Game 17: Golden State Warriors (10-8) @ Phoenix Suns (8-8), Jan 28, Thursday, 8:00 PM

[Saberestar]

Great win.

Not much difference between the GSW and the Thunder, they are basically the same in the standings so far this season. The league is really balanced now, not too many super teams or tanking teams. I take winning to the GSW and losing to the Thunder in a back-to-back.

Kaminsky was huge in the fourth quarter.

I liked what I saw from Galloway, he needs to be in the rotation every game.

CP3 played very well in the first half and it was great to rest him for much of the fourth quarter.

Ayton played a solid game tonight. Not his best game but good enough.
He is a tremendous rebounder and he could lead the league in that category in the next future. He created havoc in the paint and opened the floor for Bridges/Cam/Crowder.

So a much needed win and we are again a playoff team. We are on the right track, hopefully we have the full roster available against the Mavs.

[Keith_myath]

I said early in the 3rd that Curry's scoring wasn't hurting us. I was right.

It was our stopping of their other players from scoring, with only 2 other players scoring double digits. They have plenty of role players and scrubs, so when Curry doesn't score 50 and Wiggins doesn't score 20, you just need to stop the easy baskets to the role players who can't step up when the above 2 names aren't cashing big scores.

[Saberestar]

BTW... Oubre played a TERRIBLE game. I mean...he was a big negative on both ends for the GSW and he did mistake after mistake out there.

I wasn't a big fan of him and I think that he needs to be at most a 6th man on winning teams, but I am not even sure about that now.
Good intensity but his basketball IQ is really low.

I didn't like Wiseman neither.

[King4Day]

I know Wiseman wasn't great overall but how much of that was Ayton? I know they didn't matchup too much.

[King4Day]

The big thing to look at is, we lost maybe 5 or 6 games in the final minute. Which means we were in the game up until that final minute (or OT). That means we're competitive. Had we won half of those games, we'd be talked about by the media.
We really need to get healthy and pickup more of these close games.

I would be happy with a split against Dallas

[Frank Lee]

I don’t get it ... Ayton a ‘tremendous rebounder’ ?.. tremendous rebounders go after every ball like it’s their own. This guy is Mr 70%. He will never be tremendous at anything till somehow he starts playing with intensity. Next game watch how many contested rebounds he fights for. Key word there is ‘fight’ Heck, the prior game he was drifting back on D with the launching of any jump shot. I’m sure he heard about it in the film room. Nope, sorry, this unschooled, fundamental-less softy will get his 10 boards a night...but they won’t be by taking the ball away from someone else who really wants it.

[bwoolf2]

I don’t get it ... Ayton a ‘tremendous rebounder’ ?.. tremendous rebounders go after every ball like it’s their own. This guy is Mr 70%. He will never be tremendous at anything till somehow he starts playing with intensity. Next game watch how many contested rebounds he fights for. Key word there is ‘fight’ Heck, the prior game he was drifting back on D with the launching of any jump shot. I’m sure he heard about it in the film room. Nope, sorry, this unschooled, fundamental-less softy will get his 10 boards a night...but they won’t be by taking the ball away from someone else who really wants it.

I agree with almost everything you said yet he is 5th in the league in rebounds and probably moves to top 3 by any measure that makes him a tremendous rebounder, could he lead the league yes does he get them the way you want him to no, but that does not make him being a great rebounder any different.

[Saberestar]

I don’t get it ... Ayton a ‘tremendous rebounder’ ?.. tremendous rebounders go after every ball like it’s their own. This guy is Mr 70%. He will never be tremendous at anything till somehow he starts playing with intensity. Next game watch how many contested rebounds he fights for. Key word there is ‘fight’ Heck, the prior game he was drifting back on D with the launching of any jump shot. I’m sure he heard about it in the film room. Nope, sorry, this unschooled, fundamental-less softy will get his 10 boards a night...but they won’t be by taking the ball away from someone else who really wants it.

I disagree.

Yeah, he is not exactly a high motor guy or a "fighter" in the paint but he is so physically gifted that he is a tremendous rebounder even with his average motor/intensity. He could be better? Probably, but in that case he would be already the best rebounder in the entire league.

He gets a lot of disputed boards, obviously he loses some of them here or there, but he gets a good amount of contested rebounds per game. He does a pretty good job tipping the ball to himself in traffic and he gets a lot offensive boards avoiding fouls for going over the back of the opponent.

He does a good job boxing out, not the best out there doing it, but for him usually is enough to put an arm between him and his adversary.

It's true that he gets a good amount of uncontested boards too, but which C doesn't? Every C/PF gets easy boards too just because they are close to the rim, so there is not advantage for him in that regard.

I am not a big stats guy, but I am pretty sure that there are advanced stats about all of that. I would love to watch the numbers.

Do you remember how easily JaMychal Green got two offensive boards against Jalen Smith. He couldn't get it in front of Ayton. No way.

[Frank Lee]

Isnt that the definition of a stat padder (to Bwolfs comments) ? Good numbers, low impact. And it’s time to quit with the ‘he could’ BS ...

let’s be honest... this dude excels at what comes easy for him. He’s no baller

[Adrao]

Everyone played well, except Ayton.

I'm not going to defend Ayton but pointing at other players like Moore and Nader. Moore 1 of 6 and Nader 6 of 15 played bad.

[Iceman36]

Maybe we need a good luck charm...those were missing last time and it was our worst game.

Thank you Emily...we went from our worst game to arguably our best, all without Booker, Saric and Payne.

Good job, man! Keep it going.

[DroughtsOverPHX]

Isnt that the definition of a stat padder (to Bwolfs comments) ? Good numbers, low impact. And it’s time to quit with the ‘he could’ BS ...

let’s be honest... this dude excels at what comes easy for him. He’s no baller

Saying an 18/12 machine is not a baller is strange but I understand that thought because we need him to be more than that. He is capable of 30/20 games multiple times during a season. I'm not saying if we don't get that he is a bust but I wish he played with the fire of even Damian Jones. He's worth the risk of hanging on to just in hopes he will develop fire, aggressive play and want the freakin ball. Or we still have us a nice 18/12 machine.

[DroughtsOverPHX]

I felt bad for Oubre. For one thing his schtick really needs a full arena. The blowing kisses, head bobbing, that neck thing doesn't have a spot now. I liked him here, his energy and the valley boyz stuff and wanted him to stay. His limitations now seem a little more clear. Bummer for him.

[bwgood77]

I don’t get it ... Ayton a ‘tremendous rebounder’ ?.. tremendous rebounders go after every ball like it’s their own. This guy is Mr 70%. He will never be tremendous at anything till somehow he starts playing with intensity. Next game watch how many contested rebounds he fights for. Key word there is ‘fight’ Heck, the prior game he was drifting back on D with the launching of any jump shot. I’m sure he heard about it in the film room. Nope, sorry, this unschooled, fundamental-less softy will get his 10 boards a night...but they won’t be by taking the ball away from someone else who really wants it.

Well,4th in the NBA in rpg, so there are 3 guys more tremendous. He was great fighting for balls in this one though. Even better than usual. https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_per_game.html#per_game_stats::trb_per_g

[bwgood77]

I don’t get it ... Ayton a ‘tremendous rebounder’ ?.. tremendous rebounders go after every ball like it’s their own. This guy is Mr 70%. He will never be tremendous at anything till somehow he starts playing with intensity. Next game watch how many contested rebounds he fights for. Key word there is ‘fight’ Heck, the prior game he was drifting back on D with the launching of any jump shot. I’m sure he heard about it in the film room. Nope, sorry, this unschooled, fundamental-less softy will get his 10 boards a night...but they won’t be by taking the ball away from someone else who really wants it.

I disagree.

Yeah, he is not exactly a high motor guy or a "fighter" in the paint but he is so physically gifted that he is a tremendous rebounder even with his average motor/intensity. He could be better? Probably, but in that case he would be already the best rebounder in the entire league.

He gets a lot of disputed boards, obviously he loses some of them here or there, but he gets a good amount of contested rebounds per game. He does a pretty good job tipping the ball to himself in traffic and he gets a lot offensive boards avoiding fouls for going over the back of the opponent.

He does a good job boxing out, not the best out there doing it, but for him usually is enough to put an arm between him and his adversary.

It's true that he gets a good amount of uncontested boards too, but which C doesn't? Every C/PF gets easy boards too just because they are close to the rim, so there is not advantage for him in that regard.

I am not a big stats guy, but I am pretty sure that there are advanced stats about all of that. I would love to watch the numbers.

Do you remember how easily JaMychal Green got two offensive boards against Jalen Smith. He couldn't get it in front of Ayton. No way.

Every C or player will have great games at things and not so great games at things. The expectations for Ayton sometimes are Frank-ly absurd. Sure you have a guy here and there with eye popping stats like Capela lately but it's rare to see a guy just dominate night in and night out at something. His last 6 games he was 16-17-13-13-14-13...most of those games were over 30 minutes but last night it was 13 in 23 minutes. Even going back 4 games before those last 6 he only had one lower game with 6...the 3 before that he was 16-13-14

[Jdiddy701]

Everyone played well, except Ayton.

I'm not going to defend Ayton but pointing at other players like Moore and Nader. Moore 1 of 6 and Nader 6 of 15 played bad.

Nader is the only player we have that attacks the rim, while the rest of the players continue to jack up 3’s. He’s definitely not a perfect player and makes some questionable plays but I can live with that. Suns need more players to do what he does and I think that’s why Monty plays him.

I’m really not expecting Moore to do much. I guess I could have called him out too because dude does not look mobile at all. We desperately need Payne back.

Ayton looked timid out there.. setting weak screens, just going through the motions. Like a few have said, his rebounding comes to him so easy. He very rarely goes out his way to get a rebound. He had 5 points vs OKC, I guess I gotta be happy when he gets over 10 points nowadays. I need to see more out of him. He needs to be held to high standard at all times, period! Just disappointed with his body language honestly. Chris Paul had to tell him multiple times to play harder yesterday. That should not be happening every game.


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[bwoolf2]

Isnt that the definition of a stat padder (to Bwolfs comments) ? Good numbers, low impact. And it’s time to quit with the ‘he could’ BS ...

let’s be honest... this dude excels at what comes easy for him. He’s no baller

Agree he is no baller but at 22 not giving up on that quite yet, although I admit I have at times.

Stat padder I disagree on the defensive end and rebounding he absolutely has an impact. On the offensive end most nights he is a minus but he has had some impactful games there as well. No where near where he should be.

[Saberestar]

I don’t get it ... Ayton a ‘tremendous rebounder’ ?.. tremendous rebounders go after every ball like it’s their own. This guy is Mr 70%. He will never be tremendous at anything till somehow he starts playing with intensity. Next game watch how many contested rebounds he fights for. Key word there is ‘fight’ Heck, the prior game he was drifting back on D with the launching of any jump shot. I’m sure he heard about it in the film room. Nope, sorry, this unschooled, fundamental-less softy will get his 10 boards a night...but they won’t be by taking the ball away from someone else who really wants it.

Well,4th in the NBA in rpg, so there are 3 guys more tremendous. He was great fighting for balls in this one though. Even better than usual. https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_per_game.html#per_game_stats::trb_per_g

Yeah, I think that everyone here would agree about considering the other players in the Top 5 (Sabonis, Drummond, Capela and Gobert) big-time rebounders so I think that Ayton deserves the same consideration.

[darealjuice]

Ayton's rebounding is like the majority of his game, solid but has clear room for improvement if he'd play with physicality.

Honestly he just has a ways to go as far as learning to do the little things playing basketball. Stuff like setting actual screens and quickly opening up to the ball handler instead of turning over his shoulder to roll, sealing and holding his man at good angles in the post while still meeting the ball, consistently boxing out instead of trying to out jump everyone, not getting caught in no man's land on help defense. Hell he's just starting to attack off the dribble on face-ups as of like last week.

I still think there's reason to be optimistic about this team as frustrating as the last few games have been. It's clear things haven't clicked for CP3 and Book yet, but you have to think they'll figure it out eventually. We should finally have everyone back and healthy fairly soon. If we can find a better balance between chucking 3s and getting the ball in the paint, we'll be a good team.

[Keith_myath]

Isnt that the definition of a stat padder (to Bwolfs comments) ? Good numbers, low impact. And it’s time to quit with the ‘he could’ BS ...

let’s be honest... this dude excels at what comes easy for him. He’s no baller

Booker is a stat padder.

FWIW a stat padder is also someone who cares more about their own stats than the team.

DA gets 10+ rebounds a game because his reach is higher than most. Defensive rebounds are a nothing stat too. Most players don't compete for them and they don't result in anything towards the score. Offensive rebounds are what matter. DA is 9th in total for this, 11th in offensive rebound percentage and 7th in ORPG. His drop is considerably high between his offensive rebound stats and his defensive rebound stats when compared with other top rebounders in the league. Please don't quote straight rebound stats; they mean nothing. Quote his offensive rebound stats.

DA is one of 5 C's for defensive win shares who are all ranked 7th. There are also 3 C's ranked higher.

So his D is good, but his offensive is weak... if you judge by his stats because quite a lot of you judge by stats. If you judge by how he applies himself, you'll notice there isn't a stat for passiveness or attack prowess.