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2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces

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Who have been our 2 most impactful players so far this season?

Ayton
12
10%
Booker
10
8%
Bridges
55
47%
Crowder
3
3%
Johnson
8
7%
Paul
13
11%
Payne
17
14%
 
Total votes: 118

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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#321 » by grumpysaddle » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:40 pm

cberry78 wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:

False positives are a thing. Either they didn't actually have it the first time, or they don't actually have it a second time, most likely.

False negatives are also a thing. With the pattern surrounding/following the Wizards games, it looks like there is an asymptomatic superspreader that's also somehow getting reported as a negative COVID carrier....which is probably scarier to me than anything else I can think of with this virus.

Oh for sure, it's all super scary. I haven't left my room since March, basically. Not taking any chances seeing how loose others have been with their precautions around me. I have chronic asthma, so I'm not **** around. I will be getting the vaccine as soon as possible.

Edit: My original point was that it's unlikely that multiple players have gotten Covid twice, and that's not something I'm personally super worried about at this point.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#322 » by sasquatchBob » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:43 pm

Blonde wrote:I can’t believe I’m saying this already but how much would we need to include to flip CP3 for Ben Simmons? For the record I like CP3 quite a bit, but he could help Philly now that they’ve missed out on Harden. Their short term ceiling would be raised quite a but IMO. If we did that trade I’d also look to move Ayton pretty quickly.


CP3 + Cam + 2 first round picks. Something like that seems fair value wise but I think Sixers would still say no. I don't think they want to move away from Simmons, especially with a new coach there.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#323 » by Mulhollanddrive » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:43 pm

How much did this play on our mind on the recent road trip?

Jalen Smith out for contract tracing before the Detroit game = L
Nothing for Indiana game = W
Washington have a 4 game spreading streak before their game = L
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#324 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:51 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I think CP3 is the bigger issue. He's the biggest cog we've added to the machine and while on a per possession perspective he can be very good, over a quarter he slows things down way too much, he lets teams settle into their defenses before we even get into our sets and quite frankly, he's wasting the advantages of the youth (speed, endurance) in our starting line up. 1st half is when we should be running up the scoreboard, playing with a little bit of abandonment but we really don't do that until that 2nd unit comes in and it's not like that 2nd unit is undisciplined. They run more simplified sets, they move the ball around but they just do things quicker. It's the only reason why they are so much better than our very methodical, robotic starting unit.

Just going to leave this here:
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=paulch01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=rubiori01&p2yrfrom=2020

EDIT: Of all of our 2-man lineups, CP3 has 1 positive combo (+0.4 with Cam Johnson), and Deandre has 0. They are also the 2nd most used 2-man combo behind Booker and Bridges...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2021/lineups/#lineups_2-man_

Last season's 2-man lineups for comparison
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2020/lineups/#lineups_2-man_


Every single one of those 2 man lineups that are positive involve our bench unit, except for 1, which is Booker and Bridges, who, coincidentally are the two last guys to sub out and stay in during the first to play with our bench unit and play the most with the bench.

Our entire starting lineup is bad.

If you look at 3 and 4 man lineups our best ones involve one or both of the Cams playing with Booker and Bridges.

There is still context though because you have a nice bench playing with two really good players in Booker and Bridges playing against other bench units, so you would expect them to outscore another team's bench with two solid starters...a scorer and a defender.

It may be an argument for starting Cam Johnson at least. You could say Payne too but they are not benching Paul, and I seriously doubt those numbers with the Cam's would be nearly as good against starting units.

Need to try more different lineup combos though.

It would be interesting to see how we played if Paul got injured.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#325 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:54 pm

cberry78 wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:

False positives are a thing. Either they didn't actually have it the first time, or they don't actually have it a second time, most likely.

False negatives are also a thing. With the pattern surrounding/following the Wizards games, it looks like there is an asymptomatic superspreader that's also somehow getting reported as a negative COVID carrier....which is probably scarier to me than anything else I can think of with this virus.


I agree about the false tests, but these Washington precautions are due to contact tracing....where they know a player came into contact with someone who had tested positive..they may not necessarily be positive.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#326 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:58 pm

Bogyo wrote:
Revived wrote:
Read on Twitter


Out of 877 votes (most of which I assume are Suns fans), 70% are saying they would do this trade.

I’d like a trade for Collins but that Capela contract is pretty awful.


Capela remaining is 48mio/3years, no? I mean, that's far from good, but not like it's untradeable in a year or 2. Trade is not that good either imho. I might do it or might not... So maybe it is fair?

(Plus: if 70% of your own teams fans want you gone - in a not very good trade for said team, I might add - you should take a loooong hard look in the mirror.)


It's also a lot of knee jerk reactions after a few bad games this year after a 9 month lay off in quarantine with 8 games in the middle. Jumping to conclusions very quickly after how much he improved last year pre-bubble and averaged 18-12 with vastly improved D.

Also, do people want to give Collins a max along with that Capela contract?

Hawks (especially their fans) would probably love getting a rookie contract for 2 more years on Ayton knowing he still has a lot of upside and also have Okongwu without him while also avoiding a max or near max deal for Collins and getting rid of that 3/48 on Capela.

Doesn't even seem like this trade would work cap wise anyway.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#327 » by bigfoot » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:59 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I think CP3 is the bigger issue. He's the biggest cog we've added to the machine and while on a per possession perspective he can be very good, over a quarter he slows things down way too much, he lets teams settle into their defenses before we even get into our sets and quite frankly, he's wasting the advantages of the youth (speed, endurance) in our starting line up. 1st half is when we should be running up the scoreboard, playing with a little bit of abandonment but we really don't do that until that 2nd unit comes in and it's not like that 2nd unit is undisciplined. They run more simplified sets, they move the ball around but they just do things quicker. It's the only reason why they are so much better than our very methodical, robotic starting unit.

Just going to leave this here:
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=paulch01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=rubiori01&p2yrfrom=2020

EDIT: Of all of our 2-man lineups, CP3 has 1 positive combo (+0.4 with Cam Johnson), and Deandre has 0. They are also the 2nd most used 2-man combo behind Booker and Bridges...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2021/lineups/#lineups_2-man_

Last season's 2-man lineups for comparison
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2020/lineups/#lineups_2-man_


Every single one of those 2 man lineups that are positive involve our bench unit, except for 1, which is Booker and Bridges, who, coincidentally are the two last guys to sub out and stay in during the first to play with our bench unit and play the most with the bench.

Our entire starting lineup is bad.

If you look at 3 and 4 man lineups our best ones involve one or both of the Cams playing with Booker and Bridges.

There is still context though because you have a nice bench playing with two really good players in Booker and Bridges playing against other bench units, so you would expect them to outscore another team's bench with two solid starters...a scorer and a defender.

It may be an argument for starting Cam Johnson at least. You could say Payne too but they are not benching Paul, and I seriously doubt those numbers with the Cam's would be nearly as good against starting units.

Need to try more different lineup combos though.

It would be interesting to see how we played if Paul got injured.


Cam Johnson was integral as a starter in the bubble. I could see Crowder going to the bench unit.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#328 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:02 pm

BobbieL wrote:From the twitter feed of Adrian Wojnarowski --
Harden, or is it Kendrick Perkins, is being traded to the Nets in a blockbuster trade.

I will see if another tweet comes through but has to be Levert, Prince, Allen and picks for Harden. Might as well include Tucker to the Nets

Read on Twitter


Edit:

Shams chiming in

The Nets are trading for All-NBA star James Harden and sending four first-round picks and four draft swaps to the Rockets, sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA

@Stadium
. Caris LeVert, Jarrett Allen are being moved -- could be another team or two involved.


Good, Harden to the east and LeVert, who I have on two fantasy teams, to the Rockets and not playing with as many stars but next to Wall, Wood, Tucker, etc. Rockets could still be pretty good though with Wall/LeVert/Tucker/Wood/Allen, or start Gordon and move someone else to the bench...also have Cousins who has played pretty well.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#329 » by MrMiyagi » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:04 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:From the twitter feed of Adrian Wojnarowski --
Harden, or is it Kendrick Perkins, is being traded to the Nets in a blockbuster trade.

I will see if another tweet comes through but has to be Levert, Prince, Allen and picks for Harden. Might as well include Tucker to the Nets

Read on Twitter


Edit:

Shams chiming in

The Nets are trading for All-NBA star James Harden and sending four first-round picks and four draft swaps to the Rockets, sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA

@Stadium
. Caris LeVert, Jarrett Allen are being moved -- could be another team or two involved.


Good, Harden to the east and LeVert, who I have on two fantasy teams, to the Rockets and not playing with as many stars but next to Wall, Wood, Tucker, etc. Rockets could still be pretty good though with Wall/LeVert/Tucker/Wood/Allen, or start Gordon and move someone else to the bench...also have Cousins who has played pretty well.
Indiana got LeVert, Houston got Oladipo
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#330 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:07 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:From the twitter feed of Adrian Wojnarowski --
Harden, or is it Kendrick Perkins, is being traded to the Nets in a blockbuster trade.

I will see if another tweet comes through but has to be Levert, Prince, Allen and picks for Harden. Might as well include Tucker to the Nets

Read on Twitter


Edit:

Shams chiming in

The Nets are trading for All-NBA star James Harden and sending four first-round picks and four draft swaps to the Rockets, sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA

@Stadium
. Caris LeVert, Jarrett Allen are being moved -- could be another team or two involved.


Good, Harden to the east and LeVert, who I have on two fantasy teams, to the Rockets and not playing with as many stars but next to Wall, Wood, Tucker, etc. Rockets could still be pretty good though with Wall/LeVert/Tucker/Wood/Allen, or start Gordon and move someone else to the bench...also have Cousins who has played pretty well.
Indiana got LeVert, Houston got Oladipo


Yeah, I see that in subsequent posts. I agree with whoever said they'd rather have LeVert than Oladipo. Good for Indiana though. Worse for Houston unless Dipo can get back to all star form, but LeVert is near at all star form right now.

This might bode better for us having an all star now with Harden moving to the east.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#331 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:17 pm

bigfoot wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Just going to leave this here:
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=paulch01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=rubiori01&p2yrfrom=2020

EDIT: Of all of our 2-man lineups, CP3 has 1 positive combo (+0.4 with Cam Johnson), and Deandre has 0. They are also the 2nd most used 2-man combo behind Booker and Bridges...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2021/lineups/#lineups_2-man_

Last season's 2-man lineups for comparison
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2020/lineups/#lineups_2-man_


Every single one of those 2 man lineups that are positive involve our bench unit, except for 1, which is Booker and Bridges, who, coincidentally are the two last guys to sub out and stay in during the first to play with our bench unit and play the most with the bench.

Our entire starting lineup is bad.

If you look at 3 and 4 man lineups our best ones involve one or both of the Cams playing with Booker and Bridges.

There is still context though because you have a nice bench playing with two really good players in Booker and Bridges playing against other bench units, so you would expect them to outscore another team's bench with two solid starters...a scorer and a defender.

It may be an argument for starting Cam Johnson at least. You could say Payne too but they are not benching Paul, and I seriously doubt those numbers with the Cam's would be nearly as good against starting units.

Need to try more different lineup combos though.

It would be interesting to see how we played if Paul got injured.


Cam Johnson was integral as a starter in the bubble. I could see Crowder going to the bench unit.

Cam for Crowder isn't solving the issue though. Pace is the issue imo and Cam being primarily off the ball isn't going to have the ball enough to speed things up dramatically. It starts with CP3 picking up the pace and if he isn't doing that then we need to bring Payne or even Gallo early so we can pick up the pace.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#332 » by Golanator » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:47 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#333 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:50 pm

Damn, well at least that's better than us playing a game with like 7 players.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#334 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:00 am

I guess after the contact tracing for two guys who played minutes against us, some Wizards have now tested positive.

No Suns have yet, but I imagine that is coming, unless they've already had it (I'm still suspect people truly get it twice).

The Suns gave their players the day off Tuesday after the Washington Wizards, who Phoenix played Monday night, announced two players were placed under COVID-19 health and safety protocols.

Washington canceled its Tuesday practice “out of an abundance of caution.” Wojnarowski added that some Wizards have since tested positive, and the league confirmed that both postponements are due to contact tracing procedures affecting Phoenix.

Arizona Sports’ John Gambadoro adds that no Suns tested positive for coronavirus since the Washington game, but Phoenix will be required to undergo additional testing as there is lag time between transmission and positive tests for the virus.

The two Washington players under protocols are forward Rui Hachimura and center Moe Wagner. Hachimura started and played 28 minutes Monday in a win over the Suns, while Wagner registered 22 off the bench. Both players were officially listed as questionable for Washington’s game against the Utah Jazz on Wednesday.


https://arizonasports.com/story/2506010/hawks-suns-game-postponed-due-covid-19-contact-tracing-warriors/
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#335 » by bigfoot » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:02 am

bwgood77 wrote:I guess after the contact tracing for two guys who played minutes against us, some Wizards have now tested positive.

No Suns have yet, but I imagine that is coming, unless they've already had it (I'm still suspect people truly get it twice).

The Suns gave their players the day off Tuesday after the Washington Wizards, who Phoenix played Monday night, announced two players were placed under COVID-19 health and safety protocols.

Washington canceled its Tuesday practice “out of an abundance of caution.” Wojnarowski added that some Wizards have since tested positive, and the league confirmed that both postponements are due to contact tracing procedures affecting Phoenix.

Arizona Sports’ John Gambadoro adds that no Suns tested positive for coronavirus since the Washington game, but Phoenix will be required to undergo additional testing as there is lag time between transmission and positive tests for the virus.

The two Washington players under protocols are forward Rui Hachimura and center Moe Wagner. Hachimura started and played 28 minutes Monday in a win over the Suns, while Wagner registered 22 off the bench. Both players were officially listed as questionable for Washington’s game against the Utah Jazz on Wednesday.


https://arizonasports.com/story/2506010/hawks-suns-game-postponed-due-covid-19-contact-tracing-warriors/


Now we understand why the Suns played so poorly. They didn't want to be out there catching COVID from the Wiz.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#336 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:05 am

This annoys me. Why wouldn't the NBA have postponed all of the Wizards game and got them to self-isolate for two weeks?
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Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#337 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:13 am

There is speculation with so many games some may not be rescheduled due to condensed schedule.

So of course our two games are against not very tough teams at home...they are both pretty good (decent) but would have been nice if it was the Lakers/Clippers...even if they are postponed maybe we'd have ironed out our kinks.

Of course our first game back after players sitting at home might be against the Pacers probably wanting to beat us after getting beat and now have LeVert as well.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#338 » by cberry78 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:25 am

bigfoot wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I guess after the contact tracing for two guys who played minutes against us, some Wizards have now tested positive.

No Suns have yet, but I imagine that is coming, unless they've already had it (I'm still suspect people truly get it twice).

The Suns gave their players the day off Tuesday after the Washington Wizards, who Phoenix played Monday night, announced two players were placed under COVID-19 health and safety protocols.

Washington canceled its Tuesday practice “out of an abundance of caution.” Wojnarowski added that some Wizards have since tested positive, and the league confirmed that both postponements are due to contact tracing procedures affecting Phoenix.

Arizona Sports’ John Gambadoro adds that no Suns tested positive for coronavirus since the Washington game, but Phoenix will be required to undergo additional testing as there is lag time between transmission and positive tests for the virus.

The two Washington players under protocols are forward Rui Hachimura and center Moe Wagner. Hachimura started and played 28 minutes Monday in a win over the Suns, while Wagner registered 22 off the bench. Both players were officially listed as questionable for Washington’s game against the Utah Jazz on Wednesday.


https://arizonasports.com/story/2506010/hawks-suns-game-postponed-due-covid-19-contact-tracing-warriors/


Now we understand why the Suns played so poorly. They didn't want to be out there catching COVID from the Wiz.

I actually thought this while watching the game.

I read somewhere that Wagner and Hachimura both tested positive and both played 20+ against the Suns.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#339 » by Saberestar » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:35 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Just going to leave this here:
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=paulch01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=rubiori01&p2yrfrom=2020

EDIT: Of all of our 2-man lineups, CP3 has 1 positive combo (+0.4 with Cam Johnson), and Deandre has 0. They are also the 2nd most used 2-man combo behind Booker and Bridges...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2021/lineups/#lineups_2-man_

Last season's 2-man lineups for comparison
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2020/lineups/#lineups_2-man_

I'll make some excuses for Paul (from the optimist side of me)

1. Rubio had the benefit of having a full training camp and full offseason to get to know the guys and be ready for the season. Our guys and coaching staff also had the opportunity to get to know Rubio. The chemistry was a lot stronger going into last season than this season based purely on the time they had together.

2. CP3 didn't have the training camp, a much shortened offseason and was also coming into a team that had awesome chemistry after the perfect Bubble. So he's coming trying to learn how our guys play on the fly while also trying to do what he knows best and that's run plays.

3. Still early in the season and it's good that we've hit some bumps early in the season as it gives us plenty of time to figure out what the issues are and how we can address them. CP3 teams generally don't start out with a bang but build chemistry over time so when that happens, Ayton will be better, Booker will be better and all the starters will be better. If CP3 can play with Harden, he can play with our guys. It's just a matter of building that chemistry and trust.
All fair points, but I would have hoped the front office would've foreseen the wonkiness of this season to help weigh the pros and cons of bringing in CP3 vs keeping Rubio. Think of how well we'd be running if we kept Rubio. Would we be 10-1 right now? Would we be 4-7 instead? The same 7-4? Is it going to take us half a season to really get running with CP3? Is that going to make us miss the playoffs or be the difference between home court advantage and not?

Even more than that, at least for me, is this team fun to watch? It's kind of hard to say yes right now for me. I like that we're playing good defense, but our offensive possessions are U-G-L-Y.

Losing is not fun, and we lost a lot of games last year. We were 26W-39L before the bubble, and even after the bubble we were just 34-39. We were mediocre, not even a .500 team.

We played terrible games, but our bubble performance made people to change our mind about our team. But the truth is that we weren't that fun or that good, results could tell you that.

We are integrating two players on our starting five and 8 new faces on the roster...and for now we have been really good. 7W-4L, 4th in the West. Yeah, results are everything.

Not every game has been fun,that's true, but we have played terrific games against the Pelicans, Jazz, Nuggets and Pacers. I mean...tough games were we scored efficiently and we played very good defense. Defense has been impressive every single game until the last one against the Wizards.

So for now I am pretty happy with the team. Obviously the Wizards game has been the worst, but it was the last game on a road trip for the East. We have been there on every other game so far this season.

CP3 is a player that knows how to dose himself during the season. He is playing well and he basically won for us that game against the Nuggets, but you know that he could play a bit faster. He is healthy and with him we have exactly the type of veteran player that you need next to Booker, Bridges, Ayton, Cam Johnson and Smith.
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Re: 2020 Season Speculation - the season begins, with a lot of new faces 

Post#340 » by spanishninja » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:57 am

goddamn, it looks like Friday's game against the Warriors is also postponed.

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-nba-postpones-hawks-suns-game-162914070.html

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