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2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces

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Who have been our 2 most impactful players so far this season?

Ayton
12
10%
Booker
10
8%
Bridges
55
47%
Crowder
3
3%
Johnson
8
7%
Paul
13
11%
Payne
17
14%
 
Total votes: 118

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2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#1 » by bwgood77 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:16 am

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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#2 » by King4Day » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:33 am

I’m sure the nuggets won’t do it but adding harden to that team, talent wise, could make them serious title contenders. They won’t deal porter though which makes me think they’re trying to move Murray instead
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#3 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:48 am

King4Day wrote:I’m sure the nuggets won’t do it but adding harden to that team, talent wise, could make them serious title contenders. They won’t deal porter though which makes me think they’re trying to move Murray instead
I'm probably in the minority but I'm dubious of Porter. I'd absolutely deal him for a star like harden. Although with Harden they would need to gauge his interest in staying there or Denver might be better off waiting on the next guy.


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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#4 » by PerkinsFor3 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:36 am

King4Day wrote:I’m sure the nuggets won’t do it but adding harden to that team, talent wise, could make them serious title contenders. They won’t deal porter though which makes me think they’re trying to move Murray instead

Theyre not moving Murray. They would move MPjr before theyd move Murray.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#5 » by Revived » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:07 am

King4Day wrote:I’m sure the nuggets won’t do it but adding harden to that team, talent wise, could make them serious title contenders. They won’t deal porter though which makes me think they’re trying to move Murray instead

They absolutely will not move Murray are you kidding lol. Kid’s one of the rising stars in the game today.

They would probably consider moving Jokic before Murray if it came to it due to the higher ceiling on the latter. But right now their definitely looking to build around Jokic & Murray and find a 3rd option that compliments both. Their MPJ can grow into it otherwise they will move him.

Denver plays a very anti-iso style of basketball so I’m not sure Harden would be a good fit there. Malone would probably not get along well with Harden’s personality either. Best situation for him would be a team like Philly imo because while Doc Rivers is very poor at coaching the Xs and Os of basketball, he’s a great at dealing with star players and their ego so it would be a great fit there from that standpoint.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#6 » by NTB » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:21 pm

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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#7 » by BobbieL » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:51 pm

Revived wrote:
King4Day wrote:I’m sure the nuggets won’t do it but adding harden to that team, talent wise, could make them serious title contenders. They won’t deal porter though which makes me think they’re trying to move Murray instead

They absolutely will not move Murray are you kidding lol. Kid’s one of the rising stars in the game today.

They would probably consider moving Jokic before Murray if it came to it due to the higher ceiling on the latter. But right now their definitely looking to build around Jokic & Murray and find a 3rd option that compliments both. Their MPJ can grow into it otherwise they will move him.

Denver plays a very anti-iso style of basketball so I’m not sure Harden would be a good fit there. Malone would probably not get along well with Harden’s personality either. Best situation for him would be a team like Philly imo because while Doc Rivers is very poor at coaching the Xs and Os of basketball, he’s a great at dealing with star players and their ego so it would be a great fit there from that standpoint.


I have no idea what team Harden would work with. He is a tremendous talent but the ball kind of stops with him. And if you like your offense to be him dribbling a bunch, and yes, he will score it. But in the playoffs - that wasn't good enough. I just remember against the Warriors - they were so efficient on offense and the Rockets would have Harden pound the ball and in that series, three bad possessions was the different in the last 6 minutes - would Harden do the same

I can see him with the Nets because they already have two guys who can dominate the ball - whats a third. Philly - not feeling it. Maybe the Heat.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#8 » by bwgood77 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:27 pm

Revived wrote:
King4Day wrote:I’m sure the nuggets won’t do it but adding harden to that team, talent wise, could make them serious title contenders. They won’t deal porter though which makes me think they’re trying to move Murray instead

They absolutely will not move Murray are you kidding lol. Kid’s one of the rising stars in the game today.

They would probably consider moving Jokic before Murray if it came to it due to the higher ceiling on the latter. But right now their definitely looking to build around Jokic & Murray and find a 3rd option that compliments both. Their MPJ can grow into it otherwise they will move him.

Denver plays a very anti-iso style of basketball so I’m not sure Harden would be a good fit there. Malone would probably not get along well with Harden’s personality either. Best situation for him would be a team like Philly imo because while Doc Rivers is very poor at coaching the Xs and Os of basketball, he’s a great at dealing with star players and their ego so it would be a great fit there from that standpoint.


Zero chance they would move Murray before Jokic, but they won't move either...I mean if Doncic or another young star was on the table maybe they'd move Murray but that's not going to happen.

Teams will not want Harden...they wouldn't risk giving away a lot for him and possibly destroying chemistry. I wouldn't want him. They are the 3 seed likely if LAC and LAL are healthy and don't rest players too much.

They have depth. Jokic is a great initiator...Harden would minimize impact of others. He never leads teams anywhere....he may have been able to play a part 2-3 years ago when they had Paul and had GS on the ropes in the WCF before Paul got injured, but I think a team like Brooklyn, Denver and even Milwaukee gets worse with him. Bucks would have the best chance of getting better because they'd give up less and wouldn't deal Giannis, but they are not a great fit together and they'd have to deal Middleton and Lopez, two key parts and they already lack depth. I wouldn't do it.

I wouldn't do it if I was Brooklyn either. Their depth is great...they have a solid bench and a lot of great role players around KD and Kyrie and Kyrie is the primary ballhandler but KD is a better ball handler after GS then they have LeVert who handles and Dinwiddie.

Harden + Kyrie is a recipe for disaster. Harden is too much of a one man team.

Oh yeah, Philly is the best fit but you are giving up a great player if you play Simmons. And with Harden you need to play 4 out anyway, not unlike Simmons, unless you want Harden launching up a bunch of iso 3s.

I probably wouldn't pull the trigger if I was Philly, unless it was straight up or they were getting picks back. I think they should actually get picks back actually do to length of control. Harden could leave in 2 years. Houston may get desperate too if no one bites.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#9 » by bwgood77 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:35 pm

I mean Week, you keep on mentioning absolutely trading all these key players for him. Even trading Paul and Ayton, or Paul and Bridges, would you want to do those things? 2 years of Harden's ball domination. I think Booker could play off of him, and we'd have ok depth at the 3 but lose very high potential players in Bridges and Ayton.

I'm probably higher on Ayton's potential at this point more than most, but I think he can easily be a top 5 C in this league behind only Jokic, Embiid, Towns and Nurkic. At some point could pass up the latter two, but that would depend. Towns is very good, but due to defensive limitations, etc, he has never seemed to greatly impact winning.

And I think Bridges can turn into a George type player or possibly Kawhi lite.

I wouldn't give up either for Harden and while giving up Paul would seem a no brainer looking from afar, I think he will have enormous impact on our young guys, particularly Ayton and Smith, and the guards like Payne, Carter and even a little more vet guards like Galloway and Moore (though I don't know if either sticks around more than a year because both likely get MLE type deals next year given the market).
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#10 » by Bogyo » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:38 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Revived wrote:
King4Day wrote:I’m sure the nuggets won’t do it but adding harden to that team, talent wise, could make them serious title contenders. They won’t deal porter though which makes me think they’re trying to move Murray instead

They absolutely will not move Murray are you kidding lol. Kid’s one of the rising stars in the game today.

They would probably consider moving Jokic before Murray if it came to it due to the higher ceiling on the latter. But right now their definitely looking to build around Jokic & Murray and find a 3rd option that compliments both. Their MPJ can grow into it otherwise they will move him.

Denver plays a very anti-iso style of basketball so I’m not sure Harden would be a good fit there. Malone would probably not get along well with Harden’s personality either. Best situation for him would be a team like Philly imo because while Doc Rivers is very poor at coaching the Xs and Os of basketball, he’s a great at dealing with star players and their ego so it would be a great fit there from that standpoint.


I have no idea what team Harden would work with. He is a tremendous talent but the ball kind of stops with him. And if you like your offense to be him dribbling a bunch, and yes, he will score it. But in the playoffs - that wasn't good enough. I just remember against the Warriors - they were so efficient on offense and the Rockets would have Harden pound the ball and in that series, three bad possessions was the different in the last 6 minutes - would Harden do the same

I can see him with the Nets because they already have two guys who can dominate the ball - whats a third. Philly - not feeling it. Maybe the Heat.


The thing is, that Harden did/could play other style, where he was off ball more, cutting, moving the ball, etc. Mostly back in OKC, but still, if you get him on a good team, a coach he respects and another star player he respects he could be a different guy. But that is too many ifs buts and maybes. I think his attitude and personality suck by now, b/c he bought his own hype. Shame, becouse he could put a team like Denver over the top. But I totally understand why nobody really wants to trade for him - and the Rockets will have to accept 50 cents on the Dollar, becouse there is such a big risk in acquiring him.
Philly makes the most sense, but again, not sure if they wanna take the risk on Harden.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#11 » by King4Day » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:19 pm

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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#12 » by bwgood77 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:49 pm

In a way it's like trading for Barkley after the 95-96 season, a few years removed from being the MVP, thought he was still one of the best players and still put up great numbers. But Houston didn't do well with him, even after having just won a couple championships and also adding Pippen. Pippen hated playing with him and thought he didn't work hard enough or take things seriously enough. It's not exactly the same, and Harden is a couple years younger than Barkley, but he is crazier, has a harder time getting along with teammates, and thinks he is the best player in the NBA....Barkley may have just some similarities.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#13 » by BobbieL » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:18 pm

bwgood77 wrote:In a way it's like trading for Barkley after the 95-96 season, a few years removed from being the MVP, thought he was still one of the best players and still put up great numbers. But Houston didn't do well with him, even after having just won a couple championships and also adding Pippen. Pippen hated playing with him and thought he didn't work hard enough or take things seriously enough. It's not exactly the same, and Harden is a couple years younger than Barkley, but he is crazier, has a harder time getting along with teammates, and thinks he is the best player in the NBA....Barkley may have just some similarities.


Good comparison.

If I am the Heat and I can keep Bam Adebayo but give up say Herro, Nunn and cap filler like Olynyk and maybe Meyers Leonard (I have read guys that signed contracts can be traded unlike recent years) - maybe thats teh best deal

Harden and Jimmy Buckets might work
He would respect Spoestra - Houston gets Herro and draft picks to build around.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#14 » by Mulhollanddrive » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:38 pm

I think you'd ideally have Harden as your no.3 luxury star.

He's not been able to get his team past the big games as a top 2 player on his team.

That's why I think Denver should go for him, he'd have Murray and Jokic carry the expectation and he can play his game.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#15 » by Bogyo » Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:12 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:I think you'd ideally have Harden as your no.3 luxury star.

He's not been able to get his team past the big games as a top 2 player on his team.

That's why I think Denver should go for him, he'd have Murray and Jokic carry the expectation and he can play his game.


His salary is too much for that. I played around with the trade machine a cpl days ago, and Denver would have to gut their team to get Harden b/c of salaries. They would have no real bench, no real complementary players. That is why Philly is the most logical choice, Simmons and a min player works for Harden.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#16 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:13 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:I think you'd ideally have Harden as your no.3 luxury star.

He's not been able to get his team past the big games as a top 2 player on his team.

That's why I think Denver should go for him, he'd have Murray and Jokic carry the expectation and he can play his game.


If I was Houston, I'd trade him to NY. They still have him for 2 years with a player option at $47 million in the 3rd. He'd probably end up loving it there, and despite his partying, he still has been near MVP level the past few years.

Give up Toppin or Barrett for him and a couple protected picks along with protected pick swaps..maybe even just top 4 protected...along with DSJr, Frank or Quickly and Randle and other filler...but I think they have cap space.

Harden may not like it but that is one place he might stay..he would be a God in NY and probably love the nightlife...and if he could get them to the playoffs and they could keep Toppin with Robinson by dealing Barrett..maybe throw in Knox if they want him...do it.

They need to stop rebuilding at some point.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#17 » by Kyler Murray » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:39 pm

bwgood77 wrote:I mean Week, you keep on mentioning absolutely trading all these key players for him. Even trading Paul and Ayton, or Paul and Bridges, would you want to do those things? 2 years of Harden's ball domination. I think Booker could play off of him, and we'd have ok depth at the 3 but lose very high potential players in Bridges and Ayton.

I'm probably higher on Ayton's potential at this point more than most, but I think he can easily be a top 5 C in this league behind only Jokic, Embiid, Towns and Nurkic. At some point could pass up the latter two, but that would depend. Towns is very good, but due to defensive limitations, etc, he has never seemed to greatly impact winning.

And I think Bridges can turn into a George type player or possibly Kawhi lite.

I wouldn't give up either for Harden and while giving up Paul would seem a no brainer looking from afar, I think he will have enormous impact on our young guys, particularly Ayton and Smith, and the guards like Payne, Carter and even a little more vet guards like Galloway and Moore (though I don't know if either sticks around more than a year because both likely get MLE type deals next year given the market).


Call me crazy but I wouldn't trade either of them for Harden after his recent antics. That's a team chemistry destroyer if I ever saw one.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#18 » by wheezy » Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:54 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:I think you'd ideally have Harden as your no.3 luxury star.

He's not been able to get his team past the big games as a top 2 player on his team.

That's why I think Denver should go for him, he'd have Murray and Jokic carry the expectation and he can play his game.

To be fair though, the Rockets were extremely close to getting to the finals a couple times. Also, I don't really think you need 3 stars to compete for the championship this year.... the league is a bit more open now that the Warriors are broken up and even the Lakers are hardly unbeatable.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#19 » by NTB » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:01 pm

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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#20 » by sunskerr » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:46 pm

Harden would be the #1 option on that Nuggets team lol. What are you smoking? His offensive production supersedes Murray's tenfold, and yes, even Jokic's by a fair amount. The only thing he probably is poor at is off-ball movement. You may not like Harden but there is no denying he is in the absolute tip top tier of offensive players.

They would do well on the Nuggets to reign him in though, to his own and the team's benefit. You won't see Houston numbers from him any longer. They would all take pressure off each other in that scenario. I see him and Jokic being 1a and 1b in that scenario, with Murray moving to a more shooting guard role which allows Murray to do his thing without being keyed in on by opposing defenses so often.

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