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Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm

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Who are your three favorite all time Suns PG?

Kidd
15
10%
KJ
35
24%
Dragic
18
12%
Marbury
4
3%
Nash
50
34%
CP3
11
8%
Rubio
10
7%
Kendal Marshall
3
2%
 
Total votes: 146

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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#441 » by Frank Lee » Sat Jan 2, 2021 8:23 pm

Damn
That was fast
RIP Westy.

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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#442 » by Adrao » Sat Jan 2, 2021 9:03 pm

Keith_myath wrote:Booker needs to accept he isn't 'the man' that he thinks he is, and is instead a streaky player with stat-padding tendencies.

He needs to identify when he's not streaking and step back and let those who are, or the leaders of the team, take control.
I agree with you, Booker is not a leader like CP3, he took that role because last years the team was weak but now he is or should be a secondary player as Bridges or Ayton are. There is only one superstar in the team, Paul.
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#443 » by bwgood77 » Sat Jan 2, 2021 9:21 pm

King4Day wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:Am I the only one that looks at the General board super infrequently and is generally weirded out that there are Suns fans that have never posted on the Suns board? Like... they only exist on the General board. It's fricking weird.


The worst is when they open threads and talk up the Suns. Making the board look worse than we are


Everyone extremely high on Atlanta after they beat Brooklyn handily and barely lost to them in their first game...both games in Brooklyn.

Brooklyn probably has the best bench in the NBA though..it's practically the team that led them to the playoffs last year...ATL might have the second best...may be only the two games with more proven talent on their bench than us, though with us playing one of Booker or Paul with our 4 bench players works very well.
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#444 » by bwgood77 » Sat Jan 2, 2021 9:30 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Man… Y’all need to watch this game again. Yeah we won, but we won on the defense end almost alone. Our offense has been stagnantly borderline horrible. I think there was but two successful plays run. This high screen handoff BS poor pick no rub start to every sequence puts us deep in the shot clock. Book or Paul often end up with 6-7 tics left, 35 feet from the hoop...and a lot of people standing around. I don’t know what the % was, but there were a lot of ISOs by necessity. Seriously, watch this again and see how pick and rolls with DA actually worked. Look for how many missed and no screens there were, as well as missed passes into the post or to a cutter. What the F are we doing, walking the ball up, setting super high ineffective picks, only to swing it around to do it again, all the while playing beat the buzzer. Driving Book doesn’t get even a rub nudge when he’s cutting around the corner. Gone are those Brick Baynes walls. Further more, Ayton is just to GD slow when he rolls to the rim. We should rename this play the Pick and Stroll. This crap isn’t working... we were damn lucky. This has to get better. Not a hater, but y’all are giddying up on the D so much, the Stinky O is getting a slide.


Defense is the main thing that has kept us in every game, and the 3 pt shooting in a couple. But I think other keys to this win were the efficient play of Ayton (10-13 with one miss a 3 and another one he immediately put back in) and finally us getting to the line more than the opposition where we shot over 91% on 21 FTs, then matching them for rebounds.

And even though the 3 pt shooting was down from a few of the other games, we shot 37.1% from 3 which wouuld have been good for 6th in the NBA last year and near 50% overall even including those 35 3s at that %, meaning we were probably over 60% from 2, since almost half our total shots were 3s.

The turnovers are the main sloppy thing that needs to be cleaned up, as we have 83 through 6 games, 35 of them fro Booker.
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#445 » by Saberestar » Sat Jan 2, 2021 9:57 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Man… Y’all need to watch this game again. Yeah we won, but we won on the defense end almost alone. Our offense has been stagnantly borderline horrible. I think there was but two successful plays run. This high screen handoff BS poor pick no rub start to every sequence puts us deep in the shot clock. Book or Paul often end up with 6-7 tics left, 35 feet from the hoop...and a lot of people standing around. I don’t know what the % was, but there were a lot of ISOs by necessity. Seriously, watch this again and see how pick and rolls with DA actually worked. Look for how many missed and no screens there were, as well as missed passes into the post or to a cutter. What the F are we doing, walking the ball up, setting super high ineffective picks, only to swing it around to do it again, all the while playing beat the buzzer. Driving Book doesn’t get even a rub nudge when he’s cutting around the corner. Gone are those Brick Baynes walls. Further more, Ayton is just to GD slow when he rolls to the rim. We should rename this play the Pick and Stroll. This crap isn’t working... we were damn lucky. This has to get better. Not a hater, but y’all are giddying up on the D so much, the Stinky O is getting a slide.

You need to give the team more credit because they were playing against a Western Conference Finals team on a back-to-back and on the road. Obviously they are good defensively and it's not easy to work clean sets against them.
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#446 » by suns12345 » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:08 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Man… Y’all need to watch this game again. Yeah we won, but we won on the defense end almost alone. Our offense has been stagnantly borderline horrible. I think there was but two successful plays run. This high screen handoff BS poor pick no rub start to every sequence puts us deep in the shot clock. Book or Paul often end up with 6-7 tics left, 35 feet from the hoop...and a lot of people standing around. I don’t know what the % was, but there were a lot of ISOs by necessity. Seriously, watch this again and see how pick and rolls with DA actually worked. Look for how many missed and no screens there were, as well as missed passes into the post or to a cutter. What the F are we doing, walking the ball up, setting super high ineffective picks, only to swing it around to do it again, all the while playing beat the buzzer. Driving Book doesn’t get even a rub nudge when he’s cutting around the corner. Gone are those Brick Baynes walls. Further more, Ayton is just to GD slow when he rolls to the rim. We should rename this play the Pick and Stroll. This crap isn’t working... we were damn lucky. This has to get better. Not a hater, but y’all are giddying up on the D so much, the Stinky O is getting a slide.

You need to give the team more credit because they were playing against a Western Conference Finals team on a back-to-back and on the road. Obviously they are good defensively and it's not easy to work clean sets against them.


This is a fair take here Frank. An I think its clear we have focused on our defence early in the season. I think the short pre season and new PG in CP3 will mean the offence will take some time to gel. Maybe it never progressed to be free flowing and pretty, but I think it will take time to reach our potential there, and it's great to be winning games in the interim.
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#447 » by ATTL » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:37 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#448 » by suns12345 » Sat Jan 2, 2021 11:09 pm

ATTL wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19


yikes, lmao
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#449 » by phx#7 » Sun Jan 3, 2021 1:15 am

suns12345 wrote:
ATTL wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19


yikes, lmao


Doesn't really look that bad. Look at everyone else staring at Murray. Appears to be some sort of zone and it's likely Mikal is responsible for rotating inside.
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#450 » by Frank Lee » Sun Jan 3, 2021 1:34 am

Watching game film on this one is going to be ugly for a few
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#451 » by sunskerr » Sun Jan 3, 2021 1:40 am

I know Harden was laughed at for a few years because he would lose his man on defense, but was he ever as bad as Booker in terms of overall defensive impact?
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#452 » by Bogyo » Sun Jan 3, 2021 8:25 am

Frank Lee wrote:Man… Y’all need to watch this game again. Yeah we won, but we won on the defense end almost alone. Our offense has been stagnantly borderline horrible. I think there was but two successful plays run. This high screen handoff BS poor pick no rub start to every sequence puts us deep in the shot clock. Book or Paul often end up with 6-7 tics left, 35 feet from the hoop...and a lot of people standing around. I don’t know what the % was, but there were a lot of ISOs by necessity. Seriously, watch this again and see how pick and rolls with DA actually worked. Look for how many missed and no screens there were, as well as missed passes into the post or to a cutter. What the F are we doing, walking the ball up, setting super high ineffective picks, only to swing it around to do it again, all the while playing beat the buzzer. Driving Book doesn’t get even a rub nudge when he’s cutting around the corner. Gone are those Brick Baynes walls. Further more, Ayton is just to GD slow when he rolls to the rim. We should rename this play the Pick and Stroll. This crap isn’t working... we were damn lucky. This has to get better. Not a hater, but y’all are giddying up on the D so much, the Stinky O is getting a slide.


I only watched the replay, and saw this, I just did not want to mention for a couple of reasons. We won. On the 2nd night of a back to back in denver, while the first game of said b2b was a close game in utah. Our big 3 all put up an OK - to great performance for the first time this season. Ayton had a particularly great game, for any standard. It would have been nitpicking about his game - and I have done that so many times that I just didn't feel like beating that dead horse again. Before this game I specifically pointed out all the things he sucked at on offense, his (lack of) PnR game (no real screens, not to mention any hard screens, slipping the screen to early or too late, not rolling hard or quick to the rim, etc...) and got a buch of sht for it, and about how he concentrates on D. I did not (still do not) understand how that has to do with anything I said about his O, which has seems to have regressed while playing with the point god, but I was tired of arguing with everybody making newer and newer "whatever" excuses for 3 years now. Still am. Not going there for a while again.
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#453 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Jan 3, 2021 9:41 am

Metrics we can still improve:

Team FTAs
---
Booker TOs
Paul FG%
Ayton FGAs
Carter FG%

That'd be scary for other teams if we can maintain our D and get our offense more efficient.
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#454 » by Slim Charless » Sun Jan 3, 2021 11:06 am

Bogyo wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Man… Y’all need to watch this game again. Yeah we won, but we won on the defense end almost alone. Our offense has been stagnantly borderline horrible. I think there was but two successful plays run. This high screen handoff BS poor pick no rub start to every sequence puts us deep in the shot clock. Book or Paul often end up with 6-7 tics left, 35 feet from the hoop...and a lot of people standing around. I don’t know what the % was, but there were a lot of ISOs by necessity. Seriously, watch this again and see how pick and rolls with DA actually worked. Look for how many missed and no screens there were, as well as missed passes into the post or to a cutter. What the F are we doing, walking the ball up, setting super high ineffective picks, only to swing it around to do it again, all the while playing beat the buzzer. Driving Book doesn’t get even a rub nudge when he’s cutting around the corner. Gone are those Brick Baynes walls. Further more, Ayton is just to GD slow when he rolls to the rim. We should rename this play the Pick and Stroll. This crap isn’t working... we were damn lucky. This has to get better. Not a hater, but y’all are giddying up on the D so much, the Stinky O is getting a slide.


I only watched the replay, and saw this, I just did not want to mention for a couple of reasons. We won. On the 2nd night of a back to back in denver, while the first game of said b2b was a close game in utah. Our big 3 all put up an OK - to great performance for the first time this season. Ayton had a particularly great game, for any standard. It would have been nitpicking about his game - and I have done that so many times that I just didn't feel like beating that dead horse again. Before this game I specifically pointed out all the things he sucked at on offense, his (lack of) PnR game (no real screens, not to mention any hard screens, slipping the screen to early or too late, not rolling hard or quick to the rim, etc...) and got a buch of sht for it, and about how he concentrates on D. I did not (still do not) understand how that has to do with anything I said about his O, which has seems to have regressed while playing with the point god, but I was tired of arguing with everybody making newer and newer "whatever" excuses for 3 years now. Still am. Not going there for a while again.


This goes for both of you. I think the general opinion was that ppl were excited about our defense-which has been godawful for years. Now, because of Ayton (and of course Bridges) we have made massive improvements so far.

If you guys wanna complain about a Suns player-lets talk about Mr. Devin Armani Booker. He is currently leading the league in turnovers and has been bricking FTs like he's trying to build a house. Ayton is better overall this year so far imo compared to his previous years.
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#455 » by Frank Lee » Sun Jan 3, 2021 1:36 pm

No slim, the general opinion was that we played great, that DA was excellent. Yes, We played great defensively. But Just watch the game, almost every offensive possession was a struggle, most of them adlibbing breakdowns with the shot clock ticking down. This offense doesn’t work. There is no system... just some hokey label. Furthermore, the bench plays with far more urgency and focus.

And this isn’t about Booker vrs Ayton as so many of you love to suggest. Book has been blowing. Hes getting the ball too late in the shot clock and has to go ISO. He’s falling into the ‘pass cause he can’t get his shot’ mode. And failing spectacularly. We don’t seem to be running too many plays for him as well. But Book is still drawing the most attention. And I’m not so sure CP is running this squad any better than Rubes. It’s a different approach. We don’t even start a play till 12+ seconds in. And then it’s usually the inept Pick and Stroll. It seems almost every shot is contested. I think I saw one successful fast break last game.... nobody even tries an aggressive outlet pass. We plod up the court at loafing speed. I think the bench is more fun to watch, as long as it’s Shankless.


Just watch closely and make a count next game of the Pick and Strolls, the non picks, the problems with spacing. The inability to get the ball to the roller. The frustration CP has. It burns the first 15 seconds off the clock with no results. If we are going to integrate Ayton into every play, he needs to get it. For now, I think this is asking too much tho, as he is BBIQly challenged. Like he has to think on every move, every step. Because he does. I don’t think he’ll ever be a good PnR guy. How many lobs have we seen so far ? May we can go back to that quick pass pass pass shoot offense that was being called beautiful. This quagmire O we are defaulting to is getting painful to watch. I’m beginning to think it’s the price we pay trying to engage the soft-minded DA.

Obviously , the D has been stifling, but other teams have been struggling too with the same excuse made here... new personnel, short camp, etc... it’s a luxury that side of the court has come together. Else we’d be getting blown out.
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#456 » by Bogyo » Sun Jan 3, 2021 3:10 pm

^^Yeah, what he said. Most of it anyways. Even I'm a bit more optimistic than he is. But his take on the bench (I'll add some staggered lineups, mostly bench scrappers with Mikal or Crowder, maybe Book or Ayton - but mostly bench guys) are more fun to watch bc they play the right way. They are more successful so far too as I see. We have "won" every single 2nd quarter so far, even in the lost game.
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#457 » by Bogyo » Sun Jan 3, 2021 3:17 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Metrics we can still improve:

Team FTAs
---
Booker TOs
Paul FG%
Ayton FGAs
Carter FG%

That'd be scary for other teams if we can maintain our D and get our offense more efficient.


I'm 100% sure these will improve. I'd bet my bottom dollar on these any time. Booker, Paul, Carter are just such hard workers that they will get through this, and pull back to the mean. Ayton can not shoot less, he will be more involved.

However, some of the other stuff will not hold. Our opponents are shooting like 28% from 3. Not gonna hold. Payne, Bridges, Cam will not shoot this good for all season. They will have more turnovers as well for sure. I've mentioned a couple more things like this in another post, I don't want to repeat myself all over.

All in all - we are a good team, and will continue to be good, just with some adjustments. We should finish 3rd-6th in the brutally packed west this year. Those seeds will be decided by 1-2 games, so a bit of luck will be involved. (injuries aside)
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#458 » by NTB » Sun Jan 3, 2021 3:47 pm

Bogyo wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Metrics we can still improve:

Team FTAs
---
Booker TOs
Paul FG%
Ayton FGAs
Carter FG%

That'd be scary for other teams if we can maintain our D and get our offense more efficient.


I'm 100% sure these will improve. I'd bet my bottom dollar on these any time. Booker, Paul, Carter are just such hard workers that they will get through this, and pull back to the mean. Ayton can not shoot less, he will be more involved.

However, some of the other stuff will not hold. Our opponents are shooting like 28% from 3. Not gonna hold. Payne, Bridges, Cam will not shoot this good for all season. They will have more turnovers as well for sure. I've mentioned a couple more things like this in another post, I don't want to repeat myself all over.

All in all - we are a good team, and will continue to be good, just with some adjustments. We should finish 3rd-6th in the brutally packed west this year. Those seeds will be decided by 1-2 games, so a bit of luck will be involved. (injuries aside)


Denver shot 41% from 3 and we beat them anyway. It was even gonna be a blowout win if we were smart. As you said if CP3-Booker-Ayton improves their numbers in the start of the season (which they will) it won't matter if Mikal and Camx2 can't hold their numbers. It will be compensated by our "big three".
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#459 » by Slim Charless » Sun Jan 3, 2021 4:48 pm

Frank Lee wrote:No slim, the general opinion was that we played great, that DA was excellent. Yes, We played great defensively. But Just watch the game, almost every offensive possession was a struggle, most of them adlibbing breakdowns with the shot clock ticking down. This offense doesn’t work. There is no system... just some hokey label. Furthermore, the bench plays with far more urgency and focus.

And this isn’t about Booker vrs Ayton as so many of you love to suggest. Book has been blowing. Hes getting the ball too late in the shot clock and has to go ISO. He’s falling into the ‘pass cause he can’t get his shot’ mode. And failing spectacularly. We don’t seem to be running too many plays for him as well. But Book is still drawing the most attention. And I’m not so sure CP is running this squad any better than Rubes. It’s a different approach. We don’t even start a play till 12+ seconds in. And then it’s usually the inept Pick and Stroll. It seems almost every shot is contested. I think I saw one successful fast break last game.... nobody even tries an aggressive outlet pass. We plod up the court at loafing speed. I think the bench is more fun to watch, as long as it’s Shankless.


Just watch closely and make a count next game of the Pick and Strolls, the non picks, the problems with spacing. The inability to get the ball to the roller. The frustration CP has. It burns the first 15 seconds off the clock with no results. If we are going to integrate Ayton into every play, he needs to get it. For now, I think this is asking too much tho, as he is BBIQly challenged. Like he has to think on every move, every step. Because he does. I don’t think he’ll ever be a good PnR guy. How many lobs have we seen so far ? May we can go back to that quick pass pass pass shoot offense that was being called beautiful. This quagmire O we are defaulting to is getting painful to watch. I’m beginning to think it’s the price we pay trying to engage the soft-minded DA.

Obviously , the D has been stifling, but other teams have been struggling too with the same excuse made here... new personnel, short camp, etc... it’s a luxury that side of the court has come together. Else we’d be getting blown out.



This brings it back to Booker again for me. I think he'll be fine and I'm sure that he'll go back to his old numbers soon enough. Book is down nearly 7 points off his average,, if we had just that than there wouldn't be any discussion about our offense. For now though, he's by far our weakest player this year. His defense while improving, is still not good and now he's not giving us that scoring production.

I agree that DA has (again) been playing too soft on offense and like many things he does, the PnR's are too passive. That said if his play continues like it has been this year he could easily be 1st or 2nd team all defense. When you think about where he started and where he is now in roughly 2 years-thats light-years of improvement on his part. So I don't think he's a "dumb" player as his rotations and switching has been great and he doesn't get caught in by guards/wings making stupid fouls.

I also like that our bench is preforming well and could be the best in the league this year. They've been our key. Monty and JJ seemed to have made a team of solid defenders around 1 sublime scorer.
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Re: Game 6: Phoenix Suns (4-1) @ Denver Nuggets (1-3) l Saturday l 7:00pm 

Post#460 » by Saberestar » Sun Jan 3, 2021 4:52 pm

Frank Lee wrote:No slim, the general opinion was that we played great, that DA was excellent. Yes, We played great defensively. But Just watch the game, almost every offensive possession was a struggle, most of them adlibbing breakdowns with the shot clock ticking down. This offense doesn’t work. There is no system... just some hokey label. Furthermore, the bench plays with far more urgency and focus.

And this isn’t about Booker vrs Ayton as so many of you love to suggest. Book has been blowing. Hes getting the ball too late in the shot clock and has to go ISO. He’s falling into the ‘pass cause he can’t get his shot’ mode. And failing spectacularly. We don’t seem to be running too many plays for him as well. But Book is still drawing the most attention. And I’m not so sure CP is running this squad any better than Rubes. It’s a different approach. We don’t even start a play till 12+ seconds in. And then it’s usually the inept Pick and Stroll. It seems almost every shot is contested. I think I saw one successful fast break last game.... nobody even tries an aggressive outlet pass. We plod up the court at loafing speed. I think the bench is more fun to watch, as long as it’s Shankless.


Just watch closely and make a count next game of the Pick and Strolls, the non picks, the problems with spacing. The inability to get the ball to the roller. The frustration CP has. It burns the first 15 seconds off the clock with no results. If we are going to integrate Ayton into every play, he needs to get it. For now, I think this is asking too much tho, as he is BBIQly challenged. Like he has to think on every move, every step. Because he does. I don’t think he’ll ever be a good PnR guy. How many lobs have we seen so far ? May we can go back to that quick pass pass pass shoot offense that was being called beautiful. This quagmire O we are defaulting to is getting painful to watch. I’m beginning to think it’s the price we pay trying to engage the soft-minded DA.

Obviously , the D has been stifling, but other teams have been struggling too with the same excuse made here... new personnel, short camp, etc... it’s a luxury that side of the court has come together. Else we’d be getting blown out.

We are 5-1 and we haven't played against any bad team yet. We played amazing basketball against the Pelicans.

We repeat and repeat that PnR with Ayton because is a play difficult to stop. Yeah, teams are ready for that play and it's broken a lot of times, but then you have the nice shot creation and shooting from our PGs and wings.

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