ImageImageImage

Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm

Moderators: bwgood77, Kerrsed, Qwigglez, lilfishi22

sunsbg
Veteran
Posts: 2,558
And1: 1,805
Joined: Feb 29, 2016

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#61 » by sunsbg » Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:27 am

Started watching with 9 mins remaining. Were Mavs playing zone D in the first to stop CP3 PnRs ? Kinda expected Suns take the Mavs less serious with Doncic out. Still 10 straight wins, hopefully 11 with a more convincing win coming.
User avatar
darealjuice
Suns Forum Future All Star
Posts: 6,065
And1: 7,828
Joined: Apr 22, 2016
Location: Phoenix
   

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#62 » by darealjuice » Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:28 am

Mavs shot 50% from 3 and 37% from 2 tonight lol traded their layups in for 3s I guess
User avatar
darealjuice
Suns Forum Future All Star
Posts: 6,065
And1: 7,828
Joined: Apr 22, 2016
Location: Phoenix
   

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#63 » by darealjuice » Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:29 am

sunsbg wrote:Started watching with 9 mins remaining. Were Mavs playing zone D in the first to stop CP3 PnRs ? Kinda expected Suns take the Mavs less serious with Doncic out. Still 10 straight wins, hopefully 11 with a more convincing win coming.


That Mavericks zone was basically the catalyst to our comeback lol masterclass by Kidd
User avatar
grumpysaddle
RealGM
Posts: 16,624
And1: 10,085
Joined: Feb 22, 2009
Location: San Diego
 

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#64 » by grumpysaddle » Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:30 am

Book's nose is still all crooked from the break last season.
Image
Revived
RealGM
Posts: 29,264
And1: 14,455
Joined: Feb 17, 2011

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#65 » by Revived » Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:03 am

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2139195&p=94876515&sid=031fbad77b7a864adf3b41594ab7910d#p94876251

Suns have so many haters on the GB lol. Funny to see fans of teams the Suns eliminated in the playoffs last year say this haha.
Bogyo
Starter
Posts: 2,264
And1: 1,331
Joined: Jul 29, 2013

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#66 » by Bogyo » Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:20 am

Not sure how we won this game... But I'll take it, thank you Mr Kidd, I see your heart is still is with us! :)
10 straight, hooray! But it's high time we start playing better consistantly...
sundevil1999
Ballboy
Posts: 40
And1: 45
Joined: Jun 09, 2009

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#67 » by sundevil1999 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:46 am

Read this on Dallas Forum (Absinthe). I wonder how much of the league fanbase feels the same way.

"I do not understand the Suns. I didn’t last year and I don’t this year. If you look at their roster make up they have have no business having the record they do. They run essentially a seven to eight man rotation and I would classify two of those players as great and the others as middling to good. I tip my hat to them because what they have works, but it seems like it shouldn’t. The Mavs were shooting above 50% at one point from three point range and the Suns still might win. It defies logic. In most games they’d be down by 20 points."
Mulhollanddrive
RealGM
Posts: 10,000
And1: 6,612
Joined: Jan 19, 2013

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#68 » by Mulhollanddrive » Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:50 am

Sign of a great team is winning ugly and winning in the clutch, we're tracking similarly to last year and hopefully will build towards peak Suns again. Liked the Bench and Booker's shooting improvement lately.

Dallas are statistically +2 points better with Brunson on the floor than Doncic in their 4 years together so was not expecting much drop off, Brunson will likely get a Brogdon type contract around $20m.
Saberestar
RealGM
Posts: 15,350
And1: 10,853
Joined: May 21, 2010

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#69 » by Saberestar » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:55 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Sign of a great team is winning ugly and winning in the clutch, we're tracking similarly to last year and hopefully will build towards peak Suns again. Liked the Bench and Booker's shooting improvement lately.

Dallas are statistically +2 points better with Brunson on the floor than Doncic in their 4 years together so was not expecting much drop off, Brunson will likely get a Brogdon type contract around $20m.

Yeah, Brunson is gonna get paid. He is an smart player who can help on too many areas, especially scoring and passing and he is a solid defender too...but small so limited in that side of the floor.

Easily $15M per year.
Mulhollanddrive
RealGM
Posts: 10,000
And1: 6,612
Joined: Jan 19, 2013

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#70 » by Mulhollanddrive » Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:42 am

Since we got Chris Paul:

Opposition under 106 points = 48-3 record
Suns over 110 points = 50-6 record

*points in regulation

Reason why it's so important to be top 10 in both offense and defense is you can double up on how you go on big streaks, having to be perfect on one end continuously is less likely to lead to 11 game win streaks.
Barkley6
Veteran
Posts: 2,645
And1: 2,093
Joined: Jul 08, 2013
       

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#71 » by Barkley6 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:16 pm

sundevil1999 wrote:Read this on Dallas Forum (Absinthe). I wonder how much of the league fanbase feels the same way.

"I do not understand the Suns. I didn’t last year and I don’t this year. If you look at their roster make up they have have no business having the record they do. They run essentially a seven to eight man rotation and I would classify two of those players as great and the others as middling to good. I tip my hat to them because what they have works, but it seems like it shouldn’t. The Mavs were shooting above 50% at one point from three point range and the Suns still might win. It defies logic. In most games they’d be down by 20 points."


The Mavs shot 41% from 2 and 50% from 3. so while the 3 point numbers are good, it seems like the game plan was to let them live with the jump shot and keep them out of the paint. Which worked.

I think a lot of credit goes to Monty Williams because yes, on paper this team doesn't look like it should be as good as it is. Coaching, chemistry and culture are what makes this team great and that goes to Monty. He's not always perfect, but he gets it right A LOT of the time.
User avatar
King4Day
RealGM
Posts: 10,206
And1: 6,689
Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Location: Pandora
         

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#72 » by King4Day » Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:04 pm

NBA radio saying 'suns under the radar 10 game win streak'. Truer words have never been spoken :)
All because of who we played. But I'm sure all other teams have beaten the weaker teams they have played too
"Sometimes, the dragon wins" #RallyTheValley
WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 17,927
And1: 13,252
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#73 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:47 pm

Barkley6 wrote:
sundevil1999 wrote:Read this on Dallas Forum (Absinthe). I wonder how much of the league fanbase feels the same way.

"I do not understand the Suns. I didn’t last year and I don’t this year. If you look at their roster make up they have have no business having the record they do. They run essentially a seven to eight man rotation and I would classify two of those players as great and the others as middling to good. I tip my hat to them because what they have works, but it seems like it shouldn’t. The Mavs were shooting above 50% at one point from three point range and the Suns still might win. It defies logic. In most games they’d be down by 20 points."


The Mavs shot 41% from 2 and 50% from 3. so while the 3 point numbers are good, it seems like the game plan was to let them live with the jump shot and keep them out of the paint. Which worked.

I think a lot of credit goes to Monty Williams because yes, on paper this team doesn't look like it should be as good as it is. Coaching, chemistry and culture are what makes this team great and that goes to Monty. He's not always perfect, but he gets it right A LOT of the time.
It's because people look at teams from a fantasy basketball perspective but fit and having the right balance of role players is more important than people realize. Hell I see that with suns fans and some of the trade ideas that get thrown around. Just because a guy averages more points than a current suns rotation guy it doesn't mean the team would actually be better if you swapped the players.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
Mulhollanddrive
RealGM
Posts: 10,000
And1: 6,612
Joined: Jan 19, 2013

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#74 » by Mulhollanddrive » Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:02 pm

I think we're undersold.

2 All Stars and 2 Players likely to be All-Defensive Team at some point, who in the league would have 5 of those?

Then our players 5-8 are above average too.

Our timeouts / challenges are our biggest weakness and that's about 20th in terms of all basketball things to get right.
Jdiddy701
General Manager
Posts: 7,744
And1: 4,186
Joined: Jun 05, 2006

Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#75 » by Jdiddy701 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:58 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:I think we're undersold.

2 All Stars and 2 Players likely to be All-Defensive Team at some point, who in the league would have 5 of those?

Then our players 5-8 are above average too.

Our timeouts / challenges are our biggest weakness and that's about 20th in terms of all basketball things to get right.

I think Monty Williams is our most underrated part of our team. He gets the best out of players. I wouldn’t change any coach in league over him. Player want to play with Monty and will do whatever he asks of them. How he’s managed to keep the group tight after all the Sarver news is crazy. Monty is amazing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BobbieL
General Manager
Posts: 9,457
And1: 4,065
Joined: Jun 24, 2009

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#76 » by BobbieL » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:13 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Barkley6 wrote:
sundevil1999 wrote:Read this on Dallas Forum (Absinthe). I wonder how much of the league fanbase feels the same way.

"I do not understand the Suns. I didn’t last year and I don’t this year. If you look at their roster make up they have have no business having the record they do. They run essentially a seven to eight man rotation and I would classify two of those players as great and the others as middling to good. I tip my hat to them because what they have works, but it seems like it shouldn’t. The Mavs were shooting above 50% at one point from three point range and the Suns still might win. It defies logic. In most games they’d be down by 20 points."


The Mavs shot 41% from 2 and 50% from 3. so while the 3 point numbers are good, it seems like the game plan was to let them live with the jump shot and keep them out of the paint. Which worked.

I think a lot of credit goes to Monty Williams because yes, on paper this team doesn't look like it should be as good as it is. Coaching, chemistry and culture are what makes this team great and that goes to Monty. He's not always perfect, but he gets it right A LOT of the time.
It's because people look at teams from a fantasy basketball perspective but fit and having the right balance of role players is more important than people realize. Hell I see that with suns fans and some of the trade ideas that get thrown around. Just because a guy averages more points than a current suns rotation guy it doesn't mean the team would actually be better if you swapped the players.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app



The Suns have a good mix of All Stars, maybe not near all star but a couple VERY GOOD ascending players and finally, good role players. And thats what makes a good team
CP3 and Booker - All Stars
Ayton and Bridges - are the ascending players
the rest are role players

Look at The Wizards - they had Beal - very good player, All star
added Dinwiddie and than traded one player for three role players. But by trading Westbrook, able to add depth to their roster in Harrell, KCP and Kuzma
WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 17,927
And1: 13,252
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#77 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:38 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:I think we're undersold.

2 All Stars and 2 Players likely to be All-Defensive Team at some point, who in the league would have 5 of those?

Then our players 5-8 are above average too.

Our timeouts / challenges are our biggest weakness and that's about 20th in terms of all basketball things to get right.

I think Monty Williams is our most underrated part of our team. He gets the best out of players. I wouldn’t change any coach in league over him. Player want to play with Monty and will do whatever he asks of them. How he’s managed to keep the group tight after all the Sarver news is crazy. Monty is amazing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Absolutely. I'd add that Jones deserves some credit for putting the right guys with Monty. I don't think Monty's Ted Lasso crossed with a Baptist Minister style works with everyone. Some would find him corny and tune it out but you get the right guys for him and they'll run through a wall.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
sunsbg
Veteran
Posts: 2,558
And1: 1,805
Joined: Feb 29, 2016

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#78 » by sunsbg » Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:30 pm

Suns have two of the best players in the league (Booker's numbers actually look better than Doncic's so far this season), two of the most efficient role players, deep bench and a chemistry. What's not to like.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 26,558
And1: 14,879
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#79 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:15 pm

Our role players get undersold. Outside of Book and CP3, the other guys basically get no love from anyone outside of the Suns media sphere. Occasionally you'll get a Zach Lowe showing love for Bridges and Ayton but you'll be hard pressed to find anyone outside of the Suns media talk about Cam x2, McGee, Shamet or Payton who held it down when Payne was out. These guys are solid, high IQ and skilled basketball players. They aren't the most athletic, they aren't the best shooters and they aren't the best playmakers but they play smart, they play with effort and they make winning plays in the minutes they get.

Then where we have really played well is in the last 5min of games. In the last 5min of the game and when teams are within a 5 point differential we are:

#4 in offensive rating: 139.2 per100
Tied #3 in defensive rating: 78.3 per100
#4 in net rating: 61.0 per100
#2 in AST%: 79.2
#2 in AST/TO: 9.50 (1st is Clippers at 10.0. 3rd is a distant 5.50)
#1 in assist ratio: 25.7
#2 in turnover ratio: 3.9%
#2 in EFG%: 73%
#2 in opponent EFG%: 35.4%
#3 in TS%: 74%
#1 in FTA rate: 0.676
#2 in Win% in the clutch: 6-1 // 86%
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 26,558
And1: 14,879
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: Game 14: Phoenix Suns (10-3) @ Dallas Mavericks (9-4) l Wednesday l 10:00pm 

Post#80 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:25 pm

sundevil1999 wrote:Read this on Dallas Forum (Absinthe). I wonder how much of the league fanbase feels the same way.

"I do not understand the Suns. I didn’t last year and I don’t this year. If you look at their roster make up they have have no business having the record they do. They run essentially a seven to eight man rotation and I would classify two of those players as great and the others as middling to good. I tip my hat to them because what they have works, but it seems like it shouldn’t. The Mavs were shooting above 50% at one point from three point range and the Suns still might win. It defies logic. In most games they’d be down by 20 points."

We're a good enough team to stay close but where we have done well so far this season is 4th quarter/late game execution.

We won because we dropped 37 on them in the 4th when we were playing pretty pedestrian all game. We were down 5 to start the 4th and we got a CamJo 3 (Shamet assist) in the opening possession to cut it to 2, putting us in a great position. And it wasn't Booker/CP3 going off, it was a great team scoring effort. We ended up with 5pts a piece from Crowder/Book, 6pts a piece from CamJo/CP3, 7pts from Bridges and 8pts from Ayton. On top of that, we executed well: 14-20 from the field, 5-8 from the 3, 8rbs, 11ast and just 1 turnover.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though

Return to Phoenix Suns