalen Smith almost gave me an anxiety attack when they put him in. I’m happy he held his own out there. I’ll give credit when it’s due and he played great considering.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#619 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:35 pm

alamin330 wrote:Jalen Smith almost gave me an anxiety attack when they put him in. I’m happy he held his own out there. I’ll give credit when it’s due and he played great considering.


Meanwhile Vassell had 3 pts and 3 rebounds. Haliburton did pretty well though with 12 pts, 4 assists, 2 boards and a block in 30 minutes.
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Re: Game 1: Dallas Mavericks @ Phoenix Suns l Wednesday l 8:30pm l ESPN 

Post#620 » by sunsbg » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:05 pm

Revived wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:On the Dallas side they really need Porzingis back because eye test wise the suns really looked like the more talented team. Luka is great so they won't be bad but I'm not sure I'd just pencil them in as a top 6 team in the stacked west.

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They lack athleticism without Porzingis especially around the rim. We had like 7 or 8 blocks as a team and they had 0.


They will always need great defenders around Doncic, who's only goal on D is to collect uncontested rebounds. Most efficient offense in history and still 7th in the West last year. Wonder why.

As I mentioned in a previous post it's key they make him work on D, Mikal in this case, though he's usually hidden defending opponent's worst O player.

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