Torrey Craig discussion, news and highlights

Saberestar · Post #21 » by **Saberestar** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:01 pm

Saberestar · Post #22 » by **Saberestar** » Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:21 pm

Welcome back.

First game coming back and he scores 14 points with 4 assists added to his usual very good defense. NOICE.

El Hespiritu · Post #23 » by **El Hespiritu** » Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:50 pm

I had some Spanish debate about how meaningful Craig (+Holiday) additions are.

I said Torrey made Suns visibly stronger and he would likely lock some (modest) rotational spot at PO.
Ohters said Craig's arrival was nothing to write home about and even probably he'd be but garbage time at PO.

Time will tell.

TheLoon · Post #24 » by **TheLoon** » Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:02 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:

Read on Twitter

$110K, so not too much for an owner.

Lol it's not coming out of his checking account

Ghost of Kleine · Post #25 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:37 pm

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1492730779998167043%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fphoenix-suns

RunDogGun · Post #26 » by **RunDogGun** » Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:45 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:

Read on Twitter
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1492730779998167043%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fphoenix-suns

I love having him back. Did the front office also have him do work around the arena? What is up with those safety goggles? :lol:

Post #27 » by **lilfishi22** » Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:08 pm

Homie looking like the Head of the FBI

Watch on YouTube

Post #28 » by **Qwigglez** » Sun Mar 13, 2022 1:35 am

I just wanted to say Craig is completely unplayable this year. Last year Craig was fine because he was utilized differently, more of his shots came in the paint, but this year we are using him as more of a catch and shoot player and that isn't his game. The difference being last year we used Craig in lineups that we had a versatile 5 in Saric, which allowed the paint to be open for Craig. This year, not so much because we have Mcgee and Bismack who operate on the inside.

Looking at the numbers last year Craig shot 33% of his shots from 0-3 feet and 47% attempts from 3. This year he is shooting only 11% of his shots from 0-3 feet, and 64% attempts from 3. He's not useable unless we have Saric or maybe even Frank back, or maybe if we just have Craig as center, but the Suns will get exploited for rebounds.

So far this season in 12 games for the Suns, Craig has shot 40 3's and has only hit 7 of them (17.5%). While I don't think it was necessarily a wrong decision to trade Jalen Smith for Craig, since I believe Craig will be used in the playoffs for defensive purposes. I think offensively he'll be a net negative and because of that, he probably shouldn't play unless it's an emergency situation.

Post #29 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Mar 13, 2022 2:44 am

Qwigglez wrote:I just wanted to say Craig is completely unplayable this year. Last year Craig was fine because he was utilized differently, more of his shots came in the paint, but this year we are using him as more of a catch and shoot player and that isn't his game. The difference being last year we used Craig in lineups that we had a versatile 5 in Saric, which allowed the paint to be open for Craig. This year, not so much because we have Mcgee and Bismack who operate on the inside.

Looking at the numbers last year Craig shot 33% of his shots from 0-3 feet and 47% attempts from 3. This year he is shooting only 11% of his shots from 0-3 feet, and 64% attempts from 3. He's not useable unless we have Saric or maybe even Frank back, or maybe if we just have Craig as center, but the Suns will get exploited for rebounds.

So far this season in 12 games for the Suns, Craig has shot 40 3's and has only hit 7 of them (17.5%). While I don't think it was necessarily a wrong decision to trade Jalen Smith for Craig, since I believe Craig will be used in the playoffs for defensive purposes. I think offensively he'll be a net negative and because of that, he probably shouldn't play unless it's an emergency situation.

Yeah, I felt he was completely overrated by Suns fans in general after a pretty nice short stint last year. People were saying you get 80% of Bridges at a fraction of the cost and stuff like that.

Saberestar · Post #30 » by **Saberestar** » Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:47 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:I just wanted to say Craig is completely unplayable this year. Last year Craig was fine because he was utilized differently, more of his shots came in the paint, but this year we are using him as more of a catch and shoot player and that isn't his game. The difference being last year we used Craig in lineups that we had a versatile 5 in Saric, which allowed the paint to be open for Craig. This year, not so much because we have Mcgee and Bismack who operate on the inside.

Looking at the numbers last year Craig shot 33% of his shots from 0-3 feet and 47% attempts from 3. This year he is shooting only 11% of his shots from 0-3 feet, and 64% attempts from 3. He's not useable unless we have Saric or maybe even Frank back, or maybe if we just have Craig as center, but the Suns will get exploited for rebounds.

So far this season in 12 games for the Suns, Craig has shot 40 3's and has only hit 7 of them (17.5%). While I don't think it was necessarily a wrong decision to trade Jalen Smith for Craig, since I believe Craig will be used in the playoffs for defensive purposes. I think offensively he'll be a net negative and because of that, he probably shouldn't play unless it's an emergency situation.

Yeah, I felt he was completely overrated by Suns fans in general after a pretty nice short stint last year. People were saying you get 80% of Bridges at a fraction of the cost and stuff like that.

I agree that he was overrated by some fans BUT I think he can be yet useful for us in the playoffs.

He is not a good shooter but he isn't as bad as he looks now neither. At some point he will score from three again, at least with 30% percentages.

Post #31 » by **Qwigglez** » Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:02 am

Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be useful in the playoffs, but I wouldn't say he should be part of the immediate regular rotation in the playoffs.

My bet is he'll probably get minutes in the first round, along with Shamet, but if both of those guys continue to struggle shooting, then they probably get very rare minutes in the 2nd round, if the Suns make it that far.

RunDogGun · Post #32 » by **RunDogGun** » Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:35 pm

Qwigglez wrote:I just wanted to say Craig is completely unplayable this year. Last year Craig was fine because he was utilized differently, more of his shots came in the paint, but this year we are using him as more of a catch and shoot player and that isn't his game. The difference being last year we used Craig in lineups that we had a versatile 5 in Saric, which allowed the paint to be open for Craig. This year, not so much because we have Mcgee and Bismack who operate on the inside.

Looking at the numbers last year Craig shot 33% of his shots from 0-3 feet and 47% attempts from 3. This year he is shooting only 11% of his shots from 0-3 feet, and 64% attempts from 3. He's not useable unless we have Saric or maybe even Frank back, or maybe if we just have Craig as center, but the Suns will get exploited for rebounds.

So far this season in 12 games for the Suns, Craig has shot 40 3's and has only hit 7 of them (17.5%). While I don't think it was necessarily a wrong decision to trade Jalen Smith for Craig, since I believe Craig will be used in the playoffs for defensive purposes. I think offensively he'll be a net negative and because of that, he probably shouldn't play unless it's an emergency situation.

But doesn't that mean we have to do a better job of off ball movement? I think our offense is too set around Booker and CP3, that we just aren't using our guys to their strengths, but instead trying to make them fit our 4 out 1 in game. We probably need to start setting more back screens, and back door cuts, so guys like Craig have a role offensively as well as defensively. Honestly, just having guys who may not shoot well, doing more back door cuts and screens opens up roles for guys like Elf, who pass well to those back door cuts, and can beat their man off the dribble.

Last year, I felt Craig did more hustle plays than he is doing this season, and thinking back, he took more free throw extended to the top of the key threes, and this year it seems like he is taking more corner threes. I will have to look that up to see if my memory is correct or not. Craig wasn't someone I was really focusing on.

Overall, if we can't use him well on offense, he will be strictly a defensive stopper. Unidimensional players are tougher to play in the playoffs.

Post #33 » by **lilfishi22** » Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:55 pm

The fact is that he's not as needed as he was last season because our front court depth is solid this season and his best/most productive position is when he plays in the front court. Being closer to the basket, crashing boards, creating hustle plays is where his strengths lie because at the end of it, he's really just a good energy, hustle guy who is somewhat limited skill-wise. You take him away from what he's good at and just make him stand outside to shoot 3's or have to drive the ball to the basket and the results are what we're seeing.

It sucks that he just isn't as important as he was last season but that's not necessarily a bad thing because it shows we addressed our front court depth issue with a more permanent solution whereas last season he was the band aid solution.

RunDogGun · Post #34 » by **RunDogGun** » Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:59 pm

He was used as a four a lot for us last year as he is now. We have been using Johnson more at the three, even before we got Craig back, so while we have addressed the center position better this year, we haven't changed much at the four.

But I agree, just having guys stand around the three waiting for a pass is not good for certain players. Right now, Craig is one of those guys. The strange thing is he was shooting like 37% from three last year, and now his shot looks pretty terrible.

Post #35 » by **lilfishi22** » Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:13 pm

Last season he played half his minutes in the front court. This season, only 30% of his minutes are at the 4 this season with us. 64% at the 3 and the remaining 6% at the 2. So that's 70% of his minutes at the wings and that's reflected in him shooting a career high 63.5% of his shots from distance while also shooting a career low 17.5% 3P%. A below average shooter of his caliber should not be taking more than 50% of his shots from 3. But that's the reality of positioning him on the wings where he can't really do much offensively other than jack up shots when the ball goes to him. He's being used more as an outlet for pass more and if he doesn't shoot the ball, that also hurts our offense because he would then effectively reset our possession with not much time left. He doesn't really have much choice but to shoot the ball

suns12345 · Post #36 » by **suns12345** » Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:46 pm

I wouldn't worry too much. He hasn't played many games with a healthy suns roster (CP3, Book, CamJ). And besides, if it transpires that we don't really need him, it's a good thing IMO - means our team is better than it was.

Honestly the ideal playoff rotation for us is shamet/Holiday backing up the guards, CamJ backing up the wings, Mcgee/Biz backing up the bigs.

Play your best 8 guys in the big games and hope for the best.

Post #37 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:30 pm

suns12345 wrote:I wouldn't worry too much. He hasn't played many games with a healthy suns roster (CP3, Book, CamJ). And besides, if it transpires that we don't really need him, it's a good thing IMO - means our team is better than it was.

Honestly the ideal playoff rotation for us is shamet/Holiday backing up the guards, CamJ backing up the wings, Mcgee/Biz backing up the bigs.

Play your best 8 guys in the big games and hope for the best.

It's nice to have the depth and also that we don't need him. My only concern is the extra salary that adds up for next year with his $6 million, Shamet's, Saric's, etc...guys that are borderline rotation players. I just hope all or most of this salary can be moved or stretched so it doesn't play into any big important roster decisions.

RunDogGun · Post #38 » by **RunDogGun** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:00 am

suns12345 wrote:I wouldn't worry too much. He hasn't played many games with a healthy suns roster (CP3, Book, CamJ). And besides, if it transpires that we don't really need him, it's a good thing IMO - means our team is better than it was.

Honestly the ideal playoff rotation for us is shamet/Holiday backing up the guards, CamJ backing up the wings, Mcgee/Biz backing up the bigs.

Play your best 8 guys in the big games and hope for the best.

Well, not the ideal, but probably what Monty will go with. :wink:

Post #39 » by **Qwigglez** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:24 am

RunDogGun wrote:
suns12345 wrote:I wouldn't worry too much. He hasn't played many games with a healthy suns roster (CP3, Book, CamJ). And besides, if it transpires that we don't really need him, it's a good thing IMO - means our team is better than it was.

Honestly the ideal playoff rotation for us is shamet/Holiday backing up the guards, CamJ backing up the wings, Mcgee/Biz backing up the bigs.

Play your best 8 guys in the big games and hope for the best.

Well, not the ideal, but probably what Monty will go with.

I think he meant Payne & Holiday :lol:

And I'm not worried at all, I just wanted to point out why Craig has looked so bad with us so far.

RunDogGun · Post #40 » by **RunDogGun** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:39 am

Qwigglez wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
suns12345 wrote:I wouldn't worry too much. He hasn't played many games with a healthy suns roster (CP3, Book, CamJ). And besides, if it transpires that we don't really need him, it's a good thing IMO - means our team is better than it was.

Honestly the ideal playoff rotation for us is shamet/Holiday backing up the guards, CamJ backing up the wings, Mcgee/Biz backing up the bigs.

Play your best 8 guys in the big games and hope for the best.

Well, not the ideal, but probably what Monty will go with.

I think he meant Payne & Holiday

And I'm not worried at all, I just wanted to point out why Craig has looked so bad with us so far.

Hopefully tonight helped his confidence. You could tell he was very reluctant to shoot, which means he is in his own head. Then he started to go to the basket more. Good hustle tonight from him, and went 5-8. I hope we can get some more blowout games where he can get minutes. I still think we will need him come playoffs, for defense, but he has to start knocking down shots.

Side note, that wasn't the "ideal" I was referring to, but yeah, Payne and Holiday should be the only two guards getting minutes in the playoffs outside of of our starters. And I could see Bridges getting a fair amount of two guard minutes, since Bridges, CamJo, and Crowder together have been a solid three man unit.