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Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ

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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#101 » by Saberestar » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:06 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:I just wonder if the factors that have led to this winning streak have anything to do with Ayton. Crowder hitting threes is a big one. The whole team hitting threes. Is Ayton somehow the reason our shooters weren't getting a rhythm? Ball moving better, perhaps? I don't know.

I do know that Frank had a nice streak of positive production early last season before falling off a cliff. He looks better right now than he ever has, so perhaps this year will be different.

If all Ayton's good for is neutralizing Jokic and a few others, then I agree he's not worth the max. Willing to admit I was wrong if this keeps up.

Not yet at the point where I'm willing to consider trading Ayton, though who knows. Maybe that's already being discussed. I will say that if we're considering a trade, Simmons is not the guy I would target. Not sure who I'd look at TBH.

I wouldn't trade Ayton and I think he is a big part of our current team and our future BUT if we are gonna entertain some offers for him I would be interested in Siakam.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#102 » by Slim Charless » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:38 pm

Saberestar wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:I just wonder if the factors that have led to this winning streak have anything to do with Ayton. Crowder hitting threes is a big one. The whole team hitting threes. Is Ayton somehow the reason our shooters weren't getting a rhythm? Ball moving better, perhaps? I don't know.

I do know that Frank had a nice streak of positive production early last season before falling off a cliff. He looks better right now than he ever has, so perhaps this year will be different.

If all Ayton's good for is neutralizing Jokic and a few others, then I agree he's not worth the max. Willing to admit I was wrong if this keeps up.

Not yet at the point where I'm willing to consider trading Ayton, though who knows. Maybe that's already being discussed. I will say that if we're considering a trade, Simmons is not the guy I would target. Not sure who I'd look at TBH.

I wouldn't trade Ayton and I think he is a big part of our current team and our future BUT if we are gonna entertain some offers for him I would be interested in Siakam.


Siakam is old and kinda overrated imo. The guy we play on Monday is the only player I'd (realistically) want for Ayton. Even then, there's a bunch of issues doing that trade.

Ayton will prove his worth soon enough.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#103 » by wheezy » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:52 pm

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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#104 » by Puff » Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:36 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:I just wonder if the factors that have led to this winning streak have anything to do with Ayton. Crowder hitting threes is a big one. The whole team hitting threes. Is Ayton somehow the reason our shooters weren't getting a rhythm? Ball moving better, perhaps? I don't know.

I do know that Frank had a nice streak of positive production early last season before falling off a cliff. He looks better right now than he ever has, so perhaps this year will be different.

If all Ayton's good for is neutralizing Jokic and a few others, then I agree he's not worth the max. Willing to admit I was wrong if this keeps up.

Not yet at the point where I'm willing to consider trading Ayton, though who knows. Maybe that's already being discussed. I will say that if we're considering a trade, Simmons is not the guy I would target. Not sure who I'd look at TBH.

I wouldn't trade Ayton and I think he is a big part of our current team and our future BUT if we are gonna entertain some offers for him I would be interested in Siakam.


Siakam is old and kinda overrated imo. The guy we play on Monday is the only player I'd (realistically) want for Ayton. Even then, there's a bunch of issues doing that trade.

Ayton will prove his worth soon enough.


Wow, the Ayton lovers have really lost their mind. I like him but do not love him. When he plays and plays with force he can be very effective. How anyone can justify paying this guy the max is beyond belief. If he comes back from this injury and plays with the force on a nightly basis I will change my mind. He has not shown that ability except for the playoffs. When he met a legit max player he was schooled by Giannis. Frank actually was pretty effective when given the opportunity. I am not saying the Frank is our answer just that Ayton is not a max player at this time. James Jones made the correct decision.

Siakam was a guy I was thinking about. He is 27, that is not too old. However, I doubt that he is worth the max either. I would take KAT in a heartbeat over Ayton.

Both McGee and Frank have better moves around the basket than Ayton. Ayton surely is a better pick and roll target than either Frank of McGee. I have seen very little improvement in Ayton's game since we drafted him. Yeah his defense is much better but on offense the only difference is that CP3 has been on his arse to play better.

If you have been missing watching Ayton on the court, what have you been watching.

By the way, who plays center for the Clippers. They were rated as the best team the league last year and probably would be this year as well with a healthy Kawhi.

How many championships has Embiid won?

The days of Kareem and Shaq are long gone.
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Now it is time to turn this mess into a winner.

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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#105 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:56 pm

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sunsbg wrote:We need DA in a playoff series vs Jokic. McGee and Frank didn't play at all in most playoff games. This tweet above based on one game is stupid.

Suns rolling. Should have put more money on the over 51.5 wins.


This is actually not stupid.

Who is playing center for the Dubs this year?

Who played center for the Dubs when they were winning championships?

Don't cheat and look at box scores. Their center of the future Wiseman has not even played this year and they are 11 and 1.

This league has been about which team has the best Wings for a while. While Giannis played center he plays like a wing in a 7 ' Body.
The best two players in the World arguably are Lebron and Durant over the past decade. The could be called anything from a PG to a Center depending on the need.

I do not dislike Ayton but if we could use his money for a legit All Pro wing you just have to do it. I have no idea who would be available and what team would noy resign someone that fits the bill. The Dubs appear to have hit the jackpot in getting Wiggins. When they add a healthy Klay Thompson to the mix they are going to be unbeatable.

When was the last time a team won the championship with their best player being a Center. Anthony Davis is and wants to be a PF.

Of course you can say what team is going to stop our rotation of bigs. If Ayton comes back healthy while we still get steady production out of Frank and McGee. We could be really tough once Booker gets his head out of his arse.


The Warriors are not good because they don't have a C or because of wings. Are you kidding? It's because they have one of the best players ever in Curry. And their second most important player is not a wing either. It's a great long defensive utility big in Draymond Green.

And before they added KD, one of the best players ever, to Curry, the team that won the championship and also the team that won 73 games the next year had Bogut at C who was an overall #1 pick great defensive C.

And of course, if you have a LeBron, KD, Curry, Giannis, Kawhi or Luka, that is what is going to make the difference, but that has little relevance on Ayton. Those are generational type players that are likely going to end up winning most of the championship..the superstars always have and always do.

Also, signing Ayton for less, doesn't mean you have money for a wing...we are over the cap by a lot. It doesn't create cap space.

No one seems to understand this. Even on his QO we don't have cap space to sign someone with savings...it just reduces the amount we are over the cap and/or into the tax.

I don't want to give him the max, but it would be nice to sign him for a nice 5 year contract for around what Bridges got per year or a little more.

If we could do an awesome S&T, that would be good.

Anyway, he's looked tough the last few times he's played too, with a 21/21 game and another 17/12/3 both of those on 75 or 80% shooting. We all know guys like McGee have a good game here and there and Frank will have a run of nice games like during our win streak last year but he's not consistent.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#106 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:09 pm

sunsbg wrote:
sunskerr wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
If you can get an ATG player obviously you do it. Superstars win in this league, especially on super teams, that's true.

By the logic of this tweet I guess Nuggets/76ers should get rid of Jokic/Embiid and go for a McGee + Frank combo. Suns should get rid of Booker because he was not 7-8 times better than Cam J in this game.

I'm sure the great Cs of the past can win a title in this league paired with 1-2 other great players. Whether Ayton can turn into a great C is another story. Obviously the Suns don't think so.


Lmao dude nobody is saying this. Only you are.


I'm just showing how easy it's to draw stupid conclusions based on a random stat from a single game. This guy is probably one of those who disregard Cs today(same people then cry about Lakers size), though if you replace Embiid with say Lillard you end with the same if not a worse team.

P.S. Ayton played like a max player last playoffs, but I guess Suns didn't need him at all. LMAO.


I imagine someone in Philly is saying "We have shown we can win with a frontcourt of Paul Reed and Drummond...maybe we should think about trading Embiid".
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#107 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:13 pm

Revived wrote:Suns are a better team with Ayton starting than Frank or McGee starting. I don’t think anyone at all is arguing that.

I think people differ when it comes to “at what cost”. Is it at max level?

I still think at the end of the day, I’d rather give max to Ayton to keep him than lose him for nothing because his defense is spectacular (when he tries unlike the last game he played), and he’s young so there’s hope he can build his offense along the way. Plus Suns have a small window for contention based on CP3’s longevity so best to not have crazy changes on the roster till he retires or leaves.

But I fully understand the hesitancy to pay Ayton the max as well. I don’t think it’s BS points, it’s valid points there as well.

Ideally you’d want Ayton on a John Collins type contract.


That's my hope. Someone mentioned 4 year max like that's a deal. I hope we can give him more money overall than a 4 year max, but over 5 years, so it would be like Collins deal. I think a 4 year max is like 4/$130, but if we could do like 5/$135 that would be solid.

This is all assuming he continues to progress.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#108 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:23 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:I just wonder if the factors that have led to this winning streak have anything to do with Ayton. Crowder hitting threes is a big one. The whole team hitting threes. Is Ayton somehow the reason our shooters weren't getting a rhythm? Ball moving better, perhaps? I don't know.

I do know that Frank had a nice streak of positive production early last season before falling off a cliff. He looks better right now than he ever has, so perhaps this year will be different.

If all Ayton's good for is neutralizing Jokic and a few others, then I agree he's not worth the max. Willing to admit I was wrong if this keeps up.

Not yet at the point where I'm willing to consider trading Ayton, though who knows. Maybe that's already being discussed. I will say that if we're considering a trade, Simmons is not the guy I would target. Not sure who I'd look at TBH.


Yeah, the 3 pt shooting is something that goes hot and cold with or without Ayton and we went hot and Memphis went cold. That stuff is completely random. Typically our shooters are better when Ayton plays due to his gravity leaving more open, and he's a better passer than McGee.

But a guy like Frank who can hit the 3 is always nice because it opens up the lane for people to drive which makes our motion a lot more confusing for a defense. That is why it would be nice for Ayton to be a 3 pt threat too to switch things up and have more movement.

Memphis is usually tough for us (and anyone) but that is about the worst they have shot from 3. I think the return of Brooks last game might have thrown them off, even though Brooks was good. The Melton/Bane (ex and possible Sun) backcourt had been really balling and Bane went 1-10 that game....and then 4-13 in this one. But everyone was off for them.

Part of the reason we were so bad early (the primary reason) was opponent 3 pt shooting which was bad defense and just general crazy good shooting by opponents.

I really like Frank, but I think part of it is he is more catching guys off guard. You think defenses come into a game when Ayton is out with the same kind of defensive plans for Frank or McGee as they have for Ayton? Obviously not. That's why when simpletons like the guy that posted that tweet that was posted a few posts up about how many points are Cs scored with Ayton out don't really get it.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#109 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:01 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Biff wrote:Interesting that on our 7 game winning streak, Ayton has sat for 5 of them. He's good but we've been doing very well with the McGee/Frank combo. Do we really want to give the guy the max? I still don't think he's a max player. I think he deserves about the same as what Bridges got.


I don't think he's worth the max, but at the same time I wouldn't risk losing him. I think it mainly depends on the ultimate goal. He was one of our key players (and maybe most important as Paul said) in our first run to the finals since 93. Now regardless of what we have, a championship is a tall order, but if we want that chance, I think we need him. Yes, I think we can still be pretty good with others, though I don't think I'd put a ton of stock in a Kaminsky/McGee pairing or something similar being fine for us if we want to be a contender.


I believe that he's honestly worth 25-27 million based upon what he's already shown in the playoffs ( being much more important than regular season). As well as his still sky high upside. I believe that IF he was actually a focal point of our offense, he'd obviously have much better statistical production. But he was unselfish in accepting a complimentary role as a defensive lynchpin for our team. And deferring offensively to Booker and Paul due to Monty's and Jones proclivities for style of play.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#110 » by Puff » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:04 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
sunskerr wrote:
Lmao dude nobody is saying this. Only you are.


I'm just showing how easy it's to draw stupid conclusions based on a random stat from a single game. This guy is probably one of those who disregard Cs today(same people then cry about Lakers size), though if you replace Embiid with say Lillard you end with the same if not a worse team.

P.S. Ayton played like a max player last playoffs, but I guess Suns didn't need him at all. LMAO.


I imagine someone in Philly is saying "We have shown we can win with a frontcourt of Paul Reed and Drummond...maybe we should think about trading Embiid".


Now that is stupid. What is wrong with you. What are you trying to prove. However, some in Philadelphia may think that they would be better off without Embiid. He basically quit on them in one of the playoff series in recent years and did not perform well down the stretch in last years playoffs. They might be better off with Butler rather than him. He puts up great numbers and the broadcasters seem to love him. He doesn't seem to be a real team player to me. He also seems to be hurt a lot.

Back to your boy Ayton. What exactly has he improved on other than defense, which certainly is important? He can't post up anyone his size and rarely takes it to the basket. Frank and McGee have attached the basket in their short tenure more than Ayton has in his career. Certainly Ayton is a more viable lob target but McGee is not awful. No one is saying that Frank or McGee is better than Ayton but they are not in line for a max extension. It would be nice to get another legit max player added to the mix. If you or anyone else does not see that I have no idea what you are watching.

A trade of Ayton for KAT would be wonderful. Unfortunately the Wolves would just laugh.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#111 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:38 pm

Puff wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
I'm just showing how easy it's to draw stupid conclusions based on a random stat from a single game. This guy is probably one of those who disregard Cs today(same people then cry about Lakers size), though if you replace Embiid with say Lillard you end with the same if not a worse team.

P.S. Ayton played like a max player last playoffs, but I guess Suns didn't need him at all. LMAO.


I imagine someone in Philly is saying "We have shown we can win with a frontcourt of Paul Reed and Drummond...maybe we should think about trading Embiid".


Now that is stupid. What is wrong with you. What are you trying to prove. However, some in Philadelphia may think that they would be better off without Embiid. He basically quit on them in one of the playoff series in recent years and did not perform well down the stretch in last years playoffs. They might be better off with Butler rather than him. He puts up great numbers and the broadcasters seem to love him. He doesn't seem to be a real team player to me. He also seems to be hurt a lot.

Back to your boy Ayton. What exactly has he improved on other than defense, which certainly is important? He can't post up anyone his size and rarely takes it to the basket. Frank and McGee have attached the basket in their short tenure more than Ayton has in his career. Certainly Ayton is a more viable lob target but McGee is not awful. No one is saying that Frank or McGee is better than Ayton but they are not in line for a max extension. It would be nice to get another legit max player added to the mix. If you or anyone else does not see that I have no idea what you are watching.

A trade of Ayton for KAT would be wonderful. Unfortunately the Wolves would just laugh.


Yes, a trade for KAT would be nice as would one for Curry, Giannis, Doncic or KD, but those things are not going to happen.

I've watched him since AZ and I've personally never had a problem with his offense like many others are, but I am not pining for a low post C centric offense either.

It's his defense. I didn't want to draft him over Doncic primarily because he was awful and now he went from one of the worst defensive bigs to be drafted that highly to one of the most versatile defensive big men in the league as he can switch onto the perimeter and come back to help if needed. With some of the versatile bigs like AD, Jokic, etc, that's big.

And yes, Giannis kills everyone but he has played him well in the past. He was also 22 in his first playoff appearance. He wasn't the guy primarily on Giannis anyway since they were calling so many fouls...Crowder was on him. Giannis mainly killed us in the last game at the line. He got to the line a ton and somehow suddenly improved his %.

Another thing he has become great at is screening for our shooters...he was among the league leaders in screen assists. He may not have guys run into him off of hard screens but he gets in position to pick the defenders off Book and Paul for easy shots.

Booker has sorely missed him since he's been gone and has been shooting a lot more poorly not being able to shoot off his screens.

As for offense, he cut out the midrange as probably instructed and either just finished inside or has a nice hook shot, short spin fadeaway and baseline jumper. He can take pretty much anyone one on one. He has started to drive a lot more as of late as well, when he gets the ball a few feet away from the basket with space.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#112 » by Jdiddy701 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:09 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Puff wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I imagine someone in Philly is saying "We have shown we can win with a frontcourt of Paul Reed and Drummond...maybe we should think about trading Embiid".


Now that is stupid. What is wrong with you. What are you trying to prove. However, some in Philadelphia may think that they would be better off without Embiid. He basically quit on them in one of the playoff series in recent years and did not perform well down the stretch in last years playoffs. They might be better off with Butler rather than him. He puts up great numbers and the broadcasters seem to love him. He doesn't seem to be a real team player to me. He also seems to be hurt a lot.

Back to your boy Ayton. What exactly has he improved on other than defense, which certainly is important? He can't post up anyone his size and rarely takes it to the basket. Frank and McGee have attached the basket in their short tenure more than Ayton has in his career. Certainly Ayton is a more viable lob target but McGee is not awful. No one is saying that Frank or McGee is better than Ayton but they are not in line for a max extension. It would be nice to get another legit max player added to the mix. If you or anyone else does not see that I have no idea what you are watching.

A trade of Ayton for KAT would be wonderful. Unfortunately the Wolves would just laugh.


Yes, a trade for KAT would be nice as would one for Curry, Giannis, Doncic or KD, but those things are not going to happen.

I've watched him since AZ and I've personally never had a problem with his offense like many others are, but I am not pining for a low post C centric offense either.

It's his defense. I didn't want to draft him over Doncic primarily because he was awful and now he went from one of the worst defensive bigs to be drafted that highly to one of the most versatile defensive big men in the league as he can switch onto the perimeter and come back to help if needed. With some of the versatile bigs like AD, Jokic, etc, that's big.

And yes, Giannis kills everyone but he has played him well in the past. He was also 22 in his first playoff appearance. He wasn't the guy primarily on Giannis anyway since they were calling so many fouls...Crowder was on him. Giannis mainly killed us in the last game at the line. He got to the line a ton and somehow suddenly improved his %.

Another thing he has become great at is screening for our shooters...he was among the league leaders in screen assists. He may not have guys run into him off of hard screens but he gets in position to pick the defenders off Book and Paul for easy shots.

Booker has sorely missed him since he's been gone and has been shooting a lot more poorly not being able to shoot off his screens.

As for offense, he cut out the midrange as probably instructed and either just finished inside or has a nice hook shot, short spin fadeaway and baseline jumper. He can take pretty much anyone one on one. He has started to drive a lot more as of late as well, when he gets the ball a few feet away from the basket with space.

Booker has missed Ayton? Lol you might be the only one who thinks Ayton sets good screens. Dude hates contact. I’m not sure Booker’s struggles has anything to do with Ayton. Frank IMO sets better screens than DA.


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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#113 » by sunsbg » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:18 pm

Frank - the king of contact and dominant post moves. LOL.

See you in the playoffs, Ayton haters, when your 45/15 once in 82 regular season games combo averages 12 mins a game combined.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#114 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:31 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Puff wrote:
Now that is stupid. What is wrong with you. What are you trying to prove. However, some in Philadelphia may think that they would be better off without Embiid. He basically quit on them in one of the playoff series in recent years and did not perform well down the stretch in last years playoffs. They might be better off with Butler rather than him. He puts up great numbers and the broadcasters seem to love him. He doesn't seem to be a real team player to me. He also seems to be hurt a lot.

Back to your boy Ayton. What exactly has he improved on other than defense, which certainly is important? He can't post up anyone his size and rarely takes it to the basket. Frank and McGee have attached the basket in their short tenure more than Ayton has in his career. Certainly Ayton is a more viable lob target but McGee is not awful. No one is saying that Frank or McGee is better than Ayton but they are not in line for a max extension. It would be nice to get another legit max player added to the mix. If you or anyone else does not see that I have no idea what you are watching.

A trade of Ayton for KAT would be wonderful. Unfortunately the Wolves would just laugh.


Yes, a trade for KAT would be nice as would one for Curry, Giannis, Doncic or KD, but those things are not going to happen.

I've watched him since AZ and I've personally never had a problem with his offense like many others are, but I am not pining for a low post C centric offense either.

It's his defense. I didn't want to draft him over Doncic primarily because he was awful and now he went from one of the worst defensive bigs to be drafted that highly to one of the most versatile defensive big men in the league as he can switch onto the perimeter and come back to help if needed. With some of the versatile bigs like AD, Jokic, etc, that's big.

And yes, Giannis kills everyone but he has played him well in the past. He was also 22 in his first playoff appearance. He wasn't the guy primarily on Giannis anyway since they were calling so many fouls...Crowder was on him. Giannis mainly killed us in the last game at the line. He got to the line a ton and somehow suddenly improved his %.

Another thing he has become great at is screening for our shooters...he was among the league leaders in screen assists. He may not have guys run into him off of hard screens but he gets in position to pick the defenders off Book and Paul for easy shots.

Booker has sorely missed him since he's been gone and has been shooting a lot more poorly not being able to shoot off his screens.

As for offense, he cut out the midrange as probably instructed and either just finished inside or has a nice hook shot, short spin fadeaway and baseline jumper. He can take pretty much anyone one on one. He has started to drive a lot more as of late as well, when he gets the ball a few feet away from the basket with space.

Booker has missed Ayton? Lol you might be the only one who thinks Ayton sets good screens. Dude hates contact. I’m not sure Booker’s struggles has anything to do with Ayton. Frank IMO sets better screens than DA.

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Ayton is among league leaders in screen assists. That means he disrupts the defender on the ball which ends in a main basket. Seems like some feel players need to create contact or knock people over when you create screens. You are stopping a guy from following another. He does it quietly and defenders end up having to run around him ending up in a basket. They often talk about his screens and how important they are...as do some of the better analysts like David Nash.

He's even near the leaders this year so far. He was 3rd in the NBA last year and averaging more screen assists per game this year than last.

It's about intention of screen and result rather than how "awesome" it looks. If the purpose is to pick defenders off a ball handler so he can get a clean shot, he ranks near the top.
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#115 » by Jdiddy701 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:49 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Yes, a trade for KAT would be nice as would one for Curry, Giannis, Doncic or KD, but those things are not going to happen.

I've watched him since AZ and I've personally never had a problem with his offense like many others are, but I am not pining for a low post C centric offense either.

It's his defense. I didn't want to draft him over Doncic primarily because he was awful and now he went from one of the worst defensive bigs to be drafted that highly to one of the most versatile defensive big men in the league as he can switch onto the perimeter and come back to help if needed. With some of the versatile bigs like AD, Jokic, etc, that's big.

And yes, Giannis kills everyone but he has played him well in the past. He was also 22 in his first playoff appearance. He wasn't the guy primarily on Giannis anyway since they were calling so many fouls...Crowder was on him. Giannis mainly killed us in the last game at the line. He got to the line a ton and somehow suddenly improved his %.

Another thing he has become great at is screening for our shooters...he was among the league leaders in screen assists. He may not have guys run into him off of hard screens but he gets in position to pick the defenders off Book and Paul for easy shots.

Booker has sorely missed him since he's been gone and has been shooting a lot more poorly not being able to shoot off his screens.

As for offense, he cut out the midrange as probably instructed and either just finished inside or has a nice hook shot, short spin fadeaway and baseline jumper. He can take pretty much anyone one on one. He has started to drive a lot more as of late as well, when he gets the ball a few feet away from the basket with space.

Booker has missed Ayton? Lol you might be the only one who thinks Ayton sets good screens. Dude hates contact. I’m not sure Booker’s struggles has anything to do with Ayton. Frank IMO sets better screens than DA.

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Ayton is among league leaders in screen assists. That means he disrupts the defender on the ball which ends in a main basket. Seems like some feel players need to create contact or knock people over when you create screens. You are stopping a guy from following another. He does it quietly and defenders end up having to run around him ending up in a basket. They often talk about his screens and how important they are...as do some of the better analysts like David Nash.

He's even near the leaders this year so far.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle/?sort=SCREEN_ASSISTS&dir=1

Probably one of the leaders because the Suns players don’t give him the ball in that situation and know they have to be the one to score. That actually makes sense why he’s a leader in that stat. It also helps that CP3 and Book are efficient in the mid range shot. I wouldn’t put much stock in that stat honestly.


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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#116 » by bwgood77 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:54 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:Booker has missed Ayton? Lol you might be the only one who thinks Ayton sets good screens. Dude hates contact. I’m not sure Booker’s struggles has anything to do with Ayton. Frank IMO sets better screens than DA.

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Ayton is among league leaders in screen assists. That means he disrupts the defender on the ball which ends in a main basket. Seems like some feel players need to create contact or knock people over when you create screens. You are stopping a guy from following another. He does it quietly and defenders end up having to run around him ending up in a basket. They often talk about his screens and how important they are...as do some of the better analysts like David Nash.

He's even near the leaders this year so far.

Probably one of the leaders because the Suns players don’t give him the ball in that situation and know they have to be the one to score. That actually makes sense why he’s a leader in that stat. It also helps that CP3 and Book are efficient in the mid range shot. I wouldn’t put much stock in that stat honestly.

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These are plays Monty runs for them to get clean shots after he takes the defender off. He is effective.

It's about intent and end result of the screen...a basket. Not how "awesome" it looks lol.

Yes, it helps if you have guys who shoot well off of screens...for all the screeners.

Booker's lowest fg% games aside from the first game of the season were 3 games where Ayton has not been there.

Pelicans 35% 7-20
Blazers 33% 5-15
Grizzlies 41% 7-17
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Re: Game 11: Phoenix Suns (7-3) @ Memphis Grizzlies (6-5) l Friday l 6:00pm l BSAZ 

Post#117 » by Slim Charless » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:00 am

Puff wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Saberestar wrote:I wouldn't trade Ayton and I think he is a big part of our current team and our future BUT if we are gonna entertain some offers for him I would be interested in Siakam.


Siakam is old and kinda overrated imo. The guy we play on Monday is the only player I'd (realistically) want for Ayton. Even then, there's a bunch of issues doing that trade.

Ayton will prove his worth soon enough.


Wow, the Ayton lovers have really lost their mind. I like him but do not love him. When he plays and plays with force he can be very effective. How anyone can justify paying this guy the max is beyond belief. If he comes back from this injury and plays with the force on a nightly basis I will change my mind. He has not shown that ability except for the playoffs. When he met a legit max player he was schooled by Giannis. Frank actually was pretty effective when given the opportunity. I am not saying the Frank is our answer just that Ayton is not a max player at this time. James Jones made the correct decision.

Siakam was a guy I was thinking about. He is 27, that is not too old. However, I doubt that he is worth the max either. I would take KAT in a heartbeat over Ayton.

Both McGee and Frank have better moves around the basket than Ayton. Ayton surely is a better pick and roll target than either Frank of McGee. I have seen very little improvement in Ayton's game since we drafted him. Yeah his defense is much better but on offense the only difference is that CP3 has been on his arse to play better.

If you have been missing watching Ayton on the court, what have you been watching.

By the way, who plays center for the Clippers. They were rated as the best team the league last year and probably would be this year as well with a healthy Kawhi.

How many championships has Embiid won?

The days of Kareem and Shaq are long gone.


In any other generation, Giannis and AD would be centers. We can easily run our offense through Ayton like MIL does Giannis and LAL did Davis.

He has the potential to be as good as them. We have a HOF point guard who should be making a point to get our generational big man the ball more.

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