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2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22, Kerrsed

Who have been our 2 most impactful players so far this season?

Ayton
12
10%
Booker
10
8%
Bridges
55
47%
Crowder
3
3%
Johnson
8
7%
Paul
13
11%
Payne
17
14%
 
Total votes: 118

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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#301 » by wheezy » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Game tonight was postponed (per Woj).... they heard we didn't have a game thread set up yet.


Read on Twitter
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#302 » by Bogyo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:22 pm

Revived wrote:
Read on Twitter


Out of 877 votes (most of which I assume are Suns fans), 70% are saying they would do this trade.

I’d like a trade for Collins but that Capela contract is pretty awful.


Capela remaining is 48mio/3years, no? I mean, that's far from good, but not like it's untradeable in a year or 2. Trade is not that good either imho. I might do it or might not... So maybe it is fair?

(Plus: if 70% of your own teams fans want you gone - in a not very good trade for said team, I might add - you should take a loooong hard look in the mirror.)
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#303 » by dmastro32 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:43 pm

wheezy wrote:Game tonight was postponed (per Woj).... they heard we didn't have a game thread set up yet.


Read on Twitter




NBA needs to do a 14 day pause and set up regional bubbles for each division and after you play each team some sort of rotation to a new bubble or just do conference bubbles.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#304 » by Saberestar » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:49 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#305 » by Desertfox » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:51 pm

Suns socially distancing defense confirmed to be effective!
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#306 » by King4Day » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:08 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
King4Day wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Well assuming this is done daily, hopefully it has to do with stuff they did last night post game.

But sooner or later it will hit the Suns. It's hit a lot of teams and a number of really good players. The Heat are missing all their best players tonight but I think the Sixers have theirs...some Sixers have missed games earlier too though.

This makes winning games like Det and Wash so much more important. I still can't believe we could shoot THAT poorly and that everyone can be off from 3 in the same game.


It usually takes 4-5 days of being infected before a covid test will detect it. So, if Wizard players had it, chances are the Suns were all exposed. Wouldn't be surprised if we don't play again for a week


I thought most of these were just contact tracing protocols and not actually positive tests?


I think with contact tracing, they need to be tested a handful of days in a row to make sure they didn't get it. If so, then the Suns need to wait also for potential contact tracing too. I dunno, my brain hurts thinking about it
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#307 » by Flying Colors » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:38 pm

Anyone paying attention know this would be an issue with the Wizards, NBA is losing their hold on this, pausing 14 days would be the probably be best thing to do to try and get another handle on this, with stricter guidelines.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#308 » by Revived » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:52 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:I think CP3 is the bigger issue. He's the biggest cog we've added to the machine and while on a per possession perspective he can be very good, over a quarter he slows things down way too much, he lets teams settle into their defenses before we even get into our sets and quite frankly, he's wasting the advantages of the youth (speed, endurance) in our starting line up. 1st half is when we should be running up the scoreboard, playing with a little bit of abandonment but we really don't do that until that 2nd unit comes in and it's not like that 2nd unit is undisciplined. They run more simplified sets, they move the ball around but they just do things quicker. It's the only reason why they are so much better than our very methodical, robotic starting unit.

I wonder how Rubio would look on this exact same team. Basically same team that he went undefeated with in the bubble + Crowder.

He really was great for Ayton as well just like he was for Gobert.

Plus with the development that Bridges has made, Rubio would’ve made our starting 5 one of the most effective units in the league imo.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#309 » by Blonde » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:00 pm

Flying Colors wrote:Anyone paying attention know this would be an issue with the Wizards, NBA is losing their hold on this, pausing 14 days would be the probably be best thing to do to try and get another handle on this, with stricter guidelines.

I don’t think the league is confident it what players/staff will do if left to their own devices for 2 weeks.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#310 » by Biff » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:41 pm

Revived wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I think CP3 is the bigger issue. He's the biggest cog we've added to the machine and while on a per possession perspective he can be very good, over a quarter he slows things down way too much, he lets teams settle into their defenses before we even get into our sets and quite frankly, he's wasting the advantages of the youth (speed, endurance) in our starting line up. 1st half is when we should be running up the scoreboard, playing with a little bit of abandonment but we really don't do that until that 2nd unit comes in and it's not like that 2nd unit is undisciplined. They run more simplified sets, they move the ball around but they just do things quicker. It's the only reason why they are so much better than our very methodical, robotic starting unit.

I wonder how Rubio would look on this exact same team. Basically same team that he went undefeated with in the bubble + Crowder.

He really was great for Ayton as well just like he was for Gobert.

Plus with the development that Bridges has made, Rubio would’ve made our starting 5 one of the most effective units in the league imo.



Agreed. Paul is a better player but Rubio had really wonderful chemistry with the team. So far I haven't seen this as an upgrade, even though Rubio is playing pretty badly in Minny. We will see how the chemistry develops though.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#311 » by bigfoot » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:04 pm

Revived wrote:
Read on Twitter


Out of 877 votes (most of which I assume are Suns fans), 70% are saying they would do this trade.

I’d like a trade for Collins but that Capela contract is pretty awful.


This trade doesn't even work ... salaries don't match even remotely close.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#312 » by BobbieL » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:12 pm

From the twitter feed of Adrian Wojnarowski --
Harden, or is it Kendrick Perkins, is being traded to the Nets in a blockbuster trade.

I will see if another tweet comes through but has to be Levert, Prince, Allen and picks for Harden. Might as well include Tucker to the Nets

Read on Twitter


Edit:

Shams chiming in

The Nets are trading for All-NBA star James Harden and sending four first-round picks and four draft swaps to the Rockets, sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA

@Stadium
. Caris LeVert, Jarrett Allen are being moved -- could be another team or two involved.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#313 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:42 pm

Revived wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I think CP3 is the bigger issue. He's the biggest cog we've added to the machine and while on a per possession perspective he can be very good, over a quarter he slows things down way too much, he lets teams settle into their defenses before we even get into our sets and quite frankly, he's wasting the advantages of the youth (speed, endurance) in our starting line up. 1st half is when we should be running up the scoreboard, playing with a little bit of abandonment but we really don't do that until that 2nd unit comes in and it's not like that 2nd unit is undisciplined. They run more simplified sets, they move the ball around but they just do things quicker. It's the only reason why they are so much better than our very methodical, robotic starting unit.

I wonder how Rubio would look on this exact same team. Basically same team that he went undefeated with in the bubble + Crowder.

He really was great for Ayton as well just like he was for Gobert.

Plus with the development that Bridges has made, Rubio would’ve made our starting 5 one of the most effective units in the league imo.

As I mentioned in another post, Rubio had the full offseason and a full training camp to get to know the guys and build chemistry whereas Paul didn't. That's a pretty big difference. But there is also the truth that Paul is the type of player that will have a big impact on the way his team plays, as with all elite players. So starting out, I expect we'd be a better team, have better chemistry and probably win more games and I'm getting way ahead of myself but we got CP3 not just to get to the playoffs but to go deep. That's the risk we took for that potential reward.

Having a good regular season team that squeaks into the playoffs would only be a minor improvement over last season.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#314 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:43 pm

Levert for Oladipo is a funny one. I would've preferred keeping Levert over Oladipo
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#315 » by bigfoot » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:51 pm

Desertfox wrote:Suns socially distancing defense confirmed to be effective!


In combination with socially distancing along the three-point arc on offense. They should be safe.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#316 » by MrMiyagi » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:55 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I think CP3 is the bigger issue. He's the biggest cog we've added to the machine and while on a per possession perspective he can be very good, over a quarter he slows things down way too much, he lets teams settle into their defenses before we even get into our sets and quite frankly, he's wasting the advantages of the youth (speed, endurance) in our starting line up. 1st half is when we should be running up the scoreboard, playing with a little bit of abandonment but we really don't do that until that 2nd unit comes in and it's not like that 2nd unit is undisciplined. They run more simplified sets, they move the ball around but they just do things quicker. It's the only reason why they are so much better than our very methodical, robotic starting unit.

Just going to leave this here:
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=paulch01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=rubiori01&p2yrfrom=2020

EDIT: Of all of our 2-man lineups, CP3 has 1 positive combo (+0.4 with Cam Johnson), and Deandre has 0. They are also the 2nd most used 2-man combo behind Booker and Bridges...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2021/lineups/#lineups_2-man_

Last season's 2-man lineups for comparison
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2020/lineups/#lineups_2-man_

I'll make some excuses for Paul (from the optimist side of me)

1. Rubio had the benefit of having a full training camp and full offseason to get to know the guys and be ready for the season. Our guys and coaching staff also had the opportunity to get to know Rubio. The chemistry was a lot stronger going into last season than this season based purely on the time they had together.

2. CP3 didn't have the training camp, a much shortened offseason and was also coming into a team that had awesome chemistry after the perfect Bubble. So he's coming trying to learn how our guys play on the fly while also trying to do what he knows best and that's run plays.

3. Still early in the season and it's good that we've hit some bumps early in the season as it gives us plenty of time to figure out what the issues are and how we can address them. CP3 teams generally don't start out with a bang but build chemistry over time so when that happens, Ayton will be better, Booker will be better and all the starters will be better. If CP3 can play with Harden, he can play with our guys. It's just a matter of building that chemistry and trust.
All fair points, but I would have hoped the front office would've foreseen the wonkiness of this season to help weigh the pros and cons of bringing in CP3 vs keeping Rubio. Think of how well we'd be running if we kept Rubio. Would we be 10-1 right now? Would we be 4-7 instead? The same 7-4? Is it going to take us half a season to really get running with CP3? Is that going to make us miss the playoffs or be the difference between home court advantage and not?

Even more than that, at least for me, is this team fun to watch? It's kind of hard to say yes right now for me. I like that we're playing good defense, but our offensive possessions are U-G-L-Y.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#317 » by spanishninja » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:08 pm

yeah, John Wall and Dipo don't seem like they will work well at all. But wait, they get Dante Exum!

Not a playoff team imo.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#318 » by Blonde » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:09 pm

I can’t believe I’m saying this already but how much would we need to include to flip CP3 for Ben Simmons? For the record I like CP3 quite a bit, but he could help Philly now that they’ve missed out on Harden. Their short term ceiling would be raised quite a but IMO. If we did that trade I’d also look to move Ayton pretty quickly.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#319 » by m1chal » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:20 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:Even more than that, at least for me, is this team fun to watch?


I love the defense (very unusual feeling for Suns fans), hate slow pace and chucking 50 3s a game. Overall, no :( I want a more diversified offense.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#320 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:29 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Just going to leave this here:
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=paulch01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=rubiori01&p2yrfrom=2020

EDIT: Of all of our 2-man lineups, CP3 has 1 positive combo (+0.4 with Cam Johnson), and Deandre has 0. They are also the 2nd most used 2-man combo behind Booker and Bridges...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2021/lineups/#lineups_2-man_

Last season's 2-man lineups for comparison
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2020/lineups/#lineups_2-man_

I'll make some excuses for Paul (from the optimist side of me)

1. Rubio had the benefit of having a full training camp and full offseason to get to know the guys and be ready for the season. Our guys and coaching staff also had the opportunity to get to know Rubio. The chemistry was a lot stronger going into last season than this season based purely on the time they had together.

2. CP3 didn't have the training camp, a much shortened offseason and was also coming into a team that had awesome chemistry after the perfect Bubble. So he's coming trying to learn how our guys play on the fly while also trying to do what he knows best and that's run plays.

3. Still early in the season and it's good that we've hit some bumps early in the season as it gives us plenty of time to figure out what the issues are and how we can address them. CP3 teams generally don't start out with a bang but build chemistry over time so when that happens, Ayton will be better, Booker will be better and all the starters will be better. If CP3 can play with Harden, he can play with our guys. It's just a matter of building that chemistry and trust.
All fair points, but I would have hoped the front office would've foreseen the wonkiness of this season to help weigh the pros and cons of bringing in CP3 vs keeping Rubio. Think of how well we'd be running if we kept Rubio. Would we be 10-1 right now? Would we be 4-7 instead? The same 7-4? Is it going to take us half a season to really get running with CP3? Is that going to make us miss the playoffs or be the difference between home court advantage and not?

Even more than that, at least for me, is this team fun to watch? It's kind of hard to say yes right now for me. I like that we're playing good defense, but our offensive possessions are U-G-L-Y.

I think we can be confident they did weigh the pros and cons. Ultimately, when you have an opportunity to upgrade a position to a top 15-20 player without losing much, you seriously consider it. And right now the big issue isn't talent but chemistry and chemistry is something that you can build over time. Talent, especially top talent, is not something you just find within yourself during the season, you get it when the opportunity is there to get it.

I'll just say this, as much as I enjoyed Rubio on our team let's not forget how frustrated we were with him with the things he just couldn't do because he just didn't have those skills in his tool belt. And quite frankly, as much as I like to see a 10-1 start, the start is not what I really care about or rate us on, it's where we finish that matters. I still have confidence in this team
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though

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