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Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22, Kerrsed

As a team what should Phoenix improve the most?

Less Turnovers
2
5%
More FT attempts
9
23%
Less ISO hero Booker
4
10%
More physicality
2
5%
Starter unit clicking better
16
40%
Pace (30th in league)
6
15%
Offensive Reb (27th in league)
1
3%
 
Total votes: 40

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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#401 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:42 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Ayton fans would say, it's because he's not getting the ball in scoring positions, he's not being used properly or whatever other excuses there are when he gets the ball an inevitably swings that damn thing right back out to the perimeter.

I just don't get how people don't understand that Ayton doesn't want the ball. He doesn't want the responsibility. He doesn't want to play a big part on offense. It's nothing to do with touches because he gets them. He wants to focus on defense and that's seemingly his only focus this season - I'm not even making that up, it's literally a quote from him.


The guy scored over 18 ppg in his second year..that's more than just about any C that has come into the NBA in quite a while outside of maybe a couple. Maybe just Towns. He scored more PPG in year 2 than KP or Jokic. Embiid didn't even play.

This is primarily coaching, system, a new PG, a slow downed pace, and emphasizing moving the ball quickly and shooting a lot of 3s. It's the .5 offense which requires him to shoot or pass immediately. Tonight he shot more when he got it early but he got it more in midrange and missed,which happens...everyone was missing shots tonight. I seriously doubt they want to run some low post offense like you are looking for.

Dude, you have to STOP making excuses for Ayton. It’s pretty annoying. Ayton is in a perfect situation for him to succeed. He’s surrounded by nothing but snipers, Ayton should be thriving in the paint. His point guard is arguably one of the best point guards ever. He has to be better, period!

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I agree he has to be better, but the whole team does in a game like tonight, minus Bridges and maybe Booker. And for the season, the whole entire starting unit has not played well together...this is hardly Ayton's fault. Last year he scored over 18 ppg and was part of two of the best lineups in the league when it came to net rtg.

It's also annoying that you and others want to solely blame him for everything. He can make one mistake and there are 10 posts about it...Booker can turn it over 5 times in a half and it's barely mentioned.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#402 » by bwoolf2 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:43 am

alamin330 wrote:
Revived wrote:We need Ayton to be effective on the days when our 3s are not falling. Him not being a threat on days where we do hit our 3s like the Pacers is fine because we don’t need it.

But when our 3s don’t fall, he needs to be the guy that can give us the inside scoring to stay in the game. That’s why we spend a #1 overall pick on him. The few games our 3s don’t fall, those are the days we need him to pick up the slack offensively.

I don’t know if they can justify giving him a $15M/yr contract next summer without him dominating in these easy matchups.

THEY DONT PASS HIM THE BALL!!!!!!! Hello are you there


Could that be because every time they pass him the ball he fumbles it or looks to immediately pass the ball out or avoids contact at every chance possible, my 70 year old grandma is more aggressive on the offensive post than Ayton
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#403 » by Flying Colors » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:49 am

Wasn’t able to catch the game tonight but wooof, if it smells like a trap game then you better believe this team will lose
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#404 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:49 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Ayton fans would say, it's because he's not getting the ball in scoring positions, he's not being used properly or whatever other excuses there are when he gets the ball an inevitably swings that damn thing right back out to the perimeter.

I just don't get how people don't understand that Ayton doesn't want the ball. He doesn't want the responsibility. He doesn't want to play a big part on offense. It's nothing to do with touches because he gets them. He wants to focus on defense and that's seemingly his only focus this season - I'm not even making that up, it's literally a quote from him.


The guy scored over 18 ppg in his second year..that's more than just about any C that has come into the NBA in quite a while outside of maybe a couple. Maybe just Towns. He scored more PPG in year 2 than KP or Jokic. Embiid didn't even play.

This is primarily coaching, system, a new PG, a slow downed pace, and emphasizing moving the ball quickly and shooting a lot of 3s. It's the .5 offense which requires him to shoot or pass immediately. Tonight he shot more when he got it early but he got it more in midrange and missed,which happens...everyone was missing shots tonight. I seriously doubt they want to run some low post offense like you are looking for.

I'm not saying coaching hasn't been an issue but the guy himself has said he doesn't care about scoring. When he gets the ball, he defers as soon as he can. The guy has to want it, he has to make himself available and he has to make himself part of the offense.

Also I don't want low post offense. I just want him to try and score when he's right underneath the basket, I'm not asking for the world from a 7ft 250lb big man with impeccable hands and touch around the basket. That's very different to saying feed him the ball and watch him go to work in the low post.


Well I am not sure how many times he got it under the basket tonight but it didn't seem like many, and he dunked it once when he got it. I don't really remember him passing out tonight (but I don't think he got it much down there), but I probably missed a few plays here and there.

Chris Paul came into the season and told them they have to focus on defense. The coaches probably told Ayton they want him primarily he needs to work on defense and the points will come. I didn't mind his answer..it shows he wants to try and anchor the defense and do the little things like being among the league leaders in rebounding and isn't just concerned with scoring...Bridges is the same way...just has a lot more basketball experience with a sky high bbiq.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#405 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:57 am

I've heard EJ say "DA just needs to turn around and dunk it" enough over Ayton's time with the Suns to know this isn't some new issue - just new excuses.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#406 » by Keith_myath » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:58 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Keith_myath wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:This is the hard part, especially when it comes to PnR defense. Few big men are able to contain PnR ball handlers as well as Ayton. Offensively, totally agree.

What we'd lose on the PnR defense, we'd gain in a reduction in opposition offensive rebounds and easy put backs.

Lopez, who has played for nearly every bottom ranked team had 3 offensive rebounds out of his 1st 5. While he may have improved his PnR defense, those sorts of stats against you are inexcusable.

Not sure that's the case. Big part of why we're good defensively for the first time in like 15years is because of Ayton's ability to cover the PnR and recover to disrupt shots in the paint. Our offense works because he works well with Bridges and their combined length covers such a massive area of the court. I don't think we make up what we lose defensively, especially if we get a big who gets played off the court because they don't have a hope to contain the PnR.

Players train with hands on sticks going up in their face. He doesn't apply physical pressure and he doesn't go for blocks. So unless he can add that to his defensive game, his effectiveness will slowly lessen as opposition players get a feel for his length just being length and pretty much what they're up against in training.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#407 » by KLEON » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:04 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Ayton fans would say, it's because he's not getting the ball in scoring positions, he's not being used properly or whatever other excuses there are when he gets the ball an inevitably swings that damn thing right back out to the perimeter.

I just don't get how people don't understand that Ayton doesn't want the ball. He doesn't want the responsibility. He doesn't want to play a big part on offense. It's nothing to do with touches because he gets them. He wants to focus on defense and that's seemingly his only focus this season - I'm not even making that up, it's literally a quote from him.


The guy scored over 18 ppg in his second year..that's more than just about any C that has come into the NBA in quite a while outside of maybe a couple. Maybe just Towns. He scored more PPG in year 2 than KP or Jokic. Embiid didn't even play.

This is primarily coaching, system, a new PG, a slow downed pace, and emphasizing moving the ball quickly and shooting a lot of 3s. It's the .5 offense which requires him to shoot or pass immediately. Tonight he shot more when he got it early but he got it more in midrange and missed,which happens...everyone was missing shots tonight. I seriously doubt they want to run some low post offense like you are looking for.

Dude, you have to STOP making excuses for Ayton. It’s pretty annoying. Ayton is in a perfect situation for him to succeed. He’s surrounded by nothing but snipers, Ayton should be thriving in the paint. His point guard is arguably one of the best point guards ever. He has to be better, period!


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THANK YOU
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#409 » by Keith_myath » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:14 am

Revived wrote:We need Ayton to be effective on the days when our 3s are not falling. Him not being a threat on days where we do hit our 3s like the Pacers game is fine because we don’t need it.

But when our 3s don’t fall, he needs to be the guy that can give us the inside scoring to stay in the game. That’s why we spend a #1 overall pick on him. The few games our 3s don’t fall, those are the days we need him to pick up the slack offensively.

I don’t know if they can justify giving him a $15M/yr contract next summer without him dominating in these easy matchups.

It's very much this.

We ain't going to win **** if we can't have multiple areas to score.

The 3's don't drop as frequently in the playoffs, so you need to allow your teammates to have better looks. One way of doing that is through having a dominant, AGGRESSIVE bigman. The defense will sag and then when he starts kicking it out to wide open shooters, the defense won't know what to do.

So yes, the 3's aren't falling and we'll blame DA because he does 3/5ths of **** all to get his teammates better looks and put the opposition under pressure as an alternative means of regular scoring. You don't have to have the ball to be important.

Some of you need to stop looking at the friggen stats.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#410 » by Sunlight » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:15 am

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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#412 » by Keith_myath » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:18 am

We need Steven A. Smith to give DA the Kwame Brown treatment to see if that gives him a rocket up his ass.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#413 » by Revived » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:19 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Ayton fans would say, it's because he's not getting the ball in scoring positions, he's not being used properly or whatever other excuses there are when he gets the ball an inevitably swings that damn thing right back out to the perimeter.

I just don't get how people don't understand that Ayton doesn't want the ball. He doesn't want the responsibility. He doesn't want to play a big part on offense. It's nothing to do with touches because he gets them. He wants to focus on defense and that's seemingly his only focus this season - I'm not even making that up, it's literally a quote from him.

If Ayton was on another team, we would be taking about how we dodged a bullet because he’s so soft offensively.

And he doesn’t have a good reputation around the league either. Other teams commentators are now daily calling him out for lack of aggressiveness. Our announcers and post game analysts have ripped. His own HC has talked about how out of shape he is.

And here’s a post from the Pacers forum during our game against them

For those that don’t know Ayton is huge but very soft, guy loves to shoot jumpers and refuses to dunk or post up.

https://www.pacersdigest.com/forum/the-digest/indiana-pacers/3545476-game-9-pacers-vs-suns


The book is out on him now. Other teams have figured it out that he hates contact and is far from physical. We’re simply trying hard to make excuses for Ayton at this point. Jumping through loops to try and justify his play. It’s all because he’s our #1 pick but it’s his 3rd season in the league, it’s time he starts justifying the big game that he always talks about.


Good you were able to find a post...when finally looked on another forum. No, I noticed one or two guys in the Pistons game thread said it too...and some say it. But I've always known he wasn't a physical C....doesn't everyone here know that by now? You don't need to convince anyone...it's not him.

But he did have more dunks than most Cs the last couple of years...more than Embiid or Towns the last couple years...talking dunks per game as I pointed out....someone posted a tweet earlier that he has more this year than the top Cs too.

However, I've always said he's more like a LMA or Duncan on offense though...more finesse.

People say the same thing about Towns, Vucevic, Jokic, etc...that they are soft.

I want Ayton to be more assertive man. That’s the thing.

And I know you mentioned the dunks thing before but there’s probably been no Center in the NBA that has had better playmakers than Ayton. Embiid and Jokic have never played with guys like Rubio and CP3 who set up so many easy dunk attempts.

Ayton has probably had more dunk opportunities in the last 2 years than most other Cs in recent history except for maybe Capela when he played with CP3 and Harden.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#414 » by alamin330 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:20 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Sunlight wrote::o

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I said it earlier..and it was the winner of our poll...our whole starting unit has a bad net rtg and we get outscored from the get goin just about every game.

Maybe they should try Cam instead of Crowder.

I know people want to blame Ayton, but last year we had one of the best net rtgs in the league with Rubio/Book/Bridges/KO or Cam/Ayton

It's them meshing. Ayton also scored over 18 ppg last year too and had more dunks per game than guys like Embiid, Towns, etc, so no one seems to be playing well together. Booker is among league leaders in turnovers, though has had a few low or zero turnover games as of late.

His best scoring game though was tonight when the entire team offense was off...I think they are related, but perhaps not, but he had 21 shots and 0 assists. Actually probably more like 26 shots when you count those where he was fouled and went to the line while trying to shoot. That's A LOT of shots with no assists.

Difference between Rubio and Paul is that Rubio setup ALL his teammates not just Booker, Bridges and Cam
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#415 » by Jdiddy701 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:27 am

What really sucks is that I can’t think of a big in the league that makes sense for the Suns if they were to move on from Deandre Ayton (I understand he has zero trade value). Suns really need Ayton to get it together.


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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#416 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:29 am

alamin330 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Sunlight wrote::o

Read on Twitter


I said it earlier..and it was the winner of our poll...our whole starting unit has a bad net rtg and we get outscored from the get goin just about every game.

Maybe they should try Cam instead of Crowder.

I know people want to blame Ayton, but last year we had one of the best net rtgs in the league with Rubio/Book/Bridges/KO or Cam/Ayton

It's them meshing. Ayton also scored over 18 ppg last year too and had more dunks per game than guys like Embiid, Towns, etc, so no one seems to be playing well together. Booker is among league leaders in turnovers, though has had a few low or zero turnover games as of late.

His best scoring game though was tonight when the entire team offense was off...I think they are related, but perhaps not, but he had 21 shots and 0 assists. Actually probably more like 26 shots when you count those where he was fouled and went to the line while trying to shoot. That's A LOT of shots with no assists.

Difference between Rubio and Paul is that Rubio setup ALL his teammates not just Booker, Bridges and Cam

It's crazy if you don't think CP3 is looking for Ayton. I watch CP3's play PnR with Ayton very closely and the only time Ayton is ever free is if CP3 takes it to the basket to draw Ayton's defender off him. Ayton just doesn't make himself available. He rolls weak, his screens are weak and his positioning is weak. The guy doesn't even get himself open to be a lob threat. With how closely players guard CP3, there should be a sea of open space in the paint for Ayton to roll and get an easy bucket but for whatever reason, Ayton is rarely open.

Ayton has made himself into a decoy roll man when we need him to be an actual roll man
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Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#417 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:43 am

Revived wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:If Ayton was on another team, we would be taking about how we dodged a bullet because he’s so soft offensively.

And he doesn’t have a good reputation around the league either. Other teams commentators are now daily calling him out for lack of aggressiveness. Our announcers and post game analysts have ripped. His own HC has talked about how out of shape he is.

And here’s a post from the Pacers forum during our game against them



The book is out on him now. Other teams have figured it out that he hates contact and is far from physical. We’re simply trying hard to make excuses for Ayton at this point. Jumping through loops to try and justify his play. It’s all because he’s our #1 pick but it’s his 3rd season in the league, it’s time he starts justifying the big game that he always talks about.


Good you were able to find a post...when finally looked on another forum. No, I noticed one or two guys in the Pistons game thread said it too...and some say it. But I've always known he wasn't a physical C....doesn't everyone here know that by now? You don't need to convince anyone...it's not him.

But he did have more dunks than most Cs the last couple of years...more than Embiid or Towns the last couple years...talking dunks per game as I pointed out....someone posted a tweet earlier that he has more this year than the top Cs too.

However, I've always said he's more like a LMA or Duncan on offense though...more finesse.

People say the same thing about Towns, Vucevic, Jokic, etc...that they are soft.

I want Ayton to be more assertive man. That’s the thing.

And I know you mentioned the dunks thing before but there’s probably been no Center in the NBA that has had better playmakers than Ayton. Embiid and Jokic have never played with guys like Rubio and CP3 who set up so many easy dunk attempts.

Ayton has probably had more dunk opportunities in the last 2 years than most other Cs in recent history except for maybe Capela when he played with CP3 and Harden.


Ben Simmons pretty good. Rubio yes, did well with Ayton when Ayton had more dunks than the other top Cs but Rubio also played with Towns.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#418 » by Puff » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:12 am

SlovenianDragon wrote:
KLEON wrote:
alamin330 wrote:Everyone still in denial? Ayton doesn’t get the ball. If I was him I wouldn’t be playing hard either. All that running around setting picks and I never get the ball. I think Ayton is already unhappy but team was winning. Now the losing is going to start.

:lol: Every time he gets the ball in the post he passes it back out when he realize that he can't manage the defender. He sets weak screens and I've never seen him demand the ball. He has CP3 who's one of the best PG in the league and you never see him try to run a PnR and PnP, Ayton is a bust, just admit it


hes doing what the coaches tell him to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet Ayton would alrdy be an all-star on another team.

I hope we trade him and he wrecks the league.

We dont deserve Ayton if people think any of these losses are on aytons shoulders.

**** off.



You are amazingly out of your mind. I have no idea why you are supporting Ayton's lady like play. He was the first pick in the draft. Unfortunately that was the NBA draft. The WNBA had a chance to draft him, but passed.
We hired the coach I have wanted for a long time.

Now it is time to turn this mess into a winner.

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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#419 » by collidingNeurons » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:28 am

alamin330 wrote:Everyone wants to blame Ayton for everything. Lol. Ayton isn’t the one missing 4 3s straight and then airballing his next one where he’s wide open. Ayton isn’t the one hitting the backboard on a 3 attempt getting it back by a Jones off rebound and shooting it again and misssing worse with a new shot clock.
Ayton also isn’t Jae crowder down 20 + in the 4th on a fast break shooting a 3 with nothing but no one in rebounding position. Lmao. If you think Ayton is the problem you must just not like him as a human. He’s the last person to blame for this.

i don't blame Him for the poor shooting nor the live by the 3 die by the 3 mentality of this team, that's on the coach and GM, but his lack of hustle and his passive approach on offense is on him, he catches the ball 3 feet from the rim and his first look is to pass it or dribble, never at the rim, he looks scared on offense most of the time and i think he is afraid of getting embarrassed by being blocked or something
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#420 » by SuperSunsFan » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:41 am

not sure if it is karma because we lucked out with Booker, for straight years under MCD we kept drafting the Darko of the respective draft (Bender, Josh Jackson, Ayton) Tonight is the last straw, I don't think I can take it any longer, I might be quitting being an NBA fan altogether for a while. Upsetting that we have nothing to show for the years of tanking the fans had to suffer through, our best players are late lottery mid first round picks that we could have without being the worst team in the league for years, there are multiple all nba players that we passed over (Murray, Fox, Doncic and potentially haliburton) the regret is getting too much to bare honestly.
He is the Aytonator, a sophisticated Basketball-Robot sent through time to destroy the future for one very unlucky franchise - my Phoenix Suns.

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