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Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22, Kerrsed

As a team what should Phoenix improve the most?

Less Turnovers
2
5%
More FT attempts
9
23%
Less ISO hero Booker
4
10%
More physicality
2
5%
Starter unit clicking better
16
40%
Pace (30th in league)
6
15%
Offensive Reb (27th in league)
1
3%
 
Total votes: 40

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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#421 » by Blackification » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:53 am

Why does critiquing Ayton's softness = blaming him for the loss? The loss can be an anomaly because of a bad shooting night no big deal. Ayton's softness has been consistent and demonstrated going into the third year now. It actually looks like it's getting worse and we were probably sold a lemon once he got off those PEDS.

I'll put it like this, if you can't work offensively with CP3 of all people, you don't have it.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#422 » by Revived » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:03 am

Read on Twitter


RiCkY rUbIo SuCkEd aT sEtTiNg Up AyToN fOr DuNkS.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#423 » by PharmD » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:31 am

Revived wrote:
Read on Twitter


RiCkY rUbIo SuCkEd aT sEtTiNg Up AyToN fOr DuNkS.

Jazz fans said the same thing after the 18-19 season (where Rudy Gobert set the single season record for dunks). Gobert spent the 19-20 season pouting about not getting enough touches.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#424 » by sunsbg » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:37 am

7-4 start just like last year. Injuries and the suspension derailed last season, hopefully doesn't happen this season again.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#425 » by Revived » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:56 am

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I’ll give credit to Booker for acknowledging and realizing that the bench is the primary reason for our success this season.

I think CP3 style of playing at a super slow pace doesn’t fit the rest of the team all that well. But unfortunately he’s too old to play at a fast paced level and if he tried it he would probably run out of legs by halftime or possibly injure himself.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#426 » by Revived » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:06 am

grumpysaddle wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:I keep trying to give Ayton a break and he keeps pulling this ****.

MOTHER ****

Imagine if we could swap Ayton for Sabonis? DROOOOOOOOOL

I’d rather swap him with Atlanta for Collins and Okongwu. We get slightly worse defensively but much better offensively and athletically. And I think Collins would improve defensively playing alongside elite defensive wings like Bridges and Crowder.

Imagine having a player this explosive in our starting 5 (he can do a lot more than just dunk btw and is much more skilled offensively than Ayton)

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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#427 » by sunsbg » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:09 am

Ayton is soft, but the league has become so soft that it's no wonder players try to avoid contact. Stop punishing players, who try to play D like in those cheap fouls given to Booker and Bridges on Beal's 3s 1st q.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#428 » by Revived » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:20 am

Our current pace is at 98.3. we are 30th in the league. That wasn't to be expected we were 10th in pace last year with a 103.7. the change is extreamly bad. We lose fastbreak easy buckets and we lose potential FT and we put pressue on defenses when our pace is higher. It was expected we would go to like a 102.5 pace

I think this is where we miss Rubio the most. Despite being 30 yrs old, he would push the pace and put the pressure on defenses in fastbreaks giving us some easy opportunities.

If CP3 isn’t a scoring threat and knocking them down from 3 at a high rate (main diff between him and Rubio) then he isn’t an upgrade from Rubio because Ricky is overall the better passer and floor general for our team due to his ability to push the tempo imo.

Rubio led our team better through the first 11 games last season compared to CP3 this year considering we were starting a 2nd string C last season and still had the same record as we do this season when we have been mostly healthy.

Starter numbers last season with Rubio vs CP3 this season is heavily in Rubio’s favor.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#429 » by sasquatchBob » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:20 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:What really sucks is that I can’t think of a big in the league that makes sense for the Suns if they were to move on from Deandre Ayton (I understand he has zero trade value). Suns really need Ayton to get it together.


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I've been thinking about Valanciunas for a while now. Very solid C that's in his prime right now.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#430 » by Ryu » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:53 am

Revived wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:I keep trying to give Ayton a break and he keeps pulling this ****.

MOTHER ****

Imagine if we could swap Ayton for Sabonis? DROOOOOOOOOL

I’d rather swap him with Atlanta for Collins and Okongwu. We get slightly worse defensively but much better offensively and athletically. And I think Collins would improve defensively playing alongside elite defensive wings like Bridges and Crowder.

Imagine having a player this explosive in our starting 5 (he can do a lot more than just dunk btw and is much more skilled offensively than Ayton)



So you want to swap much better defender and a rim protector for a big who better dunks? Ayton is off form (on offense) at the moment and Collins isn`t that much better than him (on offense).
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#431 » by Bob8 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:54 am

bwgood77 wrote:
KLEON wrote:Laughing at the Ayton lovers who finally realize he's complete trash, bust and a scrub. All of you should apologize to Luka. :lol:
I hope they trade his goofy arse at the trade deadline


Hey Mr. "We should draft Ayton #1!" I wasn't one of the 109 people who wanted him because watching him in college I let everyone know he is a finesse player, likes to pass and looks lost on defense.

I wanted Doncic.

However, Ayton has improved in areas more than I expected him to, despite some of these games like tonight where he played like ass.

KLEON wrote:This would probably never happen but I wish we do draft Ayton with the 1st pick and with Doncic not sure he wants to be in the NBA I hope teams pass on him until the 16 pick and then we draft him.


viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1706063&p=66216887#p66216887

Perhaps YOU should be apologizing to Luka?


To be honest, 75% of Suns board, those who are writing, was for Ayton and many were very aggressive towards anyone, who wanted to explain why Luka will be incredibly good in Nba. The sad story behind all that is, that I believed then and I still believe now Luka would have been better in Suns than in Mavs. Put Luka in this years Suns roster instead of Ayton and change CP3 for decent C, which shouldn’t be too difficult knowing the salary CP3 is getting, and Suns looks as favourite to win the league. Just compare Suns and Mavs roster without Ayton/Luka. It’s like day and night.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#432 » by Revived » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:23 am

Ryu wrote:
Revived wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:Imagine if we could swap Ayton for Sabonis? DROOOOOOOOOL

I’d rather swap him with Atlanta for Collins and Okongwu. We get slightly worse defensively but much better offensively and athletically. And I think Collins would improve defensively playing alongside elite defensive wings like Bridges and Crowder.

Imagine having a player this explosive in our starting 5 (he can do a lot more than just dunk btw and is much more skilled offensively than Ayton)



So you want to swap much better defender and a rim protector for a big who better dunks? Ayton is off form (on offense) at the moment and Collins isn`t that much better than him (on offense).

No I want to swap the better defender for a big that’s improved defensively every season and can create his own shot in the paint, take advantage of mismatches and finish pick and rolls effectively.

To say Collins isn’t that much better than Ayton is ignorant. Collins buckets are spoon fed like Ayton has been by Rubio and CP3. Collins gets unassisted baskets.

The difference between Collins and Ayton offensively is far wider than the difference between the two defensively. Collins has almost Amare type offensive game with better defense than Amare. This is from Collins at the same age as Ayton, when have you ever seen Ayton show anything like this in his 3 yrs in the league?



Like mentioned above, Collins has played with awful defensive players for his whole career. Playing with Bridges and Crowder would help him tremendously on that end.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#433 » by Saberestar » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:39 am

Revived wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:I keep trying to give Ayton a break and he keeps pulling this ****.

MOTHER ****

Imagine if we could swap Ayton for Sabonis? DROOOOOOOOOL

I’d rather swap him with Atlanta for Collins and Okongwu. We get slightly worse defensively but much better offensively and athletically. And I think Collins would improve defensively playing alongside elite defensive wings like Bridges and Crowder.

Imagine having a player this explosive in our starting 5 (he can do a lot more than just dunk btw and is much more skilled offensively than Ayton)

No way they trade Collins AND Okongwu for Ayton.

We have talked before about it, Collins and Ayton probably have about the same value around the league. That is a move that I would certainly consider before the deadline.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#434 » by Saberestar » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:48 am

The problem is that they have Capela and Okongwu at the 5.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#435 » by sunsbg » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:50 am

Bob8 wrote:To be honest, 75% of Suns board, those who are writing, was for Ayton and many were very aggressive towards anyone, who wanted to explain why Luka will be incredibly good in Nba. The sad story behind all that is, that I believed then and I still believe now Luka would have been better in Suns than in Mavs. Put Luka in this years Suns roster instead of Ayton and change CP3 for decent C, which shouldn’t be too difficult knowing the salary CP3 is getting, and Suns looks as favourite to win the league. Just compare Suns and Mavs roster without Ayton/Luka. It’s like day and night.


I explained you on GB if they drafted Doncic they most likely don't pick Mikal as we already had Jackson and Warren as wing players, which is the case with Doncic defensively. His fit with Booker is not good because of a character clash. Both have ball-dominant mentality. In fantasy league they work together well, in real world I doubt it. No way Luka plays better than on the Mavs in a more off-ball role. With Luka on the Suns maybe they do a trade similar to the KP one and our roster looks more like the Mavs one now.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#436 » by Bob8 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:08 pm

sunsbg wrote:
Bob8 wrote:To be honest, 75% of Suns board, those who are writing, was for Ayton and many were very aggressive towards anyone, who wanted to explain why Luka will be incredibly good in Nba. The sad story behind all that is, that I believed then and I still believe now Luka would have been better in Suns than in Mavs. Put Luka in this years Suns roster instead of Ayton and change CP3 for decent C, which shouldn’t be too difficult knowing the salary CP3 is getting, and Suns looks as favourite to win the league. Just compare Suns and Mavs roster without Ayton/Luka. It’s like day and night.


I explained you on GB if they drafted Doncic they most likely don't pick Mikal as we already had Jackson and Warren as wing players, which is the case with Doncic defensively. His fit with Booker is not good because of a character clash. Both have ball-dominant mentality. In fantasy league they work together well, in real world I doubt it. No way Luka plays better than on the Mavs in a more off-ball role. With Luka on the Suns maybe they do a trade similar to the KP one and our roster looks more like the Mavs one now.


Luka played great together with Dragic in more off ball roll and I believe Booker is the best as pure scorer. He would get great looks with Luka in the team and in long run it might help Luka not needing to do everything by himself.

Mavs have worse roster because they had to give up a lot to get Luka/KP, Suns had pick #1 and #16 so they were in much better position than Mavs with #5 and they already had Booker, Mavs had only DSJ, who is out of the league already. Suns were perfectly positioned before 2018, they just selected wrong player.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#437 » by sunsbg » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:14 pm

Bob8 wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
Bob8 wrote:To be honest, 75% of Suns board, those who are writing, was for Ayton and many were very aggressive towards anyone, who wanted to explain why Luka will be incredibly good in Nba. The sad story behind all that is, that I believed then and I still believe now Luka would have been better in Suns than in Mavs. Put Luka in this years Suns roster instead of Ayton and change CP3 for decent C, which shouldn’t be too difficult knowing the salary CP3 is getting, and Suns looks as favourite to win the league. Just compare Suns and Mavs roster without Ayton/Luka. It’s like day and night.


I explained you on GB if they drafted Doncic they most likely don't pick Mikal as we already had Jackson and Warren as wing players, which is the case with Doncic defensively. His fit with Booker is not good because of a character clash. Both have ball-dominant mentality. In fantasy league they work together well, in real world I doubt it. No way Luka plays better than on the Mavs in a more off-ball role. With Luka on the Suns maybe they do a trade similar to the KP one and our roster looks more like the Mavs one now.


Luka played great together with Dragic in more off ball roll and I believe Booker is the best as pure scorer. He would get great looks with Luka in the team and in long run it might help Luka not needing to do everything by himself.

Mavs have worse roster because they had to give up a lot to get Luka/KP, Suns had pick #1 and #16 so they were in much better position than Mavs with #5 and they already had Booker, Mavs had only DSJ, who is out of the league already. Suns were perfectly positioned before 2018, they just selected wrong player.


How Luka played in EU championship and EL doesn't matter. Nobody would let him dominate the ball so much in Europe. He seems pretty happy with his current role.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#438 » by Keith_myath » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:16 pm

Revived wrote:
Ryu wrote:
Revived wrote:I’d rather swap him with Atlanta for Collins and Okongwu. We get slightly worse defensively but much better offensively and athletically. And I think Collins would improve defensively playing alongside elite defensive wings like Bridges and Crowder.

Imagine having a player this explosive in our starting 5 (he can do a lot more than just dunk btw and is much more skilled offensively than Ayton)



So you want to swap much better defender and a rim protector for a big who better dunks? Ayton is off form (on offense) at the moment and Collins isn`t that much better than him (on offense).

No I want to swap the better defender for a big that’s improved defensively every season and can create his own shot in the paint, take advantage of mismatches and finish pick and rolls effectively.

To say Collins isn’t that much better than Ayton is ignorant. Collins buckets are spoon fed like Ayton has been by Rubio and CP3. Collins gets unassisted baskets.

The difference between Collins and Ayton offensively is far wider than the difference between the two defensively. Collins has almost Amare type offensive game with better defense than Amare. This is from Collins at the same age as Ayton, when have you ever seen Ayton show anything like this in his 3 yrs in the league?



Like mentioned above, Collins has played with awful defensive players for his whole career. Playing with Bridges and Crowder would help him tremendously on that end.


The play at the 34 sec mark is the perfect example of the difference between the 2.

Collins gets the dish and jumps forward hard at the basket and powers it home with a powerful dunk.
Ayton would have gone the soft floater from where he received the pass.

A dunk is a much higher percentage shot.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#439 » by Keith_myath » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:20 pm

CP3 has looked disinterested the past week.

It wouldn't surprise me if he's **** there isn't an inside man he can draw and dish to. In other words, he can't play to his strengths with a passive DA, a pick 'n' pop Saric, a useless Jones and an injured Smith. If you replaced Ayton with Collins, I bet CP3 would suddenly looked sparked and be finding Collins every chance he could.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Washington Wizards (2-8) l Monday l 5:00pm l FSNAZ 

Post#440 » by Bob8 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:22 pm

sunsbg wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
I explained you on GB if they drafted Doncic they most likely don't pick Mikal as we already had Jackson and Warren as wing players, which is the case with Doncic defensively. His fit with Booker is not good because of a character clash. Both have ball-dominant mentality. In fantasy league they work together well, in real world I doubt it. No way Luka plays better than on the Mavs in a more off-ball role. With Luka on the Suns maybe they do a trade similar to the KP one and our roster looks more like the Mavs one now.


Luka played great together with Dragic in more off ball roll and I believe Booker is the best as pure scorer. He would get great looks with Luka in the team and in long run it might help Luka not needing to do everything by himself.

Mavs have worse roster because they had to give up a lot to get Luka/KP, Suns had pick #1 and #16 so they were in much better position than Mavs with #5 and they already had Booker, Mavs had only DSJ, who is out of the league already. Suns were perfectly positioned before 2018, they just selected wrong player.


How Luka played in EU championship and EL doesn't matter. Nobody would let him dominate the ball so much in Europe. He seems pretty happy with his current role.


It mattered then, because you had the same coach, who has won gold in Eurobasket with Dragic/Doncic. Do you really believe Luka with 18 years wouldn’t have listened to his coach? Or do you believe Kokoskov would have totally change his philosophy of basketball? Mavs were totally different story, there wasn’t a player like Booker, Luka played half a season with total scrubs, when they trade all starters for injured KP.

I’m 100% sure there wouldn’t be any problems with Luka. I don’t know about Booker, but in worse case scenario, you could trade him and get something valuable in return. I believe they would fit perfectly together. Luka would be a little less ball dominant and Booker would do what he does the best, scoring. You need just surround them wit 3&D players and rim protector and you’re good for a decade.

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