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2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

Moderators: bwgood77, Kerrsed, Qwigglez, lilfishi22

How many games do we win out of our next 15 through Christmas? See post #1029 for schedule

11
5
20%
10
6
24%
9
3
12%
8
1
4%
7
0
No votes
More than 11
10
40%
Fewer than 7
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 25

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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1021 » by lilfishi22 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:42 pm

bigfoot wrote:Last night was just another example of why Ayton isn't a max player. In the 1st quarter, he grabbed a rebound and gave it to CP3. All the other players are sprinting down the court on offense and CP3 turns and yells at Ayton to run. He has to be reminded to do the proper things in the game.

Deandre was really non-existent on offense for most of the game. His rolls were off and his hands were bad. Most of CP3's turnovers were poor attempts at catches by Ayton. Honestly, McGee is a much better offensive option than Ayton in the PNR. McGee is crazy athletic and long and knows how to dribble the ball well through traffic and adjust his body on pick and rolls.

It's hard to tell if it is a lack of offensive BBIQ or the desire to work hard. Probably a combo of both. Right now he is a lesser version of Rudy Gobert when comparing their first four years. Rudy didn't get a max until his 9th season.

I listened to the Timeline podcast a couple of days ago and they talked about Ayton vs Frank/McGee, in particular when it comes to hand offs at the top of the key. They mentioned that the guys or the coaching staff don't trust Ayton as much as they do Frank/McGee when they run sets that involve the bigs making decisions after a hand off by a guard. With Frank and McGee, they make the right reads and Frank especially kind of has a poor man's triple threat whereas Ayton really doesn't have much options out there. He's not really a 3PT threat, he's not a threat to drive the ball and while he's a decent passer out of the post, he's not a good playmaking passer in the way that McGee is. So when the team runs a set leaving Ayton to make a decision it's easy for the defense to back off him because he's a non-threat with the ball. Without the ball, he's a legit rolling threat but with the ball, teams don't really care about him that far from the basket. It's not too dissimilar to Gobert who is also a non-threat in hand off situations out on the perimeter.

For Ayton to improve, he really needs to work on some aspect of the triple threat game because right now he's a total non-threat which just won't do.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1022 » by lilfishi22 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:57 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I love Isaac the player..he is awesome..yes, in a Bridges sort of way with blocks....but again, I think they would place him near untouchable. Especially after that contract. They have mostly rookie deals now anyway...and won't have to pay their Cs much. Bamba and Carter are starting to look a lot better now too. Wagner is good but Isaac is better than any of those guys.


They already paid WCJ and Bamba is due up this year...as he's from the same class as Ayton. The only spot they have available is C...if they let Bamba walk. I don't really think that Issac can play the pivot as he's too light. He's a PF and they are already paying WCJ.

Issac is displaced over there, while Mikal would fit that team like a glove. Admittedly Mikal also fits our team like a glove but like I said a healthy Issac is Mikal 5 inches taller. He's also younger than Mikal too which helps obviously. This way we can keep Cam while making better use of him to boot.

This would have to wait till the trade deadline if not the off-season as you'd need to see Issac play for a few months and how he looks. But if he's the same guy we saw pre bubble, think I'd have to pull the trigger on that one.


I wouldn't trade Mikal for him if only because Mikal never misses games and Isaac never plays in them. I think the Magic would get rid of almost anyone else before they got rid of Isaac personally.

I like the idea of Isaac more than the actual player. The simple fact that he's played a total of 136 out of a possible 263 games is pretty concerning. He's basically been healthy one season and in the other two full seasons, he's played 27 and 35 games. He has yet to suit up this season. I just don't understand why the Magic would put him in the untouchable bucket
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1023 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:02 am

Saberestar wrote:Kaminsky out indefinitely. ****.

That's really disappointing. Just when he started to play well for us. Gonna be hard to replace a solid 3rd string big if he's out for a while.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1024 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:24 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
They already paid WCJ and Bamba is due up this year...as he's from the same class as Ayton. The only spot they have available is C...if they let Bamba walk. I don't really think that Issac can play the pivot as he's too light. He's a PF and they are already paying WCJ.

Issac is displaced over there, while Mikal would fit that team like a glove. Admittedly Mikal also fits our team like a glove but like I said a healthy Issac is Mikal 5 inches taller. He's also younger than Mikal too which helps obviously. This way we can keep Cam while making better use of him to boot.

This would have to wait till the trade deadline if not the off-season as you'd need to see Issac play for a few months and how he looks. But if he's the same guy we saw pre bubble, think I'd have to pull the trigger on that one.


I wouldn't trade Mikal for him if only because Mikal never misses games and Isaac never plays in them. I think the Magic would get rid of almost anyone else before they got rid of Isaac personally.

I like the idea of Isaac more than the actual player. The simple fact that he's played a total of 136 out of a possible 263 games is pretty concerning. He's basically been healthy one season and in the other two full seasons, he's played 27 and 35 games. He has yet to suit up this season. I just don't understand why the Magic would put him in the untouchable bucket


I like the idea of him and the actual player, just not that he's injured a lot.

They signed Isaac to a 4/$80 million deal when they knew he was out. He can do everything...he is super long, mobile, can hit 3s, block shots, get steals, etc.

They have ample cap space. Just not sure why they would entertain trading him when they are rebuilding anyway. They can allow him time to get healthy.

We wouldn't trade for him anyway because we need health as a contender....even if he was healthy it seems risky due to his history.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1025 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:30 am

Damn I didn't even realize we played tonight. My football team does too...damn. I will start a game thread this time since no one seems to want to......can just copy an earlier one against Denver.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1026 » by Slim Charless » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:36 am

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I wouldn't trade Mikal for him if only because Mikal never misses games and Isaac never plays in them. I think the Magic would get rid of almost anyone else before they got rid of Isaac personally.

I like the idea of Isaac more than the actual player. The simple fact that he's played a total of 136 out of a possible 263 games is pretty concerning. He's basically been healthy one season and in the other two full seasons, he's played 27 and 35 games. He has yet to suit up this season. I just don't understand why the Magic would put him in the untouchable bucket


I like the idea of him and the actual player, just not that he's injured a lot.

They signed Isaac to a 4/$80 million deal when they knew he was out. He can do everything...he is super long, mobile, can hit 3s, block shots, get steals, etc.

They have ample cap space. Just not sure why they would entertain trading him when they are rebuilding anyway. They can allow him time to get healthy.

We wouldn't trade for him anyway because we need health as a contender....even if he was healthy it seems risky due to his history.


I disagree. We're talking about this in a vacuum as a player for player trade.

And on that level, you make the deal every day, all day. Mikal is great but Isaac is better-when both are 100% healthy.

I get that we're dealing with a massive injury issue with him but that's why I made my disclaimer in that a healthy Issac is the perfect 4 for this team.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1027 » by bigfoot » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:00 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:Kaminsky out indefinitely. ****.

That's really disappointing. Just when he started to play well for us. Gonna be hard to replace a solid 3rd string big if he's out for a while.


Six to eight weeks for a stress reaction to heal. Then regaining conditioning and strength. Could be 3 months or March/April timeframe before he is back.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1028 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:59 am

Some tough games coming up. After NY we play at Cleveland, NY and Brooklyn and then 2 of our next 3 after that are against the Warriors.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1029 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:02 am

For new poll....how many do you think we win out of the 15 games through Christmas?

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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1030 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:24 am

I went with 10. Feels a bit optimistic.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1031 » by cberry78 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:28 am

I went 11, could see 10, but....

WWWLWWLWWWWWLWL
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1032 » by garrick » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:40 am

Some potentially bad news, Frank is out indefinitely with a stress reaction in his knee.

It could be nothing or it could be a season ending injury.

Unfortunately I don't think any available centers on the NBA scrap heap can come close to providing the same value on a vet min contract the way Frank has with the Suns if we need to sign someone as the third string center.

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2021/11/21/projecting-frank-kaminsky-injury-timeline-suns/

The Phoenix Suns merry-go-round at the center position continues. This afternoon, it was announced that Frank Kaminsky would be out indefinitely due to a stress reaction in his right knee.

Put simply, a stress reaction happens when excessive damage or stress occurs on a specific bone area. So for Kaminsky, he does not seem to have suffered any structural damage at this point, but does need to refrain from basketball activities to avoid doing so.

Kaminsky missed Phoenix’s last two games against the Dallas Mavericks, but largely contributed to the team’s upsurge over the past few weeks, filling in perfectly as Deandre Ayton worked his way back from his own injury.

Averaging 10.6 points and a career-high 4.6 rebounds per game so far this year, the Suns now lose a marquee role player likely for several weeks. Kaminsky also finds himself shooting career-bests 54.5 percent from the field and 90.0 percent from the charity stripe.

But even aside from his on-court impact, few players seemed to spur locker room comradery better than Kaminsky. Although the Suns surely expect him to stick around as he heals up, his pending absence at team practices and on the bench still feels like a gut punch, especially for a team like the Phoenix currently firing on all cylinders.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1033 » by Slim Charless » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:06 am

cberry78 wrote:I went 11, could see 10, but....

WWWLWWLWWWWWLWL


I have us getting 11 too. Maybe 12 if we can get 2/3 of the Dubs games.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1034 » by Mulhollanddrive » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:49 am

10 would be a great effort, 9 wouldn't be a disaster.

@ GSW, GSW, Brooklyn, Lakers are all tough and 11 would mean budgeting to go perfect for the rest.

22-9 would still likely have us several games clear in the top 3.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1035 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:37 pm

This doesn't really have any relevance to the discussion. But I just felt like sharing it anyways because I found it to be funny!
Cage (@ridiculouscage) Tweeted:
wow, the ref should be fined for doing this https://t.co/k3GV7wizZ0
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1036 » by Saberestar » Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:26 pm

MPJ could be out for the season with a back injury.

It's not looking good at all for the Nuggets. It was a risky move for sure.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1037 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:26 pm

There are a lot of tough games there. 3 against the Warriors, @Brooklyn, NY, CLEV, LAC, possibly Portland who beat us by 29 the first time, Washington, Charlotte and maybe Boston. None of those are particularly easy or something I would immediately chalk up as a win. We haven't played that well for a lot of quarters. We struggled in both Dallas games without Luka and I think every team I named is tougher than a Luka-less Dallas team.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1038 » by suns12345 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:45 pm

Saberestar wrote:MPJ could be out for the season with a back injury.

It's not looking good at all for the Nuggets. It was a risky move for sure.


Even pre-injury it was risky.

He proved he was a liability in the playoffs, compared to someone like DA who excelled.

Maybe both should have been given the max but I'd rather be in our position than theirs that's for sure.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1039 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:18 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I like the idea of Isaac more than the actual player. The simple fact that he's played a total of 136 out of a possible 263 games is pretty concerning. He's basically been healthy one season and in the other two full seasons, he's played 27 and 35 games. He has yet to suit up this season. I just don't understand why the Magic would put him in the untouchable bucket


I like the idea of him and the actual player, just not that he's injured a lot.

They signed Isaac to a 4/$80 million deal when they knew he was out. He can do everything...he is super long, mobile, can hit 3s, block shots, get steals, etc.

They have ample cap space. Just not sure why they would entertain trading him when they are rebuilding anyway. They can allow him time to get healthy.

We wouldn't trade for him anyway because we need health as a contender....even if he was healthy it seems risky due to his history.


I disagree. We're talking about this in a vacuum as a player for player trade.

And on that level, you make the deal every day, all day. Mikal is great but Isaac is better-when both are 100% healthy.

I get that we're dealing with a massive injury issue with him but that's why I made my disclaimer in that a healthy Issac is the perfect 4 for this team.

That's a unicorn, doesn't exist until it's been proven and verified
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#1040 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:23 pm

bwgood77 wrote:There are a lot of tough games there. 3 against the Warriors, @Brooklyn, NY, CLEV, LAC, possibly Portland who beat us by 29 the first time, Washington, Charlotte and maybe Boston. None of those are particularly easy or something I would immediately chalk up as a win. We haven't played that well for a lot of quarters. We struggled in both Dallas games without Luka and I think every team I named is tougher than a Luka-less Dallas team.

I've totally wiped that from my memory. Had to look back at the results to verify that we did get destroyed in that 3rd game and then the sky fell on our heads when we lost to the Kings the following game to go down 1-3. Then our winning streak began.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though

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