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CP3 vs Rubio

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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#81 » by RunDogGun » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:17 pm

I still really like Rubio, but this trade has worked out well for us so far. The team has played well with CP3 running the point, and I like what Nader has added.
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#82 » by Frank Lee » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:39 pm

..... How in the world can someone watch our team winning against every team and going to the playoffs as a #2 seed and say that we could have had a more complete team with Rubio and someone else in CP3's place? Seriously?.....






Don’t mistake my comments as being against this deal...but Yes, a more complete team, like having an actual starting PF instead of a hybrid tweener who is too Bulky to play SF. Or in having an actual back up C who isn’t a ground based 6’8” PF. A more complete team DOES NOT EVER start scrapheaper Shank Kiminski or even play him outside scrub time.

Dude, we have no legit big man depth. And without Ayton, are basically running a college-like line up chucking threes. We get by on good defense and timely scoring... we’ve been winning, but it’s been down right ugly...a lot. And when Ayton makes an unscheduled departure, it’s a domino effect. We have too many guys playing out of position*. So no, this isn’t a complete team. May be you don’t see it, but it will show up in the playoffs. Hope we see Jones do something about it. This small ball **** won’t cut it in a 7 gamer.

So that’s how I think ... CP > Rubio ... in a vacuum. But we’d been constructed differently with Rubes and would have had more flexibility doing so. we’d still be good and in the mix as there is too much blossoming talent on this squad.





* In fairness, Jones could have addressed these flaws post trade... he tried, but we ended up with Shank, a twice released C, and a bunch of Sg/Sfs, when all he needed to do was sign Nerlans.
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#83 » by Saberestar » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:50 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
..... How in the world can someone watch our team winning against every team and going to the playoffs as a #2 seed and say that we could have had a more complete team with Rubio and someone else in CP3's place? Seriously?.....






Don’t mistake my comments as being against this deal...but Yes, a more complete team, like having an actual starting PF instead of a hybrid tweener who is too Bulky to play SF. Or in having an actual back up C who isn’t a ground based 6’8” PF. A more complete team DOES NOT EVER start scrapheaper Shank Kiminski or even play him outside scrub time.

Dude, we have no legit big man depth. And without Ayton, are basically running a college-like line up chucking threes. We get by on good defense and timely scoring... we’ve been winning, but it’s been down right ugly...a lot. And when Ayton makes an unscheduled departure, it’s a domino effect. We have too many guys playing out of position*. So no, this isn’t a complete team. May be you don’t see it, but it will show up in the playoffs. Hope we see Jones do something about it. This small ball **** won’t cut it in a 7 gamer.

So that’s how I think ... CP > Rubio ... in a vacuum. But we’d been constructed differently with Rubes and would have had more flexibility doing so. we’d still be good and in the mix as there is too much blossoming talent on this squad.





* In fairness, Jones could have addressed these flaws post trade... he tried, but we ended up with Shank, a twice released C, and a bunch of Sg/Sfs, when all he needed to do was sign Nerlans.

Jae Crowder is a PF, and a good one. He spaces the floor, moves the ball and defends really well. He is great boxing out and grabs 5 boards per game. He allows us to switch a lot because he can defend any type of player

In this current NBA, he is your prototypical PF. 6'6, 235 lbs and he is strong and savvy. Not too many PFs are gonna take advantage of him.

Cam Johnson is his backup and then we have Saric, Kaminsky and Jalen Smith to play PF/C. And we can add another veteran big (Aldridge, McGee, Ed Davis...) or a G-League player as a two-way contract. So I think we have a complete roster and I am pretty satisfied with our rotation at every spot.
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#84 » by bwgood77 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:14 am

Saberestar wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:
..... How in the world can someone watch our team winning against every team and going to the playoffs as a #2 seed and say that we could have had a more complete team with Rubio and someone else in CP3's place? Seriously?.....






Don’t mistake my comments as being against this deal...but Yes, a more complete team, like having an actual starting PF instead of a hybrid tweener who is too Bulky to play SF. Or in having an actual back up C who isn’t a ground based 6’8” PF. A more complete team DOES NOT EVER start scrapheaper Shank Kiminski or even play him outside scrub time.

Dude, we have no legit big man depth. And without Ayton, are basically running a college-like line up chucking threes. We get by on good defense and timely scoring... we’ve been winning, but it’s been down right ugly...a lot. And when Ayton makes an unscheduled departure, it’s a domino effect. We have too many guys playing out of position*. So no, this isn’t a complete team. May be you don’t see it, but it will show up in the playoffs. Hope we see Jones do something about it. This small ball **** won’t cut it in a 7 gamer.

So that’s how I think ... CP > Rubio ... in a vacuum. But we’d been constructed differently with Rubes and would have had more flexibility doing so. we’d still be good and in the mix as there is too much blossoming talent on this squad.

* In fairness, Jones could have addressed these flaws post trade... he tried, but we ended up with Shank, a twice released C, and a bunch of Sg/Sfs, when all he needed to do was sign Nerlans.

Jae Crowder is a PF, and a good one. He spaces the floor, moves the ball and defends really well. He is great boxing out and grabs 5 boards per game. He allows us to switch a lot because he can defend any type of player

In this current NBA, he is your prototypical PF. 6'6, 235 lbs and he is strong and savvy. Not too many PFs are gonna take advantage of him.

Cam Johnson is his backup and then we have Saric, Kaminsky and Jalen Smith to play PF/C. And we can add another veteran big (Aldridge, McGee, Ed Davis...) or a G-League player as a two-way contract. So I think we have a complete roster and I am pretty satisfied with our rotation at every spot.


His size is like a more fit Barkley.
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#85 » by Frank Lee » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:50 am

Y’all give Jae a lot of props... a fit Barkley? What are you comparing, pants size? But OK, I’ll concede, he’s a PF mainly because he’s our power forward. He is still 6’6” and a sort of a one and a half trick pony. But if he’s hitting his shots, all is well, I guess.

And come on Sabes.... Saric, as of late, is struggling. He’s getting owned by bigger guys... and man, he’s lost his offensive Mojo because of it. We may be asking too much of him. And to call his replacements (Shank and our anonymous Mr Smith) even adequate is a long far off shot.

When we are hitting on all cylinders, sure we can beat anyone. But get in these grinder games come play off time, we will be outsized. Ayton can’t be our only big.




PS.... in line with the topic at hand....CP is a special player, but Rubio is too. The edge CP has is his ‘edge’. He has a no BS credo of accountability that has been infectious. Little Aplha dog with a big dam bite. Rubes is just too nice to put the fear in his own team mates.
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#86 » by JohnWall2 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:04 am

Frank Lee wrote:Y’all give Jae a lot of props... a fit Barkley? What are you comparing, pants size? But OK, I’ll concede, he’s a PF mainly because he’s our power forward. He is still 6’6” and a sort of a one and a half trick pony. But if he’s hitting his shots, all is well, I guess.

And come on Sabes.... Saric, as of late, is struggling. He’s getting owned by bigger guys... and man, he’s lost his offensive Mojo because of it. We may be asking too much of him. And to call his replacements (Shank and our anonymous Mr Smith) even adequate is a long far off shot.

When we are hitting on all cylinders, sure we can beat anyone. But get in these grinder games come play off time, we will be outsized. Ayton can’t be our only big.




PS.... in line with the topic at hand....CP is a special player, but Rubio is too. The edge CP has is his ‘edge’. He has a no BS credo of accountability that has been infectious. Little Aplha dog with a big dam bite. Rubes is just too nice to put the fear in his own team mates.
You think that's CP3s only edge over Rubio? Damn.....you can make the arguement that there's not a single thing Rubio does better. I mean something like mid range shooting you are comparing the GOAT PG to someone well below average.
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#87 » by Saberestar » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:28 am

Frank Lee wrote:
PS.... in line with the topic at hand....CP is a special player, but Rubio is too. The edge CP has is his ‘edge’. He has a no BS credo of accountability that has been infectious. Little Aplha dog with a big dam bite. Rubes is just too nice to put the fear in his own team mates.

Do you imagine CP3 having a game like the one that Rubio had last night?
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#88 » by bwgood77 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:16 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Y’all give Jae a lot of props... a fit Barkley? What are you comparing, pants size? But OK, I’ll concede, he’s a PF mainly because he’s our power forward. He is still 6’6” and a sort of a one and a half trick pony. But if he’s hitting his shots, all is well, I guess.

And come on Sabes.... Saric, as of late, is struggling. He’s getting owned by bigger guys... and man, he’s lost his offensive Mojo because of it. We may be asking too much of him. And to call his replacements (Shank and our anonymous Mr Smith) even adequate is a long far off shot.

When we are hitting on all cylinders, sure we can beat anyone. But get in these grinder games come play off time, we will be outsized. Ayton can’t be our only big.

PS.... in line with the topic at hand....CP is a special player, but Rubio is too. The edge CP has is his ‘edge’. He has a no BS credo of accountability that has been infectious. Little Aplha dog with a big dam bite. Rubes is just too nice to put the fear in his own team mates.


Re Barkley...I just meant size in saying that different sizes can play PF, especially these days, though I think Barkley had those long arms and that strong butt to hit guys with before jumping for rebounds. Surprised more people haven't adopted the butt bump before jumping for the rebound.

Saric too slow against most teams at PF. He is good or fairly good at guarding guys inside though despite not being able to jump more than about 2 inches. Jalen Smith seems more equipped once he gets a training camp and some playing time.

I would be happy signing Rubio if Paul bolts to LA or something after next year..to be near family and if we get knocked out in first or second round next two years or injuries derail us.

There is a pretty strong likelihood that Rubio at 32 will be as good or better than Paul at 37, with a better chance at staying healthy.
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#89 » by Frank Lee » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:04 pm

Player comparisons are seldom this guy vs that guy. Replacing Rubio with CP altered our course. Each path would require different acquisitions to compliment and different abilities to do so. Do you think Crowder would have come here with Rubio?
Perhaps we would have went the CWood route...? Or gladly scooped up Halliburton.

Fun to talk about... but that’s about it.
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#90 » by wheezy » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:08 pm

Frank Lee wrote:Player comparisons are seldom this guy vs that guy. Replacing Rubio with CP altered our course. Each path would require different acquisitions to compliment and different abilities to do so. Do you think Crowder would have come here with Rubio?
Perhaps we would have went the CWood route...? Or gladly scooped up Halliburton.

Fun to talk about... but that’s about it.

A little revisionist history definitely comes with being a Suns fan, with the coin toss being the original sin.
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#91 » by Frank Lee » Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:03 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Spoiler:
Frank Lee wrote:
PS.... in line with the topic at hand....CP is a special player, but Rubio is too. The edge CP has is his ‘edge’. He has a no BS credo of accountability that has been infectious. Little Aplha dog with a big dam bite. Rubes is just too nice to put the fear in his own team mates.

Do you imagine CP3 having a game like the one that Rubio had last night?


Now I can, after yesterday’s huevo
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#92 » by Revived » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:17 pm

bwgood77 wrote:I would be happy signing Rubio if Paul bolts to LA or something after next year..to be near family and if we get knocked out in first or second round next two years or injuries derail us.

There is a pretty strong likelihood that Rubio at 32 will be as good or better than Paul at 37, with a better chance at staying healthy.

I’ve thought about this as well and hope it happens if Paul leaves or retires.
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#93 » by JohnWall2 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:50 pm

I think you guys forget how slowly the all time great guys decline compared to normal NBA players, especially those with a high IQ. Rubio doesn't really have the skill set to age gracefully. I will take CP3 at 37 over Rubio at 32.
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#94 » by Saberestar » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:13 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Spoiler:
Frank Lee wrote:
PS.... in line with the topic at hand....CP is a special player, but Rubio is too. The edge CP has is his ‘edge’. He has a no BS credo of accountability that has been infectious. Little Aplha dog with a big dam bite. Rubes is just too nice to put the fear in his own team mates.

Do you imagine CP3 having a game like the one that Rubio had last night?


Now I can, after yesterday’s huevo

Not even close. CP3 didn't play well for his standards against the Hornets, but at least he created some FTs at the end of the game and he scored 16 points. And he played very good defense.

I think you don't understand how bad Rubio is playing lately. Some stats from his last three games:

3 points, 7 assists, 1/7 shooting in 31 minutes.
2 points, 8 assists, 0/7 shooting in 27 minutes.
4 points, 10 assists, 1/5 shooting in 27 minutes.

The most important thing to me is that James Jones did the right decision here and if you think about it he NAILED every move in the offseason. Every trade or signing has been successful for us. And the players that we lost (Rubio, Oubre and Baynes) have played bad for their new teams, so he envisioned that happening in some sort of way.
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#95 » by Woodsanity » Thu Apr 1, 2021 6:05 pm

I am surprised so many people were this low on CP3. CP3 already showed he was far from done on the Thunder. It always takes time to acclimate to new teams, so worse numbers initially is to be expected.

I do not think there is really any combo of Rubio + another solid role player that would be better than having CP3. Rubio is a nice playmaking PG who can play decent defense but CP3 does virtually everything better, he's a far far far better scorer/shooter and even better defensively as well.

As far as I can see the Suns don't really need to trade for any other players at this point, their path to improvement is going to largely be based on players like Ayton, Bridges and Booker improving since they are still young players with further upside. Ayton especially needs to do more he is very inconsistent.
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Re: CP3 vs Rubio 

Post#96 » by oddity » Thu Apr 1, 2021 7:29 pm

I feel like this thread still even existing is pretty disrespectful at this point. I will always remember Rubio fondly but come on.
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